Muslim leaders condemn terrorism

[HeiGou]

I think that this is a big step forward. However, can anyone spot what I think is wrong with this statement?

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5111092.stm

Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
Islamic leaders across Birmingham have issued a joint message against terrorism in a bid to tackle mistrust of Muslims in the UK.

Leaders of the 150 mosques in the city have backed the statement, which comes in response to the police raid in London's Forest Gate this month.

The religious edict makes clear the killing of innocent victims is against the principles of Islam.

It has been welcomed by the chief constable of the West Midlands.

The message is thought to be the first joint statement made by Muslim scholars in the UK against terrorism.

Activities regulated

It states: "That killing of innocent civilians is absolutely forbidden in Islam and anyone who contemplates or commits any such act, does so against the teachings of Islam."

The statement adds action has been taken to regulate the activities of every mosque to ensure worshippers are given a message of "calmness and civic responsibility".

It said the action of the UK Government in Iraq had caused anger in the Muslim community but there is a "resolve to guide the Muslim response in accordance with good citizenship".

Dr Muhammad Naseem, chairman of the Birmingham Central Mosque, said: "There is a perception that Muslims are a source of terrorism.

"Although individuals have made statements against terrorism people still say Muslims aren't denouncing terrorism."

'Positive announcement'

Terrorism is against the teachings of Islam, Dr Naseem explained, saying he was making the leaders' position clear.

"We hope this will improve the understanding between religious communities in the city," he added.

West Midlands chief constable Paul Scott-Lee said: "I am delighted by this positive announcement from our local mosques and fully support what is an important statement for all our communities."

It is planned that similar anti-violence messages from Muslim leaders across other UK cities will be issued as part of the initiative.

 

[Ghazi]

It's sad that they havn't addressed the issue why these people commit such actions until that's resolved I don't see the problem going away.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Better late than never i suppose!

When these atrocities occured i think they should have made the statments there and then, All other people would have understood then this is not Islam!

 

[HeiGou]

It's sad that they havn't addressed the issue why these people commit such actions until that's resolved I don't see the problem going away.

Isn't it interesting I am in total agreement with you. Not only haven't they addressed the issue of why these people commit such actions, they have not taken any steps to resolve that issue either.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Better late than never i suppose!

When these atrocities occured i think they should have made the statments there and then, All other people would have understood then this is not Islam!

I think you need to see Statements against Terror. Muslim scholars and leaders have been screaming themselves hoarse denouncing terrorism everytime one of these acts occur. It has always been 'there and then'. Take the 7/7 bombinbgs for example; CAIRCAN arranged for 120 Muslim Imams and Scholars from across the country to issue a joint statement of condemnation. It got hardly any media coverage.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

It's sad that they havn't addressed the issue why these people commit such actions until that's resolved I don't see the problem going away.

Yes, I agree with this. It would have been nice to have that Council I spoke of... since it offers the means to gain unified agreement on issues - spare the princes all going in different directions to achieve equally different ends... but we're stuck with that.

When I hear Muslim leaders condemn terrorism, I take into account what I call the 'drag' factor. In truth WAR is terrorism and there isn't a single army alive who isn't responsible for the blood of innocents. Nadda - Zip!

But the leaders are affected by the after-math. In their view, OBL dragged them all into this mess by attacking the World Trade Center, so they'll blame him for their current misery. But if I were to reduce his action to words, I would hear him say: "Listen... this is very important to me... and I will be heard and answered!"

That issue was Palestine, and he wasn't the only one on the planet to have a problem with the betrayal. Judging from my own research, he has a pretty solid case, but he either couldn't make it presentable (doubtful) or he had no place in which he could present it. So those leaders drove him over the edge and he found a new way to present that message - in a way it would be heard. The ones who complain now are just as much to blame for their misery... they turned a blind eye to what are so obviously very deep wounds. The people who were affected are still suffering, and to add insult to injury, they were completely abandoned by their neighbors for the sake of convenience. Who'd want to have to deal with the U.S.? Well, you're dealing with it now, aren't you!

Problems like that don't just go away. Killing the messengers won't make it all go away either. Injustice burns that badly and drives people to incredible lengths! What happened in Palestine was a serious Injustice - even by Jewish standards and especially by Jewish law... I have that half of the whole she-bang! What the King of Jordan is doing, by denying a burial, is a serious Injustice also. It doesn't harm Abu Musab... it harms his family and it bothers ME! For that, I justly pray that the king share his eternity with that which is buried in Jordanian soil that he believes is so pure it should not be 'stained'. The result of his decree? I've heard that certain Muslims and Kafirs alike, decided Abu Musab should not be granted a burial because he deprived others of the same. This was never proven, but regardless. The king, in his infinate wisdom, has just demonstrated that extenuating circumstances were able to drive Abu Musab in his actions, since the king himself is now equally driven to reach beyond the known laws. In doing so, he just endorsed the very nature he complains about.

Nice leadership, folks. Is it any wonder why we're in this mess now?

Ninth Scribe

 

[snakelegs]

this is probably a dumb question:
did OBL concern himself with palestine? i thought his main thing was to get the americans out of saudi?

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

When I hear Muslim leaders condemn terrorism, I take into account what I call the 'drag' factor. In truth WAR is terrorism and there isn't a single army alive who isn't responsible for the blood of innocents. Nadda - Zip!

Well said.
But I think the problem of terrorism is a complicated one, and it cannot be defeated by just one group of people.
America could start by...ummm.... pulling their soldiers out of every Muslim country that doesn't want them there. And also to stop meddling in everything. They've already labelled the islamic reformists in Somalia as supporters of Al Qaedia. How in the blooming heck did they come to that conclusion so fast? Beats me.
W'salaam

 

[Ghazi]

Well said.
But I think the problem of terrorism is a complicated one, and it cannot be defeated by just one group of people.
America could start by...ummm.... pulling their soldiers out of every Muslim country that doesn't want them there. And also to stop meddling in everything. They've already labelled the islamic reformists in Somalia as supporters of Al Qaedia. How in the blooming heck did they come to that conclusion so fast? Beats me.
W'salaam

It's a simple soulution most the ummah know why they do this, is beacuse they see a need for jihad but are corrupted by people with their own agendas if the scholars who are so quick to condem them actually taught these people the ins and outs of jihad then orginised the ummah to expel the enemy no more terrorist attacks or atleast the number or new recurts would go down.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

if the scholars who are so quick to condemn them actually taught these people the ins and outs of jihad then orginised the ummah to expel the enemy no more terrorist attacks or at least the number or new recurts would go down.

Exactly... loving your words, Islam Truth. It's not too late to turn this around.

Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

i thought his main thing was to get the americans out of saudi?

Well that's what happens when you start from the middle of the story.

Ninth Scribe

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

And also to stop meddling in everything. They've already labelled the islamic reformists in Somalia as supporters of Al Qaedia. How in the blooming heck did they come to that conclusion so fast? Beats me.
W'salaam

They do tend to meddle alot don't they? Bush is behaving like a little tin Hitler. The dude has no clue how to talk to people. You can't just go to someone's country, kick in the doors to their palace, with an entourage of media that places the whole event on public display, and start ordering people around. Some of his requests might have been honored if they were made privately and with dignity - but the leaders he put on the spot have no choice but to deny his requests because they were presented as demands - if those leaders give in to those demands after the disrespectful way in which they were presented, they would lose the respect of their own people. I had told him about this before... that his mouth would get him into trouble.

But what do I know?

Ninth Scribe

 

[snakelegs]

I think that this is a big step forward. However, can anyone spot what I think is wrong with this statement?

"There is a perception that Muslims are a source of terrorism.

perception?

 

[HeiGou]

But I think the problem of terrorism is a complicated one, and it cannot be defeated by just one group of people.

I agree. It is complicated and it needs co-operation and work by two communities: the mainstream community needs to go on tracking them down and putting them in jail, and their originating Faith and ethnic communities need to stop producing new ones.

America could start by...ummm.... pulling their soldiers out of every Muslim country that doesn't want them there.

Is there a single country in the world where that is the case? Where do the Americans have soldiers where they are not wanted? The Saudis wanted them out and so they are gone.

And also to stop meddling in everything. They've already labelled the islamic reformists in Somalia as supporters of Al Qaedia. How in the blooming heck did they come to that conclusion so fast? Beats me.

Where did they say that? It seems a reasonable assumption to me. Being a devout Muslim and being a supporter of al-Qaeda is not a coincidence. I am sure there are devout Muslims out there that are not supporters of al-Qaeda, but you can look at this site alone and see the two are closely related.

The Americans get the blame for everything. If they meddle or if they don't. If they intervene or not. Doesn't matter. There is no point even talking to the sort of people who have no rational basis for their objections to what the Americans do but just blindly oppose them on everything.

Having said that, I think that the Americans ought to get out of the Middle East and the Islamic world generally. And Muslims ought to be encouraged to leave non-Muslim countries. We cannot live together. Separation is the only viable option.

 

[afriend]

It's sad that they havn't addressed the issue why these people commit such actions until that's resolved I don't see the problem going away.

Yes...that's a good point.

 

[Pk_#2]

AsalmuAlaykum,

Terrorism is against the teachings of Islam, Dr Naseem explained

Damn right!, so why torture Muslims and humiliate em, just for being Muslims, jeez

Jazakhala for the post,

WalaykumSalaam.

 

[HeiGou]

Terrorism is against the teachings of Islam, Dr Naseem explained

Damn right!, so why torture Muslims and humiliate em, just for being Muslims, jeez

Muslim scholars can go on explaining that terrorism is against the teachings of Islam and it won't make any difference except in the long run. It may even make things worse. After all clearly some people think that terrorism is not against the teachings of Islam - the boys who blew themselves up in London for instance. There is a non-trivial group on the internet that thinks terrorism is not un-Islamic either although a larger group simply defines "terrorism" to mean the killing of any people they do not want killed. So if some types of Muslims do it they are less than rushed to denounce it. Finally these statements are not made to the sort of people who do this sort of thing or even to Muslims in general. They are directed at non-Muslims as can be seen by the Blair's government's Muslim Task Force whose only response to the 7-7 bombings was, basically, to encourage more people to convert to Islam. In the long run young male Muslims may get the message but in the meantime it looks from a kafir perspective as if Muslim scholars are not being entirely honest - that they are saying one thing to us and another to their own communities.

Finally, where is anyone torturing anyone just because they are Muslims? The West has gone out of their way to make it clear that this is not a war on Islam and they only arrest people they think, perhaps wrongly sometimes, are terrorists. Compare and contrast with the attitude of the bombers themselves and the wider Muslim communities from which they come.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

I agree. It is complicated and it needs co-operation and work by two communities: the mainstream community needs to go on tracking them down and putting them in jail, and their originating Faith and ethnic communities need to stop producing new ones.

Nice. Blame it all on us.

Is there a single country in the world where that is the case? Where do the Americans have soldiers where they are not wanted? The Saudis wanted them out and so they are gone.

If the people in Iraq wanted them there, there wouldn't be a resistance.

Where did they say that? It seems a reasonable assumption to me. Being a devout Muslim and being a supporter of al-Qaeda is not a coincidence. I am sure there are devout Muslims out there that are not supporters of al-Qaeda, but you can look at this site alone and see the two are closely related.

That's a little narrow minded. How did you come to that conclusion?

The Americans get the blame for everything. If they meddle or if they don't. If they intervene or not. Doesn't matter. There is no point even talking to the sort of people who have no rational basis for their objections to what the Americans do but just blindly oppose them on everything.

If they didn't meddle, i'd be very happy. Seeing as I come from a country where they have meddled, and they are trying to meddle again.

Having said that, I think that the Americans ought to get out of the Middle East and the Islamic world generally.

Yup. Definitely.

And Muslims ought to be encouraged to leave non-Muslim countries. We cannot live together. Separation is the only viable option.

If that is how you feel. They'd still be chasing after us even if we all left. But that isn't going to happen. There are alot of reverts, remember? There are alot of western born Muslims too. But I think we should only voluntarily stay in the lands of teh kuffar for Da'wah. But for alot of people, leaving is not an option and is almost impossible.
-Peace

 

[HeiGou]

I agree. It is complicated and it needs co-operation and work by two communities: the mainstream community needs to go on tracking them down and putting them in jail, and their originating Faith and ethnic communities need to stop producing new ones.

Nice. Blame it all on us.

It isn't my community that is producing these bombers. You do not see Buddhists beheading anyone. Or Hinsu blowing themselves up in the Tube. One community and one community only produced these bombers. Who should I blame it on? The Jews?

Is there a single country in the world where that is the case? Where do the Americans have soldiers where they are not wanted? The Saudis wanted them out and so they are gone.

If the people in Iraq wanted them there, there wouldn't be a resistance.

Well that is not true either. It is like saying if the British public did not want suicide bombing there would be none. A segment of the Iraqi population does not want them there. How big is that segment? Well who knows? It is probably not all of the Sunni Arabs, but it is unlikely to include many non-Arabs or non-Sunnis. The Kurds are happy. The Shia seem happy enough.

Where did they say that? It seems a reasonable assumption to me. Being a devout Muslim and being a supporter of al-Qaeda is not a coincidence. I am sure there are devout Muslims out there that are not supporters of al-Qaeda, but you can look at this site alone and see the two are closely related.

That's a little narrow minded. How did you come to that conclusion?

How is that narrow minded? It is a perfectly reasonable statement. Al-Qaeda is a religious-based organisation. It does not recruit Jews or Christians or Buddhists. It recruits Muslims. It is religious in orientation. It is not a secular group or a Marxist one but a religious one. Presumably one of the criteria for joining is Belief. You may disagree with their theology (or not as the case may be), but surely you cannot deny that they are generally highly observant people.

The Americans get the blame for everything. If they meddle or if they don't. If they intervene or not. Doesn't matter. There is no point even talking to the sort of people who have no rational basis for their objections to what the Americans do but just blindly oppose them on everything.

If they didn't meddle, i'd be very happy. Seeing as I come from a country where they have meddled, and they are trying to meddle again.

By meddling you mean they tried to feed the starving and end the civil war? What is the evidence you would be happy if they stopped meddling?

And Muslims ought to be encouraged to leave non-Muslim countries. We cannot live together. Separation is the only viable option.

If that is how you feel. They'd still be chasing after us even if we all left. But that isn't going to happen. There are alot of reverts, remember? There are alot of western born Muslims too. But I think we should only voluntarily stay in the lands of teh kuffar for Da'wah. But for alot of people, leaving is not an option and is almost impossible.

Not just me. Growing numbers of Europeans and a large number of Muslim people around here too. I don't see why anyone would bother. Is it not as if the Muslim world has much to offer except oil. And I don't think that is worth it. The reverts and the Western-born Muslims are non-issues. I no longer think they contribute anything worth having or at least worth the risks of them being here. Canada and Denmark show, it isn't the War, it isn't Palestine, it isn't Iraq. It is just as Bush said. It is us. And you.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

It isn't my community that is producing these bombers. You do not see Buddhists beheading anyone. Or Hinsu blowing themselves up in the Tube. One community and one community only produced these bombers. Who should I blame it on? The Jews?



Well that is not true either. It is like saying if the British public did not want suicide bombing there would be none. A segment of the Iraqi population does not want them there. How big is that segment? Well who knows? It is probably not all of the Sunni Arabs, but it is unlikely to include many non-Arabs or non-Sunnis. The Kurds are happy. The Shia seem happy enough.



How is that narrow minded? It is a perfectly reasonable statement. Al-Qaeda is a religious-based organisation. It does not recruit Jews or Christians or Buddhists. It recruits Muslims. It is religious in orientation. It is not a secular group or a Marxist one but a religious one. Presumably one of the criteria for joining is Belief. You may disagree with their theology (or not as the case may be), but surely you cannot deny that they are generally highly observant people.



By meddling you mean they tried to feed the starving and end the civil war? What is the evidence you would be happy if they stopped meddling?



Not just me. Growing numbers of Europeans and a large number of Muslim people around here too. I don't see why anyone would bother. Is it not as if the Muslim world has much to offer except oil. And I don't think that is worth it. The reverts and the Western-born Muslims are non-issues. I no longer think they contribute anything worth having or at least worth the risks of them being here. Canada and Denmark show, it isn't the War, it isn't Palestine, it isn't Iraq. It is just as Bush said. It is us. And you.

Is that right? We contribute nothing? Haha. Ok. That says it all. There isn't any point of me continuing this conversation with you if you're going to come out with bigotted statements like that.