Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

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Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

primitivefuture said:
Globalisation makes it impossible for Muslims to to isolate from the West.

And considering the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US, I find your idea quite unrealistic.
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this is somewhat true, i mean my dad saw that in baghdad as crazy and war torn as it is, started to have more and more western influence everyday, fast food and even bars yes bars. Globalisation or shall i say colonialism ruins just about everything.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

primitivefuture said:
Globalisation makes it impossible for Muslims to to isolate from the West.

And considering the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US, I find your idea quite unrealistic.
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I'm referring to Muslims who live in Western societies but hate the western society in which they live. It is not impossible for a group of people to live in isolation in order to keep their religious beliefs unchanged, the Amish are a good example.

As far as Islam being the fastest growing religion in the US, do you have any unbiased stats for this claim? I hear this claim a lot but can't locate any reliable sources. Thanks.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
this is somewhat true, i mean my dad saw that in baghdad as crazy and war torn as it is, started to have more and more western influence everyday, fast food and even bars yes bars. Globalisation or shall i say colonialism ruins just about everything.
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The question at hand is about isolation. The Amish manage to keep themselves isolated and virtually unchanged by isolation. The concept is plausible.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

The amish are a very small group, there was a group of them that lived seperate that was not that far from a college i attended upstate new york.

there are way more muslims in the united states and also the amish have been here for i dont even know how long, but early in american civilization. How and where do you suppose muslims could claim land in the united states or antother western society as their own and live seperate? It is somewhat unrealistic now that i think about it.

I actually have a book that has to do with minority groups in america from a sociology class i took, let me look up when the amish came and how many are actually here. Give me a minute
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

searchingsoul said:
As far as Islam being the fastest growing religion in the US, do you have any unbiased stats for this claim? I hear this claim a lot but can't locate any reliable sources. Thanks.
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US News: http://www.jannah.org/articles/usnews.html
US Government site: http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/homepage.htm
Columbia University Press: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup/catalog/data/023110/0231109660.HTM
Infoplease: http://www.infoplease.com/spot/muslims1.html
United Religions Initiative: http://www.uri.org/Islam_in_North_America.html
MEMRI: http://www.memri.org/bin/media.cgi?ID=170706
PBS Education: http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/faithtoday.html

I can provide hundreds of more links;--- to be honest.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
The amish are a very small group, there was a group of them that lived seperate that was not that far from a college i attended upstate new york.

there are way more muslims in the united states and also the amish have been here for i dont even know how long, but early in american civilization. How and where do you suppose muslims could claim land in the united states or antother western society as their own and live seperate? It is somewhat unrealistic now that i think about it.

I actually have a book that has to do with minority groups in america from a sociology class i took, let me look up when the amish came and how many are actually here. Give me a minute
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Why do you think that the population of the faith would matter?

I'm not suggesting that all the Muslims be rounded up and sent to their own lot of land. This isn't the case with the Amish. They simply purchase land (like any other person would), there relatives often purchase nearby land, and they create their own little communities within already designated counties and states. They live in their little communities (wherever that may be) with people who hold their own beliefs. They do isolate themselves from the non-Amish by creating taking education, healthcare, and employment into their own hands. They interact very little with non-Amish people. They co-exist peacefully with other members of Western society, even though their beliefs differ greatly.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

ok i found it easier to look it up online then to fumble through a big old book:giggling:

this is from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some Amish began to migrate to the United States in the 18th century. Many would eventually settle in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania; the first immigrants actually went to Berks County, but later moved, motivated partly by security issues, tied to the French and Indian War, and land issues. Other groups settled in or spread to Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New York, Ohio, Maryland, Tennesee, Wisconsin, Maine, and Canada.

Most Amish communities that were established in North America did not ultimately retain their Amish identity. In fact, many more of the early communities eventually lost their Amish identity and gradually took on a Mennonite identity. The original major split that would result in the loss of identity occurred in the 1860s. During that decade Dienerversammlungen (ministerial conferences) were held in Wayne County, Ohio, concerning how the Amish should deal with the pressures of modern society. The meetings themselves were a progressive idea; that bishops should get together to discuss uniformity was an unprecedented notion in the Amish church. By the first several meetings, the conservative bishops agreed to boycott the Dienerversammlungen. Thus, the more progressive Amish within several decades became Amish-Mennonite, and were then later absorbed into the "Old" Mennonites (not to be confused with Old Order Mennonites). The much smaller faction became the Amish of today.

and i just opened my book:giggling: , it is estimated from what is known anyway that between the united states and canada there is 100,000 of them.

so they have been here for centuries and are a very small population living in certain areas to make a long story short

now do you see how this would be difficult for muslims in the west, also take into consideration that the majority of muslims here are converts, noone knows exactly how many live here. This is a difficult comparison.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
now do you see how this would be difficult for muslims in the west, also take into consideration that the majority of muslims here are converts, noone knows exactly how many live here. This is a difficult comparison.
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No I do not see why this is a difficult comparison. I don't see why the numbers would matter.

I have a feeling that the number of Muslims who reside in the West who truly want to abandon Western society (yet live within it) is low.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

I am simply saying that they cannot be compared to the amish, for many of reasons including yes the population differences which would make it difficult to "live seperate", also there are plenty who do live seperate in the sense that they go about their traditional muslim ways even thought they live here, i know of some. I mean come to nyc and you will see a halal shop in just about every neighborhood, mosques all over and the list can go on. So in general the ones who want to live true to their faith despite the majority of society here do and get by fine . I dont see exactly what you mean.

now im confused:rollseyes :confused:
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

searchingsoul said:
Why do you think that the population of the faith would matter?
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Because, in American demcracy, political power comes with population size.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

yes and no, because i know muslims from both sides of the tracks, muslims who do hate what goes on in the west and are very traditional and other who like it a bit too much and engage in unlawful acitivites.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
yes and no, because i know muslims from both sides of the tracks, muslims who do hate what goes on in the west and are very traditional and other who like it a bit too much and engage in unlawful acitivites.
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I was very "un-Islamic" in my high school years....have matured quite a bit since then.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
yes and no, because i know muslims from both sides of the tracks, muslims who do hate what goes on in the west and are very traditional and other who like it a bit too much and engage in unlawful acitivites.
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My point exactly. The number of Muslims who actually adhere to Islam in the USA (or other western countries) would probably be low. I'm not judging Muslims because this is also true of Christians. I've never been able to find good stats on the number of Western Muslims who actually abide by Islamic rule. I think we would be referring to a low number of people. I would also think that most of the negative activity which is used to adversly stereotype Muslims (in terms of unwillingness to accept the current Western society) comes from this same population.
 
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Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?
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I don't see why they should need to choose islolation, if your faith is strong enough you can live through anything.
Many Christians disagree with this modern western way of life as well.

Jesus tells us...there needs to be light in this world...if we all decided to run away and hide, people would remain always in darkness they would receive no light at all...this is why we are told we must live among the modern world.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

searchingsoul said:
I was debating PrimitiveFuture in another thread and felt that it would be best to start a new thread instead of going off topic. I'm not saying that I agree with further isolation, but it is worth debating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Yes, I know. My point is that Muslims do not want to part of a society that is so sinful its disgusting.


I've thought about this. I sympathize with those who feel their lives are negatively affected by the majority of people in western societies. In the USA we have the Amish population which have the same dislike for western society. They isolate themselves within their own communities. They home school their kids, or have their own schools, they live peacefully with little interaction among the rest of society. Could this be a possible solution for Muslims in Western society?
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peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,

issolating ourselves totally would be about the least islamic thing to do, we need to help the west, not let it go to destruction arround us.

there is a story in islam i would wish to share with you,
Allah (swt) being angry with the sins of a town sends angels to destroy it,
but the angels come back to Allah and tell him of a house where a man who is constant in prayer and worship,
Allah asks the angels does he forbid that bad things that's going off arround him?
the angels answer no, so Allah tells them to start the destruction with that house.

you see in islam it is not enough we keep the good things to ourselves, we have a duty to pass on the message to others. i am english, i can see a lot worth salvaging in western culture but the rest of it must go and God willing we will help turn this country into an islamic country before too long.

peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Daw'ud
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Nicola said:
I don't see why they should need to choose islolation, if your faith is strong enough you can live through anything.
Many Christians disagree with this modern western way of life as well.

Jesus tells us...there needs to be light in this world...if we all decided to run away and hide, people would remain always in darkness they would receive no light at all...this is why we are told we must live among the modern world.
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Many people both Muslims and Christians do choose to live peacefully within a society that they deem unfit. There are those people who refuse to accept the society that they live within and choose to live unpeacefully (rioting, bombing abortion clinics, etc...). What do you suggest to those who choose to live unpeacefully?
 

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