Off topic posts moved from "Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible"

Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

I'm at work now I will post the information ok .
By the way I don't deal in belief's / faith's / or Believe as you say , Only Fact's .

Ok, show me the facts even if you don't believe them.

I would say you believe in very many things, even if you do not believe this statement.

Sorry, but beliefs are an inevitable fact of life, they are like opinions, we all have them. Even if you believe you have no beliefs, that would be your personal belief.

I do not doubt that you have found something that is claimed to have met the Qur'anic challange. If for no reason than as a liguistic study I would love to see it. Remember to meet the challange it has to be written in pure Arabic.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Ok, show me the facts even if you don't believe them.

I would say you believe in very many things, even if you do not believe this statement.

Sorry, but beliefs are an inevitable fact of life, they are like opinions, we all have them. Even if you believe you have no beliefs, that would be your personal belief.

I do not doubt that you have found something that is claimed to have met the Qur'anic challange. If for no reason than as a liguistic study I would love to see it. Remember to meet the challange it has to be written in pure Arabic.




Are you telling me you have Muslims Who Can Speak / Read / Write Pure Arabic as you say ?

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt.


I'm working on your answer .
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Are you telling me you have Muslims Who Can Speak / Read / Write Pure Arabic as you say ?

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt.


I'm working on your answer .

Are you telling me you have Muslims Who Can Speak / Read / Write Pure Arabic as you say ?

We do have a number of Members that do read and write classical and colloquial Arabic plus many of the Muslim members can read the Pure Qur'anic Arabic. At least several of the Muslim members are Hafiz

As far as I know the only example of pure Arabic is the Qur'an. So yes we do have members who can read and write Pure Arabic but only what they read or copy from the Qur'an. So far as I know, nobody else has ever been able to write a single original word in Qur'anic Arabic.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

We do have a number of Members that do read and write classical and colloquial Arabic plus many of the Muslim members can read the Pure Qur'anic Arabic. At least several of the Muslim members are Hafiz

As far as I know the only example of pure Arabic is the Qur'an. So yes we do have members who can read and write Pure Arabic but only what they read or copy from the Qur'an. So far as I know, nobody else has ever been able to write a single original word in Qur'anic Arabic.





In the famous Orthodox Sunni Muslim dictionary entitled '' Dictionary Of Islam '' Arabic is described as '' By Reason Of It's Incomparable Excellence Is Called Al Lughah . Of The Language . '' Very little has been written about the origing of the so-called Arabic language . However , It is clear that Arabic is not a language , It is a dialect composed of many borrowed words from other languages . As a matter of fact . 50% of The Arabic language is foreign word from other dialects of The Semitic Family . This is something that most Muslims don't want to admit .

Now , Getting back to the point , In the original Qur'anic script you will not find the letters ; Baa , Taa,Thaa . Dhal , Zay , Sheen ,Daad , Zaa , Ghiyn , or Qaf , Again these letters weren't found because there were originally , No Nuqta Dots , On the letters . If The Nuqtas were not addded to the letters , Most people could not tell the difference bettween A Baa , Taa , And Thaa
. The same applies to the letters Sheen , And Siyn , Daad , And Saad , And the likes . As you place The Nuqta over different letters , It changes the meaning of the word . Take a look at the following chart .

Word .......... Variations Of Word
Hamada .......... Dahaba
Hamadha.......... Dhahaba
Khamada ......... Dahata
Khamadha......... Dhahata
Jamada ......... Dahata
Hamadha ........ Dhahatha

The Dots that did appear , Were the systems that Muslims brought about in the name of preseriving The Qur'an , Only made things more difficult for readers of The Qur'an . This happened because they were trying to bring A Primitive document into Modern times . Arabic was controlled by Poets , and The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) was not a poet . In fact , The Qur'an speaks against them ( Qur'an 69 ; 41 , 36 ; 69 ) . Thus , His book was not receiving any respect . So , It became necessary to improve upon the words of By Men . And Muslims are so blind , That they can't see the Evil in that . The Qur'an claims of itself to be '' Total Complete '' And '' Without Any Doubt '' ( Qu'an 2 ; 1 ) .

It claims to be A '' Clear '' Message ( Qur'an 15 ; 1 ) . Yet , They had to improve upon it with their grammatical system , Which makes it impossible for anyone to fully understand ; Which leaves them the right to interpret it the way they wish by creating meaning for each word to fit into their newly formed Judaic Christian Sect Islam . Muslims will have to admit that they don't have the Original Qur'an . The Qur'an that they hold in their hands today . Is Not the Original . Ask any Sincere Muslim , Do they have the Original Koran , They will say '' We Have The Oldest Copy Of The Koran '' Or This Qur'an Has No Doubt In It '' However ( Oldest Does Not Mean Original ) and The Qur'an does have doubt in the form of many mistakes . Sorry , But it has been proven that it does . The Qur'an that you hold in your hand .

Today has been proven fallible . It does have mistakes in The Arabic , And mistranslations in The English , Contradictions , And the mistakes go on and on . And being that Muslims don't have The Original Quraan , They have no foundation for their Religion without it . Some Muslims have a habit of talking about The Qur'an like it is so unique or Original , And it comes from Judaic and Christian teachings and books .

( The very Qur'an puts forth A 1400 Year Old Challenge To Produce A Book Or A Chapter Or A Verse Like It ; Claiming That It Is Impossible For Anyone With The Help Of All The Pages And Al The Ink In The World . To Produce One Verse . Chapter Or The Whole Book Like It . And This Request Was Made In Several Places In Qur'an 52 ; 34 , 17 ; 88 , 11 ; 13 and 2 ; 23 . Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled '' The Prophet '' And The Muslims World Thought It Could Not Be Done ) .

Christians mocked the very style of The Qur'an , Phrases and The Tasmiyya . This goes to show that it can be done and that Anybody Can '' Produce The Like Thereof '' The Book is divided into 30 Chapters and is comprised of verses compiled from The Gospels of four Disciples ; Matthew , Mark , Luke , And John . According to the author , The book was written to show Muslims that The Challenge they have been making for 1400 years . Has finally been Met ,


I'll Stop Here.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthasar21
In the famous Orthodox Sunni Muslim dictionary entitled '' Dictionary Of Islam '' Arabic is described as '' By Reason Of It's Incomparable Excellence Is Called Al Lughah . Of The Language . '' Very little has been written about the origing of the so-called Arabic language . However , It is clear that Arabic is not a language , It is a dialect composed of many borrowed words from other languages . As a matter of fact . 50% of The Arabic language is foreign word from other dialects of The Semitic Family . This is something that most Muslims don't want to admit .

Now , Getting back to the point , In the original Qur'anic script you will not find the letters ; Baa , Taa,Thaa . Dhal , Zay , Sheen ,Daad , Zaa , Ghiyn , or Qaf , Again these letters weren't found because there were originally , No Nuqta Dots , On the letters . If The Nuqtas were not addded to the letters , Most people could not tell the difference bettween A Baa , Taa , And Thaa
. The same applies to the letters Sheen , And Siyn , Daad , And Saad , And the likes . As you place The Nuqta over different letters , It changes the meaning of the word . Take a look at the following chart .

Word .......... Variations Of Word
Hamada .......... Dahaba
Hamadha.......... Dhahaba
Khamada ......... Dahata
Khamadha......... Dhahata
Jamada ......... Dahata
Hamadha ........ Dhahatha

The Dots that did appear , Were the systems that Muslims brought about in the name of preseriving The Qur'an , Only made things more difficult for readers of The Qur'an . This happened because they were trying to bring A Primitive document into Modern times . Arabic was controlled by Poets , and The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) was not a poet . In fact , The Qur'an speaks against them ( Qur'an 69 ; 41 , 36 ; 69 ) . Thus , His book was not receiving any respect . So , It became necessary to improve upon the words of By Men . And Muslims are so blind , That they can't see the Evil in that . The Qur'an claims of itself to be '' Total Complete '' And '' Without Any Doubt '' ( Qu'an 2 ; 1 ) .

It claims to be A '' Clear '' Message ( Qur'an 15 ; 1 ) . Yet , They had to improve upon it with their grammatical system , Which makes it impossible for anyone to fully understand ; Which leaves them the right to interpret it the way they wish by creating meaning for each word to fit into their newly formed Judaic Christian Sect Islam . Muslims will have to admit that they don't have the Original Qur'an . The Qur'an that they hold in their hands today . Is Not the Original . Ask any Sincere Muslim , Do they have the Original Koran , They will say '' We Have The Oldest Copy Of The Koran '' Or This Qur'an Has No Doubt In It '' However ( Oldest Does Not Mean Original ) and The Qur'an does have doubt in the form of many mistakes . Sorry , But it has been proven that it does . The Qur'an that you hold in your hand .

Today has been proven fallible . It does have mistakes in The Arabic , And mistranslations in The English , Contradictions , And the mistakes go on and on . And being that Muslims don't have The Original Quraan , They have no foundation for their Religion without it . Some Muslims have a habit of talking about The Qur'an like it is so unique or Original , And it comes from Judaic and Christian teachings and books .

( The very Qur'an puts forth A 1400 Year Old Challenge To Produce A Book Or A Chapter Or A Verse Like It ; Claiming That It Is Impossible For Anyone With The Help Of All The Pages And Al The Ink In The World . To Produce One Verse . Chapter Or The Whole Book Like It . And This Request Was Made In Several Places In Qur'an 52 ; 34 , 17 ; 88 , 11 ; 13 and 2 ; 23 . Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled '' The Prophet '' And The Muslims World Thought It Could Not Be Done ) .

Christians mocked the very style of The Qur'an , Phrases and The Tasmiyya . This goes to show that it can be done and that Anybody Can '' Produce The Like Thereof '' The Book is divided into 30 Chapters and is comprised of verses compiled from The Gospels of four Disciples ; Matthew , Mark , Luke , And John . According to the author , The book was written to show Muslims that The Challenge they have been making for 1400 years . Has finally been Met ,


I'll Stop Here.

Nice bit of cut and paste. Actually it is a good piece. However, please post a link to the source as we do take plagarism very seriously and that article is copyrighted.

Now getting back and clearing the smoke from the room. Where is your example that the Qur'anic challenge was met? You merely posted reference to a book. I want to see an example of the Arabic Text you claim met the challange.


Quote:
Balthasar21
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zulkiflim
Salaam,

It is a simple thing in Islam.

there is a verse that ask any prson of any faith ,,either individual or a gropup to produce a book like the Quran.

If you cna produce a book..

then a chapter

If you cant produce a chapter then a verse..

If you do not accept the challenge..then you make your choice.
If you accept the challenge and fail,as surely you will,but still lie,,then you **** yourself.

And assuredly this challenge applies 1400 years ago till now.
Beware of what you ask for , because that challenge has been MET .

I will admit Gibran was a great writer, but I doubt if even he would claim that his writing met the Challenge. I believe I still have a copy of "The Prophet" in Arabic I will try to find it and see if I can copy a few pages and post them as a gif and let you judge for yourself.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

I no longer have my copy of "The Prophet" I checked through my books I still do have. I guess it was one that got lost when I lost my house.

But I did find it on line in it's original. Here you can read it yourself in it's original Arabic. Now you tell me if you honestly believe that even approaches any Qur'anic form, rythm or beauty. Also it is in Syriac Arabic and full of many grammatical flaws.

Check it out for yourself.

http://tyros.leb.net/gibran/indexar.html

But I do thank you for getting me started on this. It is a beautiful bit of Arabic Poetry, but I doubt if any Arabic speaker, even non-Muslim ones would classify it on the same level as the Qur'an.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

I no longer have my copy of "The Prophet" I checked through my books I still do have. I guess it was one that got lost when I lost my house.

But I did find it on line in it's original. Here you can read it yourself in it's original Arabic. Now you tell me if you honestly believe that even approaches any Qur'anic form, rythm or beauty. Also it is in Syriac Arabic and full of many grammatical flaws.

Check it out for yourself.

http://tyros.leb.net/gibran/indexar.html

But I do thank you for getting me started on this. It is a beautiful bit of Arabic Poetry, but I doubt if any Arabic speaker, even non-Muslim ones would classify it on the same level as the Qur'an.





Those are really interested can order the book .
Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled ''


And We'll let them see if Challenge Has / Was Met , Let them be the judge if what I post cut-paste . After they have read the book It's only FAIR Right ! Remember Zulkiflim ask of this not me .


I knew way before I post this you wouldn't accept it this was expected , Your Muslims Your not going to agree this , You think I didn't know this going to happen .

Going to your favorite website Doesn't change thing book have already been written .
 
Last edited:
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Woodrow , Question


Do Muslims Worship The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) .
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

No we don't!
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Now Zulkiflim doesn't know anybetter he to busy playing tricknowledge and follow the leader ( But ) .

With all do respect you should know by now I NEVER MAKE Claim's , I never speak on ANYTHING I don't know , If I don't something I'll Say I Don't Know . I already know few here waiting for me to say something and and can't back it up . That's why I Never make Claim . Those who will accept what I post will and those who wont ..Wont . It's just a disussion to me nothing more .


Salaam,

I just wish to point out that you did make an allegation or rather a claim ..that muslim are supposed to read the Bible.

We muslim as one here,,say NO..
Bt you say Yes.

So in short you were making a claim,an unjustified claim..but to you is justified.

And even after we hav told you your CLAIMS are wrong,you still persist in believing.

So in ignorance you strated,in rebellion you ended.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

pls don't patronize me!
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Those are really interested can order the book .
Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled ''


And We'll let them see if Challenge Has / Was Met , Let them be the judge if what I post cut-paste . After they have read the book It's only FAIR Right ! Remember Zulkiflim ask of this not me .


I knew way before I post this you wouldn't accept it this was expected , Your Muslims Your not going to agree this , You think I didn't know this going to happen .

Going to your favorite website Doesn't change thing book have already been written .

Salaam,

Then may ia ask,,Who say it was met?

LOLO..i am trully interested in this.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

:sl:
pls don't patronize me!
Why not ignore the jacka$$es?

wa-salaam alaikum

N.B. I know, now, that site policy and aim is to save people thru dialogue but my contention is that there is no saving the shayaateen for they are single mindedly determined to corrupt, failing that they resort to mocking to provoke a reaction.
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Woodrow , Question


Do Muslims Worship The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) .

salaam,

No we dont,,

Now a question,just now you said you only post and ask on FACTS..

Pls provide the facts that say we muslim worhsip Propeht Muhammad saw?

Unless you wish to change the subject again..
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

I happen to very familiar with the work of Khalil GIbran both in Arabic and English, here is an excerpt from one of his poems..How is it like the Quran?
A Tear And A Smile
I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart
For the joys of the multitude.
And I would not have the tears that sadness makes
To flow from my every part turn into laughter.

I would that my life remain a tear and a smile.

A tear to purify my heart and give me understanding
Of life's secrets and hidden things.
A smile to draw me nigh to the sons of my kind and
To be a symbol of my glorification of the gods.

A tear to unite me with those of broken heart;
A smile to be a sign of my joy in existence.

I would rather that I died in yearning and longing than that I live Weary and despairing.

Personally I like the work of Antonio Machado the most, even above baudelaire's fleur du mal , which I thought epitomized poetic genius.. yet Machado captures the heart and soul of a poet in a few simple lines and can be very much appreciated in the simple poem
The wind, one brilliant day


The wind, one brilliant day, called

to my soul with an odor of jasmine.


"In return for the odor of my jasmine,

I'd like all the odor of your roses."


"I have no roses; all the flowers

in my garden are dead."


"Well then, I'll take the withered petals

and the yellow leaves and the waters of the fountain."


The wind left. And I wept. And I said

"What have you done with the garden that was entrusted to you ?"

Being a native Arabic speaker, and a poet myself as I have in the way of 73 poems copyrighted, I haven't found the work of any man or woman to be comparable to that of the Quran-- I have even read some of the early works the Arabs brought forth to meet with the challenge of the Quran, like the poem
Al feel,
Al feel, wama adrak ma'alfeel zilomoho taweel wa zhylho qaseer,
oh how it rhymes, but of pure nonsense!...
Bottom line is, this is the sort of crap you can sell to fools like Alapiana1 who'd readily buy it and slap it on various forums, over here we'd just rip into your BS.

peace!
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

:sl:

Why not ignore the jacka$$es?

wa-salaam alaikum

N.B. I know, now, that site policy and aim is to save people thru dialogue but my contention is that there is no saving the shayaateen for they are single mindedly determined to corrupt, failing that they resort to mocking to provoke a reaction.




My My little felow do you cuss in the masjid like that , Or just here where you can get away with it because your so-call Muslim
 
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Jacka$$ is another name for a foolish person who is as stubborn as a donkey like creature.And no I dont curse in masjid or anywhere else, Allah is the one who curses a shaitan like you. BTW I am housebound and unable to attend Masjid

edit:
P.S my post was addressed to my sister and not to you.
 
Last edited:
Re: Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

salaam,

No we dont,,

Now a question,just now you said you only post and ask on FACTS..

Pls provide the facts that say we muslim worhsip Propeht Muhammad saw?

Unless you wish to change the subject again..



I do believe you change the subject when you ask the above question didn't you step on your lip this time didn't You . LOLOLOLOLOLOL Now When they order the book that can thank you for puting there business in the street ,
 

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