War In Africa Against Islam, Backed By Usa

[Trumble]

let me ask you this question...

if the US had chosen could they with their power and the aid they give and the threat of removing it have stopped the ethiopians?

yes or no?

Probably, but why should they? Lots of other people give aid to Ethiopia as well, I don't see them theatening to stop it, either. The Americans don't like the UIC, nobody is denying that - why would they intervene in that fashion?

do you seriously think ethiopia would move without a nod and a wink from the most power nation on earth?

Yes, frankly. They simply had no need of a 'nod and a wink' from anybody, so there is absolutely no reason to assume one was sought or granted. Plenty of people start and fight wars without getting US approval first - and what difference would not getting it have made? The Ethiopians would have known full well that the US would not intervene to prevent such a conflict, or provide assistance to the UIC should it occur. It just comes down to the usual 'blame it all on America' routine.

 

[KAding]

*Deep Sigh*

Did they fund the warlords?

Probably. Although the US denies it at least, for whats it's worth. It doesn't appear they provided weapons recently either. Not according to the latest UN report on the war in Somalia anyway. It accuses ten countries of providing weapons, which does not include the US. (Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6149276.stm). There are apparently lots of countries involved, all which have their own agenda. Yet, you insist on blaming the US for this. Why?

Besides, how does the US funding or backing some warlords mean that it is controlling Ethiopian actions? Do you deny Ethiopia has it's own reasons for fighting this war? And has in fact been active in Somalia for more than a decade now? Don't you think that perhaps the reason that the ICU has been demanding the Ogaden region which is now part of Ethiopia might have upset Ethiopia? Sure, the US has their own reason to dislike the ICU, so do other countries!

 

[i_m_tipu]

Probably. Although the US denies it at least, for whats it's worth. It doesn't appear they provided weapons recently either. Not according to the latest UN report on the war in Somalia anyway. It accuses ten countries of providing weapons, which does not include the US. (Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6149276.stm). There are apparently lots of countries involved, all which have their own agenda. Yet, you insist on blaming the US for this. Why?

Besides, how does the US funding or backing some warlords mean that it is controlling Ethiopian actions? Do you deny Ethiopia has it's own reasons for fighting this war? And has in fact been active in Somalia for more than a decade now? Don't you think that perhaps the reason that the ICU has been demanding the Ogaden region which is now part of Ethiopia might have upset Ethiopia? Sure, the US has their own reason to dislike the ICU, so do other countries!

hello

I m full of surprise.

I heard on my own ears that a terrorisms specialist (called by cnn) telling cnn on the time when ICU controlled the Somalia. He blaming USA policy again and again for fueling Warlord. He said in afgan vs rasia war usa mistook in Somalia usa mistook again. And he continuously blaming USA policy.

 

[KAding]

hello

I m full of surprise.

I heard on my own ears that a terrorisms specialist (called by cnn) telling cnn on the time when ICU controlled the Somalia. He blaming USA policy again and again for fueling Warlord. He said in afgan vs rasia war usa mistook in Somalia usa mistook again. And he continuously blaming USA policy.

The thing is. The ICU are also 'warlords' and as the UN report notes they are actively armed by many Muslim countries. This is probably one of the reasons why the ICU was doing so well recently. That was the reason why Ethiopia (and the US eventually) got concerned.

People always like to focus on the US. What about the blame for countries that have actually been shown and proven to be involved!

 

[i_m_tipu]

from cnn

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/06/06/somalia.fighting/index.html?eref=sitesearch

Tuesday, June 6, 2006; Posted: 8:21 p.m. EDT (00:21 GMT)

//this below poll on that time cnn offer to the user

QUICKVOTE
Do you think the U.S. should be supporting warlords in Somalia?
Yes
No

The Islamic militia that has claimed control of Somalia's capital Mogadishu still faces opposition from some of residents and is unlikely to be able to form a new government, according to observers.

The Islamic Courts Union, which is suspected of ties to the al Qaeda terrorist network, claimed Monday to have wrested control of the war-torn city of some 2 million residents from a U.S.-backed coalition of warlords who call themselves an anti-terrorist alliance.


The United States has had no direct involvement in Somalia since 1994, when U.S. troops -- originally dispatched on a humanitarian mission -- were withdrawn after becoming embroiled in the country's civil war.
// it clearly prove U.S had indirect involvement in Somalia with warlord.

But Prendergast said U.S. operatives had been supporting the secular warlords, many of whom were the same militia leaders who fought pitched battles in the streets of Mogadishu in the 1990s.

"It remains to be seen whether the U.S.-backed groups can live to see another day and fight for control of some of the territory they've lost," he said.

i think it is enough prove form one page. search yourself Kading u will find more surelly.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I thought so. Of course the US was 'behind' Iraq and Afghanistan. They are different wars, in different places, and involve large numbers of US troops. How many US troops are currently fighting the ICU, exactly? :rollseyes . Do you have any evidence for your conclusion other than your own prejudice?

I harbor no prejudice. I'm just making you aware that like most, you're jumping on the bandwagon but fail to see what is actually happening for yourself.

And, why don't you provide the evidence that the US are not funding.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Probably. Although the US denies it at least, for whats it's worth. It doesn't appear they provided weapons recently either. Not according to the latest UN report on the war in Somalia anyway. It accuses ten countries of providing weapons, which does not include the US. (Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6149276.stm). There are apparently lots of countries involved, all which have their own agenda. Yet, you insist on blaming the US for this. Why?

I'm not anti america just anti dubya. He's a cretin. 2008 Can't come sooner when that goofball will leave office. He's ruined what was once a great country. I just hope the democrats can try to build bridges where he's destroyed them!

Only thing i would criticize Clinton for, was his failure to act in Rwanda.

 

[Trumble]

i think it is enough prove form one page.

I hate to be picky, but there is no 'proof' at all. All that is is CNN quoting one person's (who has no connection with the US government) opinion.

And, why don't you provide the evidence that the US are not funding.

As you should be perfectly well aware, it is virtually impossible to 'prove' that somebody isn't doing something. The emphasis is on the person who is claiming something is being done to prove it... that should only take one piece of evidence, if it is good enough. You have no such evidence of US funding of Ethiopia for this campaign.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I hate to be picky, but there is no 'proof' at all. All that is is CNN quoting one person's (who has no connection with the US government) opinion.

As you should be perfectly well aware, it is virtually impossible to 'prove' that somebody isn't doing something. The emphasis is on the person who is claiming something is being done to prove it... that should only take one piece of evidence, if it is good enough. You have no such evidence of US funding of Ethiopia for this campaign.

Would it change your thought, or would you continue to dance around it like you are?

 

[KAding]

Would it change your thought, or would you continue to dance around it like you are?

How do these claims that the US is funding some warlords provide any foundation for your claim that Ethiopia is acting on orders of the US?

 

[Dawud_uk]

How do these claims that the US is funding some warlords provide any foundation for your claim that Ethiopia is acting on orders of the US?

this was even stated by the editoral of the independent newspaper in the UK which is strictly secular and athiest.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

How do these claims that the US is funding some warlords provide any foundation for your claim that Ethiopia is acting on orders of the US?

1 - Warlords funded but fail
2 - UIC take control
3 - US not happy
4 - Lets get Ethiopia involved - Backed by US.

Ta Dah!

 

[Dawud_uk]

1 - Warlords funded but fail
2 - UIC take control
3 - US not happy
4 - Lets get Ethiopia involved - Backed by US.

Ta Dah!

thanks my friend,

i find it ironic that the best defence of islam and the muslims is coming from a sikh at the moment.

take care,

Abu Abdullah

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

thanks my friend,

i find it ironic that the best defence of islam and the muslims is coming from a sikh at the moment.

take care,

Abu Abdullah

I'm just telling it like it is.!

 

[Woodrow]

Sadly too few people are aware of what has actually taken place in Somalia. Except for people that have contact with family or friends there, most of our awareness is what the media shows and the media is only going to show that which will bring the highest viewing audience.

Most people do not want to hear of faults about the country that they live in, so the media for the most part will cater to that whim. Corporate profit is one of the most powerfull shapers of Government policy.

 

[KAding]

1 - Warlords funded but fail
2 - UIC take control
3 - US not happy
4 - Lets get Ethiopia involved - Backed by US.

Ta Dah!

First of all, this is not proof whatsoever. You could just as well have said "it is so, because I think it is so" . But at least it clears up your thought process a bit.

But at least be so honest to make it somewhat more complete list
1. Some warlords get support from Ethiopia and possibly (unproven and denied) the US. Other warlords (ICU) get support from the countries named in the UN report on the breach of the weapons embargo
2. ICU warlords are winning the fight and control much of the country
3. Ethiopia is not happy due to Ogaden being disputed territory and the ICU thinking it are Muslim lands
4. The US is not happy because it believes some within the ICU have links with the 1998 embassy bombings
5. Ethiopia invades Somalia

Now, I assume our only dispute is about 5 and you agree with 1-4. What do you believe exactly about 5 though?
1. That the US threatened Ethiopia to invade?
2. That the US bribed Ethiopia to invade?
3. That the US actively engaged Ethiopia to get it to invade Somalia
4. That the US didn't oppose the invasion?

So essentially, do you think Ethiopia would have been capable and willing to fight the ICU without US involvement? If not, why not? What political, financial or military obstacles would there be?
And one more question you so far failed to answer. Assuming you are right and the US is involved somehow, why are you so outraged about them but not all those other countries who have breached the arms embargo to arm the ICU?

 

[Keltoi]

I think some people have a fairly simplified view of world politics, when the reality is much more complicated. Ethiopia doesn't need a U.S. "nod and wink" to do what they see necessary to protect their interests in the region. In fact, what better time for a country to aggressively pursue a particular policy approach than when the U.S., U.K., and to a large extent the U.N., are focused on issues within Iraq and Afghanistan. It is no secret that the U.S. is no fan of the UIC, but that is much different than suggesting Ethiopa and the United States are working together to destroy the UIC. Ethiopa has its own interests.

 

[KAding]

this was even stated by the editoral of the independent newspaper in the UK which is strictly secular and athiest.

I assume you mean this editorial:
http://comment.independent.co.uk/leading_articles/article2110282.ece

It includes the claim that the hand of the United States, which also fears a fundamentalist Islamic regime in Somalia, can also be detected behind Ethiopia's action. Yet this is very vague, how can it be 'detected' then? What exactly has the US done?

The same question to you, could you elaborate how exactly you believe the US is involved. With money? Militarily? Or merely by not opposing it?

 

[KAding]

I'm thinking it's fairly safe to say the Somalis are not all either supporters of the ICU or all supporters of the internationally recognized government. They are probably quite divided on the issue as well, so I'm wary of these black-white statements on 'what Somalies think'.

 

[SilentObserver]

Ethiopa has its own interests.

True.

I'm thinking it's fairly safe to say the Somalis are not all either supporters of the ICU or all supporters of the internationally recognized government. They are probably quite divided on the issue as well, so I'm wary of these black-white statements on 'what Somalies think'.

Exactly. We should even take what people with family 'connections' say with a grain of salt. They are giving an opinion based on the bias of their family view. When you talk to other Somaliis, they have a completely different view. We should use or intelligence to weigh out all info and statements before drawing our own conclusions.