Lal Masjid dispute

['Abd al-Baari]

Alhamdulillah, we need more people like that who are willing to stop such haram things, especially in a supposedly islamic country

 

[siFilam]

:salamext:
Is it true that the Moulana Abdul Aziz of Lal Masjid is threatening to retaliate by suicide attacks if the state acted against the Masjid? I ask because I've only read this in the western media and needs some clarifications.

Wasalam
-SI-

 

[hidaayah]

maybe true because I've also read it in our local islamic newspaper run by the ulema.
An article from the newspaper written by the head of Wafaq board Maulana Saleemullah Khan[urdu]:
click here

 

[Goku]

Although it is good that they closed down the brothel (if there was one) I dont agree with violent protests or violent threats. The Clerics should present their ideas formally for discussion. The threats of violence is UnIslamic and will hurt their case more than help.

I dont think many Pakistanis would like to live under Taliban style rule either.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^I agree. They could have done protests or gone through with the government or something...Stuff like this will only push people away more. But they sure do got guts! lol

 

[noodles]

I think the problem with suggesting the scholars to take a stand against extremists is that they themselves will be labelled as radicals once they open their mouths.

It works like this, if you have 1 rotten apple in a basket full of apples, the stink will come from the whole bunch. No matter what happens, the stink of the rotten apple will remain on the fresh apples. If anyone of us picks up one apple and takes a sniff the first thing we'd smell is the stench. Our mind then automatically labels it as a rotten apple despite its ripeness and flavour.

If you notice our present scholars of Islam, they operate in a similar way, when one turns rotten, the whole group is critisized for it.

There are many things that can be done to solve this problem.

For instance, if instead of just judging the apple by its aroma, why not take a bite and see for yourself if it tastes good. Or perhaps washing the apple and taking a whiff.

In both cases, it requires us human beings to make the effort to cleanse them or delve in them further to create an opinion about the apples. In our scholars case, it works in a similar way. If we dont make the effort to find the right scholars, then we remain fruitless at the end of the day.

Another thing, (And I hate to bring this up, but it must be done) that serves as deceiver is the air around the basket of apples. If we cleanse the air around the basket, perhaps we may bring out hints of the sweet smelling apples. So what can we compare to the air?

Media.

In this present day and age, the purpose of the media is to find the oddities of life and report it to the citizens. If the media only serves to bring out the bad apples, then how will the rest of our scholars take a stand.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^So true!:thumbs_up

 

[snakelegs]

‘Govt engineering Jamia Hafsa crisis’

PESHAWAR: NWFP clerics suspect that the government is “allowing the growing trend of Talibanisation to continue unchecked in Islamabad in a conspiracy to label all madrassas militant training camps”.

The province’s clerics on Saturday refused to support Lal Masjid administrator and Jamia Hafsa principal Maulana Abdul Aziz, and called Lal Masjid’s efforts to “enforce Shariah” an “unwise act that will mar the image of all madrassa students in the country and abroad”. “It may be the government and law-enforcement agencies’ plan to show the world what Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa are training their students to do,” they said, adding that the government earlier bombed a Bajaur madrassa for similar reasons. “I have met Maulana Aziz twice since last week and advised him not to take the law into his hands,” Sheikhul Hadith Maulana Mohammad Hassan Jan, an administrator at Jamia Imdadul Uloom Islamia in Peshawar, told Daily Times.

“A madrassa means a place of Islamic education, and its students should not take up sticks and challenge the government’s writ. Stopping people from unlawful activities is the government’s job,” said Hassan Jan, adding that the Lal Masjid administrator should wage a jihad against un-Islamic activities through Islamic teachings, not through sticks and threats of suicide bombings. “Maulana Abdul Aziz took this step without consulting ulema and he will be responsible if something happens to madrassas and their students,” said Hassan Jan.

He also condemned the government for not implementing recommendations of the Council of Islamic Ideology (CII). “Had the government implemented the CII’s recommendations, the situation would not have been so,” he said.

Mufti Qamar of the Sarhad Darul Uloom said the Jamia Hafsa principal was playing with thousands of madrassa students’ lives. “Maulana Aziz will be responsible if the government takes action against madrassa students who are at the forefront of this situation,” he added.

Madrassa Darul Qura administrator and Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam (JUIF) MNA Qari Fayaz criticised the Lal Masjid administrator’s announcement to enforce Shariah, and said this would damage the image of all madrassa students throughout the world.

He also accused the government of “engineering” the Jamia Hafsa crisis to divert public and media attention from the ongoing judicial crisis. “How is it possible for some madrassa students to take the law into their hands and why has the government been silent so far? The government has certain motives,” said Qari Fayaz.

Maulana Fazlullah of madrassa Hanifia Sunnia in Katlang, Mardan, said ulema should stop people from un-Islamic activities through Islamic teachings. He said the way the Lal Masjid administrator was trying to implement Shariah was against the principles of Islam and the law of the land. Maulana Fazal Manan, the administrator at Madrassa Jamia Qadria in Mardan and provincial president of Tanzimul Madaris, also slammed the formation of a Shariat court at Lal Masjid. “Through this act, all of the country’s madrassas will be accused of training militants,” he said. The clerics said the Lal Masjid administrator should withdraw his demands.


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\04\08\story_8-4-2007_pg7_14

good article - thanks for posting. this sounds quite feasible to me:
"He also accused the government of “engineering” the Jamia Hafsa crisis to divert public and media attention from the ongoing judicial crisis."
at the same time, i think the taliban is growing and spreading in pakistan.

 

[north_malaysian]

City of Islam, when did Islamabad get that title and who named it that?

"Islamabad" means "City of Islam"

 

[snakelegs]

islamabad is a fairly new city - designed in sometime in the 60's as the capitol of pakistan, replacing karachi.

 

[akulion]

just a bunch of extremists who are there to take the focus off from the ongoing problem with the president that he had the supreme justice arrested.

This is just a diversion tactic to take focus of the public eye off the REAL PROBLEM which was causing huge problems for the existing govt.

As for these 'noble students' they are just a bunch of looney toons who think everyone should do as they say or else die.

 

[NoName55]

just a bunch of extremists who are there to take the focus off from the ongoing problem with the president that he had the supreme justice arrested.

This is just a diversion tactic to take focus of the public eye off the REAL PROBLEM which was causing huge problems for the existing govt.

As for these 'noble students' they are just a bunch of looney toons who think everyone should do as they say or else die.

I have had a few chance meetings with so called students of madrasahs. You could never hope to meet a more ignorant person than a talib.unable to read and write, (being able to recognise and repeat words of Quraan without knowing the meaning does not make one an expert in Arabic language). just a brainwashed parrot.

and they are being used by power hungry evil people as cannon fodder. most of them are from destitute familes or are orphans and had nowhere else to go and ended up in hands of these monsters who use them for their own purposes. Lack of social security, social sevices, lack of real schools are the real problem.

 

[snakelegs]

excellent post, noname 55.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Assalaamo alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

After madrassah students of Jamia Hafsa took the law into their own hands and closed down a brothel in Islamabad (imagine open prostitution in the "City of Islam"), there has been ongoing controversy between the government and the administration of Lal Masjid. General Musharraf, the dictator of Pakistan, went on record saying, “These people should shun narrow-mindedness and should open their minds for new ideas.” This is funny because Musharraf is the most narrow minded person on the planet. Pakistan claims to be an "Islamic Republic", yet the capital city, Islamabad ("City of Islam") is like Las Vegas, brothels and immoral corruption abound like any European city. Now these noble students want to restore the dignity of Pakistan by forcing people to stop sinning and the hypocritical government and media are in an uproar!

A person who goes into a kids video store, puts the owner at gun point, and tells him to burn his kids video is a hero? How about you all move to pakistan and gve up the internet already! If kids cartoons are not Halal then you think the internet isn't? Get off the internet now because these same people would be saying your sinning right now.

 

[mahdisoldier19]

I have had a few chance meetings with so called students of madrasahs. You could never hope to meet a more ignorant person than a talib.unable to read and write, (being able to recognise and repeat words of Quraan without knowing the meaning does not make one an expert in Arabic language). just a brainwashed parrot.

and they are being used by power hungry evil people as cannon fodder. most of them are from destitute familes or are orphans and had nowhere else to go and ended up in hands of these monsters who use them for their own purposes. Lack of social security, social sevices, lack of real schools are the real problem.

I find what you said to be completely Ignorant.

Yes the only education the talibs know is Madrassah, But i do not see them being used by power hungry people. I see them together to establish a deen on a watan based on Sharia.

Ignorant? Then you have never met a real talib, they are very humble people who have strong generosity values. I was raised in a Madrassah when i was young, so i know what it is to expect in a Madrassah.

 

[snakelegs]

mahdisoldier,
what noname 55 wrote, confirms what i have read and learned from pashtuns.
would you disagree then, that pashtuns have been used as cannon fodder by the ISI?

 

[NoName55]

I find what you said to be completely Ignorant.

That is also a trait of the reactionary Taliban/Talibaat, Never allow an opinion contrary to your moolah's, but attack, discredit the "opponent" If that fails kidnapping and murder are resorted to.

Yes the only education the talibs know is Madrassah, But i do not see them being used by power hungry people. I see them together to establish a deen on a watan based on Sharia.

Ignorant? Then you have never met a real talib, they are very humble people who have strong generosity values. I was raised in a Madrassah when i was young, so i know what it is to expect in a Madrassah.

I hope Musharaf and ISI take their kidgloves off and deal with this mennace sooner rather than later

(end of my part in so-called disscussion)
Wa-Salaam

 

[mahdisoldier19]

mahdisoldier,
what noname 55 wrote, confirms what i have read and learned from pashtuns.
would you disagree then, that pashtuns have been used as cannon fodder by the ISI?

I know those Pashtuns, those are the conspiracies that run against the Taliban. I ask those who say they were funded by the ISI, why when the Talibs asked the same ISI for money for educational systems, the ISI said no. What funding? Do you think the Taliban would help a secular goverment against themselves? After all they are RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS.

Like the accusation that Saddam and Bin Laden are co-mates

 

[snakelegs]

I know those Pashtuns, those are the conspiracies that run against the Taliban. I ask those who say they were funded by the ISI, why when the Talibs asked the same ISI for money for educational systems, the ISI said no. What funding? Do you think the Taliban would help a secular goverment against themselves? After all they are RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS.

well, they might if they were convinced that they were fighting for islam
first against the godless communists
now against the godless western occupiers
haven't various religious organizations worked with the military before?
also, i don't think the ISI funds madrassas in the first place. for this, there are the saudis and in the past, the americans too.
am i way off here? it is really difficult if not impossible for an outsider to get a clear picture of what is going on in pakistan or afghanistan (aside from the fact that there are many different things all going on at once). even talking to people from these areas, naturally you get different stories depending on the individuals you talk to.

Like the accusation that Saddam and Bin Laden are co-mates

i think a lot of people knew that this was an absurd allegation - just another one of bush's pretenses leading up to the invasion of iraq: one week it was WMD's, next week it was 9/11 and the next week it was "freedom and democracy" - it was really pretty transparent.

 

[north_malaysian]

i think a lot of people knew that this was an absurd allegation - just another one of bush's pretenses leading up to the invasion of iraq: one week it was WMD's, next week it was 9/11 and the next week it was "freedom and democracy" - it was really pretty transparent.

Doesnt Bush realise that most people on earth (including some Martians too) think that he's crazy....?