Palestinians/Formation of Israel

[kadafi]

Therefore you could say the rightful owners of the land are the Jews.

Historically inaccurate.

Muslims have full rights in Israel.

Israeli Arabs struggle to fit in
Arabs make up 20% of Israel's population. But many feel they are treated as second class citizens, and the sense of alienation is growing.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2691357.stm

SECOND CLASS
Discrimination Against Palestinian Arab Children in Israel's Schools
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/index.htm


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[searchingsoul]

Not exactly. Under the Ottoman rule, landowners were required to inscribe their property in the land register in order to pay the nescessary tax(es). This was called the tabu law. However, some ignored the law and continue to operate under their cultural concept refered to as fedan which implies that villagers of a certain village own the land collectively and are shared equally.

So the landowners neglected Ottoman law, which was seen as a forfeit of their land, since they weren't abiding by the law?

http://www.progress.org/land28.htm

In 1858 the Ottoman Authority introduced the law of tabu to establish rights of land ownership. Landowners were instructed to have their property inscribed in the land register. The tabu was resisted by the fellahin. They saw a threat to their community in registering their land for two main reasons: 1) the cultivated fields were classified as ardh ameriyeh (the land of the emirate) and were taxed, so owners of registered fertile land were forced to pay tax on it; 2) data from the land register were used by the Turkish Army for the purpose of the draft. Owners of registered lands were often drafted to fight with the Turkish Army in Russia.

If the landowners chose to ignore the laws, and didn't register their land, then it seems logical to me that they forfeited this land. Is there a a better explanation?

 

[Zionazi_Dissent]

Islam was given an Arab State when the Jewish State was created. Greed was why the Arabs wanted all of the Land.

Goo-goo gah-gah?

Muslims have full rights in Israel.

There is a Muslim president of congress, Muslims can run for any office they chose. Actually Muslims have more freedoms in Israel than they would have in many strict Islamic countries.

LOL, isnt it true you're a citizen of Israel you're simply Jewish?

Ever heard of Human Rights watch? You should check the status of your state.

 

[kadafi]

So the landowners neglected Ottoman law, which was seen as a forfeit of their land, since they weren't abiding by the law?

That is incorrect. Some ignored the law which indicates no specific number. That article that you have posted also suggests that some have registered land that extended their actual land which would imply that the land that was not registered and belonged to the Palestinians was eventually registered by Palestinians who did not own the land.

PalestineRemembered has conducted a statistical page indicating the allocation of lands for every city/village.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Safad/index.html

Click on the cities/villages on the map.

Regards

 

[searchingsoul]

OMG....the same stupid questions over and over again.....

Why dont you do some research for a change? Lets start here

If you read my post you will find that I'm wishing to know the various reasons in which people base their opinions on the subject of the formation of Israel. I am capable of research, and do so on a regular basis. But I feel it is necessary to examine all sides of an issue before arriving at an opinion.

The beauty of a forum is that it allows us to examine multiple views, and makes us more empathetic toward other people.

Remarks such as:

Someone's a dumbass. ^_^

Use Google, it's your best friend
are one of the unfortunate flaws of forums.

If you wish to share your views about this topic, I welcome your imput. Please direct insults or childish remarks to my PM. Otherwise I will ignore you. Thanks!

 

[Geronimo]

It is ludicrous to equate Israel's capture of Palestine to the Islamic Empire's liberation of other nations. The tactics used by the Jewish terrorists prior to the creation of Israel is at best crimes against humanity. They have systematically massacred entire communities, forced the indigenous inhabitants to flee and unlawfully acquired land through propaganda and violence.




The descendants of the Canaanites are the Palestinians which makes them indigenous inhabitants of Palestine.

They were actually Philistines, look it up in the bible. The Philistines are actually descendants of ancient greece.

 

[Geronimo]

So when are muslims giving Pakistan back? Free Pakistan! Free Pakistan! Free Pakistan!

 

[searchingsoul]

So when are muslims giving Pakistan back? Free Pakistan! Free Pakistan! Free Pakistan!

I can see your analogy. Wasn't the land of Pakistan obtained by means which were questionable to a lot of people?

Where do we draw the line?

What makes one allocation of land more significant than the other?

 

[kadafi]

They were actually Philistines, look it up in the bible. The Philistines are actually descendants of ancient greece.

The Philistines occupied Canaan in 12th century BCE and adopted the Canaanite culture.

Regards

 

[searchingsoul]

That is incorrect. Some ignored the law which indicates no specific number. That article that you have posted also suggests that some have registered land that extended their actual land which would imply that the land that was not registered and belonged to the Palestinians was eventually registered by Palestinians who did not own the land.

[/COLOR]PalestineRemembered has conducted a statistical page indicating the allocation of lands for every city/village.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Safad/index.html

Click on the cities/villages on the map.

Regards

Thanks for the link. It contains a lot of information. Getting back to what you said above, if palestinians who did not own the land, registered it, how is this valid? Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[kadafi]

Thanks for the link. It contains a lot of information. Getting back to what you said above, if palestinians who did not own the land, registered it, how is this valid? Am I misunderstanding you?

I apologise for my lack of clarity. Some landowners failed to register their property for several reasons outlined in the previous posts and the link you cited. Their property would show up unregistered. Other landowners registered the unregistered property that did not belong to them under their own name which indicates that whilst some may not have registered their property under the Ottoman rule, others have secured that those properties are to be reconigzed as Palestinian properties.

Regards

 

[searchingsoul]

I apologise for my lack of clarity. Some landowners failed to register their property for several reasons outlined in the previous posts and the link you cited. Their property would show up unregistered. Other landowners registered the unregistered property that did not belong to them under their own name which indicates that whilst some may not have registered their property under the Ottoman rule, others have secured that those properties are to be reconigzed as Palestinian properties.

Regards

I appreciate you mentioning the tabu and fedun laws. This is the first time I've heard of them. From what I've read so far, I personally don't feel that fedun law justifies the palestinian claim to land. Even if I am wrong, I'm thinking the misunderstanding of law by arabs and israeli's during the formation of Israel is enough for any reasonable person to understand why there's such indifference (by many people) toward the Palestinian claim. This is enough reason for me to conclude that the palestinians need to move on and find other homelands.

 

[Zionazi_Dissent]

LOL, its pretty obvious you're biased to begin with.

Go to "Palestine" and see if anything causes you to change your mind.

 

[searchingsoul]

LOL, its pretty obvious you're biased to begin with.

Go to "Palestine" and see if anything causes you to change your mind.

I try to be unbiased but all of us are, without intention.

I agree that current treatment of Palestinians are often inhumane, and this sickens me. But I'm trying to focus on the root causes in an attempt to understand the various views.

 

[kadafi]

I appreciate you mentioning the tabu and fedun laws. This is the first time I've heard of them. From what I've read so far, I personally don't feel that fedun law justifies the palestinian claim to land. Even if I am wrong, I'm thinking the misunderstanding of law by arabs and israeli's during the formation of Israel is enough for any reasonable person to understand why there's such indifference (by many people) toward the Palestinian claim. This is enough reason for me to conclude that the palestinians need to move on and find other homelands.

Actually, there is no disputation regarding ownership of the majority of the lands and this is also attested by several Israeli historians. This is also the reason why the Zionists' aim was the acquisition of majority of the land land by buying it from the Palestinian owners. Fortunaly, it did not go higher than 7% of the total land.

As for finding 'other homelands'. That is unfortunately not easy as it sounds and in fact highly impossible. Palestinians recognize Israel and have on numerous occassions showed their good faith by accepting the two-state solution but it is Israel who has on numerous occassions rejected that solution.

Regards

 

[Zionazi_Dissent]

I agree that current treatment of Palestinians are often inhumane, and this sickens me. But I'm trying to focus on the root causes in an attempt to understand the various views.

No, you're trying to use "root causes" to justify Palestinian sufferring. You're just trying to prove that the Palestinians are causing their own suffering which is not only arrogant, its absolutely ignorant.

 

[wilberhum]

You just have to love it.

It is ludicrous to equate Israel's capture of Palestine to the Islamic Empire's liberation of other nations.

Boy talk about bias.

 

[kadafi]

You just have to love it.

Boy talk about bias.

Hello wilberhum

Yes bias indeed [sarcasm]. Hence why Edward Gibsons (best contempary historian) described the Islaamic conquests as one of the most memorable revolutions which has impressed a new and lasting character on the nations of the globe.

You are free to discuss this with me under a new topic instead of diverting from this topic. Drop me a pm so I can create one. If not, then leave the accussations aside.

Regards

 

[searchingsoul]

Actually, there is no disputation regarding ownership of the majority of the lands and this is also attested by several Israeli historians. This is also the reason why the Zionists' aim was the acquisition of land by buying it from the Palestinian owners. Fortunaly, it did not go higher than 7% of the total land.

I still don't understand why there's an issue since the land was bought. There may be problems with the zionist intention. But this just seems to me like a "good deal gone bad".

As for finding 'other homelands'. That is unfortunately not easy as it sounds and in fact highly impossible. Palestinians recognize Israel and have on numerous occassions showed their good faith by accepting the two-state solution but it is Israel has on numerous occassions rejected that solution.

Israel offered an arab state and it was rejected. Since then Israel has rejected a two-state solution. I think there's too much hate and emotion involved. There seems to be no end in sight!:heated: I wouldn't want to live in a refugee camp all my life. I think I'd want more for myself and future generations. I'd move on and find another homeland.
Regards

thanks again

 

[searchingsoul]

No, you're trying to use "root causes" to justify Palestinian sufferring. You're just trying to prove that the Palestinians are causing their own suffering which is not only arrogant, its absolutely ignorant.

sorry you feel that way