The 'hiding among civilians' excuse

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Ahmed “They don’t want a pure Islamic State anywhere in the world”, that is not true at all as far as the average Joe where I live.

Ansar has been telling us how wonderful a truly Islamic state would be, even the slave girls would love their masters and be willing partners in bearing the off-spring that would usher in the perfect government/religion in all parts of the globe.

Surely you would agree that the evil western world couldn’t stop that from happening some where in this world “They don’t want a pure Islamic State anywhere in the world”.

If there isn’t a truly Islamic State today, whose fault is that?

Thanks
Nimrod
 
Ähmed said:
I saw an innocent palestinian child being used as a sheild. What did you see?
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I saw a not-so-innocent teeny tied up on a car. I'm pretty sure, he smashed again stones at the soldiers, that's why they put him out.
Where is the proove of the human shield?
C'mon, this makes me laugh !
 
HRW's report: Fatal Strikes -- Israel’s Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon

Summary

Since the start of the conflict, Israeli forces have consistently launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military gain but excessive civilian cost. In dozens of attacks, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some cases, the timing and intensity of the attack, the absence of a military target, as well as return strikes on rescuers, suggest that Israeli forces deliberately targeted civilians.

The Israeli government claims that it targets only Hezbollah, and that fighters from the group are using civilians as human shields, thereby placing them at risk. Human Rights Watch found no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack. Hezbollah occasionally did store weapons in or near civilian homes and fighters placed rocket launchers within populated areas or near U.N. observers, which are serious violations of the laws of war because they violate the duty to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. However, those cases do not justify the IDF’s extensive use of indiscriminate force which has cost so many civilian lives. In none of the cases of civilian deaths documented in this report is there evidence to suggest that Hezbollah forces or weapons were in or near the area that the IDF targeted during or just prior to the attack.
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guyabano said:
I saw a not-so-innocent teeny tied up on a car. I'm pretty sure, he smashed again stones at the soldiers, that's why they put him out.
Where is the proove of the human shield?
C'mon, this makes me laugh !
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Where is the proof that he was smashing stones at the soldiers, as you put it?
 
hmmmm most non believers here make me laugh...... because they claim to be for peace, and to be neutral...but yet alwasy in thier words they always call Hebollah cowards and never call israel anything. They claim that Hezbollah hides among civilians, but never ask the question as to why there are many civiliaNs dead and hardly any Hezbolah. They claim that Hezbollah fire rockets from civilian villiages, but they dont see that Haifa has military bases within it.
They say that the muslims are one sided and yet they overlook the obvious.

Even in the picture..they claim that the "teenie" deserved to be there cause he was probaly throwing stones...but was he in israel throwing stones? or was he in palestine throwing stones trying to defend his country/family/ honor?
Is the material the tank is made of soo brittle/fragile that small stones would damage it? Its seems so according to some "neutral" ppl here.
hmmmm...i gues to the neutral ppl the material the boys and girls are made out of can withstand armour piercing bullets.
 
Muezzin said:
Where is the proof that he was smashing stones at the soldiers, as you put it?
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oh good, one ! Agree with you ! So finally, what do we see? A young teenie sitting on the hood of a jeep doing nothing !

Well, voilà, now we're getting somewhere! So please no more stories about "human shield" bogus stories !
 
Shovrim Shtika

Breaking the Silence

During our combat service we’ve handled many different missions. We have one mission left: to talk, tell and not keep anything hidden.

“Breaking The Silence” (“Shovrim Shtika” in Hebrew) should serve as a warning sign to Israeli society. We are alerting about irreversible corruption.

Targeting the Children

We took up positions of ‘Straw Widow’ (a disguised ambush). We were told that this ‘Straw Widow’ was against armed people and against people climbing on our armed vehicles. Our APCs (armed personnel carriers) were cruising 24 hours a day close to buildings (in Jenin), waiting for kids to climb on them, trying to dislodge the top -mounted MG (machine gun) and to shoot them. We had fixed positions inside Jenin’s casbah, the APCs were on the streets, below us. They were moving continuously.

We were expressly told that we were just waiting for someone to climb on an APC, and ordered to shoot to kill. We quickly understood that we weren’t expected to deal with armed people as no armed Palestinian would roam the streets with so many APCs around. They (our authorities) were looking for children or plain people daring to climb on an APC or on any other armored vehicle. We understood that from the talks with our officers.

After a day or two, a 12-year old kid climbed on one of the APCs. There were lots of guesses about his age. First they said he was 8, later, that he was 12. I don’t know. In any case he climbed on an APC and one of our sharpshooters killed him. I already mentioned, we were looking for kids. The neighboring company also had an incident with a kid or teenager, climbing an APC, who was also killed. Some of us said that this whole operation was unnecessary as its purpose was to kill kids, while others said that it was very good.
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No offense, but organizations with an agenda usually aren't the best sources for this sort of information.
 
So Israeli soldiers are liars? Is that it Keltoi

Does the IDF have an agenda? Why do you believe the IDF when they say they are shooting at Hezbollah rather than bridges, cars filled with civilians fleeing as per instructions, aid convoys, milk factories, petrol stations, etc.

They hit a UN post! Did they think Hezbollah were inside? That Hezbollah had hidden rockets there? No. Hezbollah had been in the area hours before. So they shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. And shelled it. (14 times).

And then dropped a precision guided bomb on it.
And that after having been in contact with the UN post, and after having given assurances that the bombardment would stop. But it didn't stop even then! They shelled the UN rescue team.

But the IDF is trustworthy. Shovrim Shtika is not. That's your view?
 
Kidman said:
I don't exclude the possibility, but I agree with Hezbollah 100% with what they are doing and how they are handling things... I couldn't have run it better myself... I believe they are truely following the words of Allah and Allah is proud of their courage.

Kidman
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So if you were incharge, you would kill as many innocent people or more?

Subhan'allah.
 
This is ironic..

..actually, this is simply sad, and pathetic.

I hear alot of "Bida'h!" on this forum, when a Pin drops, the self-righteous people here (Even some Mods) jump up and shout "INNOVATION!"

But when it comes to issues such as these,.. what happens? They either shut up, or they show their Unislamic Side.

What does hezballah do? They are doing exactly what israel is doing, they are just as bad as Israel is.

Is it a Prophetic teaching? Did the ProphetS teach us to harm our 'enemies' in such ways? to hurt them more than they've hurt us?

And what is really PATHETIC is that alot of muslims (yes, alot of the muslims in this forum as well) side with Hezballah simply because they are Muslims.

Islam is NOT a TRIBE! The day i accepted Islam, i did not join a tribe. I accepted a Religon which stood for the truth, a religon which sided with good (which isnt present on EITHER side in this situation) and avoids the bad.

I am sorry if any of this offends anyone, but i choose to side with the Truth, with the Muslims or Without the Muslims. Too many muslims out there are Misrepresenting islam. Unfortunetly, some of you are one of them.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammed s.a.w, the Final prophet, his mission was to Establish Islam and remove Ignorance, but sadly alot of Muslims are accepting Ignorance as a part of Islam.

Purify your thoughts, purify your heart.

Follow islam, not whatever the hell you're following that is clouding your judgement. Stop being such proud people.

Simply Pathetic.
 
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SirZubair said:
So if you were incharge, you would kill as many innocent people or more?

Subhan'allah.
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I would have avoided killing innocent people, as Hezbollah tried to do... but at the same time I would be forced to shoot rockets into Israel, as Hezbollah did.

What would you have done? Just watch your family members get massicred?

Kidman
 
ou would have avoided killing innocent people and you woud shoot rockets into Israel civilian areas.
Good!
 
SirZubair said:
But when it comes to issues such as these,.. what happens? They either shut up, or they show their Unislamic Side.
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Is it unislamic to help Muslims around the world??? What is unislamic about that? I forgot the exact quote in the Quran, but it says something like ' how can you sleep well at night knowing your muslim brother someplace else is in pain?'

What does hezballah do? They are doing exactly what israel is doing, they are just as bad as Israel is.
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They are not doing anything like what Israel is doing... they want to fight military to military... and not involve civilians... Sayed Hasan has said this many times in his speaches. The only reason they shot rockets into Israel was because they had no other means to fight against Israels air raids. Also, they places they shot their rockets were already evacuated, except the few that didn't want to leave their homes... and even those people knew the timings that Hezbollah's rockets would hit, so they would take cover underground during those times....

Don't compare to Isreal, who bombed round the clock, people not knowing who or where they were going to hit, killing over 1,000 civilians of which 1/3 were children!!!

Is it a Prophetic teaching? Did the ProphetS teach us to harm our 'enemies' in such ways? to hurt them more than they've hurt us?
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The Prophet taught us to protect our Muslim brothers and Sisters. Hurt them more than they've hurt us??? who are you talking about? am i lost?

And what is really PATHETIC is that alot of muslims (yes, alot of the muslims in this forum as well) side with Hezballah simply because they are Muslims.
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I side with Hezbollah because I believe they are true followers to the Prophet and his Teachings... and they are the only ones standing up to the racist, oppressionist Israelis. These people are harming Muslims everyday... and you don't do anything... but when a group like Hezbollah comes along to stop the madness you say bad things about them??????

Our beloved Prophet Muhammed s.a.w, the Final prophet, his mission was to Establish Islam and remove Ignorance, but sadly alot of Muslims are accepting Ignorance as a part of Islam.
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I agree, please learn more about Hezbollah before you talk bad about them. And when in doubt you are to give them benefit of the doubt until you learn about them and know what they are fighting for.

Woww... i still can't believe people are blaming Hezbollah for them standing up to oppressors... here, watch this bro... just saw this today, thought it was a good watch...

http://dl1.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjwu7AY5jg/qXFfv3g0BBf6.wmv


Kidman
 
wilberhum said:
ou would have avoided killing innocent people and you woud shoot rockets into Israel civilian areas.
Good!
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no, i would just sit on my butt all day and watch my family get bombed one by one.

Shooting the rockets into Israel was only a way to show them that the Hezbollah is still there, and strong... If they didn't then Israel would look as if they are doing good, and people would think they are actually killing the Hezbollah in all the air raids they do on civilians... but this way, people are like "ok, your killing a bunch of civilians and no Hezbollah, and Hezbollah is still firing rockets" which forces Israel to come into Lebanon on ground, then they can fight military to military. Exactly what Hezbollah wanted.

If you don't understand psychological warfare then please stop putting the blame on what is a right action.

Kidman
 
wilberhum said:
So much better than peace. Who in there right mind would want peace.
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If there was peace Hezbollah wouldn't have a need to exist.

"wilberhum: Of course, who else would want to kill the Israeli's?"

"Kidman: if the Isreali's would stop killing people, then people wouldn't hate them so much."

"wilberhum: If people wouldn't hate them so much, then they would stop killing people."

"kidman: the only reason people hate them is because of their racist views and violent means"

and on and on and on... lol... I can have this argument with myself... i already know what your going to say... i guess it comes down to who you believe is justified in their actions and who is not... who is protecting and who is attacking.

Kidman
 
Kidman, habib, inshort, i am not against what hezballah is trying to achieve.

I am against the way they are going about it.
 
SirZubair said:
Kidman, habib, inshort, i am not against what hezballah is trying to achieve.

I am against the way they are going about it.
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Ok... I respect that answer. But what other means are there?

For over 25 years now they have been trying to get the Sheeba Farms back by negotiations with the U.N and so forth, and they ended up taking Israel's side... saying that the Sheeba Farms was part of Syria and Israel took it during the 6 day war... but when you ask anyone in Syria... you look who's still living on the land (lebanese citizens)... and if you look at any dated map you will see it was Lebanon's land.

Then you have the Lebanese Prisoners. They have been asking for them back, some of the prisoners have been there for over 25 years in Israeli Prisons. Hezbollah asked and waited, peacefully for many many years... Israel continues advancing into Lebanon from time to time, and even continues taking civilians and throwing them in their prisons.

If you want refrences i can get them.

What other means do they have? Last time Israel came across the border, they took them prisoners and was about to make indirect negotiations and got some of their prisoners free, but not all... and still not the land.

Even last year Israel went into Lebanon and took a lebanese fisherman prisoner, w/out a trial.

Then, on top of that, the way the Israelis are treating our Palestinian brothers on a daily basis... that is horrible... no human should ever suffer in that way, ever.

Now for the options:
1. negotiating: Tried that, does not work. Israel does not talk to Hezbollah and does not listen to U.N when they are told to do something

2. Fight back: With Jihad rules applied, meaning to attack those who are attacking you.. leaving innocent people out of it to the best of your ability.

*The took soldiers, they didn't take innocent civilians. They kept them in a safe place -> promised by Sayed Hasan... Wanted Indirect negotiations with Israel for the exchange of prisoners...

Sorry for going off on you before bro...

Kidman
 

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