If

[Woodrow]

A better poll would be:
Are you?

A) Muslim: Its for Allah to decide.
b) Christian: I accept Jesus, i'm packing my suntan lotion and some good books.
c) Agnostic: Meh...I dunno, you dunno, God knows if he's there.
d) Atheiist: "My Emo-body will rot in the ground"

e) Hindu: "I like it here, I bought a round trip ticket"

 

[Camomilla]

As a Muslim I refuse to answer that poll as I view it as extreme arrogance to assume I know the Will of Allah(swt)

I totally agree :thumbs_up

 

[evangel]

As a Muslim I refuse to answer that poll as I view it as extreme arrogance to assume I know the Will of Allah(swt)

Um, Woodrow, basically you answered "I don't know"

 

[evangel]

In one of John's letters in the Bible it says, "I write these things so that you may know you have eternal life."
That's quite an assurance in a world that is "buyer beware" and "there are no guarantees".

 

[Woodrow]

Um, Woodrow, basically you answered "I don't know"

True. My statement in itself is a vote of "I don't Know". But, the fact remains that a poll such as this is quite invalid for a Muslim. It is very presumptuous and arrogant for us to to say we know the will of Allah(swt). I view it as very close to blasphemy for a person to say he is going to either Heaven or Hellfire.

I would rather answer:

I know that Allah(swt) has promised joy and rewards beyond comprehension to the believers. My goals and efforts are to be a true believer.

 

[Woodrow]

In one of John's letters in the Bible it says, "I write these things so that you may know you have eternal life."
That's quite an assurance in a world that is "buyer beware" and "there are no guarantees".

True, the bible says John said that. But, did you ever think that can also mean you will Know what a person needs to do to go to heaven? We can know we are trying. But, only Allah(swt) knows our true intentions and our true efforts. We can believe we are following the right path in the manner revealed to us. But, we are mere humans we are capable of error and can stray from that path and still believe we are on it. Our faith in salvation is dependent on our knowledge that the Will of Allah(swt) is both Just and Merciful.

I have seen many people became arrogant and boastful because they "think" they know they are "Saved". I can not fathom that Allah(swt) would teach people something that has the ability to lead them into arrogance.

Looking back in History that idea of "Knowing" you are saved has led to much sin and harm.

Using that logic would it not make the most since to immediately execute a person as soon as they become "saved" and save them from the pain and tribulations of this life. Shouldn't a merciful pastor give his parishoners the gift of immediate paradise by killing all of "Saved" parishioners? would not suicide be the greatest thing a person who "knows" he is saved could do?

I am certain you can see the stupidity of that statement. But if a person actually "Knew" he was going to heaven, all of that is perfectly logical.

Misguided Suicide Bombers" know" they are going to Heaven.

Early Missionaries to the Americas knew they were sending recently converted Indians to heaven by having them hung immediately after they were baptised and knew they were saved.

Members of the KKK know they are going to heaven. I have met several KKK members and the ones I have met all believe they are saved born again Christians and are assured of heaven.

To be honest I do not know if those people will or will not go to heaven. What right do I have to doubt that, for reasons I do not understand, they could be doing the will of Allah(swt).

 

[evangel]

Well, if you were to stand before God today and he asked, "Why should I let you into My heaven?", what reason(s) would you give?

 

[Woodrow]

Well, if you were to stand before God today and he asked, "Why should I let you into My heaven?", what reason(s) would you give?

"Al-Hamdu lillaahi Rabbil-'Aalamiin, wa Maaliki Yawmid-Diin. Inshallah."

(Praise to Allah(swt), cherisher, sustainer of the Universe and Master of Judgement Day, Your will be done.)



Who am I to give any reason? I accept the will of Allah(swt). Allah(swt) knows all I have done and thought and all I will do. After I die I can not undo what I have done in this life.

 

[evangel]

Who am I to give any reason? I accept the will of Allah(swt). Allah(swt) knows all I have done and thought and all I will do. After I die I can not undo what I have done in this life.

So the Koran was written to guide you in the ways of Allah(swt) but when it comes to the end your obedience doesn't mean a thing. Are you saying, and I may be misinterpreting you completely, that the Koran does not assist you on the path to eternal life, that there is no assurance in it?

 

[Woodrow]

So the Koran was written to guide you in the ways of Allah(swt) but when it comes to the end your obedience doesn't mean a thing. Are you saying, and I may be misinterpreting you completely, that the Koran does not assist you on the path to eternal life, that there is no assurance in it?

It is a very difficult thing for a Non-Muslim to understand. I believe the Jews have somewhat a similar concept and can understand.

A 'Readers Digest Condensed Version" of what I believe.

The Qur'an teaches us about Islam. The Ahadith teaches us how to follow Islam(be Muslim)

We Know:

We are to follow God(swt). the Qur'an tells us what God(swt) wants to do, Worship Him alone.

We know God(swt) is all just and knowing.

We know that God(swt) has promised great rewards for the Believers.

We know God(swt) has given us ample instructions on how to be a Believer.


I know that if I die as a true Believer Allah(swt) will keep his promises.

I believe I am doing my best as a True Believer. However, I can not predict the future and since I am Human it is still possible for me to deny Islam one second before I die. Only Allah(swt) knows what my thoughts and belief will be at the moment of my death. I can not know, I can pray for strngth and guidance.

It is only the will of God(swt0 that is permanent and that is what will determine my fate.

Actually the Christian concept of a person knowing he is saved is fairly new and from I see of American Protestant origin.

Let us take a look at the beliefs of some of the earlier Christian denominations and what they used to believe, I'm avoiding Islamic sites for this information.:

Fourthly, we cannot believe that Christ's death and sufferings so satisfies God or justifies men, as that they are thereby accepted of God : they are indeed thereby put into a state capable of being accepted of God, and, through the obedience of faith and sanctification of the Spirit, are in a state of acceptance: for we can never think a man justified before God, while self-condemned: or that any man can be in Christ who is not a new creature, or that God looks upon men otherwise than they are. We think it a state of presumption and not of salvation, to call Jesus Lord, and not by the work of the Holy Ghost: Master, and he not yet master of their affections : Saviour, and they not saved by him from their sins: Redeemer, and yet they not redeemed by him from their passion, pride, covetousness, wantonness, vanity, vain honours, friendships, and glory of this world: which were to deceive themselves ; for God will not be mocked. Such as men sow, such they must reap. And though Christ did die for us, yet we must, by the assistance of his grace, work out our salvation with fear and trembling : as he died for sin, so we must die to sin, or we cannot be said to be saved by the death and sufferings of Christ, or thoroughly justified and accepted with God. Thus far negatively. Now, positively, what we own as to justification.

Source: http://www.strecorsoc.org/penn/pcr_08.html

It has been proper to consider fear in connection with hope, because it is the other side of hope.
We have a sure and certain hope of eternal happiness, as far as God is concerned; we have a sober fear, as far as we ourselves are concerned, lest we offend God, and be separated from Him and so lose our eternal happi*ness. That this hope and fear is a virtue, and that it is our duty to cooperate with God when He inspires it in us, will become clear from another angle, if we consider briefly the two vices which are opposed to hope. The first of these is presumption.

We presume by relying too much either on our own powers or on the mercy of God. Thus, for instance, the Pelagians have the sin of presumption, because they think that man can attain salvation by the exercise of his own powers, and that the help of God is not necessary but only useful. And all persons who give up the practice of religion, not because they think the creeds false, nor because they think the Christian moral ideals wrong, but because they think they are competent to pursue those ideals by themselves, have this sin of presumption. Others sin by presumption when they rely too much on the loving kindness of God, as for instance that God will forgive us whether we repent or no: and that He will give us grace even if we do not bother to use the sacraments. Very often this kind of pre*sumption is made a handle for sin, as when we say that "we may as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb", meaning it is just as easy for God to forgive, or that He will anyway forgive, a grave sin as a small one, or twenty sins as one sin. And the whole attitude towards God expressed in the phrase "Ie bon Dieii'", and the tendency to postpone amendment of life to one's old age, borders on this sin of presumption.
And it is a sin, first, because it maintains a false and dishonourable view about God, —that He does not really mind about sin.
Secondly, because this attitude causes us to neglect the means of grace and forgive*ness, and is one form of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It makes the Holy Spirit powerless.

Source: http://www.katapi.org.uk/MoralTH/ChVIII.htm

Scripture passage he uses here is Luke 3:7-17–where John the Baptist addresses the multitude and warns them to “bear fruits worthy of repentance.” In particular I liked this portion about our tendency to presume we have been saved based on our parents’ religion or our own baptism with no accompanying fruit:

Second, notice how he points out a hindrance to a life of good works. He tells them not to say to themselves, “we have Abraham as our father.” To claim Abraham as an ancestor without having the faith of Abraham is worthless. This is called the sin of presumption. It was true in the days of John the Baptist and it is true today. I would imagine that many of the people who were coming out to John at the River were insincere. That is what he implies by calling them a generation of vipers. Even coming out to him and being baptized was worthless unless it bore fruit in their lives. Unless they left his baptism of repentance and lived a life of repentance, their baptism availed nothing. The same is true today. People rely on the Christian testimony of their parents or they rely on their own baptism without bearing the fruit which that baptism calls for. This is called presumption.

Some people rely on some decision they made at some point in their life without any thought of an ongoing life of faith and repentance. Maybe they walked the aisle at some evangelistic crusade and said a prayer. Or maybe they watched some television show where they were called to believe in Jesus by saying a prayer. But their lives are unchanged. Many who do such things never darken the door of a Church to worship God; many go on living as they had previously with some false hope of being right with God. Many treat their decision—in whatever form it was made—as some cheap fire insurance for the next life. All of this is the sin of presumption.

Source: http://prydain.wordpress.com/2006/12/

 

[evangel]

We know God(swt) has given us ample instructions on how to be a Believer.
I believe I am doing my best as a True Believer.

So if you don't follow the instructions correctly or if your incorrect behavior is more than your correct behavior then you can ruin your chances of heaven.

 

[Woodrow]

So if you don't follow the instructions correctly or if your incorrect behavior is more than your correct behavior then you can ruin your chances of heaven.

All I know is Allah(swt) will never ask me to do what he has not given me the ability to do.

I have full faith that He will judge my behavior on the basis of the abilities and understandings he has given me.

There is no such thing as chances for heaven or hell. That is similar to a lottery.


The decisions of Allah(swt) are fair and just and I see know reason why I should not put my trust in what He has said and whatever he does.

I do not need to know if I am going to heaven or hell, I do need to know how to do my best to try to understand what Allah(swt) expects of me and that is laid out in the Qur'an and the Ahadith.

I do not understand your apparant need to Know that you are going to heaven.

 

[Balthasar21]

If you died today would you go to heaven?

Before I Can Answer Your Question , I Would Like To Know Where Heaven Is , Then I Would Like To Know What Can I Get In Heaven That Not Here On Earth ?

 

[evangel]

I Would Like To Know Where Heaven Is

Sorry I don't know, were you planning a trip?

Then I Would Like To Know What Can I Get In Heaven That Not Here On Earth ?

Actually what you don't get (sickness, pain, sorrow, regret, shame, etc...) is what grabs me. Also if you read Revelation it sounds like an incredible neighborhood.

 

[evangel]

I do not understand your apparant need to Know that you are going to heaven.

I don't need to know, I already do. For me to share what I believe I need to know where their heart is.

Do you understand the biblical meaning of Grace?

 

[barney]

Before I Can Answer Your Question , I Would Like To Know Where Heaven Is , Then I Would Like To Know What Can I Get In Heaven That Not Here On Earth ?

It's on Kolob.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

You get loads of stuff free and dont have to work for it and your assigned a planet of your own to rule. Which would be pretty cool.

Mines going to be made out of gataux and have a ice-Cream sea. the trees are going to grow beer bottles on them.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

As bro Woodrow said, it'd be arrogant to assume I know I'm going to heaven. As humans we are prone to mistakes and InshaAllah, if we try to live according to the Qur'an and Sunnah sincerely, our end will be good. But again, thats up to Allah(swt) to decide. As Muslims we should repent everyday to Allah(swt) and ask for His forgiveness and guidance, InshaAllah. As humans we can't even predict how our mind will change in the next few moments or who will die suddenly, how would you expect to predict your life after death?

Peace

 

[snakelegs]

didn't vote because i don't believe in an after life, (tho i can't deny that it is possible) but i am curious, how would anyone presume to know they are going to heaven?

 

[barney]

Because those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour know. Theyve been told. So it's knowlage.

 

[evangel]

Because those who have accepted Jesus as their saviour know. Theyve been told. So it's knowlage.

You're good at this, wanna join the club.