The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

[HeiGou]

The law of paedophilia is a western enforced.

Why simply becasue there are men in the west that abuse children.
The Prophet Muhammad saw married the Lady Aisha..

A large difference,,married...
While the west recognized that many of it people take for granted the loose society it is in and abuse children,even their own....
Thus the reason for the law.

take for exaple the latest case of a westerner being charged with sexual abuse of young girls in asia.Ziggy is it...
He had his way with the children,changing partners every so often...

Just out of curiousity, are you taking the position that crime is a social construct? That is, if society does not define a certain behaviour as illegal, there is no crime? Would Garry Glitter really have made the world a better place if he had married any of the girls he abused?

Look I am happy to accept Islam has Islamic law. But if you think that it is better to criticise the West for not legalising such behaviour then we will have to disagree.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

I take there is no one on here with the knowledge to answer this question?

brother,

You'll have to look it up if you want to confirm it for certain.

 

[Plato]

Re: islam enemies

Here's my challenge to you. Pick one specific issue that you wish to discuss, create a topic for it in the appropriate section, and we'll discuss it inshaa'Allah. You'll find that if we discuss the arguments one-by-one it exposes their invalidity and weakness.

i have read their thread, the thread here, and went to wikipedia to find more sources about it.

its not that simple issue i see. in wikipedia the say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty
which says basicly that statistcly only afro amarican womans might reach puberty when they are 9 years and 10 months old. Ok, so it is possible to reach puberty at that age, but extremly rare.
the also show freak cases:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina

i see that many of you are calling me to calm down, and to be carefull with what i read. but i must check diferent sources, pro and against, this is what i allways do.

i understand that publicity should not be given to those sites. but if we provide both alternatives, people can decide for themselfs. this can only make us stronger on this word jihad! ... or not. i am not sure anymore.

i must think a while. goodbye.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: islam enemies

i have read their thread, the thread here, and went to wikipedia to find more sources about it.

Since I have established my argument in this thread on the basis of evidence from medical encyclopaedia, any point from a source like wikipedia becomes meaningless. It is normal for the age of maturity to differ amongst different ethnic groups and different climates.

Puberty normally occurs between 13 and 15 years old in boys, and between 9 and 16 years old in girls. (Medline Plus Medical Encyclopaedia)

In healthy girls living in a temperate climate, the earliest sign of puberty occurs at a mean age of 10.6 years (standard deviation of 1.2 years), whereas, in boys, testicular growth begins at a mean age of 11.8, with a standard deviation of one year. The average age of menstruation is 13.5 years (range, 9–17 years). (Britannica 75999)​

And the evidence I produced showed that such marriages were customary at that time.

Regards

 

[- Qatada -]

The Marriage of Aa'isha and Muhammad (pbuh) - Beautiful Refutation by Yusuf Estes

The Marriage of Aa'isha and Muhammad (peace be upon him) - Beautiful Refutation by Yusuf Estes.




[media]http://kalamullah.com/Yusuf%20Estes/Ayeshas%20Marraige.mp3[/media]


Download Link [Right Click - Save Target As/Save Link As]:

http://kalamullah.com/Yusuf Estes/Ayeshas Marraige.mp3



http://kalamullah.com/yusuf-estes.html
​

 

[chris4336]

Aisha Again

Hello all. I see that all the threads on Aisha’s marriage are closed, so I am starting this one because I feel that I have something new to add to the argument. In the last thread Ansar challenged those who think sexual relations for a girl of the age of 9 is wrong to provide medical evidence. Well I did just a really quick search of medical literature, and found that the common medical view is that early pregnancy (a direct consequence of early sex) is damaging for the women involved.



The authors of this article from the World Health Organization came to this conclusion:
Adolescent girls who delay marriage and childbearing benefit by completing their own growth first. They avoid putting themselves and their babies
at risk of nutritional deprivation.
http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/towards_adulthood/7.pdf

Women of young maternal age (10-13 years) are approximately 2.5 times more likely to have a low birthweight infant and 3.4 times more likely to have a preterm birth than women of "prime" childbearing age
Journal of Adolescent Health. 1997 Mar;20(3):187-97.

Adolescent growth in girls less than 16 years who have a child nearly stops, even if nutrition is good. Maternal mortality among adolescents is higher than it is among women aged 20-30. Maternal morbidity is also higher in girls aged 15-19. The main pregnancy complications are severe anemia, renal complications, eclampsia, pre-eclampsia, and labor complications (e.g., vesico-vaginal or recto-vaginal fistulas). They are most common in the youngest adolescents.Dev Sante. (a French medical journal) 1992;(98):23-5.

…young still-growing women appeared not to mobilize fat reserves late in pregnancy to enhance fetal growth, apparently reserving them instead for their own continued development.
America Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1994 Aug;60(2):183-8.


So I don't think its an very outrageous claim to say that having sex with a younger women even if she has reached puberty can have very damaging consequences for her. Certainly a Prophet of God would have known these adverse consequences, even if it was acceptable behavior at the time? Now, I would understand as you said on the last thread that this situation might have been limited to the Prophet for certain reasons. But my questions then are:
1. Can you prove that this behavior was meant to be limited to this specific situation?
2. How can you get the message to the Muslim community that even though it was done by the Prophet, this type of behavior can be damaging to young women today?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: Aisha Again

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)

Listen to the holy Quran---the Final Testament
Recitation of Sura Fathiha by Shiekh Saad Al-Ghamdhi of Saudi Arabia
http://www.islamworld.net/fathiha.au


&&&


A 9-year old Thai girl gave birth:

Back to Prophet Muhammad (p)was not a Child Molester!

You will also see proofs from Jewish and Christian resources that Mary (Jesus' mother) peace be upon her got pregnant at the age of 12.

Hello all. ..... But my questions then are:
1. Can you prove that this behavior was meant to be limited to this specific situation?

2. How can you get the message to the Muslim community that even though it was done by the Prophet, this type of behavior can be damaging to young women today?

Firstly , age of Mother Aisha (ra ) is disputed ....she could be 17.

2nd. She was a Qurani Hafiz....a great teacher. She taught many hadith. Her life is a great example that how a Muslim woman can be a great learner , teacher etc.

Many companions of the last Prophet (p) also asked her many questions. It's a clear sign that her early marriage ( if indeed she was 9 ) did not harm her in any way.

In the west , young girls are enjoying sex with unlimited partners.....no one bothers. It surprises me a lot that why a happy marriage that took more than a thousand years ago still arises so many questions ???

It's not compulsory for any parent to arrange early marriage of their daughter . Moreover , by man made law it's prohibited to arrange early marriage though girls in the west are enjoying pre-marriage sex .

U may visit these links :




Addressing Misconceptions about Prophet’s Marriage to `Aisha (ra)

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=63495

Can a woman be forced into marriage in Islam?

http://www.answering-christianity.com/




The Young Marriage of `Âishah(R)
http://www.alinaam.org.za/index.html

http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/frq/Aisha.htm

http://filebox.vt.edu/users/oraja/marriage.html


http://www.anwary-islam.com/index.htm





CONDENSED:

[InAuthentic]



3. A girl becomes a woman when she begins her menstruation cycle.

4. The significance of menstruation that anyone with the slightest familiarity with physiology will tell you is that it is a sign that the girl is being prepared to become a mother.

5. Women reach puberty at different ages ranging from 8-12 years old depending on genetics, race and environment.


6. According to Hâ-Talmûd Hâ-Bavlî, which the Jews regard as their "oral Torah", Sanhedrin 76b clearly states that it is preferable that a woman be married when she has her first menses




http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm

My response to the "Child Molester" lie against our beloved Prophet, Muhammad peace be upon him:

The sections of this article are:

1- Introduction.

- Child brides as young as 8 were common, not exceptions, among the Byzantine emperors and nobility.



- A picture of a 9-year old girl giving birth in Thailand.
- 12-year old in Romania getting married.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: Aisha Again

Firstly , age of Mother Aisha (ra ) is disputed ....she could be 17.

There is no difference of opinion on her age. She was 6 when she was married and 9 when the marriage was consumated.

Bukhari - Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:


Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

​

Bukhari is the most authentic book after the Quran. His marriage to Aisha was one of the greatest blessings upon this Ummah because due to her, we learned so much about the life of the Messenger. She is the 4th highest narrator of Ahadith. She had the mind of a scholor and due to this marriage we know the much about the life of the Messenger at home. And this was a divinely inspired Marriage.

Bukhari - Volume 5, Book 58, Number 235:

Narrated 'Aisha:
That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done."​

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

I am not arguing that menstruation shows a woman is physically prepared to have a child. I also never said that I accept the fact that many young girls in the West had multiple sexual partners. And finally, I really don't care what was acceptable in Bibical times, the claim made by Muslims is that the teachings of the Prophet are acceptable in all times.

But the majority of medical evidence today shows that pregnancy at a young age can be very harmful to the woman. Even if she has reached her first menstral period. Do you agree with this? I have shared only a sampling, but maybe I can look up some more or some other people can look up some more.

Even though she can have a baby this does not mean this won't cause her harm. The human body is capable of a lot of things, but this does not mean these things will not cause us harm.

I agree that it was not harmful to Aisha. Maybe she was happy and physically unharmed - just like not everyone who smokes will get lung cancer. But shouldn't we take steps to eliminate smoking?

EDIT: If it is prohibited by man made law shouldn't it have been prohibited by religious law that claims to cover all aspects of one's life?

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Maybe I am not making myself clear. I really don't have much of a problem with Aisha's marriage to the Prophet - its clear (to Muslims) that God told him to do it, that she was unharmed, and that there was a specific reason for this marriage and consummation at such a young age.

The problem is that this behavior is acceptable in the religion for any man. Under Islamic law any 50 year old man can marry and have sex with any 9, 8, or 7 year old as long as she has her period, correct? This is contradictory to all the medical literature which states that pregnancy at a young age can be very harmful for a woman.

 

[Umar001]

Re: Aisha Again

Well it will take time to read through things, what I have understood is not that it is very harmful, rather that it may have some disadvantages, at the same time some of those can be combated.

I need to read into it more.

Eesa.

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Well if it has some disadvatages, what are the advantages? Would you completely miss out on all the adavantages if you waited, lets say 2 years after her first period to have sex with her?

EDIT: I'm not trying to attack Islam, I'm just trying to see what steps Islam takes to protect young girls who might suffer the medical consequences of such marriages. I think it would be foolish to say that Muslims men in the world are not using this rule because of their desires to have sex with virgins, at the expense of the health and well being of these girls.

 

[YusufNoor]

Re: Aisha Again



there are some Jewish midrash that say Isaac's wife was 6 when married.

would that make you question Christianty?

also, somewhere here, there's a link to a Yusuf Estes lecture on the topic...

 

[Angelzz]

Re: Aisha Again

Salaam Alaykum

My understanding is that the girls parents would still need to approve of the marriage - so question becomes which parent these days will be approving a marriage for someone that young ? unless of course - poverty or the like are forcing their hand?

 

[Umar001]

Re: Aisha Again

there are some Jewish midrash that say Isaac's wife was 6 when married.

would that make you question Christianty?

also, somewhere here, there's a link to a Yusuf Estes lecture on the topic...

I think it is very very important for Muslims not to kind of point the finger, if a person asks about something with regards to Islaam, and they want to know the Islamic position and how Islaam justifies things, in alot, not all, but alot of cases all that saying 'Chrsitianity says ...' or 'in the west they do this..' will only give them impression that Muslims dont have an answer.

Salaam Alaykum

My understanding is that the girls parents would still need to approve of the marriage - so question becomes which parent these days will be approving a marriage for someone that young ? unless of course - poverty or the like are forcing their hand?

Wa Aleykum Salam,

I think that is a very crucial part of it too, the girl and the parents both need to approve, thats a step there.

Well if it has some disadvatages, what are the advantages? Would you completely miss out on all the adavantages if you waited, lets say 2 years after her first period to have sex with her?

EDIT: I'm not trying to attack Islam, I'm just trying to see what steps Islam takes to protect young girls who might suffer the medical consequences of such marriages. I think it would be foolish to say that Muslims men in the world are not using this rule because of their desires to have sex with virgins, at the expense of the health and well being of these girls.

I think those questions are valid, and they are food for thought and something to research. I dont think you'd completly miss out on all the possabilities as such.

For me Chris, I need to read more, because I have read the link you gave but I have not read the other sources you quoted from, so if you know of any online places for those then please provide the links.

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Yeah, I've listened the Yusuf lecture, but there is not so much said about the medical consequences these marriages can have on young woman. Maybe the prophet and Aisha were happy but does that mean that lots of other girls will not be/have not been harmed by this ruling?

Again, I'm not really talking about Christianity, and I'm not using Christianity as a basis to judge other religions.
EDIT: Yes thank you Eesa

I think this ruling most affects poor girls, who have no other options? Parents might be more inclined to approve the marriage so that another man can help pay for their daughter?

And my question is, since most of you I think agree that 9 year olds shoud probably not be having sex, why is that rule not in the religion? Why is it left up to the parents/society to decide when Islam supposedly covers all aspects of life?

 

[Umar001]

Re: Aisha Again

And my question is, since most of you I think agree that 9 year olds shoud probably not be having sex, why is that rule not in the religion? Why is it left up to the parents/society to decide when Islam supposedly covers all aspects of life?

I dont know who thinks that.

From my view, the choice of when the girl marries is left to the girl and the parents, why, because every girl is different, for example, Islam from my understanding gave a general view, and then from there each case is left for those who know best, i.e. the girl the parents and so forth.

For example, if there was an 17 year old who had for some reason not got to puberty then it would be immoral for guys to try and sleep with her. I don't think it's the age that's a problem, I think it's the girl, the girl is different in different cases and that is how it should been seen, judged by parents and the girl.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Sure that makes sense and I see your point. I agree that it should not be based so much on age as physical development.

I think today Islams "general view" on this situation is used to exploit many young woman, would you agree? Shouldn't Islamic law help to protect these girls? I really don't blame the Muslim men who are doing it, they are just trying to do the same as their prophet did. But since its generally the consensus in medical communities that it is harmful to young women to be pregnant at a young age, why didn't Islam do more to prevent this?

Do you see what I mean? Okay, I guess getting to the heart of it, what bothers me most about Islamic law is that it gives men so much opportunity to abuse it. Its the same as the polygamy thing, maybe it was a great blessing in the time of the prophet, but now its a man's responsibility not to abuse it.

That is the same with this ruling. It might have been great for the relationship between the prophet and Aisha. But now a 50 year old man can propose to 9 year old girl becauase he wants to have sex with a virign. And if she is poor and her parents really encourage this marriage she'll agree. Who is being exploited in this situation and what does Islamic law do to stop it? In my mind the first answer is obviously "the young girl" and the second answer is "nothing"

 

[Umar001]

Re: Aisha Again

Sure that makes sense and I see your point. I agree that it should not be based so much on age as physical development.

Am glad we agree on something

I think today Islams "general view" on this situation is used to exploit many young woman, would you agree? Shouldn't Islamic law help to protect these girls?

I agree to an extent. I think the Islamic law does help the young women, I think that the actions put in place are very definetive in helping, i.e. the girl chosing herself and women not being forced into things.

I will say one thing, I remember a passage from the Bible, the concept is something that I do like, it went something like this "John came not eating and drinking and people called him devil possed or a demon, I came eating and drinking and you all cal me a glutton and drunkyard" I don't know if that makes sense, but in honesty, i think that no matter what Islam taught people would come up with question and say things, not that I don't think your view is valid though.

I really don't blame the Muslim men who are doing it, they are just trying to do the same as their prophet did.

Well not neccesarily, there are more women married by the Prophet who were over 16 and 18 why not then do that, I'm not saying their wrong to do what they do, but I also don't think its just about them following the prophet, for if that was the case, then there wouldn't be much problems of the problems you have brought up.

But since its generally the consensus in medical communities that it is harmful to young women to be pregnant at a young age, why didn't Islam do more to prevent this?

Let me ask you, what is the medical community saying is the problem? What is it that happens when women have young pregnencies and is it all women? That is something to look at.

Do you see what I mean? Okay, I guess getting to the heart of it, what bothers me most about Islamic law is that it gives men so much opportunity to abuse it. Its the same as the polygamy thing, maybe it was a great blessing in the time of the prophet, but now its a man's responsibility not to abuse it.

I understand your view, I also have some on the other side:

• The fact that men cannot marry women unless they agree to the lady's personal set gifts, for example, a young guy wants to get married, but he can't because alot of the women have put the dowry up to such a level that he cannot afford it, it is their right to do so, but poor guy, some may argue that Allah should have set a limit.

• The fact that women can live off the guy and that they can work or not and do anything they wont as long as it's Islamic, the guy has to provide the wife with the essential and she does not have to put anything into that, she can work and put her money on herself and not worry about anything, some may argue that, "fair enough she shouldn't have to put 50% because she also looks after the kids and wil be pregnent, but for the other times then she should put 25% or something in when she is not pregnent or nursing"

And there are many things like that, I don't think its one sided.

And if she is poor and her parents really encourage this marriage she'll agree. Who is being exploited in this situation and what does Islamic law do to stop it? In my mind the first answer is obviously "the young girl" and the second answer is "nothing"

Let me ask something, if she is poor and the parents only agree because of that, then imagine that the marriage option was not there, what would they do? The answer is found in many streets of africa, you only have to look at the amount of 12 year old prostitues! I rather have my daughter married than a prostitue, now I don't say that that is the only reason for it, but I am glad islam would allow it because I rather that then my daughter on the streets if those were the two only option some people face.

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Eeas - These are really great points. I was thinking to myself that someone could argue that the fact that men have to work really hard while women just stay in the house watching TV is oppressive to men.

Awhile back I saw this article in the NY Times and it really had an impact on me:

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2006/07/06/magazine/20060709_BRIDES_SLIDESHOW_1.html

Now I understand your point that these conditions are the result of poverty. So we should rightly blame the poverty that forced these girls into this situation. Do you feel sorry for these girls at all? And do you wish that maybe Islam had something to protect them?

I guess the issue that I wasn't looking at was that given the option between life on the street and prostitution and marrying an older man at 9, clearly the older man would be the lesser of two evils. We don't often make these decisions in the west, thank god, and they are very hard ones to look at. But are these really the only options God can offer these girls?