Atheism

[czgibson]

Greetings,

wow. place your intellect over the intellect of the rest of the people no matter how reasonable they might be?

I don't really see how my comment implies that. Your view, however, does imply that - you assume that you know the purpose of my life; I do not assume I know the purpose of anyone's, let alone my own.

You are not aware of the fact that Satan whispers into your mind and deceives you everytime you come closer to the truth.

You're right, I'm not aware of that. That's because I believe Satan is a fictional character invented to scare people.

Really? Crackpots is the word I would use for these "philosopers" who come up with the most idiotic concepts that preach nothing but falsehood.

Do you even know the first thing about Sartre? You can't even spell his name correctly, so I'm assuming not.

He's the founder of existentialism and one of the most influential philosophers of the 20th century, like it or not. Calling him a crackpot only displays your total ignorance of his ideas.

Just so you know...it will be too late by the time you realize the reality of your life...

I'm glad you feel confident enough to predict the future.

Seriously man....I don't see how can people be so unrealistic? This is not a fairy tale..this is the reality of life...Click here http://www.themodernreligion.com/death/every-soul.html

Sorry - that looks far more like a fairy-tale to me.

ok let me ask you something...If somebody murders 300 people with a bomb and dies a natural death right after it. how should he be held accountable? or you think he is free from accountability? give me a logical answer.

The simple answer is they can't be held accountable. Once someone is dead, it's impossible to punish them. This was the case with Hitler, who committed suicide before he could be brought to justice. I can understand your sense that there should be some way of holding them accountable after death, but wishing doesn't make it so.

You can correct me if im wrong! You mean to say that established scientific facts can be wrong?

Of course. That is how science progresses. In the Middle Ages, it was an established scientific fact that the Sun revolved around the Earth. This was strongly questioned by Copernicus and Galileo, among others, and the modern scientific view, as we all know, is that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Scientific theories can never be proven to be true; they can only be proven false. Whatever is currently accepted as a scientific fact is simply something that hasn't been proven false yet.

Alhamdulillah. It might be nonsense to you. It is an undeniable truth to me.
To you is your way and to me is mine.

I find the scientific miracles argument to be completely unconvincing, as I've explained many times on the forum.

Thanks.. I am assuming that you have completely misunderstood the purpose of these facts being mentioned in the Qur'an. It is not a book of science..it is a book of signs. Just one simple clear unequivocal sentence in the Qur'an in agreement with established science is enough as a sign. There is not just one..there are many in the Qur'an.

I don't understand this at all. I can think of many works of fiction that contain scientific facts - does this mean they are inspired by god too?

Peace

 

[Allah-creation]

czgibson, you are probably the most person i know that received so many signs about islam and still disbelieve. And i notice that u only reject the signs of the quran not disapprove them.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

czgibson, you are probably the most person i know that received so many signs about islam and still disbelieve.

I've learnt loads about Islam, mostly thanks to the people on this forum. None of it has convinced me that there is a god, however. When people mention these 'signs' to me, most of the time I'm staggered that any intelligent person could take them seriously.

And i notice that u only reject the signs of the quran not disapprove them.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Perhaps you could elaborate.

Islam is a religion I find very interesting, mainly because of the (to me) extradordinary level of devotion seen in most of its adherents. I also think it's important for Westerners like me to try and learn about Islam given our current world situation.

Peace

 

[Joe98]

.....afterall its a matter of burning yourselves forever in a fire that is unbearable.

This is a threat. I can never accept any god or religions that threaten me.

 

[cool_jannah]

czgibson, what are the odds of an illiterate man (pbuh) mentioning precise scientific facts that were discovered only recently? I cannot see how you can deny that. or you believe somebody else wrote it in the Qur'an right after the discoveries?

This is a threat. I can never accept any god or religions that threaten me.

Well...God is all powerful..He can do whatever he wills..and He does only justice to people...and every time in the revelations He sent..He has warned people of disbelieving and associating partners with Him.

 

[evangel]

If I may this site carries quite a bit of information about the age and history of the earth.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
To the athiests I have to say I admire your faith to believe that the earth is as it is by chance. I mean the statistical impossiblities of everything coming together as you say without a creator are beyond comprehension. There are few in any religious communities that are carried by the faith you exhibit.

But what if your wrong?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

czgibson, what are the odds of an illiterate man (pbuh) mentioning precise scientific facts that were discovered only recently? I cannot see how you can deny that. or you believe somebody else wrote it in the Qur'an right after the discoveries?

I've never seen any evidence of what you speak of. People have presented me with the 'scientific miracles in the Qur'an' argument, but instead of "precise scientific facts" I just see vaguely poetic ramblings that could be interpreted in various ways, and which have obviously just been sought out by Muslim apologists after the discoveries they are alleged to relate to.

If I may this site carries quite a bit of information about the age and history of the earth.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/

I couldn't get this link to work I'm afraid.

To the athiests I have to say I admire your faith to believe that the earth is as it is by chance.

Do atheists claim this? I certainly don't.

I mean the statistical impossiblities of everything coming together as you say without a creator are beyond comprehension.

But the fact is they have, as far as anyone knows. I don't know how the universe originated, and neither do you. You may think you know how it all started, but there is no evidence to support the creator hypothesis.

There are few in any religious communities that are carried by the faith you exhibit.

Atheists are not ususally members of religious communities...

But what if your wrong?

Ah, Pascal's Wager. Do you think I should believe in god solely because of the fear of hellfire?

Peace

 

[جوري]

i agree with you...

how can the atheist ppl said that this beautiful world...was created by accident...or shall we say coincidence...

If nothingness created itself for some unknown purpose and somehow a million possibility on earth, in the sky, in the water and in ourselves fell into place without the slightest bit of anarchy as usually happens when there is no Guide or engineer... then why the beauty, why the perfection why the order of events every day and seasonally? when something goes awry we deem it not the norm because we have standards by which to measure it? If randomness were supreme then every aspect of this universe would fall into anarchy....we wouldn't need all the details we would only need what was necessary to propagate....why would nothingness create all these superfluous details for what purpose? just the mere fact that we want to question tells me there is an innate need to find where we came from, and where we are going... on a very primal level for me anyway I have always believed that religion should give a sense of peace, purpose and fulfillment.... If our whole existence was some random act, then there is no loss as we go back to the dark nothing...but at least some of the anxiety of living without laws would have been alleviated ... and if there is an after life we'll have lived with a sense of accomplishment and armament for what is to come.... my two cents anyhow.... works for me..

 

[Joe98]

and somehow a million possibility on earth, in the sky, in the water and in ourselves fell into place without the slightest bit of anarchy

Actually it is constantly in anarchy.

In the meantime, why is it that the earth seems to be the only inhabited planet.

Scientists have found background "noise" representing catalysmic events billions of years ago in the universe and many light years away from earth.

Yet they have never discovered any signals from other beings on other planets. Why is that? The answer is because earth was a fluke.

Only 1 planet out of 6,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe supports intelligent life because earth was a fluke. A fluke caused by anarchy.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

The posts about scientific miracles in the Qur'an have been moved here:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/17936-miracles-facts-about-quran-5.html

 

[جوري]

Actually it is constantly in anarchy.

In the meantime, why is it that the earth seems to be the only inhabited planet.

Scientists have found background "noise" representing catalysmic events billions of years ago in the universe and many light years away from earth.

Yet they have never discovered any signals from other beings on other planets. Why is that? The answer is because earth was a fluke.

Only 1 planet out of 6,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe supports intelligent life because earth was a fluke. A fluke caused by anarchy.

Sure if you say so.... Thanks for convincing me:thumbs_up

 

[Md Mashud]

You can fight about if theres evidence if God exists or not, but I will firmly say that there is definatly reason and cause to believe he exists.

 

[Keltoi]

The issue is simply faith. If one uses the scientific method, it is all but impossible to "prove" the existence of a supernatural entity. Although I know of many scientists who don't see a conflict between religion and science, there is a vital conflict, and that is the burden of proof that all true scientists must live by.

 

[Woodrow]

The issue is simply faith. If one uses the scientific method, it is all but impossible to "prove" the existence of a supernatural entity. Although I know of many scientists who don't see a conflict between religion and science, there is a vital conflict, and that is the burden of proof that all true scientists must live by.

There is a built in boundery to the scientific proof. One of the means of proof is to be able to replicate a phenomenae under controled conditions. It is often overlooked by some scientists that the inability to do that is not evidence something does not exist. It is only evidence of not having the ability to replicate something.

 

[root]

There is a built in boundery to the scientific proof.

I am very sceptical about the word "proof" from a scientific pov. probability is a far better understanding of a scientific pov!

One of the means of proof is to be able to replicate a phenomenae under controled conditions.

I find that staement very suspicious. If I propose an existing atom that is so heavy that if we could break it open the energy released would be equal to the big bang. Go replicate that!

It is often overlooked by some scientists that the inability to do that is not evidence something does not exist. It is only evidence of not having the ability to replicate something.

Looks like my atom (which I just made up) could exist, since we merely don't have the ability to replicate it yet, you point is over simplified and way out.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Although I know of many scientists who don't see a conflict between religion and science, there is a vital conflict, and that is the burden of proof that all true scientists must live by.

I don't see any vital conflicts between religion and science. I might not have a degree in quantum physics, but I know a thing or two about science, and I don't feel like there's a burden to bear, please enlighten me

 

[QuranStudy]

If a relgion does not agree with science, then that religion is false. So far, I found one relgion which fits in this category.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If a relgion does not agree with science, then that religion is false. So far, I found one relgion which fits in this category.

Which false religion is it that you're thinking of?

Peace

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I'd like to take up a point that's been mentioned a couple of times during this debate:

No, you are Athiest because you like to worship your desires.

This is a simplistic (bigoted?) attitude, which is suggested in a more even-handed way here:

However, many self-professed atheists, that I have met, call themselves atheist simply because they want to justify their own actions and have no desire to follow any established rule. I do not place you in that category, you are a thinker and aware of your logic.

It's good to see that Woodrow notes a distinction among atheists here: those who are self-serving and those who are not.

Atheism is the belief that there is / are no god(s). That's it.

All other extrapolations from that, people's reasons for being atheists or interpretations that could be derived from the fact that atheists exist are utterly secondary to the fact that atheism is a simple belief in a negative proposition.

Speaking for myself, I think that believing in god would be very comforting. I think the idea that someone was always watching over me with a loving attitude; that whatever happened, god would see that things turned out for the best, according to his will; and that everything in the universe had been organised according to his wishes would be a thoroughly delightful state of affairs. If I believed according to my desires, that would be what I'd believe.

However, I would also like to believe that eating chocolate helps you lose weight, or that I can be assured a long and happy life, or that my grandfather will recover soon and we'll play football together again. Just because I would like to believe these things does not make them so.

Peace

 

[جوري]

However, I would also like to believe that eating chocolate helps you lose weight, or that I can be assured a long and happy life, or that my grandfather will recover soon and we'll play football together again. Just because I would like to believe these things does not make them so.

Peace

Dark chocolate contain antioxidants called Catechins and Phenols. These antioxidants could prevent heart diseases and cancer... you can have it as a part of a balanced diet... if you follow it correctly you might even lose weight on it....
the long and happy life bit... well no one can guarantee you that... not even disbelief in God
Terminal patients have been known to go into remission so who knows maybe your grandad might recover and play with you again....
God spells Hope, guidance, and personal fulfillment... even if he "doesn't exist" there would be not much to lose for having believed as you go into the scary dark nothing of nonexistence...... but faith does open doors of grandeur and even tiny things like lady bugs begin to make sense.... when you know it isn't a random event... that your existence means something.... that whether you live or die it matters to the one who breathed life into that union of the two cells your parents donated........if you believe in science then science states those who have faith live longer, happier lives... and deal better with illness... their brain is known to secrete sertonin the same chemical found in anti-depressants... a natural opiate is this amazing thing called faith... if you search through previous posts you'll find that article stating so..... my two cents and of course you are free to live/do as you please......