Guru Nanak Dev Ji a Muslim....?

[cali dude]

What you posted had nothing to do what I was saying in my post.

In your previous post, you said that the pain was physical even in so-called paradise. So, my reply was pain didn't have to be physical. It could be spiritual as well. You may have noticed that sometimes, there is nothing wrong with us physically but we still feel the pain or we feel sad. This could be our mind and soul bothering us.

You are not sure whether or not your virtual body in paradise will have brain and since physical pain can only be felt only if it gets registered in brain, you may not feel the physical pain in paradise. But if you believe that the soul lives on, one thing for sure soul will always suffer if not united with God.

But you are right that heart softens with God. However just because you are religious, since there is no guarantee that your heart is soft, there is no guarantee that you are closer to God. Someone who is isn't even religious or even doesn't even believe in God can be softhearted than a religious person, thus be closer to God. Do you actually think those religious people causing all this religious violence are any closer to God than a good non-religious person?

I can't stress enough that there is a better way to live than what you call Islamic way...

 

[- Qatada -]

What you posted had nothing to do what I was saying in my post.

In your previous post, you said that the pain was physical even in so-called paradise. So, my reply was pain didn't have to be physical. It could be spiritual as well. You may have noticed that sometimes, there is nothing wrong with us physically but we still feel the pain or we feel sad. This could be our mind and soul bothering us.

You are not sure whether or not your virtual body in paradise will have brain and since physical pain can only be felt only if it gets registered in brain, you may not feel the physical pain in paradise. But if you believe that the soul lives on, one thing for sure soul will always suffer if not united with God.

All you're doing is getting into the philosophy of the greeks and questioning something which hasn't been stated in the evidences, either in my religion or yours.


If God can create us physically out of nothing in this world - He can create us physically again in the hereafter, its as simple as that. And if you going to take this philosophical stuff seriosly - then your in much more doubt since you can't even explain how the person 'unites with God' and can only use the example of emotional love.

Being emotionally in love doesn't mean the person has become the other, and loving God does not mean the person becomes God. But thats what you're stating according to Sikhism, and whats even more ironic is that Avar has a totally different perception to you, i wonder why that may be? Maybe because you're stating your opinions instead of quoting your scripture.

But you are right that heart softens with God. However just because you are religious, since there is no guarantee that your heart is soft, there is no guarantee that you are closer to God. Someone who is isn't even religious or even doesn't even believe in God can be softhearted than a religious person, thus be closer to God. Do you actually think those religious people causing all this religious violence are any closer to God than a good non-religious person?

I can't stress enough that there is a better way to live than what you call Islamic way...

Someone who doesn't even know what God wants off His servants - how can they even know how to purify their heart? You know the Creator by believing in His Messenger, and submitting to Him. Otherwise the person wanders in darkness without knowing what is right or wrong.

Maybe if you could actually prove, yes i mean prove that what Islaam says is wrong - you would be able to 'help me' on my way to 'salvation'? But like you keep doing so much times on the forum - you simply state that islaam is wrong because of people who are doing it under the banner of islaam, even though islaam prohibits them acts i.e. the killing of women, children, seniors etc in the battlefield. And whenever we quote you certain actions commited by Sikhi's, you simply turn around and claim that they're not really sikhis. Then what are they? And why do you use that if i've told you that the acts some muslims do aren't part of islaam either?

 

[cali dude]

All you're doing is getting into the philosophy of the greeks and questioning something which hasn't been stated in the evidences, either in my religion or yours.

If God can create us physically out of nothing in this world - He can create us physically again in the hereafter, its as simple as that. And if you going to take this philosophical stuff seriosly - then your in much more doubt since you can't even explain how the person 'unites with God' and can only use the example of emotional love.

Being emotionally in love doesn't mean the person has become the other, and loving God does not mean the person becomes God. But thats what you're stating according to Sikhism, and whats even more ironic is that Avar has a totally different perception to you, i wonder why that may be? Maybe because you're stating your opinions instead of quoting your scripture.

I am pretty sure you are aware of the process this body is created. You have to have parents to have this body and then this body grows with time. God didn't just create even this body as an adult. Do you think you are going to have parents in paradise?

Merging souls makes much better sense than creating bodies in paradise. We can only give you examples of soul could merge into God's spirit but it's really up to your own perception to understand how it could be. If you can't understand it, then that's really God's will. I have tried to express this to you many times and you keep asking the same question over and over again.

Someone who doesn't even know what God wants off His servants - how can they even know how to purify their heart? You know the Creator by believing in His Messenger, and submitting to Him. Otherwise the person wanders in darkness without knowing what is right or wrong.

Maybe if you could actually prove, yes i mean prove that what Islaam says is wrong - you would be able to 'help me' on my way to 'salvation'? But like you keep doing so much times on the forum - you simply state that islaam is wrong because of people who are doing it under the banner of islaam, even though islaam prohibits them acts i.e. the killing of women, children, seniors etc in the battlefield. And whenever we quote you certain actions commited by Sikhi's, you simply turn around and claim that they're not really sikhis. Then what are they? And why do you use that if i've told you that the acts some muslims do aren't part of islaam either?

Some time God just gives people the spiritual wisdom even though they don't believe in any organized religion and then there are people who follow organized religion blindly and don't get anywhere.

We have talked about this many times for a long time. For you just because a girl has reached puberty, you, as a Muslim, think that you somehow has right have lust for her and to marry her, even if you are a married man. I, on the other hand, look at her my younger sister or even niece and there is no way I could ever have lust towards her.

Now you tell me what's better way of life? Having lust towards her or treating her like a younger sister or a niece? This is a simple one difference between your lifestyle as a Muslim and my lifestyle as simple an ordinary person...

 

[- Qatada -]

I am pretty sure you are aware of the process this body is created. You have to have parents to have this body and then this body grows with time. God didn't just create even this body as an adult. Do you think you are going to have parents in paradise?

The dwellers of paradise will be in the form of Adam, did you know that Allaah created Adam with His own hands? His hands are not like the creations, so please don't try to use aristotle again.

So Adam was created and he never went through the 'baby stage' - he was created as an adult and therefore Allaah can easily create new bodies for our souls again that way.

Merging souls makes much better sense than creating bodies in paradise. We can only give you examples of soul could merge into God's spirit but it's really up to your own perception to understand how it could be. If you can't understand it, then that's really God's will. I have tried to express this to you many times and you keep asking the same question over and over again.

Well this is the point you're all striving for, maybe if it made sense people would be happy to do that. But even if we ignored the issue of 'merging' together, then what are the consequences of that, because if something unites - then it becomes that, so you're claiming that god's creation becomes god itself. Which means according to Sikhism, god isn't whole, hence it means that the sikhi god isn't complete. So that really isn't even God. This is what happens when you try to use human logic to compare God to the creation.

Some time God just gives people the spiritual wisdom even though they don't believe in any organized religion and then there are people who follow organized religion blindly and don't get anywhere.

So you believe that God would send a disorganized religion? Or no religion at all?

We have talked about this many times for a long time. For you just because a girl has reached puberty, you, as a Muslim, think that you somehow has right have lust for her and to marry her, even if you are a married man. I, on the other hand, look at her my younger sister or even niece and there is no way I could ever have lust towards her.

Now you tell me what's better way of life? Having lust towards her or treating her like a younger sister or a niece? This is a simple one difference between your lifestyle as a Muslim and my lifestyle as simple an ordinary person...

Is that because you can't attack the concept of belief? Is that your little excuse for not accepting islaam? Because now that we've proven that there are no contradictions in islaam, killing innocents in the battlefield isn't permissible, that forced conversions isn't part of islaam either, you want to always run to this subject?

Havn't you read our statement that the marriage isn't valid if the female doesn't agree with that?

If she's 'just reached puberty' then what proves that she isn't ready for marriage. Who has more say, a contemporary non muslim female author or you? It's either one of you guys right? She proves her work with research and scientific facts, but whats the proof for your claim? Bring any of this and if you don't - then that just proves you're wrong. And anyone who's reading this will know that too.


Here's my proof, you bring yours:


Some modern female authors say:

Puberty is defined as the age or period at which a person is first capable of sexual reproduction, in other eras of history, a rite or celebration of this landmark event was a part of the culture. (Rites of Passage: Puberty, by Sue Curewitz Arthen)


"Getting your period" marks a rite of passage for young girls entering womanhood. (From the Women's Resource Center)


​

Another contemporary reference relating marriage age to puberty is an article on Central Africa, which says:

. . . women marry soon after puberty4.


​

There are many other references which should prove to any intelligent person what anthropologists and historians already know: in centuries past, people were considered ready for marriage when they reached puberty.


It should be mentioned that from an Islamic point of view, many problems in society today can be traced back to the abandonment of early marriage. Due to the way that Almighty God has created man and woman, i.e., with strong sexual desires, people should marry young. In the past, this was even more true since life expectancy was very low (i.e. you were considered "old" if you made it to 40!) Not only does marriage provide a legal outlet for people with strong sexual desires, but it usually produces more children. One of the main purposes of marriage is to produce children -"be fruitful and multiply" as the Bible says (Genesis 8:17). This was especially important in the past, when people did not live as long as they do now and the infant morality rate was much higher.



Additionally, an article entitled Puberty in Girls by an Australian government Public Health organization, says:

The first sign of puberty is usually a surge of growth: you become taller; your breasts develop; hair begins to grow in the pubic area and under the arms. This may start from 10 years to 14 years - even earlier for some and later for others.
​

An article Physical Changes in Girls During Puberty has this to say:

During puberty, a girl's body changes, inside and out, into the body of a woman. The changes don't come all at once, and they don't happen at the same time for everybody. Most girls start showing physical changes around age 11, but everyone has her own internal schedule for development. It's normal for changes to start as early as 8 or 9 years of age, or not until 13 or 14. Even if nothing looks or feels different yet, the changes may have already begun inside your body.


​

Many will readily agree with the information above, but still might harbour reservations about whether a marriage to an older man could be happy for such a young girl. Putting aside the modern Western notions of "happiness" for a moment, the marriage of cAishah and the Prophet(P) was a mutually happy and loving one as in expressed in numerous hadîth and seerah books. That happy marriages occur between people with a fairly large difference in ages is known among psychologists:

When the differences (in ages) is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen to twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) not, of course, an old (senile) man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious. The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse.7

​

In his comments on the ahadith in Sahîh Muslim which mention cAishah's young marriage to the Prophet(P), cAbdul-Hamîd Siddiqî shows three other reasons for this marriage:
cAishah's marriage to the Prophet Muhammad(P) at an early age allowed her to be an eyewitness to the personal details of his life and carry them on to the succeeding generations. By being both spiritually and physically near to the Prophet(P), the marriage prepared 'Aishah to be an example to all Muslims, especially women, for all times. She developed into a spiritual teacher and scholar, since she was remarkably intelligent and wise. Her qualities help support the Prophet's work and further the cause of Islam. cAishah, the Mother of the Believers, was not only a model for wives and mothers, but she was also a commentator on the Qur'ân, an authority on hadîth and knowledgeable in Islamic Law. She narrated at least 2,210 ahâdîth that give Muslims valuable insights into the Final Prophet's daily life and behaviour, thus preserving the Sunnah of Muhammad(P).

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/aishah.html
​

 

[cali dude]

The dwellers of paradise will be in the form of Adam, did you know that Allaah created Adam with His own hands? His hands are not like the creations, so please don't try to use aristotle again.

So Adam was created and he never went through the 'baby stage' - he was created as an adult and therefore Allaah can easily create new bodies for our souls again that way.

That's simply your belief but it doesn't make sense to me but you are free to believe whatever you want...

Well this is the point you're all striving for, maybe if it made sense people would be happy to do that. But even if we ignored the issue of 'merging' together, then what are the consequences of that, because if something unites - then it becomes that, so you're claiming that god's creation becomes god itself. Which means according to Sikhism, god isn't whole, hence it means that the sikhi god isn't complete. So that really isn't even God. This is what happens when you try to use human logic to compare God to the creation.

Well if you don't get it, there is nothing we can about it. So, leave it...

So you believe that God would send a disorganized religion? Or no religion at all?

God can make anybody spiritually wise with or without any religion. Some people are just born spiritually wise with no religion at all...

Is that because you can't attack the concept of belief? Is that your little excuse for not accepting islaam? Because now that we've proven that there are no contradictions in islaam, killing innocents in the battlefield isn't permissible, that forced conversions isn't part of islaam either, you want to always run to this subject?

Havn't you read our statement that the marriage isn't valid if the female doesn't agree with that?

If she's 'just reached puberty' then what proves that she isn't ready for marriage. Who has more say, a contemporary non muslim female author or you? It's either one of you guys right? She proves her work with research and scientific facts, but whats the proof for your claim? Bring any of this and if you don't - then that just proves you're wrong. And anyone who's reading this will know that too.

If she is not mature enough to decide what's good for her, it really doesn't matter whether she agree to get married. It's simple as that.

But also please answer whether it's better to live in a society where the younger people looked upon as own kids or in a society where younger people are looked as pray of lust.

Just think about it. If people can marry your first cousin, what's stopping them from marrying their own niece? Then how can parents even trust their own family members with their kids?

 

[cali dude]

Is that your little excuse for not accepting islaam?

Are you asking me or trying to convince me to accept Islam? If accepting Islam means submitting to Waheguru, then yes there have accepted Islam. But if Islam means living by beliefs of a Muslim (even a true Muslim), then there is no way, we will ever accept Islam...

 

[- Qatada -]

That's simply your belief but it doesn't make sense to me but you are free to believe whatever you want...

Yes but ours makes sense, yours doesnt. Its merely an opinion which contradicts itself.

Well if you don't get it, there is nothing we can about it. So, leave it...

So it's simply blind following? Just because your forefathers did the same?

God can make anybody spiritually wise with or without any religion. Some people are just born spiritually wise with no religion at all...

The Majority of mankind is in real danger then. Kinda sad.

If she is not mature enough to decide what's good for her, it really doesn't matter whether she agree to get married. It's simple as that.

But also please answer whether it's better to live in a society where the younger people looked upon as own kids or in a society where younger people are looked as pray of lust.

Then she doesn't need to get married.


And anyway define kids? The young woman doesn't get married until seeking permission off her wali/guardian [i.e. father] - so no-one can take advantage of her. Yet at the same time - the young woman doesn't get married except with her permission.

If you ever feel they can get molested, then our sisters have the defence of the hijaab so no perverts can stare at them. See how everything fits into each other, the praise is for Allaah for revealing to His Messenger the wisdom.

Just think about it. If people can marry your first cousin, what's stopping them from marrying their own niece? Then how can parents even trust their own family members with their kids?

The eminent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi wrote about this matter in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:

It is permanently haram [forbidden] for a Muslim man to marry a woman who belongs to one of the following categories:

1. The father's wife, whether divorced or widowed. During the period of jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic era of Ignorance) such marriages were allowed. Then Islam prohibited them, for once a woman is married to a man's father she acquires the status of his mother, and this prohibition is out of honor and respect for the father. Moreover, as this inviolable prohibition leaves no room for sexual attraction between the son and his step-mother, they are able to develop a relationship of respect and honor.

2. The mother, including the grandmothers on both sides.

3. The daughter, including the granddaughters from the son or daughter.

4. The sister, including the half- and step-sisters.

5. The paternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.

6. The maternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.

7. The brother's daughter, i.e., his niece.

8. The sister's daughter, i.e., his niece.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

​

 

[- Qatada -]

Are you asking me or trying to convince me to accept Islam? If accepting Islam means submitting to Waheguru, then yes there have accepted Islam. But if Islam means living by beliefs of a Muslim (even a true Muslim), then there is no way, we will ever accept Islam...

I'm not trying to, i've given the proofs to you - my purpose is to convey the message. Allaah guides the hearts. If islaam was false, you would refute the points, all the praise is for Allaah all your arguments have been refuted.

 

[cali dude]

Yes, and so is yours. Its merely an opinion which contradicts itself.

At least what we know comes from saints and gurus own experience and it does make sense to us spiritually. But it does not matter whether or not it makes sense to you...

So it's simply blind following? Just because your forefathers did the same?

Sikhi makes the most sense of all. So, no it isn't blind faith. I don't believe in blind faith. We have concluded that Sikhi is the best.

The Majority of mankind is in real danger then. Kinda sad.

Religion has done major damage to the mankind. So mankind could be in danger without spiritual wisdom but not without a religion.

Then she doesn't need to get married.


And anyway define kids? The young woman doesn't get married until seeking permission off her wali/guardian [i.e. father] - so no-one can take advantage of her. Yet at the same time - the young woman doesn't get married except with her permission.

If you ever feel they can get molested, then our sisters have the defence of the hijaab so no perverts can stare at them. See how everything fits into each other, the praise is for Allaah for revealing to His Messenger the wisdom.

The eminent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi wrote about this matter in his well-known book, The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam:

It is permanently haram [forbidden] for a Muslim man to marry a woman who belongs to one of the following categories:

1. The father's wife, whether divorced or widowed. During the period of jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic era of Ignorance) such marriages were allowed. Then Islam prohibited them, for once a woman is married to a man's father she acquires the status of his mother, and this prohibition is out of honor and respect for the father. Moreover, as this inviolable prohibition leaves no room for sexual attraction between the son and his step-mother, they are able to develop a relationship of respect and honor.

2. The mother, including the grandmothers on both sides.

3. The daughter, including the granddaughters from the son or daughter.

4. The sister, including the half- and step-sisters.

5. The paternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.

6. The maternal aunt, whether she is the real, half-, or step-sister of the father.

7. The brother's daughter, i.e., his niece.

8. The sister's daughter, i.e., his niece.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/...nglish-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

​

It doesn't matter what excuse you use to marry a little girl, it's much better to treat her as your own daughter or niece instead of having lust for her and marrying her...

 

[cali dude]

I'm not trying to, i've given the proofs to you - my purpose is to convey the message. Allaah guides the hearts. If islaam was false, you would refute the points, all the praise is for Allaah all your arguments have been refuted.

Guess what. We already something that's better and that's Sikhi. No you have not refuted my arguments. A murderer can't use the willing to kill as an excuse. The same way, you can't use lust as an excuse to marry a child...

 

[- Qatada -]

At least what we know comes from saints and gurus own experience and it does make sense to us spiritually. But it does not matter whether or not it makes sense to you...

Sikhi makes the most sense of all. So, no it isn't blind faith. I don't believe in blind faith. We have concluded that Sikhi is the best.

Religion has done major damage to the mankind. So mankind could be in danger without spiritual wisdom but not without a religion.

You havn't proved one proof for any whatsoever, if you're truthful - quote me the proof you've stated. Or even more better, we'll give you a second chance so you can quote from your scripture.

Remember that we won't have a second chance for the hereafter, so accept the truth before death overtakes you. Then you will not be helped.

And indeed We have put forth every kind of example in this Quran, for mankind. But, man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.

And nothing prevents men from believing, now when the guidance (the Quran) has come to them, and from asking Forgiveness of their Lord, except that the ways of the ancients be repeated with them (i.e. their destruction decreed by Allah), or the torment be brought to them face to face?

And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery!


And who is more unjust than one who is reminded of the verses of his Lord but turns away from them and forgets what his hands have put forth? Indeed, We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if you invite them to guidance - they will never be guided, then - ever.

And your Lord is Most Forgiving, Owner of Mercy. Were He to call them to account for what they have earned, then surely, He would have hastened their punishment. But they have their appointed time, beyond which they will find no escape.


[Qur'an 18: 54-58]
​

It doesn't matter what excuse you use to marry a little girl, it's much better to treat her as your own daughter or niece instead of having lust for her and marrying her...

That's not the case though, since you havn't proven that it's wrong from your own scripture, which means that it's permissible in Sikhism also.


Why do you argue over petty things when we have the hereafter to worry about? The day when we will see either the Reward of Allaah or His punishment, don't you fear that you will be raised back alone with all your deeds written infront of you? How would you feel on that day when Allaah will question you on whether you submitted to the way of His prophets? What would you say to Him, the Almighty?

 

[PCJS]

You havn't proved one proof for any whatsoever, if you're truthful - quote me the proof you've stated. Or even more better, we'll give you a second chance so you can quote from your scripture.

What other proof you need than that some with lust could never be a Sikh? I have so much respect for Gurbani that I don't like to post it here.

Remember that we won't have a second chance for the hereafter, so accept the truth before death overtakes you. Then you will not be helped.

And indeed We have put forth every kind of example in this Quran, for mankind. But, man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.

And nothing prevents men from believing, now when the guidance (the Quran) has come to them, and from asking Forgiveness of their Lord, except that the ways of the ancients be repeated with them (i.e. their destruction decreed by Allah), or the torment be brought to them face to face?

And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery!


And who is more unjust than one who is reminded of the verses of his Lord but turns away from them and forgets what his hands have put forth? Indeed, We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if you invite them to guidance - they will never be guided, then - ever.

And your Lord is Most Forgiving, Owner of Mercy. Were He to call them to account for what they have earned, then surely, He would have hastened their punishment. But they have their appointed time, beyond which they will find no escape.


[Qur'an 18: 54-58]
​

If you think Islam is the truth, then there is something better than truth and that is Sikhi. Since nothing can be better than truth, Islam can't be the truth...

That's not the case though, since you havn't proven that it's wrong from your own scripture, which means that it's permissible in Sikhism also.

No, it isn't permissible in Sikhi as a Sikh is not supposed to have any lust, thus would not be going this way anyways...

Why do you argue over petty things when we have the hereafter to worry about? The day when we will see either the Reward of Allaah or His punishment, don't you fear that you will be raised back alone with all your deeds written infront of you? How would you feel on that day when Allaah will question you on whether you submitted to the way of His prophets? What would you say to Him, the Almighty?

We know that what we believe in is much better than what you believe in. As we have discussed this before. Islam only teaches you to do karma and some of these karmas that you do as a Muslim are actually negative karma. So just even trying to be a good Sikh is better than being a Muslim, even if we are not really succesful in being a "true Sikh".

Petty things?

Spirituality is like an ocean of pure water. Even a single drop of dirt can pollute the entire ocean of pure water. So even a tiny wrong thing is not acceptable when it comes to truth.

 

[- Qatada -]

What other proof you need than that some with lust could never be a Sikh? I have so much respect for Gurbani that I don't like to post it here.

Lust is human nature, maybe you could give me the answer since i get so much difference of opinions.

Is marriage permissible in sikhism? If so - please quote from your scripture. If you don't, then that shows that sikhi isn't really for everyone is it? Since you can't even use it to call people to your religion? And anyway even if it is permitted, the guy can't have lust for his wife right? He can only have intercourse for children? No love, no nothing?

If you think Islam is the truth, then there is something better than truth and that is Sikhi. Since nothing can be better than truth, Islam can't be the truth...

Then maybe you could give a better understanding of how the person 'merges with god' - safe?

No, it isn't permissible in Sikhi as a Sikh is not supposed to have any lust, thus would not be going this way anyways...

Not even for one's own wife?

We know that what we believe in is much better than what you believe in. As we have discussed this before. Islam only teaches you to do karma and some of these karmas that you do as a Muslim are actually negative karma. So just even trying to be a good Sikh is better than being a Muslim, even if we are not really succesful in being a "true Sikh".

Cali said it's rare to be a true sikhi, must be really hard to be successful. And its kinda sad on the people who don't even know about sikhi since the Guru Granth Sahib isn't translated in any other language, and the people aren't even encouraged to call others to it. If you disagree, then you're going against what cali said. And if that is the case - then i can't believe anything you guys say since no-one brings proof.

Petty things?

Spirituality is like an ocean of pure water. Even a single drop of dirt can pollute the entire ocean of pure water. So even a tiny wrong thing is not acceptable when it comes to truth.

You're all striving to 'unite with god' right? If so - please explain it so it becomes understandable. And also define what happens to that 'soul' once it 'unites with god.' If it becomes 'god' according to Sikhism, then that doesn't make sense because it means that god is lacking, or isn't whole.

So this is the main issue since we all want to please God, how is it pleasing to say that God isn't whole?

 

[PCJS]

whatever...

 

[- Qatada -]

Then why don't you submit to Allaah? All praise is for Allaah, He has made islaam a perfect religion without any contradictions, we shouldn't follow a religion just because our forefathers did so. We should follow the truth.

Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

[2: 255-7]​

 

[One Man Army]

Gurfateh Khalsa Jeeo

day by day iv started to realise dese forums r jus a waste of space. Khalsa jeeo, dont let things like this pull you down and affect your jeevans. theres alot of seva out their that needs to be done. Guru Sahib has shown me this shabad:

jis hathh sidhh dhaevai jae soee jis no dhaee this aae milai ||
naanak thaa ko milai vaddaaee jis ghatt bheethar sabadh ravai ||
sabh ghatt maerae ho sabhanaa adhar jisehi khuaaee this koun kehai ||
jisehi dhikhaalaa vaattarree thisehi bhulaavai koun ||
jisehi bhulaaee padhh sir thisehi dhikhaavai koun ||1||


He alone grants it, whose hands hold spritual perfection; he alone receives it, unto whom it is given.
O Nanak, he alone is blessed with glorious greatness, whose heart is filled with the Word of the Shabad.
God says, all hearts are mine, and I am in all hearts. Who can explain this to one who is confused?
Who can confuse that being, unto whom I have shown the Way?
And who can show the Path to that being whom I have confused since the beginning of time?

Its all in hukam. Akaal purak gives, and akaal purak takes. Guru Sahib is the only one who can show the path. if they have chosen to confuse, then that is their will.

The reason why i am saying this, as these forums can become addictive, always wanting to argue and prove the next person wrong. Its adding to our hankaar (ego), and will not change anyones views. Dont forget Sarbat da bhulla, let them believe what they are being taught, and keep focus on your sikhi.


Keep Chardi Kalla

Vaheguroo jee ka khalsa, Vaheguroo je kee phateh!

 

[- Qatada -]

But if god was inside everyone, then does that mean everyone's god? And the one's who are more pious have more 'god' in them?


The reason why i'm asking you this is because God only reveals a religion which makes sense, and He doesn't humiliate himself either as He only does what Befits His Majesty. So He doesn't have children like the christians and jews claim, nor is He inside the creation. Nor does He come as a human. And nor does the creation 'merge' into Him. Since He is the All-Perfect, All Knowing.

Say: "Have ye seen (these) 'Partners' of yours whom ye call upon besides Allah? Show Me what it is they have created in the (wide) earth. Or have they a share in the heavens? Or have We given them a Book from which they (can derive) clear (evidence)?- Nay, the wrong-doers promise each other nothing but delusions.

[Qur'an 35:40]


​

Ultimate truth, you should be one of the most closest to the truth - remember when you first came on the forum and said you were seeking guidance? Now that it's come to you, isn't it about time you submitted to Allaah and His message?

 

[One Man Army]

I have done alot of study into islam. If i started pointing out every little thing and show you what i fink is totaly wrong id be here for a long time. Im not gna sit and try proving Islam wrong. i dont need to. why? cuz Guru Sahib has caused me to find and see truth. If u want answers to sikhi, and understand sikhi, you certainly wont get it on an islamic forum. I can answer all your questions, but their is no point. you will get some stupid irrelevant point, misinterpretate it, and continue in this circle. if i started aswel on what i think of items in Islam, we'd b in the same situation. The difference between us is Sikhs do not need to prove someone else is wrong, in order to prove we are right.

If you want Sikhi, read Guru Granth Sahib jee. not ask Sikhs such as myself who think we know sikhi, when we dont have a clue.

I have submitted to Allah, and his message, I given my head to my Guru. He is the only one that can carry humanity across this world ocean, and stop people drowning to Maya and their minds desires:

Gauree, Kabeer Jee:
He claims to know the Lord, who is beyond measure and beyond thought;
by mere words, he plans to enter heaven. ||1||
I do not know where heaven is.
Everyone claims that he plans to go there. ||1||Pause||
By mere talk, the mind is not appeased.
The mind is only appeased, when egotism is conquered. ||2||
As long as the mind is filled with the desire for heaven,
he does not dwell at the Lord's Feet. ||3||
Says Kabeer, unto whom should I tell this?
The Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, is heaven.


One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
The one who bows in humble reverence to the Primal Lord, the Lord of all beings
- I am a sacrifice, a sacrifice to such a Guru; He Himself is liberated, and He carries me across as well. ||1||Pause||
Which, which, which of Your Glorious Virtues should I chant? There is no end or limitation to them.
There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, many millions of them, but those who contemplate them are very rare. ||1||
I am wonder-struck, wonder-struck, wonder-struck and amazed, dyed in the deep crimson color of my Beloved.
Says Nanak, the Saints savor this sublime essence, like the mute, who tastes the sweet candy, but only smiles. ||2||1||20||

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Gurfateh Khalsa Jeeo


jis hathh sidhh dhaevai jae soee jis no dhaee this aae milai ||
naanak thaa ko milai vaddaaee jis ghatt bheethar sabadh ravai ||
sabh ghatt maerae ho sabhanaa adhar jisehi khuaaee this koun kehai ||
jisehi dhikhaalaa vaattarree thisehi bhulaavai koun ||
jisehi bhulaaee padhh sir thisehi dhikhaavai koun ||1||


He alone grants it, whose hands hold spritual perfection; he alone receives it, unto whom it is given.
O Nanak, he alone is blessed with glorious greatness, whose heart is filled with the Word of the Shabad.
God says, all hearts are mine, and I am in all hearts. Who can explain this to one who is confused?
Who can confuse that being, unto whom I have shown the Way?
And who can show the Path to that being whom I have confused since the beginning of time?

Vaheguroo jee ka khalsa, Vaheguroo je kee phateh!

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa, Waheguroo Je Kee Fateh

WOW veer this Shabad hits the nail on the head! - Although htis thread has taken a turn of it's own. The Shabad sums it all up.

Dhan Gurbani Nirankar Di (Great Are The Verses Of The Formless)

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

But if god was inside everyone, then does that mean everyone's god? And the one's who are more pious have more 'god' in them?


The reason why i'm asking you this is because God only reveals a religion which makes sense, and He doesn't humiliate himself either as He only does what Befits His Majesty. So He doesn't have children like the christians and jews claim, nor is He inside the creation. Nor does He come as a human. And nor does the creation 'merge' into Him. Since He is the All-Perfect, All Knowing.
?

Sikhi makes perfect sense if you're open minded.

Concept of God

Followers of the Sikh faith believe that all life, including human life, comes from God. God is the Creator of the universe and the force that keeps it in existence. God is purely spiritual, has no physical body and cannot be known or experienced through the five senses. God is infinitely above and beyond everything else that exists (transcendent). God is also within all creation, including human beings (immanent) and, therefore, Sikhs believe that all creation is part of God.

Think of it as a bit of DNA from a parent. Yet we have a part of him within us all, we cannot become God. Just as a Son, cannot be the father and daughter cannot be the mother!

Gur Fateh