But why Islam?

[NoName55]

atheism is not only ridiculous to me but abhorrent too, but I dare not put it in to many words as I fear The Word Police will jump on me, to whom using certain words, on this site, is more reprehensible than promotion of filth and all the isms, as long as you sugarcoat it, you are free to post/promote any rubbish.

 

[Draco]

The ones who stay are usually the ones that feel like Allah(swt) found them at a time they did not feel any need to look for him. Most Muslim reverts did not seek to become Muslim or at least did not realize they were seeking. Very few reverts have ever been approached by a Muslim asking them to accept Islam. Many reverts actually have little knowledge about Islam, but oddly and for no apparent reason, they get an insatiable urge to learn all they can about Islam. They revert when they discover, becoming Muslim is not going to be an instant cure for anything, But, there is such a powerful desire to say the shahadah and live as a Muslim. There is no tangible reason why any person would revert to Islam. Yet, people who have never even seen the Qur'an are seeking to learn how to become Muslim. <snip>

Perhaps that is your experience Woodrow and I've no doubt that others feel the same way. But just as you describe many that "feel a powerful desire" to become Muslim or "get an insatiable urge to learn all they can about Islam" there are many more that do not experience any such emotions - or if they do - it's towards another religion. Substitute the words “Islam” for “Christianity” and “Muslim” for ”Christian” and your own words could quite easily have been spoken by a devout Christian. I’m sure given your experience with a variety of religions Woodrow that you would have heard this kind of emotive reasoning many times before in different religious contexts. For me it doesn’t provide a satisfactory answer the question: why Islam?

 

[Intisar]

I don't think it does answer my question, maybe you could clarify. For a start, why is atheism ridiculous to you?

Not believing that there is a superior being is ridiculous to me. Whenever I read the Quran it reinforces the idea that there is a superior being who made each and everyone of us -- who was selfless and doesn't get anything out of breathing life into us. If you read the Quran, it refutes all of the disputes about whether there is a God. That's why I think atheism is ridiculous. Because atheists don't believe that there is a God.

 

[Draco]

Not believing that there is a superior being is ridiculous to me. Whenever I read the Quran it reinforces the idea that there is a superior being who made each and everyone of us -- who was selfless and doesn't get anything out of breathing life into us. <snip>

Sister-Ameena, isn’t it obvious that reading a book (like the Quran) that proclaims the existence of God is bound to reinforce it for you? Have you ever tried reading a book that refutes the existence of God? If so, which ones? And if not, why not?

 

[جوري]

I'll start with the process of elimination-- instead of why-- (the why not)!
Atheism:
TO ME, is sterile, uni-dimensional having no depth or scope, its moral compass oscillates to the tides (if at all)--its value being measured wholly in terms of its truth-- but therein lies no 'truth' .. as it offers no explanation in part or as a whole to the stately splendor of the universe and all that dwells in it.
Its representatives for the most part are offensive to the mind and injurious to the soul-- that most refined non-palpable element that defines humanity; and they are generally unrestricted by the reservations that would hold others at bay. Its matter-of-fact is non-demonstrable save for the decorative words its members use under the pretext of humanism while treating condescendingly those who subscribe to faith as of is as if they were unlearned pariahs. The irony is they don't realize how flat and blunted they are in the process!

this is first part in series of why nots.. to be continued....

 

[Woodrow]

Perhaps that is your experience Woodrow and I've no doubt that others feel the same way. But just as you describe many that "feel a powerful desire" to become Muslim or "get an insatiable urge to learn all they can about Islam" there are many more that do not experience any such emotions - or if they do - it's towards another religion. Substitute the words “Islam” for “Christianity” and “Muslim” for ”Christian” and your own words could quite easily have been spoken by a devout Christian. I’m sure given your experience with a variety of religions Woodrow that you would have heard this kind of emotive reasoning many times before in different religious contexts. For me it doesn’t provide a satisfactory answer the question: why Islam?

Your key words:

For me it doesn’t provide a satisfactory answer the question: why Islam?

For me the satisfactory answer to Why Islam is very simple. based on my somewhat limited knowledge, I do not see any way possible for a Human to have composed the Qur'an. Arabic is not a very musical language, spoken Arabic sounds sort of like a camel trying to cough up a hair ball. Yet Arabic singing and poetry is beautiful sounding, but to get the sounds and tones the songs and poems have no logical meaning. the Qur'an is both consistently Beautiful in the sounds and at the same time carries a very clear message. To my concept of linguistics this would be the equivalent of writing the US Constitution in a poetic manner and set to the tune of Beethoven's fifth.

To add to that I have seen ample evidence that many things that could not have been known to Muhammad(PBUH) are said in the Qur'an and it is only recently have these things even been seen by man,.

I am convinced that the Qur'an was not written by man. Since the Qur'an itself says it was written by Allah(swt) I can accept that as fact because to me that is the only logical explanation.

For me that is a satisfactory reason why it is Islam.

 

[NYCmuslim]

There are many athiests and non-religous scientists that have reverted to Islam for the simple fact they were able to find scientific facts in the verses of the Quran that were later affirmed by man only until recent years (by "recent" I mean within the past 200-300 years. The Quran was revelead more than 1400 years ago). Everything from the description of the human embryo (there were no microscopes back then), to the interaction of salt and fresh water, to the function of mountains, creation of the universe (theres actually a verse in the Quran that says the universe is expanding), the light of the moon, as well as other things. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate, he could not read or write, and therefore couldn't have discovered these things on his own, which in turn proves that he didn't write the Quran.

Some non-human Being must have known these facts and revealed it to us. That same Being must have created the universe and therefore knew everything about it. We call this being Allah (God).

Peace be to you all :ws:

 

[Md Mashud]

You see, Islam believe, in Moses, Jesus etc. Christianity has left Prophet Muhammad :saw: as a liar/fake, Judaism has left both Jesus :ra: and our Prophet :saw: as liar/fake.

But when you study Muhammad :saw, their is no way I could justify him being fake while Jesus/Moses being true. He was the best of the best of people.

When I studied religion, and history of religion - you see how it works. Messages have been past down by 124k prophet/messengers - its same message in fundamental (1 god) - the final one being our prophet :saw:. Id be christian if I was not convinced that Prophet :saw: was not a real prophet and that his revelations were not the full truth.

Studying Bible/Torah/Quran could also enlighten people.

Atheists I find generally to find each religion to be of equal weight. But I wonder how many people would feel same way if they had studied Hinduism/Judaism/Christianity/Islam - and what they have to say about religion/past and present.

 

[MustafaMc]

For me it doesn’t provide a satisfactory answer the question: why Islam?

Perhaps there is no reason that will prove satisfactory to your mind. The reasons for choosing Islam are personal for each one of us Muslims. Is there really one single "right" answer?

As I have stated earlier: My reason for choosing Islam has more to do with my perception that Islam

1) teaches the proper beliefs about God. Whether you like it or not, I choose to believe in Allah (swt) as the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. At one time I believed the Christian concept of Trinity - even though I could not explain it. Today I believe in Allah, but still admit that He is beyond my ability to understand.

2) that it is the Will of my Creator for how to live my life - one aspect of which is how to properly worship Him. There was a time when I was searching for meaning to my life. Although I did not choose Islam because it gave my life meaning, I have since learned that the purpose for our lives is to worship Allah. For me worshiping Allah is in the continual struggle to submit my personal will and animalistic urges to the Will of Allah as delineated by the Quran and the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saaws).

3) that it is the only means to gain Paradise and to avoid Hellfire. I have to admit that a primary motivator for me to choose Islam is my belief in the Hereafter with eternal punishment or reward. I believe that Islam provides the roadmap for how to walk "the staight and narrow" way that leads to Paradise.

 

[snakelegs]

I must admit myself that from time to time, particularly in times of great trouble or strife, I'm tempted to pray for help out of the situation. But isn’t it just all too convenient to turn to someone (or something) that seemingly offers light at the end of the tunnel? I’ve observed that religion is often happy to step in when people are at their most needy and vulnerable, which has always made me suspicious of it. As you said Amille, you were looking for something, and if you’re looking for something badly enough you’re sure to find something.

there is something to be said for prayer. you reach the point where you accept that something is beyond your control. the power lies in surrendering by turning it over to god. there is strength in vulnerability.
any muslim would know this - there is strength in the ability to submit and islam is submission.
some people feel a need for religion in order to do this and some do not.
but prayer is not weakness.
anyway, that's my take on it.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i honestly never saw the need to consider alternatives, i was raised as a muslim and it both felt right and made sense. I feel its given me strength and taught me much.

Islam just feels like the natural way, like the way we're meant to pass this life...

 

[------]

:salamext:

Islaam...it just feels... RIGHT. Everything makes sense

 

[Draco]

Your key words:
For me the satisfactory answer to Why Islam is very simple. based on my somewhat limited knowledge, I do not see any way possible for a Human to have composed the Qur'an. <snip>

To add to that I have seen ample evidence that many things that could not have been known to Muhammad(PBUH) are said in the Qur'an and it is only recently have these things even been seen by man,.

I am convinced that the Qur'an was not written by man. Since the Qur'an itself says it was written by Allah(swt) I can accept that as fact because to me that is the only logical explanation.

There are many athiests and non-religous scientists that have reverted to Islam for the simple fact they were able to find scientific facts in the verses of the Quran that were later affirmed by man only until recent years (by "recent" I mean within the past 200-300 years. The Quran was revelead more than 1400 years ago). Everything from the description of the human embryo (there were no microscopes back then), to the interaction of salt and fresh water, to the function of mountains, creation of the universe (theres actually a verse in the Quran that says the universe is expanding), the light of the moon, as well as other things. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was illiterate, he could not read or write, and therefore couldn't have discovered these things on his own, which in turn proves that he didn't write the Quran.

Many of my Muslim friends have spoken of the scientific accuracy of the Qur'an and even it's predictive accuracy (given the time of it's writing). I always feel this is rather shaky ground for the Quran. I think if we are all honest, we realise that modern science is incredibly powerful and will always have the upper hand when it comes to explaining the world we live in. I’ve read many posts where Islam (and other religions) attempt to take on science head on. The debates usually go round in circles with the religious either claiming scientific processes as the work of God or being forced to directly disagree with strong scientific theories.

What fascinates me is how otherwise intelligent and rational people (as I presume most in this forum are) refuse to question the authenticity of the Quran in the light of such strong scientific evidence to the contrary. Remember that science does not exist purely to refute religious claims. It’s there (hopefully) so that we can all benefit from its advances. Our scientific expertise is something we can all be interested in, contribute to and indeed be proud of. However if it happens to go against what scripture says – which we know it does at times - then shouldn’t we start scrutinising the scripture?

 

[Woodrow]

Many of my Muslim friends have spoken of the scientific accuracy of the Qur'an and even it's predictive accuracy (given the time of it's writing). I always feel this is rather shaky ground for the Quran. I think if we are all honest, we realise that modern science is incredibly powerful and will always have the upper hand when it comes to explaining the world we live in. I’ve read many posts where Islam (and other religions) attempt to take on science head on. The debates usually go round in circles with the religious either claiming scientific processes as the work of God or being forced to directly disagree with strong scientific theories.

Truth is Truth. It makes no difference as to what proves it. Truth will be verified as truth, provided it is truth and the measurement tools have the ability to measure it. Scientific methods do not explain the whys they only explain the how. Religion is not interested in the how it is interested in the why. It is not that they clash with each other, just two different topics.

What fascinates me is how otherwise intelligent and rational people (as I presume most in this forum are) refuse to question the authenticity of the Quran in the light of such strong scientific evidence to the contrary. Remember that science does not exist purely to refute religious claims. It’s there (hopefully) so that we can all benefit from its advances. Our scientific expertise is something we can all be interested in, contribute to and indeed be proud of. However if it happens to go against what scripture says – which we know it does at times - then shouldn’t we start scrutinising the scripture?

Makes as much sense as saying we should agree about the chemical make up of the paint when I don't care how the paint is made as long as I know it is white paint in the can. we err when we fail to see that science and religion are not the same and serve different purpose.

Quite simply if it is truth it will hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Draco]

<snip> Scientific methods do not explain the whys they only explain the how. Religion is not interested in the how it is interested in the why. It is not that they clash with each other, just two different topics.

...we err when we fail to see that science and religion are not the same and serve different purpose.

I disagree here Woodrow. Science does explain the whys. It does a fantastic job of explaining the world we live in today and, importantly, how we came to exist.

Understanding the process of how we as humans and all other life around us came to be, explains very much why things are the way they are today and indeed why we are here.

Of course I’m talking about the process of evolution. It really is beautiful and elegant and has no need for the “hand of God” in order for it to proceed as it has been proceeding for billions of years. I realise that evolution as a scientific theory is a bone of contention on this forum but I wonder (without sounding condescending) whether people in this discussion have a true understanding of it? I say so only because once I fully understood evolution as a scientific concept* it was like an awakening, perhaps similar to the kind of experience many Muslims on this forum describe when they find Islam for the first time. The difference however, is that there is a wealth of evidence to back up the theory, which I feel is lacking in Islam and other religions. The theory doesn’t have to “feel right” or “seem natural”, the terms other posters have used when describing their conviction to Islam. It just lays out the evidence on the table and says ‘here it is! Look what we have discovered! See for yourself!’ What’s so appealing about that for me is that doesn’t require a belief in anything or require that leap of faith. Does you appreciate that point Woodrow (or anyone else)?

* It was not until quite recently that I actually did understand it. I always thought I had a notion of what it was and it’s a very familiar word but I don’t think I had fully grasped its merits.

 

[Draco]

there is something to be said for prayer. you reach the point where you accept that something is beyond your control. the power lies in surrendering by turning it over to god. there is strength in vulnerability.
any muslim would know this - there is strength in the ability to submit and islam is submission.
some people feel a need for religion in order to do this and some do not.
but prayer is not weakness.
anyway, that's my take on it.

I take it snakelegs that you are a deist - do you yourself pray? Why have you not subscribed to a particualr religion - say Islam for arguments sake?

 

[Woodrow]

I disagree here Woodrow. Science does explain the whys. It does a fantastic job of explaining the world we live in today and, importantly, how we came to exist.

Understanding the process of how we as humans and all other life around us came to be, explains very much why things are the way they are today and indeed why we are here.

Of course I’m talking about the process of evolution. It really is beautiful and elegant and has no need for the “hand of God” in order for it to proceed as it has been proceeding for billions of years. I realise that evolution as a scientific theory is a bone of contention on this forum but I wonder (without sounding condescending) whether people in this discussion have a true understanding of it? I say so only because once I fully understood evolution as a scientific concept* it was like an awakening, perhaps similar to the kind of experience many Muslims on this forum describe when they find Islam for the first time. The difference however, is that there is a wealth of evidence to back up the theory, which I feel is lacking in Islam and other religions. The theory doesn’t have to “feel right” or “seem natural”, the terms other posters have used when describing their conviction to Islam. It just lays out the evidence on the table and says ‘here it is! Look what we have discovered! See for yourself!’ What’s so appealing about that for me is that doesn’t require a belief in anything or require that leap of faith. Does you appreciate that point Woodrow (or anyone else)?

* It was not until quite recently that I actually did understand it. I always thought I had a notion of what it was and it’s a very familiar word but I don’t think I had fully grasped its merits.

Peace,

Reading this post I suspect that an existing problem is many deists and atheists have strong preconceived ideas about the other, and we end up arguing against what we perceive the other as believing.

Many of us deists begin with the assumption that an atheist has absolutely no belief in any thing. And that an atheist belives every thing exists without a cause or direction.

That is an error

Many atheists seem to think that deists believe science is false and that deists believe science is the religion of atheists. Some atheists seem to believe that deists are anti-science and deists believe that the religious books alone can explain everything in the universe.

That is also an error.

I am very much an evolutionist. I know evolution is a fact. The simple hybridization of todays food crops and domestic animals is sufficient to show that in even recent times. Todays farm animals and crops have very little resemblance to the crops of only 200 years ago. They were changed. We know how and why they changed. I am pretty much in agreement with the concept of "Ontogeny recapitulates Phylogeny" This does not prevent me in believing that a creator is the source and that all natural events are a part of His(swt) creation.

The various theories and facts of the formation of the universe really do not say anything that denies the existence of a God(swt) I see nothing in error with the "Big Bang" theory. To me that is a valid explanation of what it would look like when in a fraction of a second a single thought of God(swt) suddenly became solid matter.

Now to the why. Why is a very big word and full of many connotations. All why questions result in another why question. Why does a dead bird fall from the sky? Because of gravity. Why is there gravity? Because it is a natural state of the space-time continuum. Why is it a natural state of the natural space-time continuum? ad infinitum ad nauseum

To me the only answer to the ultimate and final why is "Because that is how Allah(swt) created it." Why do I believe a Deity created the universe? Because if it were a spontaneous event new matter should be popping up like popcorn all over the place. I do not see any evidence that there is any matter that is either newer or older then any other bit of matter we can detect.

The question should be why doesn't matter spontaneously form more often, if it does not have a deliberate cause?

Now to paraphrase you:

Look at what the belief in a God(swt) means:

It just lays out the evidence on the table and says ‘here it is! Look what I have created! See for yourself!’ What’s so appealing about that for me is that doesn’t require an explanation in anything or require further justification. Do you appreciate that point Dorca?

 

[Draco]

Peace,

Reading this post I suspect that an existing problem is many deists and atheists have strong preconceived ideas about the other, and we end up arguing against what we perceive the other as believing.

Many of us deists begin with the assumption that an atheist has absolutely no belief in any thing. And that an atheist belives every thing exists without a cause or direction.

That is an error

Many atheists seem to think that deists believe science is false and that deists believe science is the religion of atheists. Some atheists seem to believe that deists are anti-science and deists believe that the religious books alone can explain everything in the universe.

That is also an error.

Agreed Woodrow.

I am very much an evolutionist. I know evolution is a fact. The simple hybridization of todays food crops and domestic animals is sufficient to show that in even recent times. Todays farm animals and crops have very little resemblance to the crops of only 200 years ago. They were changed. We know how and why they changed. I am pretty much in agreement with the concept of "Ontogeny recapitulates Phylogeny" This does not prevent me in believing that a creator is the source and that all natural events are a part of His(swt) creation.

The various theories and facts of the formation of the universe really do not say anything that denies the existence of a God(swt) I see nothing in error with the "Big Bang" theory. To me that is a valid explanation of what it would look like when in a fraction of a second a single thought of God(swt) suddenly became solid matter.

Correct me if I'm wrong Woodrow, but doesn't some of the Quran's teaching about the earth and the universe very much contradict what modern science has discovered. I don't want to get into the specifics because there are numerous sites pitching science against religious scripture, but I'm sure we could have a lengthy debate about certain Quran passages that are innacurate or simply not true given what science has revealed to us about the universe so far. You seem to have reconciled the two in your own head but I fail to see how you've been able to do this. They cannot both be correct!

Now to the why. Why is a very big word and full of many connotations. All why questions result in another why question. Why does a dead bird fall from the sky? Because of gravity. Why is there gravity? Because it is a natural state of the space-time continuum. Why is it a natural state of the natural space-time continuum? ad infinitum ad nauseum

To me the only answer to the ultimate and final why is "Because that is how Allah(swt) created it." Why do I believe a Deity created the universe? Because if it were a spontaneous event new matter should be popping up like popcorn all over the place. I do not see any evidence that there is any matter that is either newer or older then any other bit of matter we can detect.

I think you fail to ask one more why question: why does Allah exist. Or who created him? Or why, even if he existed, would he go to the trouble of creating us? Or why, even if he did create us, would he want us to live our lives in a certain way? etc.

My point is that the God hypothesis raises many more why and how questions, arguably more than we currently have right now. What are the answers to these question? And as men of science Woodrow, aren't we supposed to be seeking the simplest answer, not an answer that poses even more questions than it solves?

 

[snakelegs]

I take it snakelegs that you are a deist - do you yourself pray? Why have you not subscribed to a particualr religion - say Islam for arguments sake?

yes i do pray. i've been an agnostic all my life and i wasn't raised in any religion. i never used to concern myself one way or the other with whether god existed or not. over the past 9 years i have come to believe in god.
i don't feel a need for a religion to worship god.
basically, i don't like religion very much and think it tends to get in the way.
i believe that god is beyond religion and that no religion can claim a monopoly on god.

 

[Woodrow]

Agreed Woodrow.



Correct me if I'm wrong Woodrow, but doesn't some of the Quran's teaching about the earth and the universe very much contradict what modern science has discovered. I don't want to get into the specifics because there are numerous sites pitching science against religious scripture, but I'm sure we could have a lengthy debate about certain Quran passages that are innacurate or simply not true given what science has revealed to us about the universe so far. You seem to have reconciled the two in your own head but I fail to see how you've been able to do this. They cannot both be correct!

Perhaps you are aware of places where it does. I have yet to find anything in the Qur'an that contradicts verified modern science. I see no conflict of what modern science has proven, with any Qur'anic writings.

If you can think of some specific areas, it would be a good topic of debate. But, this section is not for debate. The Comparative Religion section will reopen soon enough.

I think you fail to ask one more why question: why does Allah exist. Or who created him? Or why, even if he existed, would he go to the trouble of creating us? Or why, even if he did create us, would he want us to live our lives in a certain way? etc.

The question of why does God(swt) exist is well beyond my ability to comprehend. The only way I can fathom God(swt) could exist would be as a divine being with no beginning and no end. A being that transcends our physical world and beyond the limits of time or space. Why he would create us and want us to live our lives in a specific manner? Good question. He has no need of us. Yet, he has planned a universe that includes us.

My point is that the God hypothesis raises many more why and how questions, arguably more than we currently have right now. What are the answers to these question? And as men of science Woodrow, aren't we supposed to be seeking the simplest answer, not an answer that poses even more questions than it solves?

True and as you paraphrased Dr. Einstein, The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. What can be simpler than saying it was all created in accordance with a divine creator?