Marriage for the homosexual

[Paul Williams]

though I take Abdul Fattah's point with full seriousness, I still appreciate Panther's sense of humour :giggling:

 

[جوري]

Oh man, how did this thread slip by the notice of LI's resident lesbian?

My gaydar should have homed into this topic quicker than a Googlebot, oy. Loosing my touch.

Anyway. Telling you how I really feel will just dissolve into a flamewar about me being a dirty sinner, but yeah. Don't get married to a woman, it'll be the worst decision of your life.

We are all sinners, some sins are more cardinal than others...
and before we get into Genes and Psychology, as much biology and medicine as I have done, I can't understand or relate on any level as to what it means to be a homosexual.
I haven't read any scientific articles on the so-called "Gay-Gene" but am familiar with one article that has made an attempt to find commonalities between homosexuals. The numbers weren't convincing... if you are familiar with such things as p value relative risk and odds ratio, which contribute to outcome, You'd have concluded the same ( that is if the observer to begin with had no bias)-- It is nothing more than psychological deviance!.. With that said--
(Pleasure/lust) and love to me are separate entities. Certainly lusting if one of the instincts of the lower self. However love can be expressed through many meaningful ways.. I certainly love my girlfriends but don't see why enjoying a cup of tea or coffee and nice conversation on a lazy afternoon, isn't a sufficient form of expressing my feelings?-- I digress and will say this much with conviction, some claim that there is a Gene that predisposes some to alcoholism, ( can't say the same for homosexuality), but as any former Alcoholic will tell you" just don't touch the bottle" and the cravings are bound to dissolve, they do it by taking it one day at a time, and in time they lead a more fulfilling less destructive life styles--perhaps in time our bros. here will find a woman to fulfil all his needs insha'Allah-- but I don't believe that actively pursuing it, will solve his problems, I don't believe that to be true of even heterosexuals. It will happen when it is meant to be. When Allah wills it!

Good luck to you Panther!

peace!

 

[Panther]

Was waiting for you Purest, lol. Hi agaaaain!

We are all sinners, some sins are more cardinal than others...
and before we get into Genes and Psychology, as much biology and medicine as I have done, I can't understand or relate on any level as to what it means to be a homosexual.
I haven't read any scientific articles on the so-called "Gay-Gene" but am familiar with one article that has made an attempt to find commonalities between homosexuals. The numbers weren't convincing... if you are familiar with such things as p value relative risk and odds ratio, which contribute to outcome, You'd have concluded the same ( that is if the observer to begin with had no bias)-- It is nothing more than psychological deviance!.. With that said--

Yeah, neither have I. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure the theory of the "gay gene" isn't just a load of tosh. From an evolutionary standpoint, being geneticaly predisposed toward homosexuality makes zero sense whatsoever. If this gene existed, it would either have died out aeons ago or would now be extremely rare. So I'll gladly agree with you in that it is psycological, but whether it is "deviance" is a matter of opinion.

(Pleasure/lust) and love to me are separate entities. Certainly lusting if one of the instincts of the lower self. However love can be expressed through many meaningful ways.. I certainly love my girlfriends but don't see why enjoying a cup of tea or coffee and nice conversation on a lazy afternoon, isn't a sufficient form of expressing my feelings?-- I digress and will say this much with conviction, some claim that there is a Gene that predisposes some to alcoholism, ( can't say the same for homosexuality), but as any former Alcoholic will tell you" just don't touch the bottle" and the cravings are bound to dissolve, they do it by taking it one day at a time, and in time they lead a more fulfilling less destructive life styles--perhaps in time our bros. here will find a woman to fulfil all his needs insha'Allah-- but I don't believe that actively pursuing it, will solve his problems, I don't believe that to be true of even heterosexuals. It will happen when it is meant to be. When Allah wills it!

Good luck to you Panther!

peace!

You seem to make a common assumption about Homosexual people, that is that homosexuality is based purely on lust and a homosexual relationship cannot be built on love like a hetero pairing. This simply isn't true, and I'm telling you from first hand experiance.
I understand that it may be difficult for some heterosexuals to understand, but gay people can, and do fall in love.
And the love isn't any differant to the love between a man and a woman(yes, I've experiance that, too. Uh-oh! :X ) except that you have be more aware of your love and the threat it poses to the two of you in a society that doesn't quite understand, much less accept.
Being a homosexual isn't just a "craving". Don't you think that's a dehumanizing claim?
Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beingswho are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.

I believe you're right about pursuing a relationship - if a person goes out actively seeking a partner, they'll make themselves unhappy very quickly. Just live your life as normal and if it happens, it happens.

Peace~

 

[glo]

Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beings who are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.

I agree.

I am deeply troubled by the hatred, the condemnation and the ridicule homosexuals experience in our society. Not least of all from religious people. :-[

I have read articles about experiences by homosexuals which broke my heart ...

No doubt the topic of homosexuality - especially in a religious forum - is a bottomless pit! So I will leave my comments and my personal opinions at this.

I wish you peace.

 

[.:Umniyah:.]

And none the less I believe any one of us going into our personal thoughts and feelings would steer this topic...off.

I believe just about all the advice to be given has been gave, and i futher believe that the original poster has mad a deductive conclusion from all the advice/artiles/ and comments made.

So in the good interest of this thread. Can one of you Mods please close it.

 

[Malaikah]

I have to agree with you on this one Glo. The double standards really bother me. Fornicators are practically glorified yet homosexual are like out casts... and yet they are both very serious, major sins!

 

[Paul Williams]

Salam

although I have read much on this thread that is helpful, I for one (for what it is worth!) would be sad to see it close yet...

 

[sevgi]

I have to agree with you on this one Glo. The double standards really bother me. Fornicators are practically glorified yet homosexual are like out casts... and yet they are both very serious, major sins!

we must adhere to the fact that fornication goes against one religious law..but homosexuality encompaseses a wider range of sins including fornication.

as

 

[جوري]

Was waiting for you Purest, lol. Hi agaaaain!



Yeah, neither have I. In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure the theory of the "gay gene" isn't just a load of tosh. From an evolutionary standpoint, being geneticaly predisposed toward homosexuality makes zero sense whatsoever. If this gene existed, it would either have died out aeons ago or would now be extremely rare. So I'll gladly agree with you in that it is psycological, but whether it is "deviance" is a matter of opinion.



You seem to make a common assumption about Homosexual people, that is that homosexuality is based purely on lust and a homosexual relationship cannot be built on love like a hetero pairing. This simply isn't true, and I'm telling you from first hand experiance.
I understand that it may be difficult for some heterosexuals to understand, but gay people can, and do fall in love.
And the love isn't any differant to the love between a man and a woman(yes, I've experiance that, too. Uh-oh! :X ) except that you have be more aware of your love and the threat it poses to the two of you in a society that doesn't quite understand, much less accept.
Being a homosexual isn't just a "craving". Don't you think that's a dehumanizing claim?
Homosexuals aren't aliens. They're fellow human beingswho are capable of love, lust, hate, happiness, sorrow, and the whole spectrum of human emotion. Just like you and everyone you love and know.

I believe you're right about pursuing a relationship - if a person goes out actively seeking a partner, they'll make themselves unhappy very quickly. Just live your life as normal and if it happens, it happens.

Peace~

I am pressed for time today so I'll make it brief.
1- so glad you brought out the natural selection thing, because I find it amazing that most people who scream evolution are usually the ones who are so adamant about the "Gay-Genes" which so very true by natural selection would have been wiped out, on a very basic level, a Gay Gene would have dissolved some time ago... further the study I had read about the Gay gene being on the X chromosome is rather funny.. I can go into details of why, but this disorder would mostly affect males, while the females would be carriers, that is assuming it is an X recessive, which it obviously has to be (if it were) otherwise we'd be seeing it much more frequent than we are, but the article certainly didn't go into details on that. Females inactivate one of their X chromosomes by methylation (or other methods), and end up with a barr body something that can be seen in males with Kleinfelter's syndrome, anyhow on the long run it wouldn't explain lesbianism... with that said, I should also clear that I don't believe in a great number of the stories of evolution, unless we are talking about adaptation but not speciation, or natural selection because I got to tell you, there are many many trinucleotide repeats (such as Hunter's and Fragile X etc) that not only continue to survive but in fact get worst with each successive generation. And I am not sure how natural selection addresses that in any scientifically acceptable way?
I have already drawn my own conclusions to a point that is very satisfactory to me and some of my colleagues highly agree, some others are awaiting the gaps to be filled by science.. but where we are in science and where we will be still won't answer some of the most vital questions...
Anyhow-- I never demonized Gays and Lesbians, I have admitted that, I don't understand the psychology behind. I really don't/ can't, I feel on some level perhaps you just didn't meet with the right person? In my own mind I assume perhaps you'd like someone on the cusp not quite masculine, not quite feminine, I don't understand the stereotypical gays, but then again, all I see are stereotypical gays, why not just search for a mate that meets with those standards rather than something that obviously physically, and emotionally deviant. And it is deviant, I promise you, I have read some of the best literature by doctors from John's Hopkins who have dedicated a great deal of their time to this, I am personally just trying to understand this from a humanistic level.. Homosexuality was in the DSM-IV the diagnostic and statistical Manual of mental disorders up to the year 1973, with heavy lobbying it made it out of that book, but at some point it was no different than necrophilia for example...
I don't see why you couldn't love your friends men or women without having a very deviant sexual relationship with them? Sex isn't love, it isn't, Sex can be an act of expressing deep love, but it isn't the only way deep love can be expressed. The only way I can assimilate this to you, is undoubtedly you feel deep love and affection for your family and siblings, but don't fornicate with them, the thought perhaps makes you sick? that is how homosexuality is viewed by many of us.. the thought of two grown middle aged men engaging in a sacred act meant to be for man and woman, is really nothing short of sickening.
It is in no way demonizing you, or saying you are incapable of love or feelings. we are all capable of such emotions, but how we choose to act on them is really what matters.
I am not here by any means to change your mind about anything, Perhaps in a way I am trying to understand you better, and I understand that you are all as varied as can be!
peace!

 

[Muslim Knight]

Found a blog entry pertaining about being a Muslim and gay at the same time (which is a no-no).

HERE