G.I.s Killed

[Trumble]

The Shia death squads torture Sunnis because Sunnis fight for their country (by any means possible because they're really out-gunned). The Sunnis behead the Shia for bringing in the U.S. and the U.S. acts like it's shocked by what it sees here? It caused all this in the first place!

Hardly. There was a long 'history' between the two long before the Americans became involved. But its so much easier just to blame them, isn't it?

Compassion doesn't work

And killing does?

.. and for those who thought Zarqawi was bad... boy are you about to learn a nasty lesson!

Considering that most of those learning the "nasty lesson" will be probably be Iraqi non-combatants I'm surprised at your apparent enthusiasm. al-Muhajer has even less business in Iraq than the Americans, his purpose is only to sow death and chaos. May his career be short.

 

[Muezzin]

salam
heh we been through this, is Ghandi the new prophet whose words supercede the Quran?

Did I say that? An eye for an eye where it's justified is what I take from those words, not just tit-for-tat, no matter what your enemy is doing. For example if your enemy kills children, so you kill children in return, are you any better than your enemy?

 

[mbaig]

Aren't Muslims supposed to treat their prisoners of war with respect?

Or are those that captured these American soldiers not Muslims?

Aren't American's supposed to treat their prisoners of war with respect?

Or are those that captured these innocent iraq's human?

 

[KAding]

Aren't American's supposed to treat their prisoners of war with respect?

Well yes they should. And those that mistreat prisoners should be punished.

 

[root]

Aren't American's supposed to treat their prisoners of war with respect?

As a former soldier I have to say that their is an "unwritten" law in regards to POW's. Here it is,

If you come accross militia, expect no quarter and give no quarter

I mean those US soldiers were prity dumb, but I can't condone them for thinking they may actually survive the ordeal. Hindsight suggests they would have been better holding the ground they stood on and fighting.......... Afterall, to a certain extent that is what they are their to do.

I also beleive that more attempts will be made to abduct military personell & that the troops in Iraq will have discussed this with their budies. This is a good thing because many studies have been made that show an ultra quick response time is given in a situation where you have already "programmed your brain" how you will respond to a given situation. (survival chances, are increased by determining what you will do prior to an event occuring), you programme your brain simply by "thinking" a response when an event happens that you have already "thought" that thought is actioned immediately as opposed to thinking about it at the time, which is a little late.

I hope next time, the soldiers involved make an "unpredicted" move such as pulling and arming a grenade!!!! You better beleive the abducters will "think" what to do next buying a valuable second or two.

Those one or two seconds would give you a fighting chance in the world of chaos and if all else fails you blow up and hopefully take some of them with you, personally, I would rarther show some balls that I had no fear and could also be a suicide bomber than be tortured to death.......

Just a personal opinion

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,


For me it boils down to this..

Is it Islamic to torture?
No
Is it Islmaic to murder wihout reason?
No
Is it Islamic for revenge?
Yes

In times of the Prophet how were prisoners treated?
Humanely and civilly...

This is just like that time,here you have evil poeple coming to Iraq,torturing,murder and rape Iraqis left and right..
And the Iraqis are angry...
And thier passion is fevered..

Is it their right for revenge?
YES..
Should they treat their prisoners as they are treated?
No..

Should they will this Jihad in spite of Islmaic laws?
NO..

For by winning this war,they lose the laws of Islam.For they thus become that which they hate.

But it is human to react in the face of such situation.
Fight for Allah,fight for Justice....but do not abandon Islamic laws...

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Hardly. There was a long 'history' between the two long before the Americans became involved. But its so much easier just to blame them, isn't it?

I accuse President Bush of exploiting the known division - but in Rue's thread, I did say the people responsible for that division in the first place were directly to blame... they created the circumstances that could be exploited. I think I actually boiled it down to: Do you know the phrase Divide and Conquer?

I didn't let anyone off the hook. I'm aware of the history... still sorting this mess out.

Considering that most of those learning the "nasty lesson" will be probably be Iraqi non-combatants I'm surprised at your apparent enthusiasm. al-Muhajer has even less business in Iraq than the Americans, his purpose is only to sow death and chaos. May his career be short.

I'm NOT enthusiastic, but much like the "Criticise the US-led coalition and you will be imprisoned" thread, I'll just say the out-come was that predictable. It's all a matter of pouring gas on the open flame. This no-win situation is getting worse by the minute... and no, I don't buy the idea that the general public are inclined to believe that the WAR is so one-sided: We're the good guys taking on these medieval monsters. The truth is that maybe if we didn't invade the country in the first place, we wouldn't have pushed the limits to where they are now. Or do you plan on trying to convince me that things were this bad BEFORE we invaded?

Ninth Scribe

 

[Syed Nizam]

So if the U.S., say, flies a helicopter over Ramadi and pushes out a few Gitmo guys to splat all over town, that would be cool because they knew what they were in for when they took up arms ? That would be a pretty strong message. :thankyou:

Actually, the US have actually have done much worse than that.... remember Vietnam? remember Mai Lai massacre? Now we've got Iraq... and the Haditha massacre! That's only the tip of an iceberg of atrocities committed by american GI's in any war.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

Is it Islamic to.......

Never mind what is and isn't Islamic for a moment - let's focus on what is and isn't Human.

I get the fact that we have to kill to live (physically) and I suspect that part of Nature created the condition in which we feel the need to kill to live (emotionally, mentally and spiritually). But that's just my pet peeve.

The situation is that the human condition shares four faculties: Physical need, emotional desire, intellectual expression and spiritual awareness. Of these four, only two are present at the point we've reached in Iraq. Those are emotional desire and spiritual awareness. Physical needs and intellectual expressions are cut off from the picture.

Trying to find a better way to explain this. Hmmm. That's a tough one. Try this. If you take a flash light and shine it through four doorways, the light passes through them all so you have a better view of what's on the other side (security). If you close two of those doorways and try to shine your light, it won't shine through them... and you won't be able to see what's on the other side (insecurity). Allah's light is like this. You can't get hung up on one level to the point where it becomes more important than the others, because the uncertainty is that undesirable.

Until someone figures out how to open those doorways and line up their light... no one can actually see where their going. So these people do things that they normally wouldn't do. The leaders as well! I heard the king of Jordan placed his own pride above the law and refused Zaqawi's family a burial, saying he didn't want Zarqawi to stain Jordanian soil! Has that dude any real idea of what's been buried in Jordanian soil? It's a bit too late for him to care about what his dirt is made from... and this didn't hurt Abu Musab at all. I could go on... I've kept quite a record of the actions and reactions that have reverberated from this whole ordeal. At this stage, no one is in a position to say they're 'better-than' the others. It just goes round in circles, like a fight between children over a sandbox: Well I only did this because he did that... and... and.... and!

Ninth Scribe

 

[KAding]

Actually, the US have actually have done much worse than that.... remember Vietnam? remember Mai Lai massacre? Now we've got Iraq... and the Haditha massacre! That's only the tip of an iceberg of atrocities committed by american GI's in any war.

It definately the tip of the iceberg of atrocities in Iraq. On a daily basis markets, recruitment centers, funerals, and even mosques are being attacekd by car bombs and suicide attacks.

Nobody seems to care much about those attrocities though. The Western media only mentions them quickly in the news and the Muslims are too focussed on Americans to notice I suppose.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

It definately the tip of the iceberg of atrocities in Iraq. On a daily basis markets, recruitment centers, funerals, and even mosques are being attacekd by car bombs and suicide attacks.

Actions beget Reactions... don't recall car bombs being much of a problem before this all began, so my Judgement stands firm... we're NOT helping!

Ninth Scribe

 

[Zulkiflim]

Never mind what is and isn't Islamic for a moment - let's focus on what is and isn't Human.

I get the fact that we have to kill to live (physically) and I suspect that part of Nature created the condition in which we feel the need to kill to live (emotionally, mentally and spiritually). But that's just my pet peeve.

The situation is that the human condition shares four faculties: Physical need, emotional desire, intellectual expression and spiritual awareness. Of these four, only two are present at the point we've reached in Iraq. Those are emotional desire and spiritual awareness. Physical needs and intellectual expressions are cut off from the picture.

Trying to find a better way to explain this. Hmmm. That's a tough one. Try this. If you take a flash light and shine it through four doorways, the light passes through them all so you have a better view of what's on the other side (security). If you close two of those doorways and try to shine your light, it won't shine through them... and you won't be able to see what's on the other side (insecurity). Allah's light is like this. You can't get hung up on one level to the point where it becomes more important than the others, because the uncertainty is that undesirable.

Until someone figures out how to open those doorways and line up their light... no one can actually see where their going. So these people do things that they normally wouldn't do. The leaders as well! I heard the king of Jordan placed his own pride above the law and refused Zaqawi's family a burial, saying he didn't want Zarqawi to stain Jordanian soil! Has that dude any real idea of what's been buried in Jordanian soil? It's a bit too late for him to care about what his dirt is made from... and this didn't hurt Abu Musab at all. I could go on... I've kept quite a record of the actions and reactions that have reverberated from this whole ordeal. At this stage, no one is in a position to say they're 'better-than' the others. It just goes round in circles, like a fight between children over a sandbox: Well I only did this because he did that... and... and.... and!

Ninth Scribe

Salaam,

Perhaps you do not undrstand what is Islam is for a muslim.

It is life simple as that.

As i say,win or lose,,,but do nto break the laws of Islam,,,,
Once you say you are a muslim then you are bound by the laws of Islam.

It is not like saying that i am a muslim but i do not fast on ramadhan nor do i pray 5 times a day.,..i merely do it in spirit,,,that is an innovation...an innovation in matter of religion is HARAM..

So that is why when we hear all this we always say it is UNISLAMIC...

Our feeling our need are unimportant,ISLAM is important.

Again i say,would you win despite losing your soul?

Or as many kafir say,would you sell your soul to the devil to win?

 

[Isaac]

well what did people expect to happen to them if they were caught? Inncoent iraqis are being killed and tortured by God knows who, so do you think that these troopers were going to get any better treatment? No. Well know how do you think the average iraqi feels everyday when he/she steps out in the street, fearing that they may be abducted, killed or tortured. See when it hits home then it hurts 100 times over. This happens to 10+ iraqis evryday. For most troopers they are hard targets, confined in their military compunds, green zones, armoured vehicles, and groups of batallions. So when they do catch a trooper its like a golden trophy. At the end of the day, the invading forces illegaly invaded iraq, killed innocent people, tortured inncoent people, bombed inncoent people, and loced up innocent people, were the root cause for sectarioan violence, so to the iraq you deserve it.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

As i say,win or lose,,,but do not break the laws of Islam,,,,

Understood, but there are extenuating circumstances at play here. This situation is not the normal day-to-day. I agree that some of the scholars have over-stepped the bounds in their interpretations, but you can't just hand over your lands every time someone else wants them either. I'm not overly concerned with the who did what at this point. That will get sorted out later on... after this world. But if I judge everyone here and now, without compassion... we'd ALL be in the soup! That's all I'm saying. I'm trying to get ahead of this fire, not so much worrying about what's already burned.

Ninth Scribe

 

[diverdown]

So from some of the posts in this thread it seems like pushing a few 'mujjies' out of a helo would be 'par for the course.' and a perfectly 'clean' act of war. What would the world say if the U.S. hacked a few Gitmo guys heads off and then sent them home ? Could you imagine Rumsfeld sawing some Gitmo dudes head off and then sending the tape to Al Jazeera ?!?! Holy Moly !! I, for one, would love to see that happen, if only for the reaction. There is a story from late '70's Beruit. A Russian diplomat was kidnapped and killed, so the Russians took a relative of the person they thought did the deed, cut his 'naughty bits' off, stuffed them down his throat, shot him in the head, and sent him home. No more kidnapped Russians. Good object lesson. Maybe the U.S. could learn a thing or two from this.




'It's raining men, Halleluia, It's raining men , Amen.'

 

[Isaac]

well why leave it upto rumsfield, why dont u do it?

 

[wilberhum]

Again:
When you use evil to fight evil, the outcome is guaranteed.
Evil will win.
This stupid tribal concept is sick. You condone:
If a member of Tribe A wrongs a member of Tribe B,
Then all members of Tribe B can do anything to any member of Tribe A.
Sick. No one is responsible for the actions of others.

 

[diverdown]

well why leave it upto rumsfield, why dont u do it?

The 'Rumsfeld effect' would be the 'kicker'. But in the meantime, bring me a 'mujjie'. :giggling:

 

[Isaac]

like i said it hurts alot more when its one of your own, but remember the average iraqi goes through this everyday. everyday an iraqi is killed, tortured, behaeded.

 

[diverdown]

like i said it hurts alot more when its one of your own, but remember the average iraqi goes through this everyday. everyday an iraqi is killed, tortured, behaeded.

I understand killing the G.I.s. It's war. But what is up with the beheading and mutilation thing ? They seem to love 'playing' with corpses. These guys do it to the U.S. and thier own.