what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

hi guys, just back to see what your views on this is....

I believe God punishes evil, and i believe a good judge does not let evil go unpunished, as most of you know.

Now you guys say that allah is all merciful, and i assume yous say he is all rightous, now doesnt unpunished evil show a lack of rightousness? it does to me, and im sure it does to you.

Like the point i have made before, if a man brakes the law and is willing to repent of his evil deeds, should the mans evil crimes be unpunished? even us sinners punish sin wether they are repentant or not, so shouldnt an all rightous God even more punish evil?

Then u say again but allah is also merciful, but i say that allah lacks rightousness in this case, and i say Jesus Christ shows a rightous God punishing sin for us, a rightous and just God who loves us enough to give us his everything. Jesus was not forced to the cross, he choose it because he though we were wirht dying for. Look closer guys.

God bless

Salaam,

agian you try to restrict allah but you only restric yourself.
allah is Allah do not try to disasssemble him.

you split the world in good and evil,but is it not true that Allah created the angels and evil ones?


You do not understand but this world is but a test not only for mankind but all of creation.
even the closest of servant the angles are tested of their faith.


you ,me,jinns,satan are all under observation.our choices will refer us to heaven or hell.


the final judgement is on the day of dread ,the day when we ill all be judged by the JUST ONE.On that day we will face the reckoning of our actions and inaction,our thought and our deeds.

so pls do not see what you wish to see,see what is already there.
as for not punishing the evil one,i assume you know of shariah laws in islam?
those are divine laws ,a punishment to offset the punishement of the after days.
the punishment is set but then agian allah test us whether we will follow the laws set or will we follow our hearts.

For you wish top judge by on action and you say then that god is righteous.
But may i ask you this.let us talk about a doctor who murdered one man but saved 1000.should he punished for that one criminal act to suffer for his entirety?

thus the judgement is at the end when we cant do anything either to repent or to strike,on that day we are powerless and only our action will be judged.

so leave be,do not restrict allah divine judgemtn by what you perceive.Leave the judgement to the ONE whom is the MOST JUST and MOST MERCIFUL.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Isnt that where baptism comes in? because of this belief in original sin?

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

sorry but at no point in your reply did u see anything in relation to what i wrote.

i will ask simply.

1) Do u agree that unpunished evil lacks rightousness? ( let me guess, no? ) thats what i thought because your God doesnt punish evil on repentience. So why would you admit to this truth? admitting to this is showing allah lacking rightousness! so u dont need to answer this i know your answer.

2) Do you know muslims in iran who have been won by Christ and his love. are being killed by muslims, are these muslims following your fatih? if they are boy your faith is merciful.

3) Have you ever lied? have you ever stolen anything? im guessing, have u ever look at a woman in lust? If you have any of these things then u have broken just 3 of Gods laws, we have all fallen short of Gods standards! Does God want a bunch of liers and theifs in heaven? No, we will be found guilty for our sin on the day of judgement, a rightous just would find ever man guilty of sin, but a loving Judge pays our debt for us, in Jesus Christ we have freedom, not that is love, and i dont need CAPTIAL LETTERS TO SAY THAT JESUS IS ALIVE AND GOD IS RIGHTOUS AND MERCIFUL.

peace my good friend.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

sorry but at no point in your reply did u see anything in relation to what i wrote.

i will ask simply.

1) Do u agree that unpunished evil lacks rightousness? ( let me guess, no? ) thats what i thought because your God doesnt punish evil on repentience. So why would you admit to this truth? admitting to this is showing allah lacking rightousness! so u dont need to answer this i know your answer.

2) Do you know muslims in iran who have been won by Christ and his love. are being killed by muslims, are these muslims following your fatih? if they are boy your faith is merciful.

3) Have you ever lied? have you ever stolen anything? im guessing, have u ever look at a woman in lust? If you have any of these things then u have broken just 3 of Gods laws, we have all fallen short of Gods standards! Does God want a bunch of liers and theifs in heaven? No, we will be found guilty for our sin on the day of judgement, a rightous just would find ever man guilty of sin, but a loving Judge pays our debt for us, in Jesus Christ we have freedom, not that is love, and i dont need CAPTIAL LETTERS TO SAY THAT JESUS IS ALIVE AND GOD IS RIGHTOUS AND MERCIFUL.

peace my good friend.

How is God merciful if he does not forgive one who repents? If they repent with true heart.. why shouldnt they be forgiven? God is not unmerciful. If a person does something wrong, repents but does it again and so forth, they will not be forgiven. For them is a place in the hell fire. For those have won Christ and his love( i guess u mean conversion), it doesnt allow Muslims to kill them unless they betray the people and the country they live in. God gave us a mind to decide our own path. Each action they take will be decided accordingly. If u dont need capital letters then done use it. Everyone will be judged according to their deeds. WHo are u to judge God and the actions of the people? No one. It will be upto God to decide whether that person is forgiven or not. Allah is most merciful and is surely better than creation.

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

God forgives those who repent, but he still needs to punish the evil we have done because he is rightous, and it goes against his nature to leave evil unpunished, but the love he had he setn Jesus.

And when did u judge anyone? who are u to accuse me of this? lol cmon!

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

And when did u judge anyone? who are u to accuse me of this? lol cmon!

Lol ok ok... i said that to tease u o0o u smart arent u ahah.

God forgives those who repent, but he still needs to punish the evil we have done because he is rightous, and it goes against his nature to leave evil unpunished, but the love he had he setn Jesus.

Of course God punishes, but its up to God to decide if they r deserving of it. Who would know better? Honestly if u r so interested in wanting to know, I suggest u go read the Quran/Sunnah urself. Whats a better source than that?

 

[ZOREENA]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

hi guys, just back to see what your views on this is....

I believe God punishes evil, and i believe a good judge does not let evil go unpunished, as most of you know.

Now you guys say that allah is all merciful, and i assume yous say he is all rightous, now doesnt unpunished evil show a lack of rightousness? it does to me, and im sure it does to you.

Like the point i have made before, if a man brakes the law and is willing to repent of his evil deeds, should the mans evil crimes be unpunished? even us sinners punish sin wether they are repentant or not, so shouldnt an all rightous God even more punish evil?

Then u say again but allah is also merciful, but i say that allah lacks rightousness in this case, and i say Jesus Christ shows a rightous God punishing sin for us, a rightous and just God who loves us enough to give us his everything. Jesus was not forced to the cross, he choose it because he though we were wirht dying for. Look closer guys.

God bless

I WONDER WHY JESUS FELT THE NEED TO DIE FOR THE PEOPLEZ SINZ?I DONT SEE THAT AS RIGHTEOUS NOR JUST...WHY SHOULD HE HAVE HAD TO?? U SAY HE CHOSE TO...NOT ACCORDING TO TANYTHING IV SEEN...HE WAS TRAILED TO IT IE THE CROSS!! WELL WHAT EXACTLI DID IT DO...? AND DID HE SAY WHY HAVE U FORSAKEN ME ON THE CROSS? WHAT FOR? AND IF THEY ARE A TRINITY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GOD DIE ON THE CROSS TOO?

 

[ZOREENA]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Isnt that where baptism comes in? because of this belief in original sin?

Yeah itz where the baby is absolved from original sin!!

 

[ZOREENA]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Where do u think these punishments or hardships will take place??? on Earth as it were or in heaven/hell??? Coz we are sent trialz on earth here....sumtimez thingz happen for a reason or God works in mysterious ways..for example if we dont pray we most ceratintly will not have as peaceful and serene life as a daily prayer etc...we can almost incurr punishments here on earth...we dont know what Allah swt does or when or what....he makez the earth go round..so he can punish or try or reward us whatever way he likez!! As a catholic....before.....we were ALL lead to believe..that if we go to confession and are sins arent too bad....wed all be goin to heaven anyway!! In Islam...u know u gotta work for it!!! Millionz of Catholics think ooo i havent killed no one...ner do i kneel down n worship my God but im still goin to heaven...coz thatz just how this airy fairy thing works!! I 'KNEW' I was goin to heaven and never feared hell as a Catholic...now I know I will be punished severely if I dont do what I have to....EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY ACTIONZ WILL BE NOTED....but as a Catholic...we didnt know what were meant to do...how u were supposed to do things like pray...wash..eat...speak....think....learn...socialise...nothing...just wee stories....ISLAM IS RIGHTEOUS AND OF COURSE JUST!! Hence there to be a Day of Judgement!!

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Yeah itz where the baby is absolved from original sin!!

So that kinda refutes anyone sayin a baby is not sinned when he's born. If the baby doesnt get baptized they end up thinking theres like no hope for the kid.

 

[ZOREENA]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Well in the Catholic tradition the baby is Baptized to cleanze it from original sin!! To welcome the baby into the community....but like I dont think ppl think o theres no hope for that kid if he aint baptized theyd prob just think that itz not a Catholic!!

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

Of course God punishes, but its up to God to decide if they r deserving of it. Who would know better? Honestly if u r so interested in wanting to know, I suggest u go read the Quran/Sunnah urself. Whats a better source than that?

We could go round in circles, i have made clear unpunished sin shows lack of rightousness, and we all deserve to be punished because we have all sinned against God. So lets conclude that you believe your God lets evil go unpunished and mine punishs evil, and i dont need to open the koran because i have experienced Jesus Christ as my saviour and in many different supernatural ways in my life, to me its not a question of whos right, i dont wonder what if im wrong because i know Jesus is alive just as much as i know my mother is alive. So that means either i am a liar, ive lost my marbles, or Jesus Christ is alive, i know which one.

I WONDER WHY JESUS FELT THE NEED TO DIE FOR THE PEOPLEZ SINZ?I DONT SEE THAT AS RIGHTEOUS NOR JUST...WHY SHOULD HE HAVE HAD TO?? U SAY HE CHOSE TO...NOT ACCORDING TO TANYTHING IV SEEN...HE WAS TRAILED TO IT IE THE CROSS!! WELL WHAT EXACTLI DID IT DO...? AND DID HE SAY WHY HAVE U FORSAKEN ME ON THE CROSS? WHAT FOR? AND IF THEY ARE A TRINITY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GOD DIE ON THE CROSS TOO?

Jesus felt the need to die for us out of Love, not out of anything else, Jesus could have said at any moment, father carry me away, he said father not my will be done but mine, he choose to do his fathers will because he love us and though we were worth dying for. Remember Jesus was God in the form of a man, and for him not to want to die for us, wud not make him and his father "one" as he says, because if God the fathers wants to save us, then Jesus also does and its was God the father who sent Jesus.

You Ask why Jesus said "Father why have you forsaken me?" because for the fisrt time in his life he was carrying sin, he had every single sin on his soul and it was a black black place he was in, he had to know what it felt like to rape a woman, he had to feel the pleasure of sticking a knife in someone, he was carrying yours and my sin, because he loved us enough. Now i try not to get carried away on here but i get mad sometimes because he did this for you, and he still loves you all 2day, and you wont choose to see it, u are so caught in your islam world that u are blinded to the truth, and to be honest, i care about your salvation, but not as much as him, the reason im here is not to see whos right, but because i know how precious you all are to Jesus, i just want to see it, to see it for real, to know that Jesus loves you and died for you, God gave his only son for you.

Let me tell you a story, a muslim woman was walking in her garden and she smelled a beutiful smell, she managed to get her hands on a bible, and then gave her life to Jesus, that smell was the aroma of Christ, she put her life at risk for Jesus Christ, this is not a game, he is real, and he is holy, and he is coming as the king of kings very soon, please, when u see him riding on the clouds, dont be looking with fear thinking what have i done? i want you to look up with so much joy that your lord has come for you as he promised, but u have to let him in as your lord, and i promise if any of you do, u will life the rest of your days here, trying to convince every muslim you meet, that they have been decieved, see it for what it is.

God bless my friends.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

We could go round in circles, i have made clear unpunished sin shows lack of rightousness, and we all deserve to be punished because we have all sinned against God. So lets conclude that you believe your God lets evil go unpunished and mine punishs evil, and i dont need to open the koran because i have experienced Jesus Christ as my saviour and in many different supernatural ways in my life, to me its not a question of whos right, i dont wonder what if im wrong because i know Jesus is alive just as much as i know my mother is alive. So that means either i am a liar, ive lost my marbles, or Jesus Christ is alive, i know which one.

If u dont need to open the Quran then dont assume things and say things about any of it without the correct knowledge. I know Islam is the one true religion(in my eyes) but that doesnt stop me from opening the Bible. I like to keep an open mind and learn things about the other religion so i dont get anything wrong. A person who wants to learn does not reject knowledge and opportunities that comes to them. Islam requires us to gain knowledge and learn bout other religions so u can have an intellectual dialogue or agreement and come to a conclusion.

Peace

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

excuse me, there u go accusing me again, your speaking as if i dont have an open mind, you dont know me, i have spent the last few months learning about islam, and if u call people on here your frends then thats were im getting most of my knowlenge on islam. Please correct me if i have said anything to misunderstand your faith and i will appoligise, but untill then please dont say things like this. I know the basis of your religion but i dont intednt to read to koran so i know it verse by verse.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

excuse me, there u go accusing me again, your speaking as if i dont have an open mind, you dont know me, i have spent the last few months learning about islam, and if u call people on here your frends then thats were im getting most of my knowlenge on islam. Please correct me if i have said anything to misunderstand your faith and i will appoligise, but untill then please dont say things like this. I know the basis of your religion but i dont intednt to read to koran so i know it verse by verse.

i was talking in general, did i say ur name? no..
and u saying lets conclude "our" God doesnt let evil go unpunsihed..dont thnik like that cuz its wrong.
Im not here to gain enemies. some of the things i read from people i have to point cuz some of it is false.
Peace

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

im sorry but some evil goes unpunished in islam. is that not true? have u ever broken at least 1 of Gods laws? yes im sure u believe every man sins, so do u think your evil will go unpunished? im sure u do or esle you and alot of muslims are in trouble.

you see my God is so rightous he has to punish the smallest fib, its is in our nature to sin, and it is in Gods nature to punish sin, whether there is repentence or not. i thank God that he took my punishment of himself.

I am not here to make enemies either friend, i just want people to see the truth.

God bless

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

im sorry but some evil goes unpunished in islam. is that not true?

Nope, wrong, not true.thats why i say dont assume things. Are u Muslim? did u die and then come back to be able to know that?

yes im sure u believe every man sins, so do u think your evil will go unpunished? im sure u do or esle you and alot of muslims are in trouble.

Wrong, its between me and God. I will be judged accordingly, thats why its called "Judgement Day"

you see my God is so righteous he has to punish the smallest fib, its is in our nature to sin, and it is in Gods nature to punish sin, whether there is repentence or not

So why does ur God need to punsih u, if Jesus died for the sins of man?

Not sparing some1's life huh even if they repent? Doesnt sound like righteousness.
Say if i believed Jesus was God(if). I sinned and repented and did everything i was supposed too, im still gunna pay for it? How is that God loving? If someone did something wrong to u but theyregreted and asked for ur forgiveness wouldnt u forgive that person? Of course who wouldnt, its in human nature. People do a lot of wrongs to me and my family, yet when they apologize we forgive them, and even after they do it repeatedly. God loves those who r just and forgives others. i I dont think anyone has a bigger heart than God. Humans r nuthing compared to God, and God has a bigger heart than all, since u know he did create mankind with feelings and the ability to be righteous. What the person does wrong is between them and God. we cannot judge them. We can most definitely tell them of their wrongs, but its up to them to take heed of the advice. On the day of judgement, no1 is accountable for anothers actions, ur only accountable for ur own.

To be honest with u i dont want enemies either, not my intention.
Hope we can keep it clean
Peace

 

[Zulkiflim]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

im sorry but some evil goes unpunished in islam. is that not true? have u ever broken at least 1 of Gods laws? yes im sure u believe every man sins, so do u think your evil will go unpunished? im sure u do or esle you and alot of muslims are in trouble.

you see my God is so rightous he has to punish the smallest fib, its is in our nature to sin, and it is in Gods nature to punish sin, whether there is repentence or not. i thank God that he took my punishment of himself.

I am not here to make enemies either friend, i just want people to see the truth.

God bless

Salaam,

First off,we muslim KNOW we are accountable for our actions..But you dont

As you say,your god is soo righteous that he must punish all sin even the smallest fib..
So in that point what ever you do,wheter you lie or kill or rape little boys or girls,god punish himself for your actions.

So thus you are in your own mind FREE to do what ever ill you wnat for you beleive that your sin is already unto god...right..

So in such light we muslim we know whetehr we do wrong or right in the end we will be judged by ONE whom is the MOST JUST and MOST MERCIFUL.
Whereas you say that god has already punished himself for your sin.

Can you tell me if that is the case,what can you not DO??

You mock yourself and know it not.

As the quran say...Some people said they beleive their palce in heaven is assured,Allah replied SHOW YOUR PROOF.....and in another challenge..SEEK YE DEATH..but they wont..

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

So thus you are in your own mind FREE to do what ever ill you wnat for you beleive that your sin is already unto god...right..

I would like to think your bright enought to understand, that God knows the heart of every man, and repentance starts in the heart. I could go on sinning but think to myself its ok i wont be punished. I would be a fool. It doesnt work like that, its works in accepting Jesus as your lord and saviour, and turning from all you know is wrong. Im sure u understand this clearly. So you ask what can we not DO? what do u think we cant do? think about it its not hard. Jesus didnt die so we would do what we want, but so we could be forgiven for the things we have allready done and fulfill the law of the OT. And he gave us 2 new commandments, love your God with you heart mind bosy and soul, and love you neighbour as yourself. And doing this, obeying Gods laws will follow.

Not sparing some1's life huh even if they repent? Doesnt sound like righteousness.
Say if i believed Jesus was God(if). I sinned and repented and did everything i was supposed too, im still gunna pay for it? How is that God loving? If someone did something wrong to u but theyregreted and asked for ur forgiveness wouldnt u forgive that person? Of course who wouldnt, its in human nature. People do a lot of wrongs to me and my family, yet when they apologize we forgive them, and even after they do it repeatedly. God loves those who r just and forgives others. i I dont think anyone has a bigger heart than God. Humans r nuthing compared to God, and God has a bigger heart than all, since u know he did create mankind with feelings and the ability to be righteous. What the person does wrong is between them and God. we cannot judge them. We can most definitely tell them of their wrongs, but its up to them to take heed of the advice. On the day of judgement, no1 is accountable for anothers actions, ur only accountable for ur own.

Your asking if we repent does God still punish us? no of course not, because out of love he gave his only son to pay our punishment. So if we accept Jesus our sins are forgiven. Dont u understand what i have said before? God is rightous and has to punish evil, God is loving and didnt want tp punish us, So God being a rightous and JUST God, and at the same time a loving God, he gave the ultimate sacrafice in Jesus. And throught Jesus out evil can be forgiven because God has already punished our sin on himslef out of love.

Now i dont know what human nature you live in but its not in human nature to forgive, it might be easy to forgve someone offending you or something small? But if someone murdered you mother or father would it be in the average human nature to forgive the murderer? no it wouldnt. So forgivness in Gods scale is not in our nature. Recently a christian mother lost her son to a stabbing, the news reporter ask his mother, "can u ever forgive the man who done this to your son"? she took a moment and replied yes i forgive him. She showed this man the same forgivness that God showed her, but she still wanted him to be punished for what he did. Because it would be morally wrong to let this man off with this evil crime. So human nature doesnt teach us how to forgive even the worst crimes, but God through Jesus Christ does.

You can say God is this and that and sin is between them and God. But its doesnt excuse the fact that unpunished evil is lack of rightousness. So u say i assume about your faith, are u assuming your evil will go unpunished or punished? dangerous thing to assume.

God bless

 

[4-Christ-Alone]

Re: what is original sin? some questions to the chrisitians and all are welcome to answer

let me explain something.

God is rightous

God punishs evil

God is loving

To Not punish evil would not show him as a rightous God

God cant go against his rightous, JUST, and HOLY nature

God has to send the perfect sacrafice for our sin.

Olny a perfect sacrafice can be sufficient to take away the sins on the world.

God gave his only beggoten son, so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

This shows God, as RIGHTOUS, JUST, FAIR, HOLY, KIND,and most of all LOVING, this is God, and anything lacking here would be something short of the concept of God.

God bless