U.S. Launches Attack on Suspected Al Qaeda Members in Somalia

[Islamicboy]

I didnt mean forced to pray but some of the laws are based on Islamic beliefs. This is what I believe causes the civil wars.

I did not know that, I know they are an Islamic State so what laws do they go by, if you dont know that is fine I will just research it.

They were actually a militia loyal to the ICU, and yes they were killing innocents who didnt agree with their cause, these werent necessarily people that sided with the warlords either.

This is just a theory, however it is probable. On the other hand this government didnt even hold office long enough to hold formal elections.

The ICU was doing no better than any other form of government, in fact they may have been worse. They say they are for the people but they wish to impose strict moral laws which many of the people disagree with (such as forbidding watching soccer in public) Somaliland and Puntland to the north are governed (not under islamic law) and are a fairly peaceful part of the country. Maybe this should be done to all of Somalia, just split it up and let each part govern itself.

Acutually this is kind of untrue, in America no one "gives" us weapons, however you have the constitutional right to bear arms. For instance, I own a wide array of different weapons, not really so much to use (hopefully) but more because they are just like a hobby. These are not just pistols either, and not only that but anyone without a criminal record can obtain these weapons by simply filling out a permit and in some cases taking a class. The problem is (in this part you are right) these people are being supplied with weapons and have known nothing but war their whole lives, which will obviously only fuel the fire. I do not think though that this sort of thing would break out in America, most of Europe or more developed countries like these, it is just not civil. The kind of thinking these people have is very primitive in nature. God help them all, and I pray the Lord brings peace to everyone in these devastated regions.

here is a source for my facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

But there was never a non muslim who rose up agiasnt the islamic shariah before. In afganistan the people who fought agiasnt Taliban were muslims because they were fooled with lies and propoganda. In Somalia the people who started to fight agiasnt the islamist were the christian ethopia which should not even get involved into this in the first place. If you saying the civil wars are caused by shariah because others dont accept it. But thats not true if you go to afganistan today and ask northern alliance if they agree with shariah they will tell you yes. Majority of these civil wars happen becuase other nations get involved.

Iran claims it follows shariah just like pakistan and saudi arabia. So if you do research you will end up getting confused thinking they really do follow shariah.

As far as what you say about the islamist being this criminal. Thats untrue! Everyone knows that islamist brought peace to Somalia I even seen interviews conducted by BBC where the Somalia people themselves said they like what the islamist have done so far.

They banned television so what? America banned Child porn is that too extreme for you too??? Television leds to evils such as pornography and everyone knows this no need for a debate on this matter.

 

[Skillganon]

They were actually a militia loyal to the ICU, and yes they were killing innocents who didnt agree with their cause, these werent necessarily people that sided with the warlords either.

What millitia that was loyal to the ICU and killing innocent people?

This is just a theory, however it is probable. On the other hand this government didnt even hold office long enough to hold formal elections.

Muslims cannot ellect wheter they wan't to have Islamic Law upon them or not. Aslong as they are following the Quran and the sunnah, despite the upheaval any many challenge they face from their enemy and hyprocrite.

The ICU was doing no better than any other form of government, in fact they may have been worse. They say they are for the people but they wish to impose strict moral laws which many of the people disagree with (such as forbidding watching soccer in public) Somaliland and Puntland to the north are governed (not under islamic law) and are a fairly peaceful part of the country. Maybe this should be done to all of Somalia, just split it up and let each part govern itself.

As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.
Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

here is a source for my facts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

p.s. Wikipedia is not a source of absolute fact neither truth. It is a collection of information from variouse sources itself that may have many problems of their own.

Just a note & advice never write your thesis as wikipedia as your reference, you will be sure to get a poor mark at the worse fail.

 

[MTAFFI]

But there was never a non muslim who rose up agiasnt the islamic shariah before. In afganistan the people who fought agiasnt Taliban were muslims because they were fooled with lies and propoganda. In Somalia the people who started to fight agiasnt the islamist were the christian ethopia which should not even get involved into this in the first place. If you saying the civil wars are caused by shariah because others dont accept it. But thats not true if you go to afganistan today and ask northern alliance if they agree with shariah they will tell you yes. Majority of these civil wars happen becuase other nations get involved.

I think that maybe I am just a firm believer in democracy and the separation of church and state. On this we must agree to disagree because there are pros and cons to each and we could go around and around all day on this. However I will agree that Ethiopia didnt really have any business in Somalia. I think they may have just feared the violence in Somalia would spill over into their country. The only thing that justifies the US doing what it did recently is the ICU sheltering the people that bombed those embassies. If they have such good intentions and only want good for their country why would they allow these people to hide out in their country? They had to know the trouble this would bring, this is what makes me and alot of other people question the ICU intentions.

Iran claims it follows shariah just like pakistan and saudi arabia. So if you do research you will end up getting confused thinking they really do follow shariah.

So what is Iran then? I did some research and they do appear to follow shariah. (I am not trying to be argumentative or anything I just would like a Muslims perspective on their rule)

As far as what you say about the islamist being this criminal. Thats untrue! Everyone knows that islamist brought peace to Somalia I even seen interviews conducted by BBC where the Somalia people themselves said they like what the islamist have done so far.

I also continued researching this and found that you are right in many cases! I think that the warlords did need to be overthrown because it seems the ICU was stopping violence in many areas. However again I must wonder about their true intentions when they harbor the known bombers of the American embassies. Also I think that it could easily work both ways there as I said look at Somaliland and Puntland, why does it have to be Islamic Rule? Why is this so important, if Muslims already live under this rule why do they need a government to enforce it? If you are letting another man (or government) decide the punishment for your sins, isnt that like someone playing God?

They banned television so what? America banned Child porn is that too extreme for you too??? Television leds to evils such as pornography and everyone knows this no need for a debate on this matter.

Banning child porn and banning soccer are two very very very different things, I was just pointing out how strict they are trying to be on their people and I know that many do not agree with this. Soccer is a big deal in Somalia, so why should these people be deprived of it? There is nothing immoral about it. Television does bring many "evils" but it also brings a lot of knowledge and entertainment, I suppose it is up to you watch and dont watch

PEACE

 

[Sami Zaatari]

mtaffi u prove ur a rookie.

war=MONEY, not for U, but for UR GOVERMENT, for bush, rumsfeld, cheyney, and the millitary industrial complex, do u know how much money this business makes from war? BILLIONS A DAY, so good u get it, u get poor while the ELITE get more rich, finally u get it! u will lose, not them, they are a small group, again its called MILLITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, they make billions from war, so go learn before saying my logic is flawed, ur on fox news garbage. these men will kill u if u try to make peace, because with peace they dont make money, they need war to make their billions. didnt u know rumsefly cheyney all work in millitary companies that makes billions from war? not only these 2, but bush too and many others in ur goverment

and as they keep making billions they get more powerful, and with their power they dominate. he who has money has the power, and they make billionsssss from war. this is not about U, u think they care for u? lol ur less than an ant to them, infact ur their slave, u do what they want, think what they want, they will send u to iraq, afghan all under a fake smoke-screen of fighting terror, lol ur already sucked in u say ppl are saying they wanna make holy war on us! see they already control u and brainwash u into thinking that so they can go fight their fake war on terror making ppl like u buy it.

 

[MTAFFI]

What millitia that was loyal to the ICU and killing innocent people?

I will have to do more research to find a name for this militia (if it even has one), I just know they were a militia loyal to the ICU and the laws the ICU wish to implement[/COLOR]

Muslims cannot ellect wheter they wan't to have Islamic Law upon them or not. Aslong as they are following the Quran and the sunnah, despite the upheaval any many challenge they face from their enemy and hyprocrite.

So then, as I said above why is it that they need a government to enforce this for them. I will say again if you tell someone to enforce the laws of a religion isnt that like giving the power of God to them? Not only that but what if someone is wrongly accused and punished, then not only does it create a flaw in the government but in the religion as well. Since God knows all and can see all he should be the only judge and his book should be the only enforcer of any particular religion


As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.

Again, I ask who are they to apply the law of ones religion? Did Allah appoint these people to judge people for him?

Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

I was simply giving an example of just how strict this particular group wishes to be and that many dont agree with it, which causes fights and uprising. To a degree it is almost oppression to dictate whether or not someone can watch a soccer game, do you not agree?




p.s. Wikipedia is not a source of absolute fact neither truth. It is a collection of information from variouse sources itself that may have many problems of their own.

Just a note & advice never write your thesis as wikipedia as your reference, you will be sure to get a poor mark at the worse fail.

Wikipedia has references that you can follow, each claim I made, based on the facts that I obtained from that site, can be substanciated by simply following any links and validating the source. I agree with you though that it is not always correct, but really what is? Personally I like wikipedia, some say it is biased in areas but I think it gives good evidence to support many of its claims. I see people using news articles all of the time on this site for sources and how "absolute" is that?

PEACE

 

[MTAFFI]

mtaffi u prove ur a rookie.

it seems you are the rookie my friend

war=MONEY, not for U, but for UR GOVERMENT, for bush, rumsfeld, cheyney, and the millitary industrial complex, do u know how much money this business
makes from war?
I would like to see a source for this claim, I have seen this conspiracy theory before but never substantiated. There are businesses that make money while rebuilding in war, however I would like to see a direct relation to the government bringing in money on this since they are the ones paying it out. I already know you are going to say "They pay it out into their own pockets" However please provide a direct link from these companies to anyone in office in Washington. Also please consider that the cost of labor is far far far less than the cost of materials. That are being provided to some of these countries out of my pocket

BILLIONS A DAY, so good u get it, u get poor while the ELITE get more rich, finally u get it!

Please know that I am very far from poor

u will lose, not them, they are a small group, again its called MILLITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX,

This is a conspiracy theory and since you are the rookie here I will remind you those are banned on this site

they make billions from war, so go learn before saying my logic is flawed, ur on fox news garbage. these men will kill u if u try to make peace, because with peace they dont make money, they need war to make their billions. didnt u know rumsefly cheyney all work in millitary companies that makes billions from war? not only these 2, but bush too and many others in ur goverment

Really? Please elaborate, tell me one company they are involved with in profiteering from this war. It is illegal and believe me, watchdog companies in the US would expose this long before someone like you would

and as they keep making billions they get more powerful, and with their power they dominate. he who has money has the power, and they make billionsssss from war.

wrong

this is not about U, u think they care for u? lol ur less than an ant to them, infact ur their slave, u do what they want, think what they want, they will send u to iraq, afghan all under a fake smoke-screen of fighting terror, lol ur already sucked in u say ppl are saying they wanna make holy war on us! see they already control u and brainwash u into thinking that so they can go fight their fake war on terror making ppl like u buy it.

it seems you are brainwashed my friend, I actually typed a long paragraph attempting to explain all of this to you but I can tell by what you have already posted that it would be pointless. Believe what you want but the only one behind a smoke screen is you, the only one brainwashed is you, and the only one who thinks and does what anyone wants is you. I pity you really

PEACE

 

[Islamicboy]

I think that maybe I am just a firm believer in democracy and the separation of church and state. On this we must agree to disagree because there are pros and cons to each and we could go around and around all day on this. However I will agree that Ethiopia didnt really have any business in Somalia. I think they may have just feared the violence in Somalia would spill over into their country. The only thing that justifies the US doing what it did recently is the ICU sheltering the people that bombed those embassies. If they have such good intentions and only want good for their country why would they allow these people to hide out in their country? They had to know the trouble this would bring, this is what makes me and alot of other people question the ICU intentions.

America lied on killing the so called bombers. Also Al Qaeda had said they were not responsible for those attacks.

So what is Iran then? I did some research and they do appear to follow shariah. (I am not trying to be argumentative or anything I just would like a Muslims perspective on their rule)

Iran does follow few Shariah rules but also adds alot of other laws. Because of this the shariah in Iran is not legimate and Iran adds and deletes whatever is in the best interest for the Iran leaders.

Banning child porn and banning soccer are two very very very different things, I was just pointing out how strict they are trying to be on their people and I know that many do not agree with this. Soccer is a big deal in Somalia, so why should these people be deprived of it? There is nothing immoral about it. Television does bring many "evils" but it also brings a lot of knowledge and entertainment, I suppose it is up to you watch and dont watch

Because of television the world is so immoral today. Porn is much easy to access now days. Turn on the television its practically porn or just close it and these shows in canada are called "family show". Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

 

[Skillganon]

Hello again, I really did not notice you hade quoted me with all that blue and black.

So then, as I said above why is it that they need a government to enforce this for them. I will say again if you tell someone to enforce the laws of a religion isnt that like giving the power of God to them? Not only that but what if someone is wrongly accused and punished, then not only does it create a flaw in the government but in the religion as well. Since God knows all and can see all he should be the only judge and his book should be the only enforcer of any particular religion.

If one go to any country the Law is enforced. I never heard of a country where the law is no enforced. Incase of Islam it is the Law that Allah(s.w.t) and his messenger has basicly commanded to and no it is not upto the perpetuator to enforce the law upon himself or to dictate it to his whim and desire. The Law is applicable to everyone equally the rich and the poor the powerful and the weak. If one wan't to specify some flaws in Islamic Law than please make a seperate thread.

As above, anyway they does not have a say on what part of Islam is strict or not. It is not a dictate of any person whim and desire. So alsong as they are trying to apply the Islamic ruling despite the challenges and mishap they face it is alright.

Again, I ask who are they to apply the law of ones religion? Did Allah appoint these people to judge people for him?

I think you miss the point, the Law is Allah's Judgement and it is not the appointee's dictate and desire. So in some sense his command (Law) is his judgement.

Soccer should be the least concern of the somalian people considering they state of the country. The decision on restriction on soccer might well be matter of fiqh due to the circumstance of the society.

I was simply giving an example of just how strict this particular group wishes to be and that many dont agree with it, which causes fights and uprising. To a degree it is almost oppression to dictate whether or not someone can watch a soccer game, do you not agree?

no...because they might have seen lot of harm in it and cosidering the situation as I said it is the least thing to worry about, although it may not be exactly forbidden.... I cannot comment on the rulling or reason they have prohibited it but it is a negligble.

Wikipedia has references that you can follow, each claim I made, based on the facts that I obtained from that site, can be substanciated by simply following any links and validating the source. I agree with you though that it is not always correct, but really what is? Personally I like wikipedia, some say it is biased in areas but I think it gives good evidence to support many of its claims. I see people using news articles all of the time on this site for sources and how "absolute" is that

I agree it can be biased and no one is free from that, however I seen mis-information. One has to consider the information alway's is not neccessarily free of miss-information or ommision even the reference sources used. It may be better to get an all rounder approach. Althought Wikipedia by terms of percentage it offers more information but most are poor standard.

 

[MTAFFI]

America lied on killing the so called bombers. Also Al Qaeda had said they were not responsible for those attacks.

I think the Somali government said that the US killed the bombers, i made a post earlier where the US said they managed to escape but were still after them with some ground units. Also, I never said that they were Al Qaeda, just that they bombed the US embassies, this is what makes me question the ICU's intentions. Besides, I dont really put a name on terrorist such as "Al Qaeda", I think people use that too much, I think these guys had their own agenda, which is scary because who knows what there agenda might be with the Somali ICU.

Iran does follow few Shariah rules but also adds alot of other laws. Because of this the shariah in Iran is not legimate and Iran adds and deletes whatever is in the best interest for the Iran leaders.

oh ok, now i understand. I dont really like Iran to much and what is sad is they put themselves out there like they are the spokesman for the Islamic world

Because of television the world is so immoral today. Porn is much easy to access now days. Turn on the television its practically porn or just close it and these shows in canada are called "family show". Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

Television can be immoral but like I said everyone has the chance to just turn the TV off or change the channel. I must admit, I watch a lot of things that Muslims would consider immoral (MTV, Late night tv, comedy shows) but to me it is just tv. Definitely nothing to live my life by or to influence me in any way

PEACE

 

[MTAFFI]

Hello again, I really did not notice you hade quoted me with all that blue and black.

sorry about that

If one go to any country the Law is enforced. I never heard of a country where the law is no enforced.

I think you may have misunderstood me, I am not saying that the law isnt enforced I am saying that the law is based on a religion, and that law is enforced by man, whereas I would think the only one who could enforce the laws of religion would be God himself. This is why I say it is kind of like giving the power of God the government.

I agree it can be biased and no one is free from that, however I seen mis-information. One has to consider the information alway's is not neccessarily free of miss-information or ommision even the reference sources used. It may be better to get an all rounder approach. Althought Wikipedia by terms of percentage it offers more information but most are poor standard.

I could agree with that, I have read several things on there where I had to ask myself who published the info.

PEACE

 

[akulion]

The saddest part is that unfortunately we Muslims do not have a state, so the law is irrelevant since if there is no legal framework and no government, then i is bound to fail.

We desperately need a Caliphate

 

[Saif4U]

well well.. this is nothing new of the USA... Pay the Ethiopians to help the WarLords in somalia.. and then throw a few bombs themselves for the fun of it... and oh yess lets not forget the good old Al-Qaeda threat..that basically shuts any government in the world to speak out Not that they would anyway.. but you mention Al-Qaeda .. and all of a sudden the whole world community turn a blind eye.. Although western reporters are reporting that the Islamic Courts had bought peace and security just like the Taliban did .yet the world wants the warlords to return.. What it boils down to is the west cannot see a government thats calls for Shariah to be a success, so werver they see one emerging they make sure they make it a failed state.. But they plan and Allah s.w.t plans and he is the BEST of Planners.. Allahuma ansural mujahideen fee kuli makaan..ameeen

 

[Trumble]

Television is responisble for the evils such as rape, adultery etc..

Which never happened before television, of course...:rollseyes

 

[Islamicboy]

Which never happened before television, of course...:rollseyes

Not on the level it happens now. Before television there were bad people who commited adultery, raped, etc.. But now after television people commit adutlery and are very open about it. Rape around the world specially america is on its all time high. I am not saying television is the only source to blame its more the secular culture that did this too the world.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

thats pathetic pathetic and once again pathetic. How about for one second the US stops thinking about Al Qaeda (they must really love them) and go after Ethiopia for starting the war. Gee there's a thought.

 

[Keltoi]

thats pathetic pathetic and once again pathetic. How about for one second the US stops thinking about Al Qaeda (they must really love them) and go after Ethiopia for starting the war. Gee there's a thought.

The U.S. should stop thinking about Al-Qaeda???? :rollseyes Yeah, I bet Al-Qaeda would agree with you.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I said for a second. Why so much thought on finding al qaeda in somalia instead of first dealing with a country that started the war? ill tell u why, cuz it aint muslim majority. i dont even care if u wouldnt accept it, but what can i say, people hate the truth. I guess Al qaeda can fly around like lil birdies and get into a Muslim country

 

[Keltoi]

I said for a second. Why so much thought on finding al qaeda in somalia instead of first dealing with a country that started the war? ill tell u why, cuz it aint muslim majority. i dont even care if u wouldnt accept it, but what can i say, people hate the truth.

Perhaps because the U.S. isn't as concerned about who you think "started the war", they are concerned with capturing and killing Al-Qaeda members.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Exactly!!!!! who i think? how about who did. now theres a thought.

 

[Keltoi]

Exactly!!!!! who i think? how about who did. now theres a thought.

I fail to see your point. The U.S. military in the region were tasked with one mission, find, kill or capture members of Al-Qaeda living in Somalia. This issue of the conflict in Somalia, while important politically to the region, isn't the first priority of the United States.