Wife beating?

[Umar001]

Um Chris, well I dont think that will work because there will be billions of other factors, specifically cultural factors that will influence the rate.

You have to assume that both societies were identical and the only thing that differed between then was the teaching that hitting the wife is not allowed for the comparision to be of any value...

On top of that you'd have to look at the fact that many would be unreported if they were believed to be justified through religion.

Also that there is no Muslim State, only countries which have some Muslim like laws.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

from chris's post i gathered that jelousy is the root cause of wife beating. Honestly just cover up, try your best to not attract attention from men (get the husband whos patience is obviously low to practise islam so that he understands that how a wife should be treated) and its all good

 

[Malaikah]

^I dont think jealousy is so much the cause, it more of a mix of short tempers and feeling of dominance which leads to arrogance, and just the fact that he has the pwoer to over power her... etc.. a mix of things, jealousy I guess might come into it but I wouldnt say it is the root cause.

 

[Umar001]

Eesa - I see your points but you have to understand that if this religion is from God I expect it to be better than "Good." I expect it to be perfect, to provide a better system of life than I could ever have imagined. There are many many many aspects of Islam that are great. I know I am very critical of Islam on these boards but I truly wouldn't be here if I thought it was all bad.

Noone is debating that Islam should be perfect. What I am saying is that, Islam is, but no matter how perfect something is people will always try to abuse it, and that is the test of this life for others.

I just can't help but wonder if the benefit of allowing this "toothbrush" beating to save a marriage is worth the risk that it will be very easily misinterpreted and abused?

Well not really, because if you read at the most predomenant scholars it is agreed, even amongst them, I think, ask, that the most that can be done is a light tap that will leave no marks and that it should not be done out of anger and stress and that it should only be done rarely and many conditions.

So thats what this verse has been seen by even those scholars who agree that it means beat, this is the type of beating that those scholars have put, now, why are we going to say 'well tht Hamza says that he can beat his wife black and blue' anyone can interpret anything the way they want, but the fact that Scholars, even for those that believe in beating have said this beating has so and so conditions shows us that this verse cannot be abused or misinterpreted!

And isn't that something the all-knowing creator would have taken into account when he made this ruling? Again like in polygamy it comes down to the faith in a higher power that knows us better than we know ourselves.

Again, I have said above, interpretation is to be done by someone of understanding, and when you look at the scholars, none of them say, 'you can beat the wife black and blue, you can hit her if she doesnt cook your meal, you can degrade her and hit her for fun' rather Chris, the scholars have said that this verse means such and such and there are conditions for this.

Now thats it, no room for people to come and say 'I acn beat the crap out of my wife Islam allows me'

This is like those people that say 'Islam allows anal sex with the wife because when the gay guys came to Lot he tried to plead that they marry his daughters whilst Lot knew which area ofthe body the men wanted, so anal is allowed' Totally Rubbish.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^I dont think jealousy is so much the cause, it more of a mix of short tempers and feeling of dominance which leads to arrogance, and just the fact that he has the pwoer to over power her... etc.. a mix of things, jealousy I guess might come into it but I wouldnt say it is the root cause.

ye i guess thats true. Anyway in this country wife beating doesnt seem to occur anymore (in UK i mean), i know lots of wives who are completely and hundred percent dominating their husbands. honestly and if you want to know how then its with tears, not beatings...

 

[chris4336]

Listen the toothbrush ruling is great really. If you assume that all 1 billion Muslims in the world are going to come online and read it, or they are going to go the Mosque and taught it correctly. Because if they are only going to read in Quran its clear they could get the idea that its okay to physically abuse you wife.

I would prefer the rule said "No hitting your wife." This does not require a whole page of Hadiths to explain and does not get misinterpreted. But I guess Muslims will say the many benefits of tapping you wife with a toothbrush necessitate a different ruling.

 

[chris4336]

Now heres something not a lot of peple know...a woman has permission to take miswaak and poke her husband with it too... for very specific reasons.

Can someone please confirm this because that makes it a very different issue

I think you have a very good point with the prayers.

Again I will ask do you guys think this ruling is effective? Have you ever seen a women behaving badly enough to warrant this "beating" change her behavior after being hit with a toothbrush?

 

[Malaikah]

Listen the toothbrush ruling is great really. If you assume that all 1 billion Muslims in the world are going to come online and read it, or they are going to go the Mosque and taught it correctly. Because if they are only going to read in Quran its clear they could get the idea that its okay to physically abuse you wife.

But thats there own fault isn't it? If they choose to be ignorant then they are in the fault, it is not Islam's fault or God's fault.

Going to the mosque is compulsory for men, specifically attending the friday prayers, which includes a sermon. It is very likely that this topic is bought up.

Another thing, if they read the Quran then surely they would have come across the verses that talk about how the important it is to follow the sunnah of the prophet. Now the sunnah isnt in the Quran, its in the hadith, so a Muslim who reads the Quran with sincerity should know that he needs to read the interpreation of the Quran (based on the sunnah) to understand it properly.

Furthermore, if he did have this misconception it is very unlikely that he will 100% isolated from people how understand the proper ruling, so if he tries to beat his wife others will intervene and tell him this is haram.

If Muslims choose to remain ignorant, this is their own sin and they will be held accountable for that on the Day of Judgement, and it could also land them in hell.

I would prefer the rule said "No hitting your wife." This does not require a whole page of Hadiths to explain and does not get misinterpreted. But I guess Muslims will say the many benefits of tapping you wife with a toothbrush necessitate a different ruling.

It's not up to us to prefer anything of God's religion to be changed. To desire this is an act of kufr and leaves one outside the folds of Islam.

Just because we might not understand, that doesnt mean we have the right to reject it when we know that Islam is the right religion and is God's words.

Lastly, we can not look at people who do not bother to understadn Islam properly and say that such people are a limitation of Islam. This makes no sense.

Hope that helps.

 

[Malaikah]

Again I will ask do you guys think this ruling is effective? Have you ever seen a women behaving badly enough to warrant this "beating" change her behavior after being hit with a toothbrush?

Firstly, I dont know anyone that bad. Secondly, I have no business inside the marriage life of others. :uuh: Thats is their personaly domain. Lastly, such a thing has never happened with my parents alhamdulilah so I have no way of knowing.

In the case of the prophets wives, I only know of cases that it got to step two and by step two they were very sorry for what they did alhamdulilah.

Do I think it is effective? Yes for sure, because it makes the toothbrush the last resort after a whole bunch of other very effective methods, and at the same time eliminates violence.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam /peace to all;

the following answer is given by our revert sis




Obedience within Loving Marriages


AElfwine Mischler

• An American convert, has an M.A. in Linguistics and Teaching English as a Foreign Language, a B.A. in English, and an A.S. in Physics.


• She was raised as a Roman Catholic and attended Catholic schools. She embraced Islam in 1981 while studying for her Masters Degree.



Diane - United States


Title Obedience within Loving Marriages

Date 28/Dec/2002


Question Lately, I gained genuine interest in Islam. I know something is “true” about it… but…

I am scared to fail in establishing a nice warm family if I take any step further… So many things seem to be contradicting…

Why do I have to beat my child when he is 7? I don’t believe in beating in the first place… what about a 7 years old child?! How can a mother do that… or even a father??

Why do I have to “OBEY” my husband, while he wouldn’t obey me? And how come marital relation, which should be based on love, be depending on “obedience”?!What if I am not convinced with what he wants me to do? How come he has the right to – again – beat me??!!

How can someone love me, but orders me around and even beats me when he wishes?!

Is it true angels would curse me if I refuse to make love with him? What if I am not feeling well? What about him? What if he refuses to make love with me… don’t I have the same rights??

Is it true that my prayers would not be accepted if I fail to satisfy my husband’s desires? What if his desires are unpleasant?


Why is that big fuss about husband’s rights? What about rights of a wife?!


**

As-salaam `alaikum Dear Diane,

I’d like to know what you’ve been reading about Islam, because it does seem to me that you have some distorted ideas and I am concerned about the source. I hope they are not from books by Muslims!

First of all, I do not know of any source in Islam that says you “have to beat a child when he is seven”. The only hadith I know of is one that says to begin teaching the child to pray at seven, and if he/she doesn’t pray at ten, to hit him/her. The Arabic word daraba is better understood as “hit” than “beat” (repeated hard hitting, usually with something).

Early Muslim jurists told us that such hitting was to be so light as to not leave a mark. Also, we should follow the example of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), who was reported to have always corrected children with gentle words and to never have hit a child.

Allah orders us to live in peace and harmony with our spouses. In Surah 30, verse 21 He says:

*{And among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your [hearts]: verily in that are signs for those who reflect.}*

Also, He says in Surah 2, verse 187:
*{Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments…}*

Commentators on the Qur’an understand this to mean that husbands and wives are for mutual support, mutual comfort, and mutual protection.

You ask about obedience to the husband and his “right” to beat you. The answer is that he does not have the right to beat you! In fact, the one verse in the Qur’an that mentions this - Surah 4, verse 34 - has to be read in its entirety and understood in Arabic.

Islam prohibits men from hitting women, except in one very limited case when the wife is rebellious and disobedient - not when she disobeys one request or order - and only as a last resort. The husband should first admonish her, then abandon her bed if she continues to be rebellious, and only if those steps have failed “may be” hit, not beat, her. The earliest commentators understood that the hitting was to be light enough, not to leave a mark and should be done with nothing bigger than a miswak (tooth stick).

We also know from the hadiths and sirah (biography) of the prophet (pbuh) that he has always urged men not to abuse or hit their wives. In fact, he is known to have never hit his wives, servants, an animal, or “a thing”. And, he is the model we should emulate. For more about the issue of beating wives, please read the following:
Bonds of Love and Mercy

As for obedience, keep in mind, first of all, that you cannot look at one point in Islam without looking at other related points. Islam is a whole system.

While men and women have equal rights, those rights are not always identical. In marriage, the woman has the right to be financially supported and maintained. The husband has no right to any of her money. In return, the wife should obey her husband in things regarding the marriage - including whether she can work outside the house and who can visit in the house - but he has no say in how she invests or spends her own money as long as it is in a halal (Islamically legal) manner.

But, at the same time that she is to obey her husband, we are all told to conduct our affairs by mutual consultation, as the Qur’an states in Surah 42, verse 38:

*{And those who respond to their Lord and keep up prayer, and their rule is to take counsel among themselves, and who spend out of what We have given them.}*

So the husband should consult his wife on major decisions and take her opinion into consideration, but the ultimate decision is his, because finally there must be a decision-maker and head to this vital institution – the family.

There is a hadith that states that the prayers of three people will not be accepted [or raised to Heaven], one of whom is the woman whose husband is angry with, until he is satisfied. But, if we are in a loving marriage - which is what we should all strive for - a woman would rarely do something to anger her husband, and he would rarely retain his anger. Yet, if he really is unjust to her, another hadith tells us that the prayers of three people are always heard, one of whom is the person who has been dealt with unjustly.

So, you cannot take just one point without examining others. Husbands and wives should consult each other and try to compromise when they disagree. If a woman has to give in to her husband, sometimes because the final decision is his, she should do it willingly for the sake of Allah and to maintain peace in the family. It is also to be noted that if it turns out to be a bad decision, the responsibility is his!

This situation does not mean that the wife would be weak if she gives in. She has a different kind of strength, a “tensile” strength to bend rather than snap. And, if she does it for the sake of Allah, He will definitely make things easier for her. For more on these topics, please see:
Equal Rights for Women

A Man Should Respect His Spouse


Wife-Battering


Woman in Islam

Scope of Men’s Guardianship Over Women

As for the man and woman’s sexual rights, first of all remember that one of the main reasons for marriage is to give a halal (legal) outlet for our natural sexual urges. If a man or woman were to repeatedly refuse to fulfill the sexual needs of the spouse, this would tempt the spouse to seek satisfaction outside the marriage.

There is a hadith reported by Bukhari, which says that if a man asks his wife to bed and she refuses, the angels curse her till morning. However, the early commentators understood this to be only if he is upset with her for refusing. If she has a legitimate excuse of being tired or ill, he should be forgiving. Also, the prophet (pbuh) advised his followers to approach their wives with gentle words, caresses, etc. so that they would accept their advances, and also not to leave them until they [the wives] were also satisfied. For more on this, also read:

Does Islam Permit “Marital Rape”?

I hope that I have answered your questions satisfactorily. Loving marriages and warm families are certainly possible in Islam! In fact, they are the goal… This is because family is the basic unit of society and strong families make for a strong society.

Remember to look at Islam as a whole and not to focus on just one verse or hadith without seeing others related to the subject. Also, don’t judge Islam by what you see Muslims do, but by what the Qur’an and sunnah say they should do. May Allah guide you and us all to the truth!

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace to u & all;

I have another question for Muslims - What do you think of the effectiveness of this ruling? What I mean is - Have you ever seen a wife behaving extremely out of line and then completely change these behaviors because her husband tapped her with a toothbrush?

---to be honest , as i mentioned of few hot tempered , bad manners wives ....sometimes i think like this , they deserve beating ......ooopsss , i guess my comment may arises ur confusion more ....but believe me , some wives do provoke husbands a lot . I think, absence of tapping/ pushing , these wives are going really too far & that's bad for their life hereafter.

Personally, if my (future) husband even so much as raised his hand to me I would leave.

--- i know a husband who loved his wife a lot , had quarrel with his mom & dad several times on behalf of his dear wife. Last year , they seperated for few months. I wanted to set the problem .Asked the wife what went wrong ...her answer was, he slaaped me. I asked why ? answer , for nothing.

I said, look ,it's impossible ....u were sitting calmly & ur husband came & slapped u ...it's absurd. Now tell me the truth. Then she admitted that she called her husband ' son of a *****'. Now chris , can u blame a husband solely if he reacts after hearing these beautiful words ?


It's duty of a wife not to provoke husband that he can loose his temper ...yes , of course husband must not fall into the trap of wife.....but in some or many cases a wife must share some responsibility.

I m writing a quick reply . Chris , pl. don't let me confuse u. I will explain more Insha Allah tomorrow .

 

[One Man Army]

---to be honest , as i mentioned of few hot tempered , bad manners wives ....sometimes i think like this , they deserve beating ......ooopsss , i guess my comment may arises ur confusion more ....but believe me , some wives do provoke husbands a lot . I think, absence of tapping/ pushing , these wives are going really too far & that's bad for their life hereafter.

what kind of thing is that to say? that is such a steriotypical view. how can u judge that wives are bad mannored or what ever. ur just trying to justify that a man can hit her. ok, so what about a man that is rude to his wife??? shouldnt he recieve same punishment? personally i dont think that a woman should EVER have to be a victim of domestic violence of any sort. whether that includes a toothbrush or not.

 

[soulsociety]

Men and women aren't perfect and yes sometimes they do deserve a smack.

If a man hits his wife it's abuse. But if a woman hits her husband its comedy?

 

[Umar001]

personally i dont think that a woman should EVER have to be a victim of domestic violence of any sort. whether that includes a toothbrush or not.

Hi,

So let me ask you, according to you, a tap with a pen, that is not done in anger nor done from a bad temper, but done to cause the wife's attention to shift so that she might stop doing something deemed bad. Then thats domestic violence?

So if we havea child, and the child is doing something wrong, and the child is taken hold of to grab the childs attention to divert him or her from doing wrong then is that too child abuse?

Eesa

 

[chris4336]

Eesa - I just think you are walking a really fine line. You are right a light tap on the hand with a Pen is not bad. What about a light tap with your hand? What if its a little too hard? Do you know how to hit someone exactly hard enough that it will not leave a mark? What if it really hurts but doesn't leave a mark? Who is defining "rebellious" or "disobedient" behavior?

Its just easier to draw the line at no hitting period. It seems that is what most Muslims think as well, again except in very special circumstances. (I do not even want to get into Muslim Woman's comments that some women deserve a good smacking). And even in these circumstances I wonder how effective it is? If a women is being so outrageous that she deserves this toothbrush beating is it really going to change her mind?

Also do you know if the women can do this toothbrush hitting thing to man as someone suggested?

And I don't understand how you keep saying it cannot be out of anger? If the wife is being so outrageously disobedient, wouldn't the husband be angry?

 

[zanjabeela]

Eesa - I just think you are walking a really fine line. You are right a light tap on the hand with a Pen is not bad. What about a light tap with your hand? What if its a little too hard? Do you know how to hit someone exactly hard enough that it will not leave a mark? What if it really hurts but doesn't leave a mark? Who is defining "rebellious" or "disobedient" behavior?

Its just easier to draw the line at no hitting period. It seems that is what most Muslims think as well, again except in very special circumstances. (I do not even want to get into Muslim Woman's comments that some women deserve a good smacking). And even in these circumstances I wonder how effective it is? If a women is being so outrageous that she deserves this toothbrush beating is it really going to change her mind?

Also do you know if the women can do this toothbrush hitting thing to man as someone suggested?

And I don't understand how you keep saying it cannot be out of anger? If the wife is being so outrageously disobedient, wouldn't the husband be angry?

Responding in my limited way to the questions I bold-faced:

Yes, I think we all know how to hit just hard enough to get attention while being soft enough to not leave a mark. Don't we do this all the time with little babies who are trying to do something dangerous, light reach for the hot stove-top?

In a marriage, both partners would be defining all kinds of behavior. Why is that germaine to the discussion?

If you do it out of anger, it will more than likely be hard enough to leave a mark. Since he must wait till his anger has cooled down, he is not likely to beat the hell out of me with a toothbrush. So it becomes a non-issue. No anger = no hitting with the toothbrush/pen/feather/whatever.

Peace out.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace to all;

hope everybody is in good mind & health ....noboby beat wife ....yakkkk or nobody ( not only sister , brother too ) was beaten :uuh:



chris: [MAD]I do not even want to get into Muslim Woman's comments that some women deserve a good smacking). [/MAD]


---- ooopssss sorry sis if i upset u . Let me explain.

I saw so many programmes on media about how Muslim women are oppressed. I don't remember any single programme that says how Muslim women can be oppressors.



In a Muslim majority country , joint family is very common (I guess , it's rare in the west ). Normally son after getting married live with parent . Now a days, it's almost becoming impossible for any son to live with parents.


I know a widow mom who came to live with her married daughter as a paying guest ' cause her son left home with wife & it was not possible for that elderly lady to stay alone.

Yes , as a married woman , i do understand living with in-laws can create many problems ; but when mother is a widow & her all daughters are married & now she has only son to live with......it was a cruel act for them to leave home & left mom alone ( i m not sure if u can understand this situation as aged parent live alone in the west but fortunately in Asia we don't send our parents to old home ...they stay with family members ) .



in the case mentioned above , it was almost compulsory for a son & his wife to stay with the old mom & do as much as possible for her. It's for their own sakes....to please God Almighty & get rewards from Him on the Last Day. Instead they forced her to move to her daughter's home that is very unusual in a Muslim society.


I think, it's better to be a victim rather than an oppressor .



When i saw that old lady crying , i feared for the son......mom's each tear drops will certainly be heavy on him .


I went to a kid's birthday party where kid's mom scolded her husband in front of all guests....know why ? Because he forgot to buy the new film & she just got mad & complaining that how a bad father he is.....now how can she take photographs of her only son in his new dress ?

Many of us who had cameras assured her that we will take as much as photo she wants of the event , still it took almost one hour to make her calm. Just imagine , if a wife can scold husband so rudely in front of so many guests , then how she behaves with him when nobody in around ?



No , of course i don't think that husband should beat her mercilessly , but I regularly wonder that how he is he tolerating her ? Most probably , because of their only son , they are still married.



Another woman who wanted to divorce her husband but her sister-in-law did not support her returning back to parent's home ' cause it means her husband needs to look up the sister with her kid.



Those women who forced their husbands to give all money to them & not to spend money for his parent & bro , sis .. ...BBC, CNN , FoxNews don't represent these oppressor Muslim wives & their victim husbands.


Some women regularly blackmail ( not sure if this is the correct word ) husbands .... know how ? very easy ....she goes to her parent house & deprive her husband from conjugal life. In many cases , men find it hard to stay without wife for long & bring her back home & listen to her obediently that is harmful for their lives hereafter .



Pl. try to understand , Islam does not allow violence . Even in the battle field , if enemy wants to hear the words of God , Muslims must escort them .....so it's impossible that God allows husbands to beat wife mercilessly .




If some or many husbands do this crime , they are to blame for it ...pl. don't put blame on Islam.



I guess , u have already have a headache. So, bye for now.

******

Holy Quran:

Live with them on a footing of kindness and equity.

 

[chris4336]

Muslim Woman...I apologize if my comments seemed rude. It is just that in my country we are very careful to make sure a woman is never blamed for any abuse she experiences. Ideas like "she deserved it" or "why doesn't she just leave" only cause harm these women. However, I suppose that you were not discussing "abuse" but rather the implimentation of a specific Islamic ruling.

I really enjoyed your point about Muslim women being oppressors. In the Muslim country I am familiar with, many women demand excessively high dowries which prohibits lots of Muslim men from getting married, which is really sad I think. In the situations you gave it is sad, but if these men are being treated so badly, they always have the option of getting a divorce.

This might open up a whole other can of worms but in the verse regarding the "hitting" is the "if you fear disobedience" refering to Allah or the husband, or both? Becaue I have heard it argued both ways.

To be honest, this "issue" really doesn't bother me as much as some of the other ones (polygamy grrrrr). I still think its wrong to hit a women in any way for any reason. But since that is not the case in Islam, I can trust in some all knowing creator who understands the benefits of hitting women with toothbrushes far better than myself, and for this reason has permitted this very specific form of hitting.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Here's what I wrote earlier in this thread:

Coming to your specific question, you've mentioned another example of a verse anti-islamists try to take in isolation to malign in Islam. We see from the other Qur'anic verses and the Prophet's example that kind, compassionate and gentle treatment has been ordained. This verse speaks specifically of the case when there is deliberately nasty behaviour on the part of the wife which poses a threat to the marriage (the Prophet Muhammad pbuh defined the behaviour in question to be manifest indecency). And in such a case one is to use admonition and discussion as the primary method of seeking resolution, and after that seperation. The last method described here after the other methods is the use of light physical force, but never to the point of abuse or injury, nor when angry. The issue here is not punishing the wife at all, but rather to evoke recognition of the gravity of the situation. If Muslims followed the Qur'anic method of dispute resolution, they would never arrive at such a stage. And the wife has the opportunity to seek divorce at any stage in the matter. She should never stay in an abusive relationship and no one is allowed to force her to do so. The verse gives absolutely no license for wife abuse or domestic violence.​

Eesa - I just think you are walking a really fine line. You are right a light tap on the hand with a Pen is not bad. What about a light tap with your hand? What if its a little too hard? Do you know how to hit someone exactly hard enough that it will not leave a mark? What if it really hurts but doesn't leave a mark?
[...]Its just easier to draw the line at no hitting period.

Actually the same 'slippery-slope' argument can be applied to anything in this regard, irrespective of where you choose to draw the line. When does a spouse's playful shove become an aggressive push? When does an annoyed slap become an inappropriate smack? When does an exasperated grab become a threatening clutch? When does an unwanted pinch become a abusive squeeze?

What you must realize is that there is inherent subjectivity when it comes to physical contact and interactions amongst human beings. And most people have reasonable judgement; we're not robots or computers who need an 800 page programming of the exact parameters of appropriate contact, which will never be free of grey areas anyway. In your day to day interactions you need to be a judge on what kind of conduct is allowed. If someone acts excessively it is usually quite obvious, especially if the case winds up in court for domestic violence.

As Muslims we have the lofty standard of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to apply in all aspects of our lives and this is how his own wife described him:
`Âishah said: “Allah’s Messenger (peace be upon him) never once struck a servant of his nor a woman, nor did he strike anyone with his hand.” [Sahîh Muslim (2328), Sunan Abî Dâwûd (4786), Sunan Ibn Mâjah (1984), as quoted from Sunan Ibn Mâjah]

So even if you say 'no hitting period', the 'period' is only in your imagination since the grey areas continue forever and physical contact will still occur between couples; and when it is deemed excessive by one party it will be brought before the courts and the decision will be clear as will the punishment.

Who is defining "rebellious" or "disobedient" behavior?

The prophet peace be upon described it as manifest indecency - certainly not average behavior and hence a preclusion of spousal abuse.

If a women is being so outrageous that she deserves this toothbrush beating is it really going to change her mind?

Ibn Abbas's statement on the miswak is to emphasize the mildness of it and to remind the believers of the lofty standard of the Prophet pbuh which is to avoid any hitting.

Also do you know if the women can do this toothbrush hitting thing to man as someone suggested?

The Qur'anic verses go on to speak about the possibility of rebellious behavior on the part of the husband and point out mediation by a third party. The reason why the same steps are not profferred here is because a woman is usually not able to physically overpower her husband and such actions on her part against someone who is physically rebellious may only endanger her further and the Qur'an intends to protect women from harm and it intends to honor them.

And I don't understand how you keep saying it cannot be out of anger? If the wife is being so outrageously disobedient, wouldn't the husband be angry?

What is intended is that the hitting is not done out of anger since then self-control and caution is reduced and the possibility of harm is greater. But it does not mean the husband will be emotionally neutral, it just means he doesn't lose his temper and let his anger control his actions. Also, the fact that hitting in anger is prohibited significantly reduces the liklihood of hitting at all, and consequently if one was to actually follow the steps laid out in the Qur'an they wouldn't come to this problem in the first place.

Regards

 

[soulsociety]

I still think its wrong to hit a women in any way for any reason.

What if your life was in danger? Self-defence? Not even then?

If you are pacifist then yes. But that also mean syou can't hit anyone, including your kids.

Do you agree with smacking children?