Rebels' dilemma after Basayev death

[Chechen]

assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Ameen brother. May Allah ease the suffering of every muslim. But don't worry all of this is just a test. This life is a test. Insha Alah we'll be rewarded in the afterlife.

 

[Chechnya]

Argued with the kafirs over this many times so i cant be bothered to go over that again - just gonna reply to muslim comments

"Yet I do not believe that history will remember Shamil Basayev primarily for Beslan"

Yes it will, except in extremist circles.

Bro imaad_udeen - sorry to say but your talking rubbish

firstly what is an "extremist"?

and would only an "extremist" remember shamil basayev for his 15 year fight against russian oppression instead of just concetrating on a mistake he made in Beslan.

I believe the quote of Ahmed Zakayev is correct - history will remember Shamil Basayev for his brilliant military ability which included re-capturing grozny from the russians - a feat that remains the best operation carried out by modern day mujahideen anywhere in the world.

Im not talking about "western" history of course - im talking about where it matters which is the north caucaus and the muslim world.

 

[Keltoi]

Argued with the kafirs over this many times so i cant be bothered to go over that again - just gonna reply to muslim comments



Bro imaad_udeen - sorry to say but your talking rubbish

firstly what is an "extremist"?

and would only an "extremist" remember shamil basayev for his 15 year fight against russian oppression instead of just concetrating on a mistake he made in Beslan.

I believe the quote of Ahmed Zakayev is correct - history will remember Shamil Basayev for his brilliant military ability which included re-capturing grozny from the russians - a feat that remains the best operation carried out by modern day mujahideen anywhere in the world.

Im not talking about "western" history of course - im talking about where it matters which is the north caucaus and the muslim world.

Good strategy. Don't respond to the "kafirs". The "kafirs" are likely to believe that the slaughter of children is an unforgivable offense. Perhaps Muslims call it a "mistake", but the "kafirs" call it cold-blooded cowardly murder. Terrorism will never lead to Chechen independence, only more death and mayhem on both sides.

 

[Chechen]

Bombs? I do hope you don't mean the ones in the gym. You know, the gym where all the innocent hostages were kept? The hostages that were taken to "scare" Putin. Those hostages.

If the rebels wanted to scare Putin, why not take some of HIS men hostage? The civilian population is not the enemy. If I know that, there's no way a seasoned veteran rebel leader doesn't. Me thinks they wanted to scare the civilians. Me thinks their real purpose was to do what the U.S. did in WWII to the Japanese--incur so many civilian casualties that the civilians will demand the government surrender.

Strange...In class, we discussed an Ashanti proverb: One falsehood spoils a thousand truths. That seems to ring true, as I'm becoming against the Chechen rebels because of Beslan. Not their call for independence, just the way they do it. Like the U.S.'s way of "liberating" people.

You think the rebels never took Russian soldiers hostage? Of course they did they're not idiots. Once they took a big group of Russian soldiers hostage and Putin didn't want to save them. The rebels asked to exchange the soldiers for the innocent Chechen civilians that the Russians kept in concentration camps. Putin didn't want to at the end the rebels felt pity for the Russian soldiers and let them go but told them that the next time they caught them they would kill them. Putin killed his own children and not the rebels. If they let go adult Russian SOLDIERS then why wouldn't they let a bunch of children go. They just said that if the Russians stop the genocide in Chechnya then they'll let everyone go they never suspected that anyone could be barbaric enough to kill his own children.

 

[wilberhum]

Putin killed his own children and not the rebels.

How do you sleep at night?

 

[Chechen]

How do you sleep at night?

What does sleep have to do with anything?

 

[Suomipoika]

Its amazing that some people on these boards complain about media giving bad image of Islam. But there is nothing in the media that Ive seen that gives so bad image of muslims as threads like these were child killers and rapists are glorified as martys and heroes.

Now I know that not every muslim thinks this way, but... imsad

 

[wilberhum]

Its amazing that some people on these boards complain about media giving bad image of Islam. But there is nothing in the media that Ive seen that gives so bad image of muslims as threads like these were child killers and rapists are glorified as martys and heroes.

Now I know that not every muslim thinks this way, but... imsad

Well said. My thought exactly. There is nothing like glorifing child killers and murders to create a posietive immage.

 

[Chechnya]

Good strategy. Don't respond to the "kafirs". The "kafirs" are likely to believe that the slaughter of children is an unforgivable offense. Perhaps Muslims call it a "mistake", but the "kafirs" call it cold-blooded cowardly murder. Terrorism will never lead to Chechen independence, only more death and mayhem on both sides.

Good strategy. Dont read what i actually wrote - put words in my mouth and come out with a twisted post...

If you bothered to read my comments you would understand what i meant - the last time this topic was bought up, the debate lasted about 10 pages mainly with silentobserver. I dont have time for another one of those 10 page missions so im just gonna pick and chose what i reply to.

Im not gonna totally ignore points made by the non-muslims here - if they bring up something i havent answered before, i'll pick up on the point.
As long as its the normal stuff, im not gonna bother with that.

Well said. My thought exactly. There is nothing like glorifing child killers and murders to create a posietive immage.

Interesting comment.

What are your thoughts on the people of America and the people of Russia ELECTING child-murderers to lead them?

 

[SilentObserver]

It is amazing how some people will attempt to distort the known truth to glorify child rapists and murderers like those that took the children at Beslan hostage. How disgusting. What a twisted filthy thing to do, admiring those that would harm innocent children, and attempt to justify what was done to them.
It is murder in the lowest form by cowardly vermin. May God punish them if any still live.

Shamil Basayev, who was recently assassinated

To say that this terrorist pig was 'assassinated' gives him credit as someone that deserved to be alive. He was not assassinated, he was executed, and justice was served.

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr,

Unlikely. The slaughter of children is unforgivable. It is disgusting that any person would want to glorify a person that would harm children. You should be ashamed.

Ameen brother. May Allah ease the suffering of every muslim.

This shows the level of your bigotry and racism. You care only for the suffering of muslims. What of the others that are suffering? No prayer for the suffering of the surviving children of Beslan?

No children should suffer anywhere, nonmuslim or muslim.

There is no place in society for people that think it is ok to murder children and use them as pawns, and praise those that do such things. No place except prison.

 

[Count DeSheep]

Once they took a big group of Russian soldiers hostage and Putin didn't want to save them. The rebels asked to exchange the soldiers for the innocent Chechen civilians that the Russians kept in concentration camps. Putin didn't want to at the end the rebels felt pity for the Russian soldiers and let them go but told them that the next time they caught them they would kill them.

So the rebels let go a bunch of murdering soldiers. Not something to be proud of, especially if they're the enemy. Isn't willingly releasing the enemy without any kind of concessions in return called treason? Odd.

Putin killed his own children and not the rebels.

The rebels didn't kill any of them? Oh, wait. They were too busy wiring bombs around them and using them as human shields to kill them. I forgot.

If they let go adult Russian SOLDIERS then why wouldn't they let a bunch of children go.

I was about to ask you the same.

They just said that if the Russians stop the genocide in Chechnya then they'll let everyone go they never suspected that anyone could be barbaric enough to kill his own children.

If the Russians are as savage as you say they are (and as I believe they are), why wouldn't the rebels expect that? Why weren't they prepared to at least give the students an exit? Again, it looks like civilians were the only target at Beslan.

 

[Chechen]

It is amazing how some people will attempt to distort the known truth to glorify child rapists and murderers like those that took the children at Beslan hostage. How disgusting. What a twisted filthy thing to do, admiring those that would harm innocent children, and attempt to justify what was done to them.
It is murder in the lowest form by cowardly vermin. May God punish them if any still live.
To say that this terrorist pig was 'assassinated' gives him credit as someone that deserved to be alive. He was not assassinated, he was executed, and justice was served.

Unlikely. The slaughter of children is unforgivable. It is disgusting that any person would want to glorify a person that would harm children. You should be ashamed.

This shows the level of your bigotry and racism. You care only for the suffering of muslims. What of the others that are suffering? No prayer for the suffering of the surviving children of Beslan?

No children should suffer anywhere, nonmuslim or muslim.

There is no place in society for people that think it is ok to murder children and use them as pawns, and praise those that do such things. No place except prison.

Oh before I was a liar, a terrorist, a baby killer and now racist came to the list aswell. Interesting... I said let Allah ease the pain of all muslims because only muslims are suffering at the moment. Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Kshmir etc. They're all muslims and that's why I said let Allah ease the pain of all muslims.

 

[Chechen]

So the rebels let go a bunch of murdering soldiers. Not something to be proud of, especially if they're the enemy. Isn't willingly releasing the enemy without any kind of concessions in return called treason? Odd.



The rebels didn't kill any of them? Oh, wait. They were too busy wiring bombs around them and using them as human shields to kill them. I forgot.



I was about to ask you the same.



If the Russians are as savage as you say they are (and as I believe they are), why wouldn't the rebels expect that? Why weren't they prepared to at least give the students an exit? Again, it looks like civilians were the only target at Beslan.

Treachery?? How did treachery come in there? Basayev felt pity for the soldiers and ordered himself for the soldiers to be released. Who did he betray? Chechnes have to much honor to kill captures prisoners. And yes the Russians are savages and Basayev knew that they would kill anyone anytime but he never could imagine that they could kill their own children! He just didn't know that they were capable of doing something so terrible.

 

[Keltoi]

Treachery?? How did treachery come in there? Basayev felt pity for the soldiers and ordered himself for the soldiers to be released. Who did he betray? Chechnes have to much honor to kill captures prisoners. And yes the Russians are savages and Basayev knew that they would kill anyone anytime but he never could imagine that they could kill their own children! He just didn't know that they were capable of doing something so terrible.

Chechens have too much honor to kill captive prisoners huh? Seems strange that there are videos on the internet of Chechen fighters slitting the throats of Russian captives...oh well.

 

[Count DeSheep]

Seems strange that there are videos on the internet of Chechen fighters slitting the throats of Russian captives...oh well.

Also strange that there are videos of victims of the Russians--you know, like the ones that the Chechens have too much "honor" to kill? If the Russian soldiers are that bad, why not kill them when you get the chance? They kill civilians, and yet you let them go? Odd.

 

[Chechen]

Chechens have too much honor to kill captive prisoners huh? Seems strange that there are videos on the internet of Chechen fighters slitting the throats of Russian captives...oh well.

I have seen videos of Chechen rebels executing Russian soldiers along with another Chechen traitor because they had gang raped a child. I haven't seen any videos of Chechens slitting Russian soldiers' throats and have never heard any stories about those cases but there was probably something behind it like what I said about them being punished for terrible crimes.

 

[Chechen]

Also strange that there are videos of victims of the Russians--you know, like the ones that the Chechens have too much "honor" to kill? If the Russian soldiers are that bad, why not kill them when you get the chance? They kill civilians, and yet you let them go? Odd.

The soldiers that they let go were barely 18 and were forced to go fight in Chechnya and like I told Keltoi the Chechens punish Russian soldiers for their crimes when they catch them. Those young boys didn't even choose to go to Chechnya. Because in Russia it happens often that once a boy turns 18 people from the Russian army come to take him to the army and send him to Chechnya and he has no choice. That's why most russian mothers pay doctors so that they write a certificate saying that her son has problems with his health so that they don't take him away.

 

[Chechnya]

Treachery?? How did treachery come in there? Basayev felt pity for the soldiers and ordered himself for the soldiers to be released. Who did he betray? Chechnes have to much honor to kill captures prisoners. And yes the Russians are savages and Basayev knew that they would kill anyone anytime but he never could imagine that they could kill their own children! He just didn't know that they were capable of doing something so terrible.

True - in the first war alone Shamil released over 400 russian soldiers to their mothers - he actually protected the mothers as they were being fired on by the russian soldiers in grozny! lol

Also Shamil ended the first war by defeating the russians thereby saving hundreds of thousands of lives of women and children...a great man

 

[Chechen]

True - in the first war alone Shamil released over 400 russian soldiers to their mothers - he actually protected the mothers as they were being fired on by the russian soldiers in grozny! lol

Also Shamil ended the first war by defeating the russians thereby saving hundreds of thousands of lives of women and children...a great man

Like he said... A great man he was. And no matter what you bunch of kafirs say it isn't going to change that whether you like it or not so if you don't like that fact then just stay out of the Chechnya threads and especially the Basayev ones because no matter what Chechen thread you go to you will see people remembering Shamil and they'll remember him as a hero forever.

 

[Count DeSheep]

The soldiers that they let go were barely 18 and were forced to go fight in Chechnya and like I told Keltoi the Chechens punish Russian soldiers for their crimes when they catch them. Those young boys didn't even choose to go to Chechnya. Because in Russia it happens often that once a boy turns 18 people from the Russian army come to take him to the army and send him to Chechnya and he has no choice. That's why most russian mothers pay doctors so that they write a certificate saying that her son has problems with his health so that they don't take him away.

If there are soldiers that have no choice in the matter, why kill any soldiers to begin with?

They are being forced to do what they do, you say. Are they not just as much victims as the civilians are? Going on the assumption that you will defend killing other soldiers, I must ask, why not kill all soldiers? Eventually the young soldiers will kill civilians. They do have guns for a reason.

You say that the Russians are violent murderers, and that is true. They slaughter innocent civilians and refuse to allow anyone independence from their iron fist. So tell me, why defend them? If young soldiers like the ones the rebels freed are forced into the army, why turn them back over the the Russian government? Are you not helping the government by doing so?