~ Israel Provoked Six-Day War ~

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Hi Trumble:

While some honour may have been restored among the military and politicians, it evidently was not restored among the people or the religious leaders. How could God be on the Arab nation’s side and have allowed them suffer such a humiliating defeat within 6 days. Remember many men died in that short space of time.

The legacy has been an unjustified and sustained hatred of the US and the UK that remains to this day. The most irresponsible act that a teacher and parent can do is to teach their students and children respectively to hate another person. Who is willing to tell the new generation of persons in the Middle East the truth?

Regards
Grenville

where you get your info from? yes arab people did feel they restored their honor with the war of 73, they now felt they made up for the 6 day war defeat and that was that.

as for god being on their side in the 6 day war, so have christians and jews won EVERY war and battle they have been in? no they havent, so therefore if you lose one war ah yes this then means god is never on your side and is actually against you, wow i guess god pretty much hates the jews then according to your logic since he let hitler literally wipe the floor with them. not only that, i guess god must also really hate western nations since he let you kill hundred of thousands of each other combined during ww1 and ww2.

not only that i guess god has now changed sides because a 10000 israeli idf force couldnt beat a 2000 hezbollah force! the last war between the israelis and arabs was won by the arabs, all israel can boast about is destroying buildings and infastructure, but that means nothing as buildings and infastructure can be rebuilt, however so losing moral among your soldiers and getting generals resigning and even admiting the war wasnt won is a very hard thing to recover from. :) israel no longer feels that superiority they once had thanks to the lebanon war, this is why their looking for another war to heal their wounds and damaged morals, but too bad this aint the 40's and 50's and 60's no more because in todays present day israel has no chance of destroying and completly beating the arabs like before, unless they would use a nuke which would not only wipe us out, but themselves included hence lol we still win as we go to heaven and them to hell and israel is wiped of the map! :)
 
where you get your info from? yes arab people did feel they restored their honor with the war of 73, they now felt they made up for the 6 day war defeat and that was that.

as for god being on their side in the 6 day war, so have christians and jews won EVERY war and battle they have been in? no they havent, so therefore if you lose one war ah yes this then means god is never on your side and is actually against you, wow i guess god pretty much hates the jews then according to your logic since he let hitler literally wipe the floor with them. not only that, i guess god must also really hate western nations since he let you kill hundred of thousands of each other combined during ww1 and ww2.

not only that i guess god has now changed sides because a 10000 israeli idf force couldnt beat a 2000 hezbollah force! the last war between the israelis and arabs was won by the arabs, all israel can boast about is destroying buildings and infastructure, but that means nothing as buildings and infastructure can be rebuilt, however so losing moral among your soldiers and getting generals resigning and even admiting the war wasnt won is a very hard thing to recover from. :) israel no longer feels that superiority they once had thanks to the lebanon war, this is why their looking for another war to heal their wounds and damaged morals, but too bad this aint the 40's and 50's and 60's no more because in todays present day israel has no chance of destroying and completly beating the arabs like before, unless they would use a nuke which would not only wipe us out, but themselves included hence lol we still win as we go to heaven and them to hell and israel is wiped of the map! :)

your logic and thought processes never cease to be a waste of post space, all you wish for is arguments and humility, which is ironic since you almost always lose the arguments (which you then claim to win, because people realize your stupidity and stop wasting their time to reply to your ignorant posts) and you never cease to humiliate yourself.
:D
 
Hi Sami Zaatari:

where you get your info from? yes arab people did feel they restored their honor with the war of 73, they now felt they made up for the 6 day war defeat and that was that.

1. Have you read the rhetoric from the various factions before the war. It seemed that defeat was impossible – so much so that even after the Egyptian military had been defeated, Nasser kept misleading the region claiming that the Egyptian forces were victorious. Why could he not tell them the truth. To this day, the erroneous assertion of US and UK participation is taught to Egyptian school children at school by their teachers and text books. To this day, they seem unable to face the facts of the 6-day war.


as for god being on their side in the 6 day war ...

2. I may have contributed to your apparent misinterpretation of my post. I did not mean to indicate the God was on anybody’s side of the conflict. I should have written: The religious leaders must have wondered “How could God be on the Arab nation’s side and have allowed them suffer such a humiliating defeat within 6 days.”

Regards,
Grenville
 
where you get your info from? yes arab people did feel they restored their honor with the war of 73, they now felt they made up for the 6 day war defeat and that was that.

as for god being on their side in the 6 day war, so have christians and jews won EVERY war and battle they have been in? no they havent, so therefore if you lose one war ah yes this then means god is never on your side and is actually against you, wow i guess god pretty much hates the jews then according to your logic since he let hitler literally wipe the floor with them. not only that, i guess god must also really hate western nations since he let you kill hundred of thousands of each other combined during ww1 and ww2.

not only that i guess god has now changed sides because a 10000 israeli idf force couldnt beat a 2000 hezbollah force! the last war between the israelis and arabs was won by the arabs, all israel can boast about is destroying buildings and infastructure, but that means nothing as buildings and infastructure can be rebuilt, however so losing moral among your soldiers and getting generals resigning and even admiting the war wasnt won is a very hard thing to recover from. :) israel no longer feels that superiority they once had thanks to the lebanon war, this is why their looking for another war to heal their wounds and damaged morals, but too bad this aint the 40's and 50's and 60's no more because in todays present day israel has no chance of destroying and completly beating the arabs like before, unless they would use a nuke which would not only wipe us out, but themselves included hence lol we still win as we go to heaven and them to hell and israel is wiped of the map! :)

Shalom,

First may I ask you Sami, how exactly did the Arab nations restore their “honor” in 1973? I was under the impression that the Arabs attacked Israel on the highest of all Jewish holidays, (the ultimate low blow) and then proceeded to lose. Maybe I am not recalling history correctly. Either way, the topic that was brought up is very interesting. To interpret which “side” G-d is on, by the result of a war, seems a bit odd, however Judaism teaches us something very significant in this regard. In my belief, as a people with a mission the Jewish people will never die out, as we have survived the likes of Roman, Greece, Nazi Germany etc. Not to mention that according to many Jews, a state should never have been made because of religious reasons. Either way, it was created so now it is a fact of life and the ultimate decider on religious views is how many lives will be lost or saved.

When the Arabs attack Israel, I believe that nothing could prevent their total loss, because they would have slaughtered every Jew in the land. But in regards to mere battles that are not fought over survival, the level of religiosity in Israel, (which is at about 30% who follow Torah) we will not necessarily win wars.

This is of course in my view the birth pangs of the Messiah. The Vilna Gaon (1700’s) wrote in Sefer Kol Hator (translation) that “If the Jews follow the glorious Torah they will be led by the divine into the promise land and Moshiach will come, however, if they reject the Torah they will enter the promised land weeping, head held down as the nations allow them back just like Cyrus allowed the Jews back to build the Second Temple before the Messiah reveals himself.”

The interesting part of this is the accuracy the Vilna Gaon’s prediction had in that the Jews of the 1940’s were not very religious, more focused on nationalism, and therefore entered the Holy Land weeping (after the Holocaust) and the nations (UN) allowed them back, just like Cyrus and the nations of the world allowed the Jews safe return to build the Second Bais Hamikdash.

However I am ranting, so I will try to stay on topic. Winning a war or “wiping the floor with Jews” as you referred to the holocaust, is always viewed as the worst thing possible. It was a terrible thing indeed and Hitler was one of the worst of humanity as the terrorists are today who kill. However, does this mean that the Jewish people are no longer favored by G-d because of the Holocaust? I think not. On the contrary, the Holocaust was in reality one of the greatest miracles, as was and has been anti-Semitism throughout the ages.

The fact is that the German Jews assimilated, so this is why it had to occur. The Germans had free will so they are completley accountable for their crimes, because it was G-d literally letting the Germans/Non-Jews of Europe reveal their true colors. In 1930's Germany the largest rebellion against the Torah occured. Intermarriage was as high as 50% and the German Jews were forgetting Judaism. Therefore they were reminded about Judaism, in the most ruthless way.

Anti-Semitism is the greatest blessing Whenever the Goyam (Non-Jews) act like anti-semites, than we are reminded we are Jews and we are less willing to act like them and leave the Torah. Therefore, we praise G-d for allowing such an odd occurance of all these nations, be it parts of the Islamic world today, Germany, Czar's, Soviets... They kept us Jewish and maintained our peoplehood.

Some of us tried to act like Germans in dress and what occured? We were labeled with yellow stars that said "Juden". Some of us changed our names to German anmes so what did the Germans do? Made it mandatory to have the middle name "Israel" for every Jew. The Germans literally kept us Jewish, yet we continued to rebel against the Torah.

Yes, the majority who died wereare religious Jews because of their garb, but I will relate to you a story. In the Wilderness, all the Jews kept the Sabbath except for one man who accidently broke it. What did G-d say? "You all sinned". Of course I am not saying the Holocaust was good, I am recongnizing that throughout history, when the Jewish people rebel against G-d, we are under an eternal agreement with his Torah and Him, so we will be brought into line. Hitler and all who commit the crimes are accountables still mainly because it was their free will. I will explain in more in depth:

For men whose final goal is the afterlife, assimilation is worse than death. These phenomenons’s are but a few of the countless machinery that which the Master of history has ceaselessly carried out to preserve the Chosen community. When Hitler was burning European Jews, a prominent newspaper here expressed some pity for these “miserable wretches”. This mentality of these gentiles to admire the men of violence and those who “fight” and despise the weak, is a disgusting one.

Since the Jews fell into the trap of trying to emulate the Germans so much, G-d allowed the Germans to do their utmost to show who they truly are. Those Jews that began to ignore their soul, and in imitation, like all those around them began to only focus on the needs of the body, were made to see how their efforts were ended in the worst ruination of Jewish bodied in history (The Germans burned my people after gassing them). The Jews at this point were so infatuated by the schools of science and the German physicians and ignored their religion, and the covenant, therefore, look at the disgusting nature of the physicians which were revealed (They performed disgusting experiments on my people).

In an era, when such discriminatory laws and ghettos were unknown, this sudden phenomenon to medieval times was truly startling! Now this theory may seem disgusting to you, and it is to me as well, but ponder on this. Judaism teaches that you should die than rather renounce the Torah. Therefore, a Jew who died in the Holocaust is tremendously better off in the long run as a Jew who died because of his religion, then a Jew who would assimilate and renounce the Torah in Germany. Of course, Hitler and his demons had free will as we all do; their true nature was just revealed to us. Therefore, every action they committed results in punishment for them. I am no way saying the Holocaust is not anything less than the worst of all genocide, I am just saying that everything in the world has a purpose, which we may or may not ever understand.

The bottom line is that the more anti-Semitism, we as Jews receive the more our community is preserved and the more we as Jews are not so eager to intermarry and forsake the Torah to join secular culture. It is a known fact that the less anti-Semitism is exhibited in an area, the more assimilation occurs.

Written a while ago on this forum:

Although all the great and powerful ancient nations are gone, the Jews, have survived. This is because the Jews throughout the centuries knew the secret of survival. Jewish survival, at least.

That is, whereas the other Nations survive based on who is stronger, where the Jewish nation is concerned, it is just the opposite. For us to remain safe, we are instructed by Hashem in the Gemora in Kesuvos not to defy the nations of the world, even when we are right and they are wrong. We do not survive by waging wars or by any show of physical strength. On the contrary - the less we are in conflict with the nations of the world, the safer we are. The more we are in conflict with them, the more deadly it is for us. Regardless of how physically "strong" we are.

This is how we have so miraculously survived two thousand years of (exile) Golus. By following the instructions of Torah and our sages throughout the generations: Do NOT fight with the Goyim (Non-Jews).

If we do fight with them, we can only lose r"l. The Gemora says the result will be that Jewish blood will be spilled "like that of game hunted in the field."

Writes Rabbeinu Bachya (Vayishlach): "So too we must follow the ways of our ancestors, and to prepare ourselves to engage the [Goyim] with gifts and with soft speech, and by praying to Hashem. But [to engage them] with war is not possible, as it says (Shir HaShirim 2:7) 'I have made you swear....' Hashem made the Jews swear that they will not confront the nations of the world in war." However, self defense or protection of Jewish life is a justifiable means for war.​

So the conclusion I have come to is that the winner of the war is in reality not in anyway on G-d’s side. Of course G-d will intervene to save The Jewish people as He has done so many time before because of our specific mission. But when fighting a worthless war, against a bunch of “thugs” like in Lebanon, why should Israel win? It is not life or death and 70% of the population continues to violate the Torah. So of course, Israel will survive against Arab threats, however, we are undeserving of winning battles for the sake of fighting. That is the way of the non-Jewish nations (the goyam). The Jewish people should not fight battles in (golus) exile. We are not meant to.

To end my very long post (thank you if you took the time to read so far is this): From the Jewish Oral Tradition codified thousands of years ago; Persia, (which is Iran) The Khazal inform us that before the Messiah comes Persia will fall at the hands of Rome (and vice-versa). [On an external level, all eyes are on Iran's nuclear development, but the chess-board of world politics is merely the playing out of the internal divine drama of the Jewish people.] (from, Talmud, Yoma 10a)

Paras according to the sages equals Persia:

Last Shabbos after Mincha, Jews all over the world recited the first chapter of Pirkei Avos. The third Mishna states:

Antigonus of Socho received the Torah from Shimon the Righteous. He used to say: Be not like servants who minister unto their master for the sake of receiving a reward [pras פרס], but be like servants who serve their master not upon the condition of receiving a reward [pras פרס]; and let the fear (awe) of Heaven be upon you.

As explained in Chassidus (see for example Ohr Hatorah Bamidbar III, 583a), Paras (פרס) is from the word פרוסה meaning a "slice", a fraction of something much greater (a slice of the whole pie). Specifically, this refers to the Divine hashpa'a in Gan Eden that results from learning Torah and performing mitzvos. In this Mishna, we are being told not to serve our Master (Hashem) for the "reward" that is generated by our divine service in refining sparks of kedusha. This includes the neshoma above which enjoys these revelations now--because these revelations are merely a "slice" (Paras) of the essence of the mitzva, which will only be experienced in the World to Come with the revival of the dead after Moshiach comes.

Based on this, we can understand why the fall of Paras precedes the redemption: because as long as our neshomas are enjoying the "slice" of the reward for refining the world through mitzvos, they are distracted, so to speak, from the ultimate goal: the coming of Moshiach and the revelation of the "whole pie".​

Have a great weekend and peace to all of you.

This whole Iran thing should play out to be very interesting. Of course the sages having been telling us about this way before Iran’s nuclear program hit the news, and thousands of years before a state of Israel was created. :-) They relate, before the Moshaich the “threat of Persia” -- (From the Mordechai ibn Yosef) must fall before Moshiach (Messiah) arrives.
 
your logic and thought processes never cease to be a waste of post space, all you wish for is arguments and humility, which is ironic since you almost always lose the arguments (which you then claim to win, because people realize your stupidity and stop wasting their time to reply to your ignorant posts) and you never cease to humiliate yourself.
:D

instead of barking like a dog which is what you always do, why dont you try refuting what i say? nah, your just a typical barking neocon who cant reply, hence you make stupid useless posts which show how bad i get to you because i thought you dont care about what i say, hence why do you always reply to it trying to attack me personally instead of refuting it? as i said, a barking dog thats all you are. when you can actually refute anything i say once, then maybe you can take the label of a barking dog off you, until then thats exactly what you are, woof!
 
iran isnt persia anymore. :) lol so it seems your prophesy has failed. it wouldve been better had they said Islamic republic of iran, rather than persia, cause the 2 things are very different, the persian empire did fall, and not at the hands of jews, but muslims, :) and your messiah came even before the fall of persia, and he was Jesus, and you rejected him, and tried to kill him, hence that prophecy of bin yosef is pure garbage if you ask me. :)
 
instead of barking like a dog which is what you always do, why dont you try refuting what i say? nah, your just a typical barking neocon who cant reply, hence you make stupid useless posts which show how bad i get to you because i thought you dont care about what i say, hence why do you always reply to it trying to attack me personally instead of refuting it? as i said, a barking dog thats all you are. when you can actually refute anything i say once, then maybe you can take the label of a barking dog off you, until then thats exactly what you are, woof!

What am I to refute? You presented nothing factual as usual, you simply typed our hatred for others and left yet another stain on this forum.

In this post you speak of how bad you get me because I respond, I dont have to care of what you say to respond with an opinion about how worthless your post is, which is also why I went after you personally rather than your post, because your post is worthless garbage unworthy of response, whereas something can be gained by responding to your person, which is exactly what I got, you puppet, proof that you are a vile disrespectful human being...lol.. sure Sami, you really nailed me...lol.. give me a break, I am sure your posts will be disposed of as usual shortly
 
What am I to refute? You presented nothing factual as usual, you simply typed our hatred for others and left yet another stain on this forum.

In this post you speak of how bad you get me because I respond, I dont have to care of what you say to respond with an opinion about how worthless your post is, which is also why I went after you personally rather than your post, because your post is worthless garbage unworthy of response, whereas something can be gained by responding to your person, which is exactly what I got, you puppet, proof that you are a vile disrespectful human being...lol.. sure Sami, you really nailed me...lol.. give me a break, I am sure your posts will be disposed of as usual shortly

woof woof i hear a dog barking SHHHHHHHHHHHHH silence! *throws bone*

stop blabbering plz, go to some dating or general forum for that, if you have nothing to say connected to the topic, or points raised for the topic then simply keep your blabbering mouth shut, comprenday? if you dont like that too bad and too sad, thats the way it is. so plz AGAIN try refuting what i say, instead of barking plz.

and notice how stupid you are, by trying to make me look bad, you make urself look bad because you admit your trying to provoke me:

which is also why I went after you personally rather than your post, because your post is worthless garbage unworthy of response, whereas something can be gained by responding to your person, which is exactly what I got, you puppet, proof that you are a vile disrespectful human being

lol talk about stupid, so basically you admit you try to provoke me, and then call me disrespectful and vile when infact you are provoking a nasty reaction! wow! talk about idiocy at its highest! so as i say, keep it up, you make urself look really silly. and btw, you didnt provoke me at all, calling you a barking dog isnt an insult, its a fact, thats what you are, you keep writing nonsense which has nothing to do with the topic or points of the topic, hence all you do is bark bark.

but anyways thanks for showing how most of you neocons are, you try to provoke only, thanks for admitting it, i always knew you were looking for fights and trouble, how typical, oh well thats an infidel for you. No wonder Allah called you the lowest of the low. :)
 
Hi Rav:

I read it all and found it very interesting. It may be that God was disappointed with the idol worship in Africa and allowed the African Diaspora. He may also have been disappointed with the idol worship in the Caribbean which resulted in their displacement by colonisers who were then displaced by the descendants of their African slaves.

The scriptures seem to indicate that once a nation has exceeded a specified amount of wickedness, then judgement occurs, and that judgement is usually carried out by another nation. The rain of judgement falls on the just and the unjust – it seems that the unjust deserve it and the just should have restrained them during the time of grace.

E.g. But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” Gen 15:16

It is therefore important for responsible citizens to try to restrain (obviously in a peaceful manner) those who are contributing to their nation’s iniquity. In democracies, the very least that responsible citizens can do is to not vote for those candidates whose policies would add to their national iniquity.

Let me add that this is all speculation which will be confirmed or dismissed at the end of the age.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Regards,
Grenville
 
Iran isnt persia anymore. lol so it seems your prophesy has failed. it wouldve been better had they said Islamic republic of iran, rather than persia, cause the 2 things are very different, the persian empire did fall, and not at the hands of jews, but muslims, and your messiah came even before the fall of persia, and he was Jesus, and you rejected him, and tried to kill him, hence that prophecy of bin yosef is pure garbage if you ask me.

On the contrary Sami, the people who are the Persians are the ones that speak Persian and live in the region of Persia. Which country has an official language of Persian in the region of Persia?

A side note: I'm interested in the prophecy of the "Dajjal" being followed by 70,000 Jews of Isfahan, when the Jewish population continues to decrease in Isfahan. However, anyway the point of me posting once again before the Sabbath was merely to clarify that the prophecy is in no way broken as the Persian speakers are indeed still in control of Iran. If Iran begins to adapt Arabic culture and no begins to speak Arabic as the offical tounge than maybe we can discuss that Khazal was wrong in Yoma.

hence that prophecy of bin yosef is pure garbage if you ask me.

Fair enough. However, I beg to differ and although I really did not ask you, but instead posted an interesting prophecy, it must be connected to the overall geula which is from the Vilna Gaon, saying in the year 1700 "the nations would allow the Jewish people back weeping like Cyrus did in the Second Temple era" Of course I guess you could dispute that "the nations" means The UN, but that would be a very desperate claim to make.

________

But anyway, lets stay on topic Sami. Did you disagree with my overall position in the post on wars and G-d? I'll get back to you next week. The Sabbath is almost here.
 
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yes the population of jews in iran is going down now, but does that mean it cant go back up? 70,000 jews is not an extremly high number at all.
 
:sl:/Peace To All

The Three-Year War (Six-Day War, 1967)
Courtesy Of: Al-Ahram
(Egypt)
5 - 11 June 1997
Issue No.328
Ahram

General Mohamed Fawzi, former minister of defence, was the chief of general staff of the Egyptian forces in June 1967, during what is known as the five-day war.

But Fawzi's first words are a correction of dates. The war, he considers, lasted not five days but three years.

---------------------

The war started on 5 June 1967, and ended in August 1970. Israel, however, had been preparing for war for ten long years before June 1967 and the US, Israel's active ally, supported these preparations.

Although the US had forced Israel to withdraw from Sinai in 1956, a secret document which was revealed 11 years later underlined the nature of the alliance between the two countries.

In a letter addressed to the Israeli government, President Eisenhower wrote: 'The United States pledges to keep the Gulf of Aqaba open for navigation as an international waterway.'


The document was concealed from all parties including Egypt, until May 1967, when it was made public by Washington. But why was it made public at that particular time?

The goal, which we learned later, was to provoke Egypt into reacting violently, thus turning international public opinion against it.

"After 1956, Israel formulated a plan for a comprehensive war against Egypt, the largest Arab state and the main threat to Israel's future. Ben Gurion believed that striking at the top would improve conditions for Israel, particularly since Egypt had made substantial progress in its first five-year plan (1962-1967).

"As part of the indemnities for Nazi war crimes, Israel concluded a number of arms deals providing it with Mirage-3 and Mirage-5 planes from France. Upgrading its airforce was part of a military plan known as Zion, which consisted of a vast air strike against Egypt, to be followed by a massive advance of its land troops. According to this plan, Israel trained its pilots in low-altitude flying, at 30 metres from sea level to gain skill for staging an air strike that would wipe out Egypt. The Zion plan included 10 years of training and preparation.

"A US intelligence warship sailed from the western coast of Africa and docked off Port Said. The ship sent information about the Egyptian military situation to Israeli planes coming from Tel Aviv to Sinai and Port Said. Starting on 4 June, the US warship had been providing Israel with intelligence on Egypt's main units in Sinai, particularly the fourth armoured division.

Interference by US intelligence operations was so damaging that, when the war broke out on 5 June, wireless communications between the Egyptian command and the forces were impossible. This crippled the management of the war.

The US sent a strategic airforce equipped with infrared devices to allow night flying, a practice not favoured by Israel.

US air squadron 66 stationed in Britain, also participated effectively in the war by carrying out reconnaissance work for the Israelis.

The Sixth Fleet, meanwhile, was guarding Israeli waters.

Nasser knew exactly what he was talking about when he accused the US of participating in the war.

"The June war was a premeditated military aggression planned since 1957.

The Israeli commander of the south zone, in a press conference after the war, said:

'My conscience can no longer bear this burden of silence nor the perpetration of deceit and dishonesty. I must admit that the June 1967 War was an offensive planned and premeditated by Israel, precisely since the end of 1956. Provoking the Arabs was part of the plan.'

"The political and military scandal caused by his confession ranked second only to the famous Lavon scandal.

The Knesset had called for a committee to investigate the case, and Golda Meir wept her refusal, saying: 'Do not tarnish our reputation and jeopardise our security.'

As a result, the whole matter was overlooked by the international media.

The Israeli general would not keep quiet, however. He resigned from the military and joined the Peace Now movement.

'We spent 10 long years with nothing on our minds but the Zion plan, for every eating, drinking, sleeping and waking hour. Finally, it was executed in 80 decisive minutes,' the Israeli commander stated.

"The Israeli plan was founded on three factors: surprise, deceit, and applying Israel's military principle of pushing any battle beyond the enemy's borders. In the first part, the airforce was to act; once its task was accomplished, the ground forces were to move in. In the event that the airforce failed to accomplish its task, the entire plan would be cancelled.

"The second part of the plan pertained to how Israel would deal with the Egyptian forces. El-Qaher, Egypt's defence plan, ratified in 1966, was conceived as the military dimension of the decision taken by the Arab Summit Meeting in 1964, to prevent Israel from expanding into Arab territory. The Egyptian plan focused on defence and deterrence techniques, while the Israeli forces were trained in attacks and raids."

...Egyptian support for Yemen meant sending forces as far as 2,600 nautical miles south, but in Fawzi's words, it was originally conceived as "a limited action comprising political, moral and material support -- by no means was it envisaged as an action that could drain our resources." Two battalions of special forces and an aircraft squadron were sent to Yemen to reinforce the nascent republican government and consolidate the revolution. Nasser himself referred to the support he sent to Yemen as "symbolic".

Egyptian military presence in Yemen, however, reached 70,000 servicemen in 1964.

According to Fawzi, although this contribution was made at a time when Israel seemed to be preparing for war, the political leadership in Egypt was not pessimistic enough to plan accordingly. Although the Egyptian military strategy was focused on the north-eastern axis, no significant effort was made to prepare for war in terms of equipment or training of military cadres.

Fawzi acknowledges the enormous error committed by expanding the operations in Yemen to cover the entire battle front, with its difficult mountains, vast deserts and tribal conflicts.

...The basic error, no doubt, was that our strategy lost its focus and looked south instead of north. This caused an imbalance in the focus of the military command responsible for national security.

...The Egyptian forces came back from Yemen and were sent to Sinai immediately, where they met a well-armed and highly-trained enemy.

"The Egyptian military command was handicapped by its lack of strategic reconnaissance facilities. Israel knew everything about us, while we knew nothing about its military might. Another problem was the complete separation between the political and the military leaderships in Egypt in the period preceding the war.

"In December 1966, Nasser received a coded message from Field Marshal Amer, who was on an official visit to Pakistan.

He wrote: 'It is our duty to consider ending the task of the United Nations emergency forces [stationed along the Egyptian-Israeli borders in Sinai]. Certain neighbouring Arab countries are accusing the Egyptian forces of hiding behind the emergency forces and refusing to lend other Arabs a hand.'

"This was the earliest sign of discord between the two top leaders of the country. Amer claimed to be representing the views of the high-ranking military, but this was not necessarily the case. He was speaking his own mind, and his decisions were arbitrary. The differences between the two men were to grow deeper over preparations for battle.

"The second important issue which highlighted Nasser and Amer's conflicting standpoints surfaced during a meeting attended by ministers and high-ranking officers.

Amer insisted on the closing of the Tiran Straits, a proposal opposed by all those attending.

He demanded: 'How can an Egyptian soldier bear to see the Israeli flag in the gulf?' The decision to close the Straits was taken at this meeting. Preparations and public mobilisation were stepped up, troops were moved, and the media captured the mood with excessive zeal.

"Nasser, however, did not wish to be distracted by side issues. He wanted to focus on the threat Israel posed to Syria.

He was aware that Egypt had hardly been able to provide the basics for the implementation of the El-Qaher plan.


"But Israel and the US would have gone ahead on 5 June whether the straits were closed or not, whether the emergency forces remained in place or were ordered to leave. While the threat to attack Syria seemed imminent, the plan for war against Egypt was ready.

"The decision to close the gulf had several negative consequences.

Executing the decision required enormous human and material resources, which compromised the effectiveness of El-Qaher, Egypt's defence plan. As a result, Amer had to withdraw part of the forces in Sinai to station them in Sharm El-Sheikh, but when he could no longer find forces, he began to draw on the strategic reserve forces, first a brigade of paratroopers and then the fourth armoured division, which is the strategic reserve of the state.

Therefore, the war started without a strategic reserve.

"At this point, I can assert, looking back 30 years after the battle took place, that we were doomed to lose before a single shot was fired. It was not the best time for Egypt to fight, and the situation was aggravated by the total discord between the political and military leaderships. The military leadership had separated itself from the constitutional organisation of the state, a situation which can lead to nothing but failure. The proof is that the battle was fought by one side only, Israel.

A staggering 75 per cent of Egypt's ground forces did not even see the enemy, let alone engage in combat. The death toll among the Egyptian forces was only 10,000 men: 1,000 died in confrontations in Rafah and Gaza, and 9,000 were victims of the 'wrong and arbitrary decision of one man'.

"On the evening of 6 June, hardly 24 hours after the beginning of the war, Amer ordered the forces to withdraw to the west bank of the Canal, and to leave their weapons behind. He repeated the same order on 7 June, and it wreaked havoc. A stampede took place in the narrow mountain passes. Thousands found their death there.
"Why did Amer not consult anyone before giving this order?

There is some background to the story. Before the war, Amer had issued Presidential Decree 118, merging the post of chief of staff of the armed forces into a new administration, to be named the Supreme Armed Forces Command. But this new body was established on paper only, without terms of reference, so that, as chief of staff of the armed forces, I was not assigned any field operation in the 1967 battle. My functions were transferred to the commander of the ground forces, and I, like all the rest of the able commanders, became nothing but onlookers. The reason, obviously, is that I had been selected originally by Nasser, not Amer.

"Despite the debacle of the sixth, it is impossible to say exactly when the war ended. On 10 June, the decision for a cease-fire on the Arab front was issued, yet the Ras El-Esh battle was fought on 1 July, by the very forces which had withdrawn, carrying the weapons which had not been used in June. This situation reminds me of the two decisions calling for a cease-fire issued in the 1948 war: one was to last a month and the second 20 days. Yet the fighting never stopped. The truth is that naval battles raged on after 5 June. On 5 June 1967, Israel was far from scoring a decisive victory.

"Egyptians did not consider themselves to have fought a war and lost it; the term defeat did not seem to apply. To be defeated implies the conquest of territory, the collapse of the regime, but this did not occur in June 1967. In fact, the people's overwhelming rejection of Nasser's resignation on 9 and 10 June is proof that the regime had not collapsed in the least. The June experience was therefore referred to as the 'setback'.

"After the war, the people started to play an active role in the affairs of their country and to speak their minds. A new strategy was adoped, not for the defence of the land, but for its liberation. Liberation was a national cause defined in the resolutions of the Khartoum Summit held on 27 September 1967.
"It was time to change the leadership and to break free from the shackles of a divided command. The armed forces were to experience reform, and new scientific techniques were introduced to upgrade performance.

"From there, we fought the War of Attrition, then the October War, and we were victorious."

© Copyright Al-Ahram Weekly. All rights reserved

Source:
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/archives/67-97/sup8.htm
---------------------

My Conclusions:

As we can deduce from the above narrative, Israel had pre-planned to attack Egypt (and other Arab nations) in 1967.

The Israeli assertion that the Arabs had planned all along to attack it, and that the war was forced upon it, is a complete fabrication.

The reasons that Egypt did not start the war, are:

1. After the Israeli aggression against Egypt in 1956, it immediately formulated Operation "Zion," in order to prepare for its next act of aggression.

2. The U.S. & Israel colluded into maneuvering & provoking Egypt into closing the waterway.

3. The U.S. aided Israel in neutralizing Egypt's military capabilities, through intelligence gathering, reconnaissance of Egyptian troop deployments, Jamming Egyptian communications, and the United States' Sixth Fleet was positioned to defend Israel.

That implies that the U.S. & Israel had instituted prior preparations of the battle plan, and that these acts didn't occur on the spur of the moment.

4. The Israeli commander of the Southern Zone, admitted that Israel prepared Operation "Zion" after the 1956 war of aggression against Egypt, and that they had trained for it for 10 years.

5. Egypt did not put any significant effort into preparing troops nor equipment for war.

6. 70,000 Egyptian troops were sent to Yemen. Why send troops 2,600 nautical miles to the South, when your enemy is a few hundred miles away, to your East, and has attacked you before?

7. Egypt at the time, focused on the Southern axis (Yemen), and not the North (Israel).

8. The Egyptian troops who were sent to Yemen had experience in Guerrilla/Mountain Warfare, and were rushed into the Sinai with little training nor experience in Desert Warfare.

They had experience in confronting rebels & guerrillas, and not adequately trained to confront a highly-trained military, employing Western military doctrine.

9. There was no communication between the upper echelon of military commanders, nor between the military and their political masters. There was complete disarray in the government.

It is extremely hard to envision how they could have guided and managed any successful military operations.
 
Zman, have you gotten to responding to my post? I would love to hear youe explanations because I have written a few pages of more questions I would have for any of the conspiracy theorists who believe Israel started the six day war but I do not want to overwhelm you when my first post was never answered.

Peace.
 
Zman, have you gotten to responding to my post? I would love to hear youe explanations because I have written a few pages of more questions I would have for any of the conspiracy theorists who believe Israel started the six day war but I do not want to overwhelm you when my first post was never answered.

Peace.

Peace rav,

I haven't forgotten about you, bro. Sorry for this extreme delay...
 
yes the population of jews in iran is going down now, but does that mean it cant go back up? 70,000 jews is not an extremly high number at all.

ahh, there's a baby boom going on amongst Jews (or so it seems.) it's been said that the Jewish population in New York is skyrocketting, because the Chassidic Jews have like 8 kids! it says that some neihborhoods are beginning to look like 18th century ghettos! lol

i can imagine that 1.the Jews in iran will move to Israel (hopefully) or 2. they will hopefully have more kids, and the population will increase!
 
I have written a few pages of more questions I would have for any of the conspiracy theorists who believe Israel started the six day war

Peace.

Peace rav,

Quick question, how is what I provided considered a "conspiracy theory," since many of the statements (issued by Israeli's and some generals), prove that Israel planned for the 67 war, 10 years in advance and that Israel provoked the Arabs in order to Justify attacking them?
 
Off course it did! do they deny it? lol

They won (i use the term loosely) and started the illegal occupation :)
 

Peace rav,

Quick question, how is what I provided considered a "conspiracy theory," since many of the statements (issued by Israeli's and some generals), prove that Israel planned for the 67 war, 10 years in advance and that Israel provoked the Arabs in order to Justify attacking them?

You have many statements, that is not the problem. The problem is that some of the statements by the generals are taken out of context, especially when translated into english, and sources can be found for things like we have a "flat earth" or "America plotted 9/11". It still remains a conspiracy theory. In no way I could believe your claim because Israel was literally "freaking out" about the Arab nations attacking. I doubt they would have ever wanted to start a war, and the signs and evidence proves my side, except for select articles with "testimony". The result is that every time Arab nations attacked Israel, they lost more land.

You may truly believe that Israel began the six day war, but I must disagree. The facts in reality speak for itself. The testimony, the paperwork of the Arab nations.

In May of 1967, Nasser expelled UN peacekeepers from the Sinai peninsula and announced a blockade of the Straits of Tiran to Israel-bound shipping. The blockade sealed off the major Israeli port of Eilat and violated the armistice agreements that had followed the 1956 Sinai war. It was regarded by most observers as a casus belli, i.e. an act of war.

On May 13, 1967, the Soviet Union relayed false information to Syria and Egypt that Israeli forces were massing on Syria's border. This prompted Syria and Egypt to activate their military pact and figured in Nasser's subsequent steps towards war. Syrian planes bombed northern Israel on June 5, the first day of the war. The following day, Syrian forces attacked the Israeli communities of Tel Dan, Kibbutz Shaar Yashuv and Ashmura but were repelled by Israeli forces. The Syrian air force unsuccessfully attempted to bomb oil refineries in Haifa. Israeli forces counter-attacked on July 9 and 10, driving the Syrians from the Golan Heights and bringing the Six Day War to a close.
 
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OK Sami you wanted a response to this rant that is equivalent to a 2 year screaming in a supermarket for a new toy, then here you go. (although it is hard to respond to a pointless and opinionated post that has not one ounce of fact, but since my logic is superior to yours I will entertain the invitation)


yes arab people did feel they restored their honor with the war of 73, they now felt they made up for the 6 day war defeat and that was that.

Then these people you speak of are as dumb as you are since they gained nothing, attacked like cowards on a holiday, and suffered heavy losses and the Egytians severed ties with their former soviet pals as a result. WOW their honor was really restored!! (do you even have a clue of what you are talking about?)

as for god being on their side in the 6 day war, so have christians and jews won EVERY war and battle they have been in? no they havent, so therefore if you lose one war ah yes this then means god is never on your side and is actually against you, wow i guess god pretty much hates the jews then according to your logic since he let hitler literally wipe the floor with them. not only that, i guess god must also really hate western nations since he let you kill hundred of thousands of each other combined during ww1 and ww2.
Now here is your pathetic and repulsive set of comments, allow me to refute them. BY your logic, then God hates every religion on Earth, because every religion has been defeated when it has gone to war throughout history at some time or another. Lets look at nations though, rather than religions, since most of the time it is a nation or empire that goes to war rather than an actual religion anymore. Take the US for example, we havent lost a war yet, God must love us, oh yeah and Israel hasnt lost either, God must really love them because they are surrounded by hate yet he allows them to exist. Oh now look at the Arab countries, Iraq, leader overthrown objective complete, Iraq is defeated, Afghan, overthrown, objective complete, Afghan is defeated, Syria defeated, Egypt defeated, Soviets defeated, etc. So who does God really hate according to you Sami? That is right Sami God hates the middle east, maybe that is why they are cursed to survive in an utter wasteland and their leaders be so corrupted by money that they crap on gold toilets while the people live in poverty....

Disclaimer: I do not actually believe that God played a role in the defeat of the nations. I believe they lost because a superior power to them allowed it to be that way

not only that i guess god has now changed sides because a 10000 israeli idf force couldnt beat a 2000 hezbollah force! the last war between the israelis and arabs was won by the arabs, all israel can boast about is destroying buildings and infastructure, but that means nothing as buildings and infastructure can be rebuilt, however so losing moral among your soldiers and getting generals resigning and even admiting the war wasnt won is a very hard thing to recover from.
Funny thing too, because I havent heard Hezbullcrap firing rockets into Israel since, I guess since they got their rearends blown out of holes they decided it would be better to stay out of Israels way, it seems their integrity must have been damaged along with the innocent civilians they put in harms way. As for a loss, I suppose that getting those two soldiers back was a loss, but who felt the worst of it, I can say it wasnt the Israelis, they have two soldiers missing, how many family members and hezbollah soldiers are missing now... It is easy to declare victory when you are a organization that no one knows your numbers, headquarters, etc. it is a completely cowardly way to fight

israel no longer feels that superiority they once had thanks to the lebanon war, this is why their looking for another war to heal their wounds and damaged morals, but too bad this aint the 40's and 50's and 60's no more because in todays present day israel has no chance of destroying and completly beating the arabs like before, unless they would use a nuke which would not only wipe us out, but themselves included hence lol we still win as we go to heaven and them to hell and israel is wiped of the map! :)

Really they dont have superiority huh? This is yet another dumb comment of yours since they still have their land and continue to take more as they feel necessary to drive the palestinian militants back. Also you will notice that the once arrogant arab nations surrounding them making no aggressive moves, because they know better now that they have had their tails wiped around the room. Israel has no need to nuke them as they have already established their SUPERIORITY to them. So their you go Sami, their are your rebuttals to your totally repulsive disgusting hate mongering post.


disclaimer: I have no problems with Arab countries or their people or any group of people for that matter. The purpose of this post was to respond the the ignorant and arrogant Sami and prove that his post is flawed and utterly stupid. If I offended anyone I apologize
 

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