Are we gods?

[poga]

:

God said, "Let us make man in our image and likeness. Who was He talking to?"
Don't call us liars. Yet, I still believe that God is one.

alap means speech could alapiana means talkative

 

[Silver Pearl]

Greetings alapiana1,

But that would be true of us having an imperfect view of Christ Jesus, because He is not here to talk to in the flesh so to speak. All we Christians have is our faith in Him and what He said.

While that may be correct to a certain level, using that statement doesn't validate your arguement. There are historical accounts that indicate that Jesus (May Allaah's peace and blessings be upon him) was alive and carried out miracles, there is no indication to his status being that of God's son, as a matter of fact, in its simplicity that would be considered blasphemy. Humans are flawed, they have direction, they are limited and to confine God's ability and give him mortality when he is far removed from such flaw in itself is a refutation for the claim that Jesus (May Allaah's peace and blessings be upon him) was God's son, or is God, which ever coin you prefer.

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, it is not so much reliability as validity that is important. For instance, we could have a Newspaper that is totally accurate (reliable) and free from any errors whatsoever even free of typos, that doesn't make it the word of God.

Your example here does not give credit to the arguement. While I do understand what you mean, no sane person would declare that their newspaper was God's work. However, with a scripture, people have declared it to be the word of God, so eevry letter is scrutinised, every meaning is ripped apart so that there is no room for mistakes. Humans are flawed creatures, while God is not. So reliability is crucial in the case of a scripture, more so than any other written document.

I think we Christians are chasing rabbits to try to defend the Bible. We don't have to.

You're right, you don't need to defend the bible, the content of the bible should alone be sufficient for itself. However, due to alot of errors (and I don't doubt that we will disagree on this matter) it has become necessary for scholars who are well versed in the bible to defend it.

All we have to do is unleash it.

Much more is needed than unleashing.

The Bible in its entirety points to Jesus as the total spiritual sum of all things.

No it doesn't. Rather what the bible shows is a man who could perform miracles. Then men came after him and elivated his position, hyperboly to the extent that the messenger was no longre a mortal, rather he became the immortal lord, now convince me that this is not absurd and blasphemy.

Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties might be of interest to any scholar. It has shown me in so many words the following statements above and the following: Defend the Bible, no, I don't think so. "A roaring Lion does not need to be defended from a mouse." The Bible is living; it is a live wire; it's a seed when mixed with water and the light of truth brings forth fruit leading to eternal life in Jesus Christ.

I disagree with your latter statements. As muslims we believe that the bible (injeel) was sent down by God to Jesus, this much we reside with and that Jesus was the son of Mary, and she bore him as a virgin. We also agree that he is the messiah. However, what we don't agree with is this concept of the father, the son and the holy spirit. It is not wise to attribute something to God that he has removed himself from. He is neither a mortal nor a human. To go beyond that which is permissible.

And indeed, We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and supported him with the Holy Spirit [Gabriel]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed. (2:87)

And because of their saying (in sarcastic boast), "We killed Messiah jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of jesus was put over another man, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they did not kill him. (4:157)

Regards

 

[Redeemed]

Encolpius?

Well, the Satyricon isn't exactly the most Godly of novels, that's for sure!!!!

That went over my head, and I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Redeemed]

Greetings alapiana1,



While that may be correct to a certain level, using that statement doesn't validate your arguement. There are historical accounts that indicate that Jesus (May Allaah's peace and blessings be upon him) was alive and carried out miracles, there is no indication to his status being that of God's son, as a matter of fact, in its simplicity that would be considered blasphemy. Humans are flawed, they have direction, they are limited and to confine God's ability and give him mortality when he is far removed from such flaw in itself is a refutation for the claim that Jesus (May Allaah's peace and blessings be upon him) was God's son, or is God, which ever coin you prefer.



Your example here does not give credit to the arguement. While I do understand what you mean, no sane person would declare that their newspaper was God's work. However, with a scripture, people have declared it to be the word of God, so eevry letter is scrutinised, every meaning is ripped apart so that there is no room for mistakes. Humans are flawed creatures, while God is not. So reliability is crucial in the case of a scripture, more so than any other written document.


You're right, you don't need to defend the bible, the content of the bible should alone be sufficient for itself. However, due to alot of errors (and I don't doubt that we will disagree on this matter) it has become necessary for scholars who are well versed in the bible to defend it.



Much more is needed than unleashing.



No it doesn't. Rather what the bible shows is a man who could perform miracles. Then men came after him and elivated his position, hyperboly to the extent that the messenger was no longre a mortal, rather he became the immortal lord, now convince me that this is not absurd and blasphemy.



I disagree with your latter statements. As muslims we believe that the bible (injeel) was sent down by God to Jesus, this much we reside with and that Jesus was the son of Mary, and she bore him as a virgin. We also agree that he is the messiah. However, what we don't agree with is this concept of the father, the son and the holy spirit. It is not wise to attribute something to God that he has removed himself from. He is neither a mortal nor a human. To go beyond that which is permissible.

And indeed, We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of Messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and supported him with the Holy Spirit [Gabriel]. Is it that whenever there came to you a Messenger with what you yourselves desired not, you grew arrogant? Some, you disbelieved and some, you killed. (2:87)

And because of their saying (in sarcastic boast), "We killed Messiah jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of jesus was put over another man, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they did not kill him. (4:157)

Regards

I believe that God is a Spirit; in fact, the Bible says that He is and that those who worship Him must do it in spirit and in truth. I, however, have no problem believing that God can inhabit a human person or be in more that more place at a single moment in time. We do not limit what God can do. We do not look at God as if He is limited to the confines of time and space, as we know it. I have no problem believing that God's word could be made flesh, nor to I have a problem seeing God as all wise, merciful and Holy. Since He is Holy and a Spirit, I have no problem as seeing Him as the Holy Spirit and yet the same one true God. To try to understand the essence of God in terms of human dimensions only leads to horrible heresies of which Muslims think us guilty of. I look at Jesus who was the only prophet (Son of Man) to be sinless and conceived of a virgin (Son of Mary). That alone should be a sign and I hint as to the true nature of Jesus Christ. Since He did not have an earthly father, it only confirms that through the prophets and even Jesus Himself the Bible speaks absolute truth has His Father being God. It is written in the Scriptures, "He that has the Son has life; he that has not the Son, as not life, but the wrath of God abides on him." I do not want the wrath of God abiding on me. I would have to be spiritually dead to believe that He is not who He says. The Bible is the inerrant word of God to the true believers and follows of Christ there are no mistakes in it pertaining to who Jesus really is.

 

[Redeemed]

alipiana - most translations of the Bible say "GodLike creatures" or "Angels" or something like that.. basically very loved, important people

That is because God is Love!

 

[MustafaMc]

I don't doubt that what you share is true, but I know that Satan is not a creator he is a mocker and all he can do is be a countfeit to the real things of God to bring confusion. He is the lord of confusion and the flies. Jesus is true and righteous altogether. He loves you, and G-d is not willing that any should perish but that all come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why did you not reply to the issue that Br. Woodrow just pointed out that Christianity seems to be derived from Greek mythology - not a revelation from God? You seem to reply to well put and logical posts with irrelvant preaching that is not related to the posts you are replying to. There has to be a name for this kind of response.

 

[MustafaMc]

Did u know that the foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of men, and that there is a way that seems right to a man, but that way leads to death. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God Romans 6:23 Why should God forgive you or me for that matter? You might tell me because He is merciful or you don't believe He is alive. He is merciful; however, He is also just. We believe that His justice will not allow you or me to escape the punishment for our wickedness such as our sins in the past, present and future. “For the wages of sin is death (eternal separation from God in hell forever), but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ.” Why such a gift? Because God loves us He allowed Jesus to take our sentence of death so that He instead became the curse and sin for us so that we could have His righteousness before God. On the judgment day, I will stand before God in the same righteousness of Jesus, but you will stand in your own righteousness. Do not be saddened for me. My name as I write to you is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. “How can we hope to escape the judgment of God if we neglect so great a salvation?” This is why I will not revert. We are free in Christ. There are no obligatory prayers or fasts for us we are free. That is bondage. We are free from religious tradition and formalities. We don't have religion we have a relationship with God in where He considers us friends, because our sins have been washed clean by the blood of the Lamb. The angel of death will claim all who don't have their hearts covered by the blood of the Lamb (Jesus) just like the death angel claimed the first born of every home that didn't have the door post of their house marked with lamb's blood. Jesus said, “Behold I stand at the door and knock if any man hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and sup with him.” I hsope you make the right choice, because we do have the gift of free will. We are free to choose as we wish, but we are not free from the consquences of those choices. At least Muslims and Christians are following God in their own way, but it is the fool that says in his heart, there is no God.
Peace

Haven't I read this exact wording some where else before?

 

[Redeemed]

Why did you not reply to the issue that Br. Woodrow just pointed out that Christianity seems to be derived from Greek mythology - not a revelation from God? You seem to reply to well put and logical posts with irrelvant preaching that is not related to the posts you are replying to. There has to be a name for this kind of response.

I am not sure what you mean. Paul spoke to those who were believers in Greek mythology and straighten them out. He told them that he knew the unknown god they worshiped. Paul told him that he knew the real God and God wanted them to repent of these myths. I didn't get Br. Woodrows comment. What prove dose he or you have that is based on greek myths.

 

[Redeemed]

Haven't I read this exact wording some where else before?

Maybe, but it doesn't hurt to be reminded, especially when dealing with life and death situations of the soul.

 

[Trumble]

Why did you not reply to the issue that Br. Woodrow just pointed out that Christianity seems to be derived from Greek mythology - not a revelation from God?

Woodrow was actually quoting from a site that refutes the specific claim included in that quote!

 

[Redeemed]

Why did you not reply to the issue that Br. Woodrow just pointed out that Christianity seems to be derived from Greek mythology - not a revelation from God? You seem to reply to well put and logical posts with irrelvant preaching that is not related to the posts you are replying to. There has to be a name for this kind of response.

About that Greek myth stuff, that is really interesting. I am going to have to look into that one. I don't have an answer for you I am not sure if and when that happened.

 

[Redeemed]

Woodrow was actually quoting from a site that refutes the specific claim included in that quote!

That is true. I noticed that. For a minute he had me going! He should have read it in its entirety before telling me about it.

 

[Redeemed]

Why did you not reply to the issue that Br. Woodrow just pointed out that Christianity seems to be derived from Greek mythology - not a revelation from God? You seem to reply to well put and logical posts with irrelvant preaching that is not related to the posts you are replying to. There has to be a name for this kind of response.

Did you get the message? It has been addressed. Greek's (and their Myths) copied from Christainity. The Catholic Church may have taken some pagan dates like Dec 25 for instance, but that does not have its roots in the Bible. The bible is a The Rock (Jesus is the chief corner stone) There is salvation in no other. No other name given where we might be saved.

 

[MustafaMc]

Did you get the message? It has been addressed.

Yes, I saw the replies.

 

[Woodrow]

That is true. I noticed that. For a minute he had me going! He should have read it in its entirety before telling me about it.

Yet, that is not the only Greek myth of that type there were many more. Keep in mind these were myths that were already in circulation at the time of Isa(as).

During that same time frame You also had an abundance of crucifixion/resurrection, son of god stories circulating.

The Christians attributed one to Isa(as) and the others were refuted. Yes, there are refutations to all of the crucifixion stories, including the crucifixion of Isa(as)

i addressed a few more of them in the Bible thread

 

[poga]

Whoa, run-on sentence alert!

But back onto topic, did I say that Biblical miracles were caused by sufficiently advanced technology? No. I wasn't there to judge them in particular, so...

What I did say is that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from miracles or magic, which explains various "ancient astronaut" theories which have been put forth to explain hitherto inexplicable superstitions of certain indigenous tribes in South East Asia, and why Montezuma believed that Cortes and the Spanish were gods because they could seemingly strike down his people with jets of fire (guns) and had strange beasts under their command (horses).

And there is still no fate, only the power of will. There is a Russian proverb which says, "Pray to God, but keep rowing to shore." That is what I had in mind.

dua and dawah magic and medicine
why is it more we learn about medicine less dependent we become to magic
what jesus use to do to few how doctors are doing to many
is our technological advancement harming our miraculous capability
can we make the fusion like dua machine

 

[Woodrow]

I do not like the direction this thread is headed. Let us stay on topic.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Are we gods? -

i do not even know how to begin answering this but just to try to explain, i'll give an example,

this is in NO WAY SIMILAR AT ALL but this to me is like seeing a lifeless powerless spec of dust contemplating if he is an allmighty being.


no you little spec, but no-one can stop you from dreaming

 

[barney]

Fast answer is nobody knows. I'm sure that God wasnt aware of potential human language niceitys for kingdoms not yet formed.

The Mormons beleive that the faithful will all become god-like after judgement day and each have a planet to rule. Dont let me have Pluto please...It's rubbish.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Fast answer is nobody knows. I'm sure that God wasnt aware of potential human language niceitys for kingdoms not yet formed.

The Mormons beleive that the faithful will all become god-like after judgement day and each have a planet to rule. Dont let me have Pluto please...It's rubbish.

how do you know, you've never been there.

you'll regret it barney!!