Was Islam spread by SWORD?

[ISDhillon]

Nice manners bro, i see you've improved on your skills in speaking to other people ;D

how comes youve changed your name i think i will change mine too

 

[kadafi]

That is not true either. Islam certainly arrived peacefully through merchants, as it did in India, but once those merchants converted rulers or set up their own states, they waged war on the Buddhists and destroyed them all. If not for the Europeans they would have destroyed Bali too.

Are we rambling pseudo history again. The aim of some of these rulers was purely military and had no religious zeal.

As Arnold Thomas states:

The history of proselytising movements and the social influences that brought about their attention, and most of the commonly accessible histories of the Muhammadans in Indian, whether written by Europeans or by native authors, are mere chronicles of wars, campaigns and the achievements of princes, in which little mention of the religious life of the time finds a place, unless it has taken the form of fanaticism or intolerance.
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Which is also endorsed by Sir Alfred C. Lyall:

The military adventurers, who founded dynasties in Northern India and carved out kingdoms in the Dekhan, care little for things spiritual; most of them had indeed no time for proselytism, being continually engaged in conquest or in civil war. They were usually rough Tartars or Moghals; themselves ill-grounded in the faith of Mahomet, and untouched by the true Semitic enthusiasm which inspired the first Arab standard bearers of Islam. The empire they set up was pure military, and it was kept in that state by the half success of their conquests and the comparative failure of their spiritual invasion. They were strong enough to prevent anything like religious amalgamation among the Hindus, and to check the gathering of tribes into nations; but so far were they from converting India, that among the Mahommedans themselves their own faith never acquired an entire and exclusive monopoly of the high offices of administration.

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So what makes you seem to attribute religious zeal to these rulers who were in fact absorbed in their lust for powers.

Arnold Thomas states:

That the conversion were in the main voluntary, may be judged from the toleration that the Muslims, after the first violence of their onslaught, showed towards their idolatrous subjects. The people of Brahmanabad, for example, whose city had been taken by storm, were allowed to repair their temple, which was a means of livelihood to the Brahmans, and nobody was to be forbidden or prevented from following his own religion, and generally, where submission was made, quarter was readily given, and the people were permitted the exercise of their own creeds and laws.

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The amount of myths surrounding these topic is astonishing as how people can utter such disinformation and yet pass it on as the truth.

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[AccountDisabled]

it does not matter whether the rulers were religiously minded or not the fact is that misguided rulers forced isalm onto the civilization, noone has suggested that islam is a misguided faith, the title of this thread is not about whether islam was spread by islam itself, but by the sword and it has been shown how it was.

 

[Crescent]

Good thing you're banned again.

 

[Mohsin]

Dhillon, try and understand bro, you can't force someone to convert. its impossible. If i were to come up to you with a gun and say if you don't convert to islam then i will kill you and rape your daughter/wife or something evil and horrible like that and then kill them, if i said that what will you do. Will you be courageous and be a "sher" and say kill me, i don't want to convert. In such an instance there is nothing wrong with anyone saying yes i will convert to islam. But do you honestly think these people will practice their beliefs at home in private when the gun is no longer around :?
if some sick minded individuals tryed to force their religion on someone, do you think that soemone will later realise "oh what a beautiful religion, I will now begin to practise it even though the guy is not around with the sword anymore"

 

[bint_muhammed]

Dhillon, try and understand bro, you can't force someone to convert. its impossible. If i were to come up to you with a gun and say if you don't convert to islam then i will kill you and rape your daughter/wife or something evil and horrible like that and then kill them, if i said that what will you do. Will you be courageous and be a "sher" and say kill me, i don't want to convert. In such an instance there is nothing wrong with anyone saying yes i will convert to islam. But do you honestly think these people will practice their beliefs at home in private when the gun is no longer around :?
if some sick minded individuals tryed to force their religion on someone, do you think that soemone will later realise "oh what a beautiful religion i will practise it even though the guy is not around with a sword anymore"

thats exactly what i've bin tryin to say! i gues you put it more clearly :brother:

 

[HeiGou]

Dhillon, try and understand bro, you can't force someone to convert. its impossible. If i were to come up to you with a gun and say if you don't convert to islam then i will kill you and rape your daughter/wife or something evil and horrible like that and then kill them, if i said that what will you do. Will you be courageous and be a "sher" and say kill me, i don't want to convert. In such an instance there is nothing wrong with anyone saying yes i will convert to islam. But do you honestly think these people will practice their beliefs at home in private when the gun is no longer around :?
if some sick minded individuals tryed to force their religion on someone, do you think that soemone will later realise "oh what a beautiful religion, I will now begin to practise it even though the guy is not around with the sword anymore"

They may practice their beliefs private at home when no one is around. But their children will go to an Islamic school. And if they practice their secret "true" religion in public they will be in trouble. Or even if their children see them practice their religion in the privacy of their own home they will be in trouble. Turkey does have a community of Muslims who are descended from forcibly converted Jews and they only marry each other. Or did. Over generations they will cease to be Whatever they were and become Whatever they are. Sicily has families that are descended from Jews as well as from Muslims. You can tell by things like the way they paint their doors. But tell them that and they might kill you. It happens and it does work.

No they might not say it was a beautiful religion, but their grandchildren might.

 

[Mohsin]

No even as a minority you are more likely to not convert to a new religion. not only wikll your parents repeatedly keep putting you off it and keep telling you how bad islam is and how venomous they are that they forced out graet great...granparents to convert, and so the child will actually hate islam. I'm quyite sure you've never been Pakistan. If you were to go just ask and Hindu child living in pakistan what he thinks of islam and he wuill tell you its evil. their parents wil do anything to stop them from converting, even more so if their forefathers were forced to convert, and to be honest i wouldn't blame them

Even still, you can use todays conversions without the sword in non-muslim countries to see why it is not impossible or unlikely for there to have been peaceful conversions

 

[chitownmuslim]

Peace
Yes you are right. The books tell us that Islam was spread by da'wah and by the sword

I agree with this brother. Islam was spread by both da'wa and the sword. This isnt something that Muslims are ashamed of, on the contrary we're proud to be 'Ummat al-Jihad'. There were lands where Islam spread by da'wah such as Indonesia & Malaysia, yet there were others where Islam spread by the sword such as the spread of Islam in Persian and Roman lands. Note that both these empires were known to violently kill the inhabitants of any country or kingdom which they felt was a threat to their rule. Also, both of these countries replied violently to the Prophets da'wah to Islam, even killing the messengers of the Prophet.

My point is that Muslims follow the Quran and Sunnah, anytime the Prophet (saws) declared Jihad, it was in response to something. There were leaders throughout Islamic history who were Jihadists and Imperialists also, who wanted to expand the territory of Islamic lands, although their intentions were good (to spread Islam), Imperialism isnt something that Islam calls for. My evidence is that the Prophet or Companions never thought of expanding into Egypt after the Moqawqis (leader of Coptic Egyptians) replied kindly to the Prophets da'wah and sent him gifts. They only considered this after the Egyptians themselves asked them to liberate Egypt from Byzantine rule.

Nevertheless, my answer to the question "was Islam spread by the sword?"....
Yes in some cases it was.

 

[sonz]

were not talking about conquest

were talking about forced conversions if i am right.

when non-muslims say "islam was spread by sword" they mean "muslims forced non-muslims to accept islam by use of the sword"

masalama

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

were not talking about conquest

were talking about forced conversions if i am right.

when non-muslims say "islam was spread by sword" they mean "muslims forced non-muslims to accept islam by use of the sword"

masalama

Exactly right. Some Muslims don't understand what is intended by the phrase 'spread by the sword' and so they think that nothing is wrong with it. This phrase means that it was not spread through reason, contemplation, compassion, and learning but through violent imposition of the laws upon others - a view that all Muslim scholars and writers reject as untrue.

 

[chitownmuslim]

were not talking about conquest

were talking about forced conversions if i am right.

when non-muslims say "islam was spread by sword" they mean "muslims forced non-muslims to accept islam by use of the sword"

masalama

Sorry, ur right, I misunderstood the topic...
And I definitely agree that Muslims never forced others to accept Islam..

 

[bint_muhammed]

Although would you agree that a fair number of Muslims managed to acquire a fair amount of wealth along the way?

maybe, but that wasnt their intensions or means!

 

[bint_muhammed]

They may practice their beliefs private at home when no one is around. But their children will go to an Islamic school. And if they practice their secret "true" religion in public they will be in trouble. Or even if their children see them practice their religion in the privacy of their own home they will be in trouble. Turkey does have a community of Muslims who are descended from forcibly converted Jews and they only marry each other. Or did. Over generations they will cease to be Whatever they were and become Whatever they are. Sicily has families that are descended from Jews as well as from Muslims. You can tell by things like the way they paint their doors. But tell them that and they might kill you. It happens and it does work.

No they might not say it was a beautiful religion, but their grandchildren might.

my niece went a christian school but she doesnt believe in christianity. she understands it and respects it and everything but doeant belive in it. she knows the difference even though every morning they sing christian songs and pray, she just doesnt do it or does out of respect! the reason is coz she gets tought islam at home.

 

[Asyur an-Nagi]

by Hei Gou:
By all means. The Muslims converted a few local leaders and then they forced, by means of war, Islam on the rest of the Malay world. Europeans actually turneed up in time to see the last of the Buddhist Javanese states destroyed and just in time to save Bali.


1.First: what do you mean by the muslims and a few local leaders? Islam was brought by merchants in peace ( i spent almost my whole life in Indonesia and no mouth doubt it)
2. Second: what d'ya mean by means of war (was it the same thing that potuguesan merchants inflicted with their cannons and ships?)
3. Third: what is buddhist javanese that u mean? (we still have plenty of them here)

Crusader did not kill millions of Muslims or Jews.

I say: If the criminals admit that they are guilty as charged, the prison would be so full.
__________________

 

[HeiGou]

The Muslims converted a few local leaders and then they forced, by means of war, Islam on the rest of the Malay world. Europeans actually turneed up in time to see the last of the Buddhist Javanese states destroyed and just in time to save Bali.

1.First: what do you mean by the muslims and a few local leaders? Islam was brought by merchants in peace ( i spent almost my whole life in Indonesia and no mouth doubt it)

I mean that the Indonesian-Malay region was very divided. Merchants came from India bringing Islam. Some of them settled and created mini-city states, some did well and intermarried with the local elite but only at the price of the locals converting. Gradually more leaders converted as it brought more trade from India and when they did they tended to enforce Islamic law on their countries and wage war on their neighbors.

2. Second: what d'ya mean by means of war (was it the same thing that potuguesan merchants inflicted with their cannons and ships?)

I mean war in the same sense as that waged by the Portuguese.

3. Third: what is buddhist javanese that u mean? (we still have plenty of them here)

Really? What is the Buddhist population of Java now? Java is over 90 percent Muslim and most of the non-Muslims, including Buddhists, are Chinese.

Crusaders did not kill millions of Muslims or Jews.

I say: If the criminals admit that they are guilty as charged, the prison would be so full.

True but that does not change that fact.

 

[HeiGou]

my niece went a christian school but she doesnt believe in christianity. she understands it and respects it and everything but doeant belive in it. she knows the difference even though every morning they sing christian songs and pray, she just doesnt do it or does out of respect! the reason is coz she gets tought islam at home.

Christian schools do not try to enforce Christianity. I assume she does not live in a Christian country where Christian laws are applied. Even if they were Christians have stopped executing people for apostacy. She is not a Christian and so wouldn't be executed for apostacy anyway. You see the differences here?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

We can debate it until the cows come home, what does it matter how it was spread the fact is, it has spread just as the other main religions have!

 

[Mohsin]

We can debate it until the cows come home, what does it matter how it was spread the fact is, it has spread just as the other main religions have!

Yeah good point bro, but the difference is people often can't take the fact islam is spreading so fast and is the fastest growing religion in the world, and resort to lieing saying it was spread by the sword

 

[Isaac]

good point brother. its wierd how the religion known as a religion based on terror and evil is the fastest growing religion in the world. Subhanallah, they plan but Allah is the best of planners. so that their claim thrown out the window. next time those who say its spread through terror ask a conver/revert muslim, why he or she came to islam - the truth rather then just makng and having assumptions based on propoganda. if you want to know the truth go to the source. and for this particular subject the source would be a revert muslim. and inshallah you will be provided with an asnwer so beautiful hat you to inshallah will come to the truth. have i used a sword in spreading islam right know?