Discussion/Questions on Sikhism

Peace to all

Thank you very much.

In Gurdwaras, do you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib? My friend does and is it allowed?

Peace to all.
even though you ignored my last post, I'm still going to try 1 more time to do you a favour >Keep Away<
edit:
There are ten Gurus, 9 men + Guru granth = 10,<<< error correction>>> it is 10+1= 11 gurus

It gets slightly confusing now, doesn't it?


Do not upset them in real life; the small museum inside the Golden temple contains a disturbing set of bloody images and tales of vengeance.
It seems that the message the Sikhs like to put out there is “Sikhs are totally trustworthy and honourable, but don’t offend them or their religion, their honour is sacred and will be defended at all costs.”

Many, many stories of people who somehow mistreated or violated Sikh religion and were then killed by a Sikh in revenge Including Indira. Half-blown-off faces of brave Sikh warriors in this or that honour battle are propped up, photographed, and displayed in this museum.


This is how they get to be with him
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Palace of the Lord God is so beautiful. Within it, there are gems, rubies, pearls and flawless diamonds. A fortress of gold surrounds this Source of Nectar. How can I climb up to the Fortress without a ladder? By meditating on the Lord, through the Guru, I am blessed and exalted. The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord’s Name. The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River. If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure."[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 17)[/FONT]
 
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10 Men and the 11th Guru are the Scrptures. - Please ignore the rantings of the above cretin. He/she/it knows not what it types....
 
Well if one can't remember their 'previos life' anyway, then i don't really think it's much of a punishment. :)
Excuse me? Confusing the heck out me. Punishment is that you have gone farther away from God. In human life, it is lot easier to be united with God, once you are re-incarnated as something other than a human, you have less chances of being united with God. Punishment is to the soul. Punishment is that your soul suffers because it's still separated from God. Not only that, it's further away from God.

It's simple, something which isn't prohibited isn't forbidden. :)
In other words, you can't find out when and why Muslims started marrying their first cousin. But since it's not considered "norms" among rest of the Indians, it must be confined to Muslims only. Look at us. We are Punjabis as well. But we don't marry someone of same surname as us or someone from the same village.

It may have some similar effect as polygamy. It could be out of convenience...

But your statement that Islam brought complete civilization is wrong as marrying first cousin is still practiced among Muslims.

You simply watch. There might not be that many people who know about Sikhi but with the exception of Muslims, most people in the world, knowingly or unknowingly, will be following principle of equality that Sikhi taught.

Well that means you never spoke the truth. We know that God knows who the most righteous among mankind are, and this is why i will quote this verse from the Qur'an again:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). [Qur'an 49:13]

What do you mean I never spoke the truth? Just because you don't understand, it doesn't mean I am lying. Also just because you don't agree with something, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

But please do tell us how what you are saying (quote from Quran) is any different than what I am saying. Then we will see what makes better sense if they are any different.
 
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Noname55,

Sorry but I could not get what point you are trying to make.
I was telling them to stop talking to Sikhs about conversion for it is seen as offensive. But brother no one takes notice of me, some ignore me, while others swear at me. ---
 
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I was telling them to stop talking to Sikhs about conversion for it is seen as offensive. But brother no one takes notice of me, some ignore me, while others swear at me.

Thank you very much for clarifying :). Yes I think your post became confusing because it was edited. I think besides being "disappointed one" as your 'user title' suggests, you are also a "misunderstood one". I know your intent is good but you are misunderstood because of the difference in environment we all grow up in. I sense that you feel close to Sikhs. If I am not mistaken you somewhere said that you were half Kashmiri and half Punjabi. If so, then you feel close to Sikhs for the obvious reasons. But you will find that people who grew up in completely different environment might not have the same views as you and most us did grow up in different environment than each other. So you shouldn't worry about it at all :). It's all dependent on where people grow up.
 
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Excuse me? Confusing the heck out me. Punishment is that you have gone farther away from God. In human life, it is lot easier to be united with God, once you are re-incarnated as something other than a human, you have less chances of being united with God. Punishment is to the soul. Punishment is that your soul suffers because it's still separated from God. Not only that, it's further away from God.

Well why is it so hard to remember ones previous life then? Shouldn't the soul actually tell you your past life so you don't fall into the same traps?


In other words, you can't find out when and why Muslims started marrying their first cousin. But since it's not considered "norms" among rest of the Indians, it must be confined to Muslims only. Look at us. We are Punjabis as well. But we don't marry someone of same surname as us or someone from the same village.

It may have some similar effect as polygamy. It could be out of convenience...

But your statement that Islam brought complete civilization is wrong as marrying first cousin is still practiced among Muslims.

You simply watch. There might not be that many people who know about Sikhi but with the exception of Muslims, most people in the world, knowingly or unknowingly, will be following principle of equality that Sikhi taught.


You think that holds any weight at all? What about the western civilization of today? Does it forbid marriage to cousins? No it doesn't.



What do you mean I never spoke the truth? Just because you don't understand, it doesn't mean I am lying. Also just because you don't agree with something, it doesn't mean it's wrong.

But please do tell us how what you are saying (quote from Quran) is any different than what I am saying. Then we will see what makes better sense if they are any different.


You never because you first said that all people are equal, then you start saying that the 'true sikhis' are better than others - which is contradictory:

When it comes to social civilization, what we have today is what Sikhi preached 500 years ago. For example, all people are equal, regardless of gender, race, caste, or even religion. We finally see people accepting this.

First of all you havn't proved that from your religious sources, so no-one needs to believe it. And secondly, it goes against what you yourself said:

Yes of course those who have reached the next stage are better than rest of us.
 
Fi_Sabilillah can I just point out, you're asking such things as ''sati'' which is a hindu practice and NOT a sikh one. so lets not confuse hinduism with sikhism. or you're doing the work of the hindus. :p


I don't understand what sati is man. The thing is, you should know yourself that according to your religion - if the 10 Gurus really came as the previous messengers did - they called to the obedience of our Creator, and that none is worthy of worship except Him Alone.

We believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the final Prophet of Allaah, and what we see in the Guru Granth Sahib [see the caps :p] - it is praising our Creator, but there aren't exactly any laws, compared to all the previous prophets who recieved laws from Allaah.



Anyway take care.
 
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Well why is it so hard to remember ones previous life then? Shouldn't the soul actually tell you your past life so you don't fall into the same traps?
Apparently, there are people who do remember their previous lives, but they are at the higher spiritual level than us. Every action, karma (good or bad) affects our soul negatively or positively. The state (condition) our soul is in today is based on previous karma. Soul doesn't have to remember our past lives. We simply act upon how the condition of our soul designs our personality. But since we also free will, we can also better ourselves by doing the good karma and we are capable of meditating upon God's name. So we do meditate on God's name and we are accepted by Him, we reach the next level.

You think that holds any weight at all? What about the western civilization of today? Does it forbid marriage to cousins? No it doesn't.
But the nature does. It does tell us that if your have children within family, you kids are more likely to have genetic disorders. So people who do understand this will be careful. But as I understand there are some states in the US that do not allow marriage to first cousin.

You never because you first said that all people are equal, then you start saying that the 'true sikhis' are better than others - which is contradictory:
When I say 'true Sikhi', I am referring to someone who happens to be a Sikh and has reached the next level of spirituality. Yes this is true that those who reached the next level of spirituality are much wiser than rest of us. So would you consider that someone wiser is better? It has nothing to do with what religious group they belong to. Obviously, there were people of Sufi background like Sheikh Farid who got to that level. There were people of Hindus background who reached that next level. So it has nothing at to do with what religious group you belong to, it can happen to anyone.


First of all you havn't proved that from your religious sources, so no-one needs to believe it. And secondly, it goes against what you yourself said:
Well I have too much respect for Gurbani to post it here. But if want you can check it out for yourself. As described above, it doesn't contradict what I said previously.
 
I don't understand what sati is man. The thing is, you should know yourself that according to your religion - if the 10 Gurus really came as the previous messengers did - they called to the obedience of our Creator, and that none is worthy of worship except Him Alone.

We believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the final Prophet of Allaah, and what we see in the Guru Granth Sahib [see the caps :p] - it is praising our Creator, but there aren't exactly any laws, compared to all the previous prophets who recieved laws from Allaah.

Anyway take care.

Sati is when the wife dies with her husband.

Guru Granth Sahib isn't a mere praise of the Creator but Guru Granth Sahib teaches God's law at the spiritual level. Following the law Guru Granth Sahib, one may actually be united with God which we have discussed for a while now. Please keep in mind that I am not convinced that all rules and regulations you, as a Muslim, follow are all positive, whatever positive karma you follow are only good at this human level and will not help you to get to next level of spirituality.
 
Apparently, there are people who do remember their previous lives, but they are at the higher spiritual level than us. Every action, karma (good or bad) affects our soul negatively or positively. The state (condition) our soul is in today is based on previous karma. Soul doesn't have to remember our past lives. We simply act upon how the condition of our soul designs our personality. But since we also free will, we can also better ourselves by doing the good karma and we are capable of meditating upon God's name. So we do meditate on God's name and we are accepted by Him, we reach the next level.


We know that Allaah has created us for no other purpose except that we live our life in obedience to Him. We are tried through hardship and ease to see if we will keep up with that obedience to Him.

Both parties will die, the believers and the disbelievers. Those who believed and did good to please their Creator will have their reward with Him, the Most Merciful, whereas those who reject Him and His signs will be punished because they disobeyed God and rejected His true messengers' calls.


But the nature does. It does tell us that if your have children within family, you kids are more likely to have genetic disorders. So people who do understand this will be careful. But as I understand there are some states in the US that do not allow marriage to first cousin.


Well that's upto them, you take many of your morals from this society as you've mentioned many times in the thread. Which means you probably take this 'civilization' in high self-esteem, therefore you probably think its a successful one too.

If that's the case, then just because they havn't prohibited marriage to all cousins in all states - that it isn't a civilization.


Which is the main reason we're discussing the marriage of cousins. You're saying it as if islaam doesn't allow marriages outside of the relatives such as cousins. That's just like saying islaam allows people to ride camels whereas if one doesn't like that - they can drive cars instead. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, so we can take a pick praise be to Allaah.


When I say 'true Sikhi', I am referring to someone who happens to be a Sikh and has reached the next level of spirituality. Yes this is true that those who reached the next level of spirituality are much wiser than rest of us. So would you consider that someone wiser is better? It has nothing to do with what religious group they belong to. Obviously, there were people of Sufi background like Sheikh Farid who got to that level. There were people of Hindus background who reached that next level. So it has nothing at to do with what religious group you belong to, it can happen to anyone.


Call it 'true human' then because you say that it doesn't matter what religion you belong to. We believe that Allaah has actually set firm guidelines to how we live our life, whether its from how to run a whole state to how to treat one's child. Praise be to Him. Otherwise we'd always be in doubt.


Well I have too much respect for Gurbani to post it here. But if want you can check it out for yourself. As described above, it doesn't contradict what I said previously.


I thought it was only in punjabi, but anyway it's upto you if you want to or not.
 
Sati is when the wife dies with her husband.

Guru Granth Sahib isn't a mere praise of the Creator but Guru Granth Sahib teaches God's law at the spiritual level. Following the law Guru Granth Sahib, one may actually be united with God which we have discussed for a while now. Please keep in mind that I am not convinced that all rules and regulations you, as a Muslim, follow are all positive, whatever positive karma you follow are only good at this human level and will not help you to get to next level of spirituality.


It would have been kool if they were actually in other languages aswell instead of simply for the punjabi talking people. If it's really God's message - atleast it should be for all of mankind, and if you don't agree with the islamic laws - then that's upto you because you havn't actually brought forth any solid evidence for any of your claims.


Regards.
 
سلام علیکم

It would have been kool if they were actually in other languages aswell instead of simply for the punjabi talking people. .....
I have acces to an english translation

They say:
There is no Difference Between the Creator and the Creation

The Creation is in the Creator (God), and the Creator is in the Creation,
totally pervading and permeating all places (sggs 1350).

We say:
There is a Difference Between the Creator and the Creation

The Creator is outside His creation.
 
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:sl:

And they will never be able to bring a shred of evidence for their claims.

22: 3. And among mankind is he who disputes concerning Allah, without knowledge, and follows every rebellious (disobedient to Allah) Shaitan (devil) (devoid of each and every kind of good).

4. For him (the devil) it is decreed that whosoever follows him, he will mislead him, and will drive him to the torment of the Fire.
 
We know that Allaah has created us for no other purpose except that we live our life in obedience to Him. We are tried through hardship and ease to see if we will keep up with that obedience to Him.

Both parties will die, the believers and the disbelievers. Those who believed and did good to please their Creator will have their reward with Him, the Most Merciful, whereas those who reject Him and His signs will be punished because they disobeyed God and rejected His true messengers' calls.
and the believer doesn't mean someone who follows Islam. That's something you might think but that's not necessarily true. A believer is someone who follows the path of truth and s/he could belong to any religious group.

Well that's upto them, you take many of your morals from this society as you've mentioned many times in the thread. Which means you probably take this 'civilization' in high self-esteem, therefore you probably think its a successful one too.

If that's the case, then just because they havn't prohibited marriage to all cousins in all states - that it isn't a civilization.


Which is the main reason we're discussing the marriage of cousins. You're saying it as if islaam doesn't allow marriages outside of the relatives such as cousins. That's just like saying islaam allows people to ride camels whereas if one doesn't like that - they can drive cars instead. They both have their advantages and disadvantages, so we can take a pick praise be to Allaah.
People are learning the truth with time. The truth is civilization. Now it does not mean what the society practices today is the whole truth. But people are learning more about truth. But some of the religions become obstacles and keep brainwashing people against the truth.

Call it 'true human' then because you say that it doesn't matter what religion you belong to. We believe that Allaah has actually set firm guidelines to how we live our life, whether its from how to run a whole state to how to treat one's child. Praise be to Him. Otherwise we'd always be in doubt.

I thought it was only in punjabi, but anyway it's upto you if you want to or not.
"True human" could be interpreted in many different ways. But when we refer to them as "true Sikhs", we know that these people are on the same path as those saints and gurus who writings are included in Guru Granth Sahib.
 
سلام علیکم

I have acces to an english translation

They say:
There is no Difference Between the Creator and the Creation

The Creation is in the Creator (God), and the Creator is in the Creation,
totally pervading and permeating all places (sggs 1350).

We say:
There is a Difference Between the Creator and the Creation

The Creator is outside His creation.

It was Bhagat Kabir who said Khaalak khalak khalak mein khaalak meaning what you said above. I believe he was born as a Muslim and was raised by a Hindu couple. So he was aware of both Hinduism and Islam but he didn't go with any of them.
 
and the believer doesn't mean someone who follows Islam. That's something you might think but that's not necessarily true. A believer is someone who follows the path of truth and s/he could belong to any religious group.


Not really, i was referring to it in the islamic context. :) Believing in all of God's Messengers who called to the worship of God without associating no partners with Him.


People are learning the truth with time. The truth is civilization. Now it does not mean what the society practices today is the whole truth. But people are learning more about truth. But some of the religions become obstacles and keep brainwashing people against the truth.


Is that so? I'm sure illicit intercourse was a taboo some time back, now they're advancing right? Or are they going more backwards and saying humans are simply animals?


"True human" could be interpreted in many different ways. But when we refer to them as "true Sikhs", we know that these people are on the same path as those saints and gurus who writings are included in Guru Granth Sahib.


The Guru Granth Sahib doesn't define what is wrong or right, its just a vage overlook of their understanding on spirituality like you stated yourself - it has no rulings. :)
 
:sl:

And they will never be able to bring a shred of evidence for their claims.

22: 3. And among mankind is he who disputes concerning Allah, without knowledge, and follows every rebellious (disobedient to Allah) Shaitan (devil) (devoid of each and every kind of good).

4. For him (the devil) it is decreed that whosoever follows him, he will mislead him, and will drive him to the torment of the Fire.

Please elaborate on this what you are trying to say. What kind of evidence you need? Just because you don't get it, it doesn't mean it isn't true.

People are born based upon their own karma. Some people didn't do good enough karma to have ability to understand the truth.
 
Please elaborate on this what you are trying to say. What kind of evidence you need?

I think you know very well what I'm trying to say :) I don't need any evidence, I know my Religion. If you have lost your religion, go out and look for it. :)

Just because you don't get it, it doesn't mean it isn't true.
After all, there can only one thing that is the Truth, everything that is not in accordance to it is false. So the same applies to you :)

People are born based upon their own karma. Some people didn't do good enough karma to have ability to understand the truth.
Nice. I was probably a beetle in 'previous life' then :rollseyes
 

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