Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

[NoName55]

Well actually I wasn't talking about Sikhs in my post. I was simply asking his opinion about who among those groups was a true follower.

But you bring up a good point to discuss.

Does the physical suffering really mean anything to someone who believes in truth?

I will not suffer until my soul suffers. If I am truthful, my soul will only suffer when I go against the truth.

So physical suffering doesn't mean much to those whose whose soul is intact. That's why I was him what he meant by suffering. Those who fight for truth will never suffer.

I was just wondering that is all.

So its alright for them to endure physical suffering.

cheers

I myself weep when i see suffering whether it is inflicted on Khalsa or Muslim, but am not in any position to help them (being old and decrepit)

 

[cali dude]

Yes, but that still isn't sufficient. Imagine how heartbroken the person might be? Doesn't society care about the peoples emotions? Or is everything simply money?

Islaam respects family ties and we have limits praise be to Allaah, whereas there are hardly any limits in the societies we live in.

Even if it's to do with economy, or if it's to do with any matter - it still doesn't limit them. So they can run away etc. without keeping any contact with their families and they don't face any consequences. Even if these people kept them and brought them up with their wealth, time and what they had for X amount of years.

Well does care and there are a lot of care centers for the elderly whose kids don't take care of them.

Oh, so just because islaam never prohibited marriage - period, to cousins - it never brought any civilization whatsoever? Wow, that's surprising.

Did you know that sikhism never did nothing to the world because it never prohibited people getting married to others who have aids? (No offence to anyone who does.) [You see how dumb that sounds now?]

No actually you are wrong. Since there is no lust in Sikhi, that means there are not supposed to be any premarital relationships.

The answers here:

You don't have an answer as to who is the best Muslim among those people who will take control at the end. Just giving quotes from Quran won't decide who's the best Muslim.

Who said i moved to the west? Was it you who immigrated or your parents?

Well although young but I was the one who immigrated with parents. So I wasn't born here. Yes I do worry about some of the stuff I don't want my kids to learn as well. So, I see it fit, I will stay here and if I don't, I will go back. But I do not condemn Americans for living their lives as they wish.

 

[cali dude]

Noname55,

By the way, I am not a Khalsa nor I am good enough to be one...

 

[- Qatada -]

Well does care and there are a lot of care centers for the elderly whose kids don't take care of them.

Well how about the child who was brought up by these parents with love, and care for so long. They spent all that they had, they even gave their time for this child - yet this child abandons them at the time when they need the most help.

That isn't fair. And the government still doesn't stop this kind of evil.

No actually you are wrong. Since there is no lust in Sikhi, that means there are not supposed to be any premarital relationships.

What's that got to do with what i said? We were talking about marriages to cousins, not about lust. And i know that pre-marital sex isn't permitted in islaam either. So.. i don't understand how this comes into it.

You don't have an answer as to who is the best Muslim among those people who will take control at the end. Just giving quotes from Quran won't decide who's the best Muslim.

I gave the description to what the leader should follow, if they follow that way - then we can follow them. I don't need to mention names specifically.


The Messenger of Allaah said: "I counsel you to have Taqwaa of Allaah and to hear and obey, even if an Abyssinian [Ethiopian] slave were to command you. For, verily, whoever amongst you lives (to grown old), he will see many differences. So stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided khaleefahs. Cling tightly onto it and hold onto it with your molar teeth. And beware of newly invented matters. For, indeed, every newly invented matter is an innovation, and every innovation is a thing that leads astray, and everything that leads astray is in the Hellfire." 2


These are Authenticated Prophetic sayings by the way, and not the Qur'an itself.

Well although young but I was the one who immigrated with parents. So I wasn't born here. Yes I do worry about some of the stuff I don't want my kids to learn as well. So, I see it fit, I will stay here and if I don't, I will go back. But I do not condemn Americans for living their lives as they wish.

I never said i will take over and apply the islamic law, but there are many many flaws and injustice within these lands. So the point being that i don't take all their 'morals' either.

 

[cali dude]

Well how about the child who was brought up by these parents with love, and care for so long. They spent all that they had, they even gave their time for this child - yet this child abandons them at the time when they need the most help.

That isn't fair. And the government still doesn't stop this kind of evil.

Well the Govt does whatever feasible, i.e. help developing shelters. Govt can't really force the kids to take care of kids.

What's that got to do with what i said? We were talking about marriages to cousins, not about lust. And i know that pre-marital sex isn't permitted in islaam either. So.. i don't understand how this comes into it.

You said that Sikhi didn't do anything about Sikhs marrying people with AIDS. Since there is no lust, there are no premarital relationships, thus no sex before marriage, thus no STDs or AIDS unless caused in some other ways...

 

[- Qatada -]

Well the Govt does whatever feasible, i.e. help developing shelters. Govt can't really force the kids to take care of kids.

That's due to a lack of faith of the people. Muslims expect to be rewarded for doing good to please God. That's what's lacking in non muslim legislations and unfortunately even in some muslim lands today, and that's one of the reasons why the politicians may do things which may be unjust.

They feel that they don't have any other authority who they have to work under, whereas the ones who submit to God [as muslims] know that Allaah is watching over them, and they are responsible for their actions in the sight of Allaah. So they strive to implement just/fair laws, expecting to be rewarded by Him. Whereas those who be unjust can be warned that they will be raised back to God - the One who gave them life, and they will be questioned on all that they did.

Praise be to Allaah, He will judge between His slaves on what they differ.

You said that Sikhi didn't do anything about Sikhs marrying people with AIDS. Since there is no lust, there are no premarital relationships, thus no sex before marriage, thus no STDs or AIDS unless caused in some other ways...

Yeah, but there are ways in which aids can spread without intercourse outside of marriage. I.e. through blood. I never said sikhis don't help those who are in need of it, rather i used your logic by claiming that civilization wasn't succesful, just because it never prohibited a certain act, just because it was doubtful in some situations [and not even all.]



Regards.

 

[cali dude]

By the way, we might have forgotten to mention but there are certain family behaviors among all people of Indian or even Asian background, i.e. respecting your parents and loving your children. So it isn't exclusively Muslim tradition.

Yeah, but there are ways in which aids can spread without intercourse outside of marriage. I.e. through blood. I never said sikhis don't help those who are in need of it, rather i used your logic by claiming that civilization wasn't succesful, just because it never prohibited a certain act, just because it was doubtful in some situations [and not even all.]

Regards.

Well this is very strange comparison. Why would you compare something that's practiced to something that isn't practiced? Marrying first cousin is practiced among Muslims and marrying someone with AIDS is not practiced among Sikhs.

So Muslims keep doing something even though they know it's genetically dangerous. But do you think a Sikh would knowingly marry someone carrying AIDS? Although if they want to, they are free to do so.

When it comes to social civilization, what we have today is what Sikhi preached 500 years ago. For example, all people are equal, regardless of gender, race, caste, or even religion. We finally see people accepting this.

 

[- Qatada -]

By the way, we might have forgotten to mention but there are certain family behaviors among all people of Indian or even Asian background, i.e. respecting your parents and loving your children. So it isn't exclusively Muslim tradition.

These people don't have to follow these 'traditions' and can do exactly the same as any other person by simply turning away and dumping their parents in a home. Or running away etc. Whereas in islaam we have them boundaries layed out for us, praise be to Allaah.

Well this is very strange comparison. Why would you compare something that's practiced to something that isn't practiced? Marrying first cousin is practiced among Muslims and marrying someone with AIDS is not practiced among Sikhs.

So Muslims keep doing something even though they know it's genetically dangerous. But do you think a Sikh would knowingly marry someone carrying AIDS? Although if they want to, they are free to do so.

How strange, i can tell you that i've got an aunty and uncle who are married and cousins (probably because of paki culture) - praise be to Allaah and their children don't have genetic diseases. Wow so kool init?

I think i'll just do the same delete thing like i did before if you keep ignoring what i say:

If we don't want to - we don't have to.


Do you understand that concept?

When it comes to social civilization, what we have today is what Sikhi preached 500 years ago. For example, all people are equal, regardless of gender, race, caste, or even religion. We finally see people accepting this.

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). [Qur'an 49:13]
​

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

When it comes to social civilization, what we have today is what Sikhi preached 500 years ago. For example, all people are equal, regardless of gender, race, caste, or even religion. We finally see people accepting this.

33: 35 Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.
​

1400 years ago :rollseyes

 

[cali dude]

These people don't have to follow these 'traditions' and can do exactly the same as any other person by simply turning away and dumping their parents in a home. Or running away etc. Whereas in islaam we have them boundaries layed out for us, praise be to Allaah.

In Hindu scriptures, it does say that you should respect your parents. But those who don't follow it, don't follow, just like I am pretty sure there are Muslims who don't follow it.

How strange, i can tell you that i've got an aunty and uncle who are married and cousins (probably because of paki culture) - praise be to Allaah and their children don't have genetic diseases. Wow so kool init?

I think i'll just do the same delete thing like i did before if you keep ignoring what i say:

If we don't want to - we don't have to.

Paki culture? How could it be Paki culture when if anything Paki culture must have come from Indian culture, where it's not normal to marry first cousin? But the bottom line here is that you could not compare Muslims marrying first cousin to Sikhs marrying someone with AIDS.

Also when it comes equality of all mankind, Islam doesn't believe the same way Sikhi does. Sikhi believes in equality of all, period, even people of all religions. In Sikhi, you could not discriminate based upon even religion, which I don't believe is true in Islam...

 

[- Qatada -]

In Hindu scriptures, it does say that you should respect your parents. But those who don't follow it, don't follow, just like I am pretty sure there are Muslims who don't follow it.

And maybe the hindus or even sikhis don't believe that they'll be raised back to their Creator to be judged on their actions? Instead their threatened with the 'fact' that they'll become a rat? Along with that - they can't even remember their 'previous life' so they don't even fear to go against the commandments.

Paki culture? How could it be Paki culture when if anything Paki culture must have come from Indian culture, where it's not normal to marry first cousin? But the bottom line here is that you could not compare Muslims marrying first cousin to Sikhs marrying someone with AIDS.

You're mixing two things up purposelly. I said marrying cousins is a culture which is practised alot within the subcontinent.

Marrying someone with aids is a totally different thing, and the reason why i gave that as an example was because you said that islaam never prohibited marriages to cousins [to try to imply that islaam isn't a successful civilization] - with which i replied that there isn't always a threat in cousin marriages anyway so there's nothing wrong with that. And if someone doesn't prefer it - they simply dont have to.

Did i say anywhere that islaam encourages that act? Again, you'll probably twist the words around which you're known for doing quite alot on this thread. That's how its become over 30 pages long.

Also when it comes equality of all mankind, Islam doesn't believe the same way Sikhi does. Sikhi believes in equality of all, period, even people of all religions. In Sikhi, you could not discriminate based upon even religion, which I don't believe is true in Islam...

You're lying, you said sikhis who reach the next level are better. Those who control the vices.

And i've quoted you a verse from Qur'an which clearly states that the best among mankind are those who are the most righteous, and only God can judge that. If a person is righteous in islaam - they actually put themselves lower purposelly because having arrogance/pride in ones heart equal to an atoms weight will prevent one from entering paradise as the Messenger of Allaah himself stated.


You're repeatedly attacking without no knowledge, and simply adding your 'opinion' which doesn't hold much weight at all, because i also have an opinion and this is based on my religious proofs whereas you don't even get your proofs from your own religion.

 

[cali dude]

And maybe the hindus or even sikhis don't believe that they'll be raised back to their Creator to be judged on their actions? Instead their threatened with the 'fact' that they'll become a rat? Along with that - they can't even remember their 'previous life' so they don't even fear to go against the commandments.

Well that's simply your opinion that Sikhs and Hindus don't fear to go against commandment. There are people who follow the scriptures very closely and most Indian families still live in tradition way.

Getting re-incarnated into lower life is also a punishment as you have less chances of being united with God.

You're mixing two things up purposelly. I said marrying cousins is a culture which is practised alot within the subcontinent.

Marrying someone with aids is a totally different thing, and the reason why i gave that as an example was because you said that islaam never prohibited marriages to cousins [to try to imply that islaam isn't a successful civilization] - with which i replied that there isn't always a threat in cousin marriages anyway so there's nothing wrong with that. And if someone doesn't prefer it - they simply dont have to.

Did i say anywhere that islaam encourages that act? Again, you'll probably twist the words around which you're known for doing quite alot on this thread. That's how its become over 30 pages long.

Maybe you an shed some light on how Muslims started marrying their first cousin.

You're lying, you said sikhis who reach the next level are better. Those who control the vices.

And i've quoted you a verse from Qur'an which clearly states that the best among mankind are those who are the most righteous, and only God can judge that. If a person is righteous in islaam - they actually put themselves lower purposelly because having arrogance/pride in ones heart equal to an atoms weight will prevent one from entering paradise as the Messenger of Allaah himself stated.

Yes of course those who have reached the next stage are better than rest of us. But that has nothing to do with religion. Someone could be member of any religious group and still be at the next level. It has nothing to do with religion and it has nothing to do with discrimination based on religion.

It definitely doesn't mean that Sikhs are better than others, only those who have reached the next level are better than rest of us regardless what religious group they belong to.

 

[- Qatada -]

Well that's simply your opinion that Sikhs and Hindus don't fear to go against commandment. There are people who follow the scriptures very closely and most Indian families still live in tradition way.
Getting re-incarnated into lower life is also a punishment as you have less chances of being united with God.

Well if one can't remember their 'previos life' anyway, then i don't really think it's much of a punishment.

Maybe you an shed some light on how Muslims started marrying their first cousin.

It's simple, something which isn't prohibited isn't forbidden.

Yes of course those who have reached the next stage are better than rest of us. But that has nothing to do with religion. Someone could be member of any religious group and still be at the next level. It has nothing to do with religion and it has nothing to do with discrimination based on religion.

It definitely doesn't mean that Sikhs are better than others, only those who have reached the next level are better than rest of us regardless what religious group they belong to.

Well that means you never spoke the truth. We know that God knows who the most righteous among mankind are, and this is why i will quote this verse from the Qur'an again:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). [Qur'an 49:13]
​

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: Questions for Sikhs

Peace to all

Thank you AvarAllahNoor, but I have a Sikh friend and she says that they do worship the ten Gurus because te first question I asked was "do you worship one God?" And she replied by saying "we worship ten Gods" then I explained to her your answer to my previous post and she says she's confused! But hopefully she will give me he answer tomorrow and she told me that teh Guru Granth Sahib is like their God with all the teachings and such. So can you explain to me again and to others do you believe in one God or not? Are the Gurus like people sent on Earth to spread Sikhism or something like that. :?

Peace to all.

Well, here we have the lack of Sikh teachings. Ignorance. This is what the Guru Granth Sahib states at the beggining.

"There is only one God
Truth is his name
He is the creator
He is without fear
He is without hate
He is timeless and without form
He is beyond death, the enlightned one


The Guru's were Prophets (or higher status than Prophets)

No 10 Gods, or anything else, although when I was 6/7 I thought we had 10 Gods too, but that was because the elders in the family didn't have time or knowledge to teach us what exastly Sikhi was. Now the youth have educated themselves and know waht exavtly the Gurus were. They are/were not Gods of anysort. Just messengesr of Allah the Almighty.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Only Sikhs of the world?

if true then why do Khalsa suffer same as Muslims in India?

Well according the the Tenth Guru. he states....

"jab lag khalsa rehe niara, tab lag tej dio mein sara"
If the khalsa will be in rehit (Code of Conduct), God will give all power to him/her.

"jab ih gahai bipran ki reet, mein na karon in ki parteet"
When he/she turns their faces away from the rules, God will not care about him/her anymore!

Also it's the Age Of Darknes (Kalyug) and the would is in turmoil, so it's not just Sikhs who are killed raped, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Shia, Sunii, Jews all umainty is in turmoil. And God alone can decide waht is next, because things are getting worse. Nobody practices love and tolerance anymore. Divorces, affairs illict sex is the ''norm'' today sadly.

May God intervene ASAP I say!

 

[Qurratul Ayn]

Re: Questions for Sikhs

Well, here we have the lack of Sikh teachings. Ignorance. This is what the Guru Granth Sahib states at the beggining.

"There is only one God
Truth is his name
He is the creator
He is without fear
He is without hate
He is timeless and without form
He is beyond death, the enlightned one


The Guru's were Prophets (or higher status than Prophets)

No 10 Gods, or anything else, although when I was 6/7 I thought we had 10 Gods too, but that was because the elders in the family didn't have time or knowledge to teach us what exastly Sikhi was. Now the youth have educated themselves and know waht exavtly the Gurus were. They are/were not Gods of anysort. Just messengesr of Allah the Almighty.

Peace to all

Thank you very much now that has cleared it all but one slight question (hope you don't mind) so you do believe in one God, my friend I have written about saya that she sees the Guru Granth Sahiba like God and they learn from it, so is the Guru Granth Sahib your God or not and do you, personally, refer to the Guru Granth Sahib as your God?

Peace to all.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Fi_Sabilillah can I just point out, you're asking such things as ''sati'' which is a hindu practice and NOT a sikh one. so lets not confuse hinduism with sikhism. or you're doing the work of the hindus.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Re: Questions for Sikhs

Peace to all

Thank you very much now that has cleared it all but one slight question (hope you don't mind) so you do believe in one God, my friend I have written about saya that she sees the Guru Granth Sahiba like God and they learn from it, so is the Guru Granth Sahib your God or not and do you, personally, refer to the Guru Granth Sahib as your God?

Peace to all.

The Guru Granth Sahiba is the WORD of GOD. Not God. Just as the Quran is to the Muslims. It's the praises of the Lord almighty. And it's not worshipped, but is held in reverence. The Shabad is Guru. The Word is Guru. (The sane Word that was with God according to the Bible, and Torah, and I think the Quran.)

Gur Fateh.

 

[Qurratul Ayn]

Peace to all

Thank you very much.

In Gurdwaras, do you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib? My friend does and is it allowed?

Peace to all.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Peace to all

Thank you very much.

In Gurdwaras, do you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib? My friend does and is it allowed?

Peace to all.

Indeed, as it's the Word of God so prostration is allowed. Just as you would do to the Kaaba, or towards it.