Independent Kurdistan...

Independent Kurdistan


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:sl:
indeed he was.
:sl:

assalaamu alaykum,

true but he was not a narrow minded nationalist, he was a kurd but he was a muslim first and last.

we will not secure victory for the muslims without returning to this principle and leaving nationalism.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
 
It was justifiable territorial adjustment made by the British Government which at the time owned almost the whole globe.

I would be angry at you for being so foolish, but I will let you slide. You cannot help it if you are ignorant of how evil the British truly are.

And I agree with Grace Seeker.

In mixing comments that I made with comments which others made, you seem to have channelled all those who are againts a Kurdish nation into one megalithic idea in your own mind. But we have different reasons for our views, even if they come to the same conclusion. Please direct your arguments to those who own those view points. I certainly do not own them all, and do not like being labeled with such a broad brush. For making assumptions about me and my character, for stating things about me which are not true, and for attacking me for viewpoints which I do not hold, I believe I deserve and apology. However, I will be statisfied if you simply edit your posts so that others can see which ideas of mine you have critiqued are truly mine and not someone else's. Thank-you.
 
i am a very very strong supporter of kurdistan. and i pray that one day they will become a nation. :)

why??

to take all their oil?

or,,,

to settle some other military bases?


or,,

to control all mideast from there?

everyone knows the truths,,everyone knows why america support kurds there...
 
why??

to take all their oil?

or,,,

to settle some other military bases?


or,,

to control all mideast from there?

everyone knows the truths,,everyone knows why america support kurds there...

nah cause its there land. if ya support palestine or chechens, then your a hypocrite to not support the kurds, no matter how much you love those shia in iran.
 
why??

to take all their oil?

or,,,

to settle some other military bases?


or,,

to control all mideast from there?

everyone knows the truths,,everyone knows why america support kurds there...

You know more than I do.

Large all-encompassing statements such as 'everyone" will ALWAYS get a reaction from me.

First, I am an American. If you read this thread, you will see that I do NOT support an independent Kurdistan.

Second, those Americans who I know who favor a Kurdistan do so because they think it would be at least one region that would be stable, not for oil or any of the reason you mentioned.

Third, whatever the conversations exploring multiple options might include, the USA's official policy is presently opposed to any division of Iraq into separate parts. So, the idea of an independent Kurdistan, while being talked about, is not something that the USA actually favors.

Fourth, I am opposed to an independent Kurdistan not because of Iraq, but because I do not want to see Turkey carved up. So, please be careful in making such broad statements as you have above, you may find that it is your supporters that you are insulting.
 
nah cause its there land. if ya support palestine or chechens, then your a hypocrite to not support the kurds, no matter how much you love those shia in iran.


I can see how one can link those three, but one does not have to link those together into one position.

I believe that Israel has oppressed the Palestinians over the years, and manipulated the "resettlement" of the West Bank in such a way as to take lands away from some people (mostly Palestinians) and unjustly give it to others (nearly all Israelis). Thus I am not a supporter of Israel when it comes to the Palestinian issue (though I do support Israel's right to exist and do not think that the Palestinians hands are exactly clean either). Because Israel was in the position of power relative to the Palestinians, they need to be held accountable for how they have aggrevated an already bad situation for both sides, and made it worse (and worse particularly for the Palestinians).

Chechnya is a completely different story. Though there are some similarities, they are not enough to suggest that there should be the creation of an independent Chechen state.

And with Kurdistan, I don't think it would just make matters worse. There are many Kurds living outside the borders of the proposed Kurdistan. The majority of Kurds in Turkey live happily and peacably with Turks as their neighbors. True the Kurds were brutalized under Saddam Hussein, but that is no longer an issue. True in Turkey there is still sectarian violence. But if the PKK would stop its campaign of terror, I believe these would soon disappear.

However, if the Kurds ever win the support of the international community for a country of their own, then I predict that every ethnic group in the world will follow on their heels seeking the same thing. We will not have just the Balkanization of the Balkans; we will have the Balkanization of the world. I believe such actions will lead to more not less violence in the world. A line has to be drawn sometime and place, and now (not halfway down some slippery slope in the future) is when it needs to be drawn.
 
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nah cause its there land. if ya support palestine or chechens, then your a hypocrite to not support the kurds, no matter how much you love those shia in iran.

salam,
sister im not shi'a or iranian,im sunni n turk,

as i see it u think that this is their right,as yours...please look at your own nation,,there are 22 independent arabic country,and most of them are paining,our problem is being departed into many minnor countries,we need to be united to be strong,,,now you have oil n kuwait is rich,,,n you are safe....but not ur brothers,,and an independent kurdistan will be another ''israel'' there,,do you know that ''barzani''(kurdish leader in irak n possible president if they found kurdistan) is half israeli(some of his his relatives r living in israel n jew)...

palestinians n chechens are totaly different manner,,chechens wanna be independent coz russians are nt muslim n the same in palestinian,,,but now saddam reign is over n kurds are okay in irak as in turkey,,we dont have any problem with kurd brothers here,,i have many kurdish friends and none of them wanna be independent...

anyway,
wassalam
 
why??

to take all their oil?

or,,,

to settle some other military bases?


or,,

to control all mideast from there?

everyone knows the truths,,everyone knows why america support kurds there...


i support the kurds because they are very "reformed" people per se. they are more modern then any other group of people in that area.. there are even synagogues there! and you won't find that in any other area in that region besides israel and very liberal parts of turkey.

it's not for their oil at all.. heck, i personally don't care if they wouldn't sell any oil to america! if i was the president of one of those countries i would prolly stop selling oil to america too lol. and i certainly don't support it for military bases.. in fact i think that the U.S. should close all the bases in that area.

i support them, just as i support the chechens, and the quebecois, and those people in eastern spain.
 
Fourth, I am opposed to an independent Kurdistan not because of Iraq, but because I do not want to see Turkey carved up. So, please be careful in making such broad statements as you have above, you may find that it is your supporters that you are insulting.

dear Grace seeker,

thanks for ur explainations,

i did not mean the ''americans'', i meant ''american policies'',,,
of course america can not say that they want an independent kurdistan ,,this causes a crisis between usa n turkey,,but they armed kurdish group in northern irak,this was a proved truth,,last year,some kurdish terrorists(PKK) captured by turkish forces n the weapons were all american made...if you know, in 1996s,there was an american force in turkey which called ''hammer force'' who supposed to help turkish army against PKK..they were throwing some packages to the hills from helicopters,as they said those were food,clothes n such stuffs inside,,but some after PKK began to use some heavy weapons against us and after some investigations,those weapons were in the packages..(my uncle was in the army at that time n he fought against PKK for many years and he saw those weapons)...

and now us politics say that they never support independent kurdistan or they never support PKK ,,so how can we believe them after all!?

about oil in irak,,

before the irak war,most of the oil companies in irak were russian,french,german n chinese,,only usa n britain was out of that market,and usa n britain attacked irak first,,thay claimed that irak has chemical or nuclear weapons,,and they couldnt find any!! it was just for justifying the war...and now all the oil companies will be american n british...this is not fare,
every day ,100 people is dying in irak avarage,,
and more than 650 000 peole died already,,no body care them,,they just deal with their benefits...money,,oil,,weapon,,,

by the way,
thanks for caring turkey,,

peace on you...
 
i support the kurds because they are very "reformed" people per se. they are more modern then any other group of people in that area.. there are even synagogues there! and you won't find that in any other area in that region besides israel and very liberal parts of turkey.

it's not for their oil at all.. heck, i personally don't care if they wouldn't sell any oil to america! if i was the president of one of those countries i would prolly stop selling oil to america too lol. and i certainly don't support it for military bases.. in fact i think that the U.S. should close all the bases in that area.

i support them, just as i support the chechens, and the quebecois, and those people in eastern spain.

hi,
how you know that kurds are more modern than others there?
have u ever been there?

about synagogs;barzani is half israeli,maybe thats why there they are...
about turkey,we have jew people n they have right to pray however they want,,but the same manner is not in some other ''very modern'' european countries,,,such as greece,,you know in Athens there are nearly 40-50 000 muslim people,,but there is not even 1 mosque!! so should we create a ''small county'' for them??

maybe you dont care about oil but ur politics do,,!

maybe you want to close all military bases ,but ur politics want to make more,,!

they prove these all by their deeds,,

small countries are easy to control, and be cause of this,i dont want any other seperation in my region...we have been seperated more than enough...

peace
 
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hi,
how you know that kurds are more modern than others there?
have u ever been there?

about synagogs;barzani is half israeli,maybe thats why there they are...
about turkey,we have jew people n they have right to pray however they want,,but the same manner is not in some other ''very modern'' european countries,,,such as greece,,you know in Athens there are nearly 40-50 000 muslim people,,but there is not even 1 mosque!! so should we create a ''small county'' for them??

maybe you dont care about oil but ur politics do,,!

maybe you want to close all military bases ,but ur politics want to make more,,!

they prove these all by their deeds,,

small countries are easy to control, and be cause of this,i dont want any other seperation in my region...we have been seperated more than enough...

peace


well first off, the muslims aren't the majority at all in athens. so therefore no.

the kurds represent the vast majority of kurdistan lol. and i know they are more modern because the number of suicide bombers in that region.. VERY low. and i've met kurds before and they are just more modern then others.

and i think that if the U.K. has cities that are majoriy muslims, i wouldn't mind the shariah being implemented but ONLY for muslims. i wouldn't let the laws be applied for non muslims, and only certain areas should have it. and it should be a malaysia type shariah, not saudi arabia.
 
well first off, the muslims aren't the majority at all in athens. so therefore no.

the kurds represent the vast majority of kurdistan

By this line of reasoning, would you be willing to redraw the international borders between the USA and Mexico in Texas, so that those portions of south Texas that are more Mexican than gringo could become part of Mexico?

And perhaps while we are at it, cede the Cuban parts of south Florida to Cuba, the Canadian parts of northern Vermont to Canada, and the entire states of Minnesota and Wisconsin to Norway and Sweden.

Before you say that those who want to live in those cultures already have countries they can migrate to, consider this. Since northern Iraq is already considered to be an autonomous Kurdistan, why not just tell all Turkish Kurds who want to be part of Kurdistan to move across the border and quite fighting against the majority of Kurds in Turkey who do NOT wish for an independent Kurdistan?

Further, one could certainly make a case that the USA ought to relenquish governing authority over the Native American populations within its borders and set each of those Indian nations up as independent countries completely autonomous from American government. At least we could give Hawaii back to the Hawaiians and and create the countries of Eskimo and Inyuit out of Alaska and northern Canada.

As you and I live both in the USA, let us get our own house in order before we continue to impose our views on other countries. I think Turkey is in a better position to deal with this issue than we are.




and i think that if the U.K. has cities that are majoriy muslims, i wouldn't mind the shariah being implemented but ONLY for muslims. i wouldn't let the laws be applied for non muslims, and only certain areas should have it. and it should be a malaysia type shariah, not saudi arabia.
And should an independent Kurdistan be created, from which other countries is it to be formed. From just northern Iraq and eastern Turkey? Shouldn't part of Iran and perhaps Syria and some other countries also be included in it. And then, would the laws of the Kurds be applied to Iranians, Iraqis, Turks, Syrians and others who live within those borders?

I see from your previous post that you also support independent countries for the Quebecois and Basque. Exactly how small are you willing to go in carving up existing nations to create new nations for every ethnic group? Should the Hmong people of the highlands of Vietnam and Laos have their own country too? How about the native people of Taiwan/Formosa (or whatever you all it) before Chiang Kai-shek ran there with his nationalistic Chinese forces and imposed their will on those who lived there before them? Certainly the Mapuche of Chile, who never bowed to the Spanish conquistadores should be given southern Chile as their own country, except of course there are some other ethnic groups living their besides the Mapuche. Does each island in the Philippines become an independent country?

Interesting that in your England senario that only certain areas of these communities that are majority muslims would have shariah law applied. Could we determine it on a block by block basis? This block is predominately Muslim, where we have Shariah law. The next one isn't, here we don't have Shariah law. And if one block is predominantly Muslim from Saudi Arabia, why can't they have the Saudi form of Sharia law? Can we do the same thing in Austin where you live while we are at it, Thirdwatch? I'm sure that there are parts of Austin that are majority Muslim.

I get the emotions of your argument. But the realities of it are such a slippery slope that I fear the world could never recover.
 
By this line of reasoning, would you be willing to redraw the international borders between the USA and Mexico in Texas, so that those portions of south Texas that are more Mexican than gringo could become part of Mexico?

And perhaps while we are at it, cede the Cuban parts of south Florida to Cuba, the Canadian parts of northern Vermont to Canada, and the entire states of Minnesota and Wisconsin to Norway and Sweden.

Before you say that those who want to live in those cultures already have countries they can migrate to, consider this. Since northern Iraq is already considered to be an autonomous Kurdistan, why not just tell all Turkish Kurds who want to be part of Kurdistan to move across the border and quite fighting against the majority of Kurds in Turkey who do NOT wish for an independent Kurdistan?

Further, one could certainly make a case that the USA ought to relenquish governing authority over the Native American populations within its borders and set each of those Indian nations up as independent countries completely autonomous from American government. At least we could give Hawaii back to the Hawaiians and and create the countries of Eskimo and Inyuit out of Alaska and northern Canada.

As you and I live both in the USA, let us get our own house in order before we continue to impose our views on other countries. I think Turkey is in a better position to deal with this issue than we are.




And should an independent Kurdistan be created, from which other countries is it to be formed. From just northern Iraq and eastern Turkey? Shouldn't part of Iran and perhaps Syria and some other countries also be included in it. And then, would the laws of the Kurds be applied to Iranians, Iraqis, Turks, Syrians and others who live within those borders?

I see from your previous post that you also support independent countries for the Quebecois and Basque. Exactly how small are you willing to go in carving up existing nations to create new nations for every ethnic group? Should the Hmong people of the highlands of Vietnam and Laos have their own country too? How about the native people of Taiwan/Formosa (or whatever you all it) before Chiang Kai-shek ran there with his nationalistic Chinese forces and imposed their will on those who lived there before them? Certainly the Mapuche of Chile, who never bowed to the Spanish conquistadores should be given southern Chile as their own country, except of course there are some other ethnic groups living their besides the Mapuche. Does each island in the Philippines become an independent country?

Interesting that in your England senario that only certain areas of these communities that are majority muslims would have shariah law applied. Could we determine it on a block by block basis? This block is predominately Muslim, where we have Shariah law. The next one isn't, here we don't have Shariah law. And if one block is predominantly Muslim from Saudi Arabia, why can't they have the Saudi form of Sharia law? Can we do the same thing in Austin where you live while we are at it, Thirdwatch? I'm sure that there are parts of Austin that are majority Muslim.

I get the emotions of your argument. But the realities of it are such a slippery slope that I fear the world could never recover.

no reason to get all mean about it!


and i wouldn't support giving southern florida back to cuba because the majoirty of southern floridans wouldn't support that. same thing here in the south with aztlan. but if the majority of the people did want that and had just cause, sure, why not! and i'm talking about the vast majoirty, not just a small 50%.

as for shariah in the U.K.. i don't know how that would work lol. not block by block though. but if there was a CITY with overwhelmingly majority muslim, i don't see why shariah would be bad if the overwhelmingly majority supported it in that area. but the shariah would only be for muslims. no non muslims would be under it. and i wouldn't let the entire UK have shariah for muslims because a lot of people move to the UK to get AWAY from the shariah. therefore i don't think it would be a problem if certain areas were, but not all of the UK.

technically though i am a major sceptic of shariah law, as i am a homosexual.. so i don't want it at all. but i think it the muslims wanted it, but ONLY for them and ONLY for those willing to live under it, then i don't see a problem.

and actually austin doesn't have a muslim majority anywhere.. no where. :) not a subdivision, not a street, no where lol.
 
no reason to get all mean about it!


and i wouldn't support giving southern florida back to cuba because the majoirty of southern floridans wouldn't support that. same thing here in the south with aztlan. but if the majority of the people did want that and had just cause, sure, why not! and i'm talking about the vast majoirty, not just a small 50%.

as for shariah in the U.K.. i don't know how that would work lol. not block by block though. but if there was a CITY with overwhelmingly majority muslim, i don't see why shariah would be bad if the overwhelmingly majority supported it in that area. but the shariah would only be for muslims. no non muslims would be under it. and i wouldn't let the entire UK have shariah for muslims because a lot of people move to the UK to get AWAY from the shariah. therefore i don't think it would be a problem if certain areas were, but not all of the UK.

technically though i am a major sceptic of shariah law, as i am a homosexual.. so i don't want it at all. but i think it the muslims wanted it, but ONLY for them and ONLY for those willing to live under it, then i don't see a problem.

and actually austin doesn't have a muslim majority anywhere.. no where. :) not a subdivision, not a street, no where lol.

Sorry, you think I'm mean.

What would you call those who blew up a building in Istanbul near where my daughter lives?

BTW, the folks who attend the Austin Peace Academy might be surprised to learn that no where in Austin is there an Muslim majority.
 
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Sorry, you think I'm mean.

What would you call those who blew up a building in Istanbul near where my daughter lives?

BTW, the folks who attend the Austin Peace Academy might be surprised to learn that no where in Austin is there an Muslim majority.

yes, there's an islamic school here. there are also two mosques. that doesn't mean all the muslims are centered around them. there's also like 6 synagogues and two jewish schools. but the jews aren't the majority. there's 4 hindu temples.. hindu's aren't the majority! and the baha'i faith is booming everywhere.. but baha'is aren't the majority.
 
terrorists. why?


They call themselves Kurdish freedom fighters.


Not a street with a Muslim majority? I haven't actually done a religious census of Austin. Have you? Hint: if want to save some time, just start in the 9200 and 9300 blocks of North Lamar.
 
yes, there's an islamic school here. there are also two mosques. that doesn't mean all the muslims are centered around them. there's also like 6 synagogues and two jewish schools. but the jews aren't the majority. there's 4 hindu temples.. hindu's aren't the majority! and the baha'i faith is booming everywhere.. but baha'is aren't the majority.


I didn't say in the whole city. I am using your argument that if a subsection can be found that wants something, then give it to them. You may not like my categorization of your argument in those terms, but that is essentially what it appears to be to me unless you care to clarify. And certainly, since there are Muslims in the city, there are indeed subsections where they are the majority. It may be just where 2 or 3 Muslims live next door to each other, but they are there.
 

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