message in Christianity

[Grace Seeker]

Fine, you want the message of Christianity, here it is:

Luke 24
25He [Jesus] said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Luke 24
36While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
37They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Jesus, himself, is the message of the Christian faith.

Given that Jesus is the message, your other questions as to what makes the most sense to us human beings is really irrelevant. If we were trying to create religion to please and make sense to the minds of man it would be important. But that is not what we are about. We are trying to present the truth as revealed to us, and that is that Jesus is indeed fully God/fully human, that humans are creatures fallen from divine grace unable to reach God on their own merit, but that the atoning sacrifice of Christ on the cross is credited to those who believe in him so that God the Father views us with the righteousness of his Son who takes our sins upon himself and then cancells them out.

Again, I am not saying I expect anyone to believe it to be true if you do not wish to. But, do understand, that this is the message, and if anyone tells you different, even if that person claims to be a prophet of God, then they are speaking falsely. I don't say that to be offensive, but because this is the truth for those who ask about the message in Christianity -- the subject of this thread.

 

[Count DeSheep]

2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?

Me thinks that Jesus's sacrifice applies to all humans, no matter what time period they lived in.

I don't have time to answer 3, as lunch is almost over, and question 1 is something a preacher should answer.

 

[Keltoi]

Whether or not Christianity and the Trinity makes "sense" to a non-Christian is completely irrelevant. Yes, it is something that can't be easily understood without educating yourself on the issue, and even then there are things that human beings simply aren't able to get their head around. I can't fully understand all that is God, or all that God is capable of or part of. Whether or not a "tabula rasa" human would pick Christianity over another factors in not at all.

 

[barnabyls]

There appears to be no answer to your 2nd question as regards 'before Christ'. I leave that in the hands of God and am concerned with 'Today'. As to who has gone or who goes to Heaven or Hell, who am I, or anyone else on earth, to determine what God's judgement was or will be? To do that would be to dare to put myself alongside God !!!

 

[Iwant2no2]

If one reads the Bible then one comes to his own understanding that Jesus had a message.

And if the Bible is not a mesage from G-d then what is it?

I feel all books are/were written and made by man, and woman too, even what people call their holy religious books!

I would like someone to give and REAL TRUTHFUL answer to this question...

Question!! How can anyone truly really, really say, and know for a fact that a book came from a God? :?

Take care....

 

[vpb]

signs and common sense, you just study the world around you.

 

[Iwant2no2]

some questions to christians,

1. What criteria do you use (in christianity) to define if a message is a true message from God ?

2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?
3. and also did the prophets that are mentioned in Bible teach trinity? (i'm refering to the prophets before Jesus was born).

I think this should help answer # 2.
THIS is coming out of The Old Testament - Isaiah: 53: 3-6

The Christian Bible says the Old Testament had in fact heard about Jesus before he came, they just didn’t know his name. It’s who he was and what he did that’s important, rather than whether we’ve met him or not (cos hey, we haven’t met him either!).

Isaiah: 53: 3-6
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.


Take care....

 

[Grace Seeker]

I feel all books are/were written and made by man, and woman too, even what people call their holy religious books!

I would like someone to give and REAL TRUTHFUL answer to this question...

Question!! How can anyone truly really, really say, and know for a fact that a book came from a God? :?

Take care....

What makes you think that previous answers weren't real and truthful? If you are asking a personal question, as to how anyone can know something, you'll simply have to take their word for it, that what they answer is how they have come to know that particular thing. It may not help you to know anything at all, but that does not mean it is not how they came to know what they know. We all learn in different ways.

I might also add, it may depend on what you mean by "know". I'm not just playing sematics like it were a game. Semantics is all about the meaning of words. I know many things. I know 2+2=4. I know that George W. Bush is president of the United States. I know that it is mild weather today where I live. I know I like ice cream. I know I love my wife. I know my children. I know my wife. Do you know what I mean? These are all different types of knowing. Some have to do with comprehension, some have to do with undertstanding, some have to do with experiencing, some have to do with relationship, and some are simply what in Spanish we would call "caxai" - i.e. Do you get it? that has to do not with mental understanding but gut level getting of the point.

As to how I know that something is from God, I know because I have the conviction of the Holy Spirit that affirms this to be true. And I know that other things are not for the same reason.

Now, that will not establish scientific proof, but in a court room, if I said that I knew something to be true of my wife because I know my wife, that evidence would be admissable and would be part of what decideds the case. You may question it, but this is the verdict of the church, the whole body of Christ, that those books known as Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 2 Kings, 1 Chronicles, 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalm, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, Jude, and Revelation or collectively called the Bible are indeed a record of God's self-revelation of himself to human kind, profitable for education regarding the person and nature of God, the fallen situation of humankind, God's plan and work of salvation, directions for righteous living on earth and how to relate to one another, and to gain some understanding of life in the world to come. As I said, you may question the verdict, but the verdict will remain unchanged. We have accepted the testimony of others that they did indeed know God and wrote of that experience under the direction of the Holy Spirit. And by our own personal experience we have come to know that testimony as reliable as well.

 

[Grace Seeker]

some questions to christians,

1. What criteria do you use (in christianity) to define if a message is a true message from God ?

2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?
3. and also did the prophets that are mentioned in Bible teach trinity? (i'm refering to the prophets before Jesus was born).

1. The discerning guidance of the Holy Spirit.

2a. Jesus' sacrifice was once for all -- those present, those before, and those who would come later.
2b. That depends on if they are recipients of God's grace or not, just as is true of any other person. Romans 4:3 tells us that "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." But continue on and you will read: (Romans 4:23-24) "The words 'it was credited to him' were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead." So, in my view we have an unlimited atonement -- that is Christ's sacrifice is good for any and everyone, even those who do not believe. It is also unconditional, in that it offered to all. But there is a conditional application of it, in that only those who receive it, and this is done by faith that God can do for us what we cannot do for ourselves, actually experience the assurance of living in the promise of God to save us. Others may or may not be save also, I don't know, that is for God in God's grace to determine, not me.

3. No one in the Bible teaches the Trinity. The concept of the Trintiy was not created as a concept until 200-300 years after the Bible was completed. But yes, the prophets of the Bible did teach truths about God that when organized into a systematic theology or doctrinal statement are labeled the doctrine of the Trinity.

Think of it like this, when Henry Ford built his first car it was not a Ford Motor Company car, but it was still a Ford. The label was something that was applied to the finished concept after people had digested the teachings and discovered in them and their experience that the one God existed in three persons, yet just one being. But, the teachings themselves were not about the Trinity, they were simply about God.

 

[NoName55]

al habeshi,
why do u write G-d instead of God? Curious.

I do not know why Br. al habeshi does it, but I can tell you why I do it.

I prefer to use word Allah, if I have to use G-d it is because when you put an o in then if you are an Urdu, Hebrew or arabic reader, your mind might picture the word beginning from righthand, then nahudobillah it does not look good.

 

[vpb]

answer to the first question is not sufficient to answer what I asked but never mind

3. No one in the Bible teaches the Trinity. The concept of the Trintiy was not created as a concept until 200-300 years after the Bible was completed. But yes, the prophets of the Bible did teach truths about God that when organized into a systematic theology or doctrinal statement are labeled the doctrine of the Trinity.

so what did those Prophets (Abraham, Noah, Joseph etc..) teach people about God, i mean how did they explain God to people (if they didn't directly introduced the doctrinal statement labeled trinity)??? how did they described God??
my opinion is that they must have mentioned that God is in 3 states and that he has a son. bc they can't say something about God, and then Jesus comes and teach something different from them. bc that's why you need to know how this people explained God, so you can compare it to what Jesus said and match it, bc if it doesn't match then there is either mistakes on the stories of the prophets(which tells what they said about God) or there are mistakes on the message of Jesus.(God cannot make mistake in describing himself) and this links back to the first question. but i don't know if bible tells you what Noah, Abraham, Joseph.... said exactly about God, but if not then how come you decide for the message of Jesus (the paying of the sins with blood and what he taught ...etc.) is truthfull and exactly what in reality Jesus preached ?? how do you know if that is in accordance with the previous messages of the prophets, if it matches or not?

for example (sorry for taking this kind of stupid example lol),
in order to have a normal life, there should be either a man and a woman, or a n animal and an animal, it can't be an animal and a woman or a an animal and a man. so what jesus said and what those prophets said have to match.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I hope English is your native language, for in my next sentence prepositions are going to be VERY important.

The Bible isn't a revelation about God, it is the revelation of God.

In other words it helps us to know God by experiencing and relating to God. It is not so interested in information that one could write on a test. Knowing God is more like marriage, Jesus talks about the Marriage feast of the Lamb in the last days, than it is about learning a message.

 

[vpb]

english is my second language.

The Bible isn't a revelation about God, it is the revelation of God.

yes but doesn't that relevation of God contains information about God himself?
if not then you don't know anything about your lord, and if yes then it goes back to my above post.

 

[Grace Seeker]

english is my second language.



yes but doesn't that relevation of God contains information about God himself?
if not then you don't know anything about your lord, and if yes then it goes back to my above post.

It does in the same way that living with a person contains information about that person. Living with a person actually helps you to know them better than a biography would, but that doesn't mean that there is a "message" to share with those who are outside the relationship.

I have a sense that I am not being helpful, but your question about the message just doesn't fit the way we relate to God. I'm sorry, if I leave you frustrated for a better answer.

 

[vpb]

I have a sense that I am not being helpful, but your question about the message just doesn't fit the way we relate to God.

why doesn't the question fit the way you relate to God? Bible teaches you about God, it also teaches you about the previous Prophets, i just asked if how bible describes God matches with how those Prophets described God? why doesn't it fit? what's up with that? but anyways i don't feel frustrated this is a forum, it's only about knowledge

 

[Grace Seeker]

Well, maybe it's me handling too many questions today.

What we know of God comes from the recorded history of God's interaction with his people, including the prophets and others. But the Bible does not have a message from Abraham about God. Rather it is a narrative of Abraham's life. The same with with respect to Adam and David.

Now, someone like Moses did in fact receive word from God to tell the people. Likewise the prophets like Jonah, Isaiah, Habbakuk, and Malachi (among others), but that message was typically related to how to live in relationship with God and each other more than it was about the nature and character of God. That word was what was given to Moses.

The Old Testament, known as the Tanakh by the Jews, is a decidely monothesistic book. There is one God and him only shall you serve type thing. Yet, though Jews did not see it then, nor acknowledge it today, Christians do see in many of the writings signs that the multifaceted nature of the one God. In the story of creation, God says, "Let us make man in our image." This plural pronoun in reference to God is repeated twice more in the book of Genesis. And then in the call of Isaiah it is at its most pronounced state:

Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord [singular] saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us [plural]?"

Moreover, in reading the whole of the Bible (not just a single verse) one can see that all three persons of the Godhead were involved in the act of creation. In Genesis 1:2 we are told that it was the "Spirit" of God that hovered over the waters. In Colossians 1:16 we are told that all things were created by and fpr the Son. And in Hebrews 1:2 we are told the Father made the universe through the Son.

So, it isn't something that anyone stood up and announced that the one God exists in three persons, it was something that the disciples of Jesus discovered through experiencing it, and then looking back could see that there had been foreshadowings of this truth that they did not understand until the moment they experienced it for themselves.

Maybe that helps more. I hope so, cause I think that is about the best I can do for today.

 

[vpb]

lol. it's the same loop over and over again that I get.

And in Hebrews 1:2 we are told the Father made the universe through the Son.

this raises a lot of other questions. but anyways i gotta go now to sleep, cuz it's late for me

thx for your contribution.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

salaam,
Question for the Christians:
If Jesus died for your sins, then can a Christian do whatever they please and still be free from sin as long as they believe that Jesus is their savior???

 

[Keltoi]

salaam,
Question for the Christians:
If Jesus died for your sins, then can a Christian do whatever they please and still be free from sin as long as they believe that Jesus is their savior???

If a Christian did what they pleased they wouldn't believe Jesus was their Savior. Salvation is something that is sought, not freely given. Jesus Christ suffered upon the cross to give mankind the chance of salvation through Him. To answer your question, no.

 

[Grace Seeker]

salaam,
Question for the Christians:
If Jesus died for your sins, then can a Christian do whatever they please and still be free from sin as long as they believe that Jesus is their savior???

Yes and no.


No -- To intentionally go out and sin, is to break trust with God in Jesus Christ. Again, as I tried to state above. For the Christian belief is not belief about God, it is having a relationship with God. Therefore faith is about trust, not knowledge. So, you can know that Jesus died for your sin, but if you don't trust him enough to live your life in accordance with his will, then you are as much out of the relationship as Adam was separated from God in the garden.

Yes -- If we are truly desiring to living in that trust relationship with God through Jesus Christ, but fail to do so perfectly, then we can continue to trust in God's mercy that our sins are forgiven.

btw, the same would be true of non-Christians. Living on one's own merits apart from God, you can live the perfect life and you are still apart from God. But no matter how terrible your past is, if one humbles one's self to submit to living in this trust relationship with God through Jesus Christ, then one has the complete assurance that God will receive that individual with grace and mercy.


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Now you might find this strange. But I see Keltoi posted while I was still writing. Having read his answer, I agree with it 100%. Though we worded our answers differently, I don't see his answer as differing from mine.