Saheeh hadeeth are wahy?

[Ümit]

Selamün aleyküm brothers and sisters,

I stumbled upon this question lately, and I'm struggling to find a satisfying answer to this.
I always thought that the Quraan is wahy (divine revelation) and the hadeeth can be hasaan (good) at best but it is not wahy (a divine revelation).

The difference, at least what I thought that the difference is:
that the Quraan comes from Allah (cc) and dictated by Muhammad (sas) so it is perfect to the last letter.
Hadeeth are just recordings from ordinairy humans of the prophet (sas) and cannot be perfect to the letter.
Besides especially the saheeh hadeeths have multiple recordings with slight variations because they come from different chains.
This last fact makes hadeeth more reliable because multiple people record the same event which makes it more evident that it is true.
but it also means that it is not perfect to the last letter
conclusion: hadeeth cannot be wahy.

So, my viewpoint on this was pretty clear and logical. And I thought all sunni's (or at least all of the four madhabs) share this opinion and viewpoint.
now I'm hearing that some scholars, especially from the shafi corner who say that saheeh hadeeth are wahy? This confused me.
can someone please elaborate on that? The only thing I found is that once, Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi'i declared that saheeh hadeeth were considered wahy to avoid some juridical dilemma. or something like that. Is it nowadays still the case? and with what reasoning?

My intention is not to confront any shafi brothers or sisters...or any brother or sister who have this opinion...I just want to learn. Please help me find an answer to this.

Aleyküm selam

 

[AabiruSabeel]

The Qur'an is wahy in literal sense, as in every letter is exactly how it was revealed to the Prophet , since it is the speech of Allah .
The Hadith is also revealed but spoken by the Prophet in his own words, because Allah says:

مَا ضَلَّ صَاحِبُكُمْ وَمَا غَوَىٰ
وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَىٰ
إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا وَحْيٌ يُوحَىٰ
عَلَّمَهُ شَدِيدُ الْقُوَىٰ
Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred,
Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
It is not but a revelation revealed,
Taught to him by one intense in strength - [Surah An-Najm: 2-5]

 

[Ümit]

Thank you for your answer brother,

but I think I dont quite find this answer satisfying.

The Prophet (sas) did not record any hadeeth as far as I know. So it cannot be his words.
The hadeeth are recorded by the companions and in their own words. Pretty obvious, because as I mentioned before, the same hadith can be recorded from different chains of narrations from different companions and can have a slight variation in the wordings.
Enough proof to say that the hadeeth are in the words of the companions and not in the words of Muhammed (sas).

my opinion: calling this wahy is the same mistake that christians made by declaring various writings as their Bible.
It's a slippery slope.
Surely Muhammad ibn Idris al-Shafi'i realized this too, but he still declared it wahy...so what am I missing?

I'm sorry brother, I am not trying to be rebellious...just asking to understand.

Aleyküm selam

 

[AabiruSabeel]

If you are talking about the actions of the Prophet that are recorded by the Sahabah , then yes, they are sayings of the Sahabah. But again, since the Prophet was always guided by Allah , all his actions are directly based on Wahy.
If you are talking about the sayings of the Prophet , then there is very little difference in how the Qur'an was recorded and the Hadith was recorded.
The Sahabah transmitted his sayings verbatim, as they transmitted the Qur'an, but the only difference is, the Qur'an was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet while the Hadith was written down later. Earlier the Prophet stopped the Sahabah from writing down the Hadith to prevent it from being mixed with the Qur'an. After he passed away, there was no such danger left and the Sahabah transmitted the Hadith by narrating to the future generations.
So once again, the Sahabah were very particular about narrating the exact words and actions of the Prophet, as we know from several Ahadith where they acted in the same way the Prophet acted while saying a Hadith.

Some of Ahadith have minor differences in wording in different chains. This could be due to many reasons. The Prophet might have said those words multiple times in different sittings with different Sahabah. Of course, we don't say that the Hadith is also direct wahy similar to the Qur'an. But Hadith are based on wahy from Allah , since the Prophet was taught by Allah to say what he said and to do what he did. In short, Hadith are an indirect form of wahy.

Also, consider the case of Hadith Qudsi, in which the Prophet relates what Allah says, but in his own words. So it is different from Qur'an but holds a higher status than other Ahadith.

 

[Ümit]

OK, I'm starting to understand now.
If I may summarize it in my own words, you are saying (please correct me if I'm wrong):

Just like the ayahs who were dictated to the sahabah, and they went on to memorize it and write it down, the same method was used with the hadeeth.
The difference is, that the ayahs come from Allah, and the hadeeth come from Muhammed (sas)...
However, since Muhammed (sas) is in direct control of Allah, and would not do or say things of his own desire, this means it is therefore considered wahy.

The speech of Muhammed (sas) can be transferred letter for letter on paper, so there can be little to no differences between the sahabas, but the recordings of the actions of Muhammed (sas) is dependent on different factors like which sahabah recorded it, his/her observation skills, how far was the observer at that point, etc.

Thank you very much for your answer.

 

[Marwan-Maroc]

Peace and blessings of God be upon Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, there is no god but God, God is the Greatest, all praise is due to God, all thanks is due to God, all glory belongs to God, all honour belongs to God, there is no protector nor helper except God, there is no power nor strength except for God, may God save us from the Hellfire, may God grant us Paradise, may God Forgive us for our sins, may God show Mercy on us, may God guide us to the Straight and True Path (Islam), God is the King and Lord and Ruler and God and Protector and Light and Creator of the heavens and the earth and all things in them!
—————
The Quran is from God from first letter to the last, leaving not a single word and sentence.

Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, was guided by God, God was with him as He was with Mosa, peace be upon him, also in their war against the infidels God was with them and helped them.

Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessing of God be upon him, was in direct communication and consciousness and contact and relationship with God.

Thus, the sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, are inspired by God and are true.

God is the Most Great.

 

[Ümit]

Peace and blessings of God be upon Muhammad and the family of Muhammad, there is no god but God, God is the Greatest, all praise is due to God, all thanks is due to God, all glory belongs to God, all honour belongs to God, there is no protector nor helper except God, there is no power nor strength except for God, may God save us from the Hellfire, may God grant us Paradise, may God Forgive us for our sins, may God show Mercy on us, may God guide us to the Straight and True Path (Islam), God is the King and Lord and Ruler and God and Protector and Light and Creator of the heavens and the earth and all things in them!
—————

Agreed

The Quran is from God from first letter to the last, leaving not a single word and sentence.

agreed

Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, was guided by God, God was with him as He was with Mosa, peace be upon him, also in their war against the infidels God was with them and helped them.

I hope you do not mean this physically. As God present at that location, because that doesn't befit God. Everything else, I agree.

Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessing of God be upon him, was in direct communication and consciousness and contact and relationship with God.

agreed

Thus, the sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, are inspired by God and are true.

wait...you are balancing between truth and shirk right now. Muhammad (sas) would not say anything of his own desire, that is true.
The fact that he dictated some satanic verses prove that not everything he said was inspired by God. Yes, his sayings are corrected later on, and his acts got rectified (like in the hadeeth where he frowned towards a blind man). These events only prove that Muhammad (sas) was just human just like us, with his human sayings, and acts or even thoughts, but we only consider the recordings of his sayings and acts as divine or wahy because it eventually got corrected.

God is the Most Great.

agreed

 

[Marwan-Maroc]

Agreed

agreed

I hope you do not mean this physically. As God present at that location, because that doesn't befit God. Everything else, I agree.

agreed

wait...you are balancing between truth and shirk right now. Muhammad (sas) would not say anything of his own desire, that is true.
The fact that he dictated some satanic verses prove that not everything he said was inspired by God. Yes, his sayings are corrected later on, and his acts got rectified (like in the hadeeth where he frowned towards a blind man). These events only prove that Muhammad (sas) was just human just like us, with his human sayings, and acts or even thoughts, but we only consider the recordings of his sayings and acts as divine or wahy because it eventually got corrected.

agreed

God is the Most Great, there is no god but God.

No, God was not physically with them. But God was with them. God could cause terror in the infidels (Quran) so they easily got killed or they fled, and God could send over them angels (Quran), and God could send over them birds throwing at them big rocks (Quran), and there are other ways God did help.

No satanic verses were dictated by Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, this claim is false and never happened.

Be careful what you say.

God is the Greatest.

 

[Ümit]

God is the Most Great, there is no god but God.

No, God was not physically with them. But God was with them. God could cause terror in the infidels (Quran) so they easily got killed or they fled, and God could send over them angels (Quran), and God could send over them birds throwing at them big rocks (Quran), and there are other ways God did help.

No satanic verses were dictated by Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God be upon him, this claim is false and never happened.

I thought this was an authentic hadeeth, but it seems like a facrication indeed. You are right. Thanks for pointing that out.
However the event with a blind man (I now also checked) are ayahs 1- 10 from Surah Abasa, which still validates my point that Muhammad (sas) was just human just like us, with his human sayings, and acts or even thoughts, but we only consider the recordings of his sayings and acts as divine or wahy because it eventually got corrected.

Be careful what you say.

God is the Greatest.

 

[Marwan-Maroc]

I thought this was an authentic hadeeth, but it seems like a facrication indeed. You are right. Thanks for pointing that out.
However the event with a blind man (I now also checked) are ayahs 1- 10 from Surah Abasa, which still validates my point that Muhammad (sas) was just human just like us, with his human sayings, and acts or even thoughts, but we only consider the recordings of his sayings and acts as divine or wahy because it eventually got corrected.

I agree, this shows the humanity of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him), and it shows God’s Wisdom and Mercy towards Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) in Guiding him in real life situations, but it does not change the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) nor the fact that nothing of the revelation given to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) were changed or fabricated or came from any thing other than God, and the Quran was protected from that, every single letter and word of the Quran is from God.

God is the Most Great, by God we shall get resurrected, to Him we shall return, by Him we shall get Judged.