15 Year Old Child Soldier Held in Guantanamo

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its not just about him - tho some prevoious posts suggest that he was beaten severly several times and lost an eye - inshallah the sister can confirm that with a source

His dad was killed, his brother was paralyzed and the young innocent was throwing fragmentation grenades about. He allegedly killed an American soldier. Do you think it is possible his eye might have been injured in the fight? ....Naaah




at the risk of agrreing with osama bin laden, i think he summed up the muslim anger at the US quite well

it was US intervention/occupation in muslim lands
US support for Israel
US support form corrupt regimes in the Mid-East
US troops in the holy land

in my opinion all legitimate concerns

Exactly which Muslim land was "occupied" by the US before 9-11....the NATO mission to protect the Bosnian Muslims and the Muslims of Kosovo perhaps???

Support for Israel isn't going away so it looks liek you guys will have to get used to it or we are all going to have to kill each other.

Egypt is corrupt..it is only supported to stop Arabs and Jews from killing each other in large numbers again.

The House of Saud is not perfect either. OBL in charge would be worse for just about everyone in the world

Are there any US troops in Saudi anymore??? I dont think so. They wouldn't have been there at all if the Arab League had been able to solve the Iraq/Kuwait dispute.

The whole thing is stupid. If you want to get rid of Israel go ahead and try...just quit whining to us when they kick your ass again. Ditto the Saudis. Let OBL take it to them. They are big boys.

The whole thing is just stupid.
 
His dad was killed, his brother was paralyzed and the young innocent was throwing fragmentation grenades about. He allegedly killed an American soldier. Do you think it is possible his eye might have been injured in the fight? ....Naaah

do you think people in Guantanamo Bay are not tortured??? where do u live???
here is some an account of Abdurrahman Khadr (Omar Khadr's older brother) who talks about his experience in Guantnamo Bay:

He [Abdur Rahman] was taken to the Bagram airbase near Kabul where the Americans had built a processing center for suspected al-Qaeda captives. There he began what he calls the longest and most painful ordeal of his life. He says he had no idea what he was getting into.

"They took off my clothes and everything. And they started taking pictures of me. Pictures, of my face and then pictures of my private parts, like my back, you know, my penis, taking pictures of every part of my body.

"They check your, your, you know, your anus. They put their fingers inside to check it out… All of that is a humiliation to any person. They put me in the orange suit and then they put me on the ground: hands, legs, everything cuffed and my face covered. I was kept on the ground, on the concrete with nothing but that orange suit for twenty-four hours.


Baghram
"I stayed in Baghram for ten days and then they took us, they showered us, they put us in new orange suits. The cuffed us up - hands, legs - to the stomach and they put us in a room. They had us sit cross-legged on our ass for eight to nine hours.

"You could not move. You could not move your back, so you couldn't bend or straighten out. If you moved they'd hit you or they'd push you. After that, they took us to the plane. They tied us up in the plane, cuffed us up and everything in the plane."

The trip to Cuba would last more than 15 hours. By the time the aircraft landed, Abdurahman says he was a broken man.

"There was points, you know, in my heart, I just wished to God that one of these MPs would go crazy and then shoot me. Just get up and shoot me. I was so depressed. I was so sick of anything. It was the only time in my life that I really wished for a bullet."
Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/alqaedafamily7.html

and here is a site where you can get info on Omar Khadr:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/omar-khadr.html

have you not seen the movie "Road to Guantanamo"; watch it, maybe you'll learn something
perhaps you can also watch some documentaries about the tortures in Guantanamo; CBC has some good ones

here is a lil something about the three men in the movie "Road to Guantanamo"
Three of the men later said they had been systematically abused while in Camp Delta. Their lawyers prepared a 115-page report based on their allegations that they were beaten, injected with drugs, deprived of sleep, hooded, and subjected to body cavity searches, and sexual and religious humiliations.
Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/guantanamo/
 
:rolleyes:
His dad was killed, his brother was paralyzed and the young innocent was throwing fragmentation grenades about. He allegedly killed an American soldier. Do you think it is possible his eye might have been injured in the fight? ....Naaah

why not wait to see if the sister can provide a source - why try to make up a story?



Exactly which Muslim land was "occupied" by the US before 9-11....the NATO mission to protect the Bosnian Muslims and the Muslims of Kosovo perhaps???

US troops on the holy lands was worse than an occupation to many - apart from that the US either killed muslims in or had troops in Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan - and after 9-11 apart form the obvious Afghanistan and Iraq, you can add dead muslims by US forces in Pakistan, once again in Somalia, Yemen.

Add to that the slaughter of Palestinians - a large percentage women and children - by US weapons and you being to understand why the US isnt the most loved goverment in the Muslim world.

Support for Israel isn't going away so it looks liek you guys will have to get used to it or we are all going to have to kill each other

well we better get used to unending war then because until israel ceases to exist as a state, i dont see this war ending.

Egypt is corrupt..it is only supported to stop Arabs and Jews from killing each other in large numbers again.

The House of Saud is not perfect either. OBL in charge would be worse for just about everyone in the world

i suppose democracy doesnt matter when you have your own poodle in power :nervous:

Are there any US troops in Saudi anymore??? I dont think so. They wouldn't have been there at all if the Arab League had been able to solve the Iraq/Kuwait dispute.

unfortunatly foryou al-qaeda see the us withdrawal after 9-11 as one of the successes of their attack

The whole thing is stupid. If you want to get rid of Israel go ahead and try...just quit whining to us when they kick your ass again. Ditto the Saudis. Let OBL take it to them. They are big boys.

i agree if arab nationalists try to take on israel - like they have tried before - they most likely will get their backsides kicked and probably deserve it too , not much worse than an arab nationalist
 
I thought you were refering to the ones that work for the russian government. Sorry.

well not everyone that works for the pro-moscow goverment is bad

but in general i am refering to the chechen goverment - unfortunately the two people you mentioned were not in the goverment - shamil basayev was until he got kicked out
 
His dad was killed, his brother was paralyzed and the young innocent was throwing fragmentation grenades about. He allegedly killed an American soldier. Do you think it is possible his eye might have been injured in the fight? ....Naaah

his left eye was injured during the fight but becuase it was not treated in Guantanamo Bay, he lost his left eye sight; his right eye has been blurred in Guantanamo Bay and according to this article and i believe other sources that i have read or heard, he has also been shot in Guantanamo

here are some of the other tortures that he is experiencing:
Reported abuses to which Khadr has been subjected include:
1. not informed of his rights;
2. forced to provide involuntary statements;
3. short shackled -- wrists and ankles handcuffed together and the cuffs bolted to the floor;
4. forced to sit, during interrogation, on an extremely cold floor;
5. kept in isolation for a month at ‘refrigerator’ temperatures, (referred to in Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld’s memo as ‘manipulation of the environment’10;
6. his body dragged back and forth, while short shackled, through the urine so as to clean the floor with his body;
7. forced to perform painful exercises while short shackled;
8. repeatedly lifted and dropped while short shackled as a punishment for ‘poor performance’;
9. threatened with forced nakedness;
10. threatened with sexual violence;
11. forced to urinate on himself while in stress positions;
12. refused the opportunity to say prayers;
13. detained illegally and illegally held incommunicado, except for the November 2004 visit from a lawyer;
14. held in a cell that is ‘freezing cold’ 24 hours a day that Khadr says is causing shortness of breath and the sensation of not being able to get enough oxygen; and
15. kept in solitary confinement.
16. exposed to continuous electric light in his cell.
17. forced into stress positions for periods of hours, e.g., forced to lie on his stomach with his hands and feet cuffed together behind his back;
18. he has found partially dissolved tablets and/or powder at the bottom of a glass given him by his captors. He says the pills produce various effects -sleepiness, dizziness, alertness11.

Rhuhel Ahmed, previously imprisoned one cell away from Khadr’s cell recollects that Khadr was also denied medical attention
“…the same thing also, we are aware, happened to a young Canadian man, Omar Khadr, who was aged 17 when we left. He had been shot three times at point blank range and his lung punctured and had shrapnel in one eye and a cataract in the other. They would not operate on him. He was told that was because he would not cooperate. We were told one time when he was in isolation he was on the floor very badly ill. The guards called the medics and they said they couldn’t see him because the interrogators had refused to let them. We don’t know what happened to him (he had had some sort of operation when he was still in Afghanistan but he was in constant pain in Guantánamo and still undoubtedly is, and they would not give him pain killers.”12

Khadr suffers from depression, persistent body pain, loss of vision in his left eye, blurred vision in his right eye, shortness of breath, the sensation of being unable to get enough oxygen and a ‘significant mental disorder’ attributed to his treatment during detention. He has difficulty breathing and stomach problems which he attributes to the food..13.

the report of Dr. Eric Trupin:
“The symptoms O.K. [Omar Khadr] exhibits indicate a high probability that he suffers from a significant mental disorder, including but not limited to post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. In addition he appears to be having both delusions and hallucinations. Post-Traumatic stress disorder results from exposure to an extreme traumatic stressor involving direct personal experience of an event that involves actual or threatened death or serious injury, or other threat to one’s physical integrity.….Torture and incarceration as a prisoner of war or in a concentration camp are examples of events that could lead to the development of post-traumatic stress disorder. If left untreated, post-traumatic stress disorder, particularly in juveniles, may cause irreparable damage. It is my opinion, to a reasonable scientific certainty, that O.K.’s continued subjection to the threat of physical and mental abuse place him a significant risk for future psychiatric deterioration which may include irreversible psychiatric symptoms and disorder…In my professional opinion, O.K.’s symptoms are consistent with those exhibited by victims of torture and abuse…In my professional opinion, O.K. is at a moderate to high risk for suicide.”14
Source: http://www.nightslantern.ca/law/omarkhadr.html
 
Arent true muslims only supposed to engage in war when it is deemed necessary by one of the religious leaders? I dont think true Muslims are even fighting in these countries except maybe Palestine.---by MTAAFI
Um............NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that a NO to my assertation that Muslims are only to go to war when deemed necessary by a religious leader?
 
his left eye was injured during the fight but becuase it was not treated in Guantanamo Bay, he lost his left eye sight; his right eye has been blurred in Guantanamo Bay and according to this article and i believe other sources that i have read or heard, he has also been shot in Guantanamo

here are some of the other tortures that he is experiencing:

Source: http://www.nightslantern.ca/law/omarkhadr.html

I really dont see anything there that would constitute torture, maybe punishment or pressure tactics but not torture. To me torture would be getting toes or fingers cut off or other extremites, or perhaps watch the movie Hostel, that will give you an idea of torture.
 
1. not informed of his rights;
2. forced to provide involuntary statements;
3. short shackled -- wrists and ankles handcuffed together and the cuffs bolted to the floor;
4. forced to sit, during interrogation, on an extremely cold floor;
5. kept in isolation for a month at ‘refrigerator’ temperatures, (referred to in Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld’s memo as ‘manipulation of the environment’10;
6. his body dragged back and forth, while short shackled, through the urine so as to clean the floor with his body;
7. forced to perform painful exercises while short shackled;
8. repeatedly lifted and dropped while short shackled as a punishment for ‘poor performance’;
9. threatened with forced nakedness;
10. threatened with sexual violence;
11. forced to urinate on himself while in stress positions;
12. refused the opportunity to say prayers;
13. detained illegally and illegally held incommunicado, except for the November 2004 visit from a lawyer;
14. held in a cell that is ‘freezing cold’ 24 hours a day that Khadr says is causing shortness of breath and the sensation of not being able to get enough oxygen; and
15. kept in solitary confinement.
16. exposed to continuous electric light in his cell.
17. forced into stress positions for periods of hours, e.g., forced to lie on his stomach with his hands and feet cuffed together behind his back;
18. he has found partially dissolved tablets and/or powder at the bottom of a glass given him by his captors. He says the pills produce various effects -sleepiness, dizziness, alertness11.

Nothing on there is torture from my point of view. Uncomfortable? Of course. I was at least hoping to see some waterboarding. The majority of those can be found in any American prison.
 
I really dont see anything there that would constitute torture, maybe punishment or pressure tactics but not torture. To me torture would be getting toes or fingers cut off or other extremites, or perhaps watch the movie Hostel, that will give you an idea of torture.
torture

• noun 1 the infliction of severe pain as a punishment or a forcible means of persuasion. 2 great suffering or anxiety.

• verb subject to torture.

— DERIVATIVES torturer noun.

— ORIGIN Latin tortura ‘twisting, torment’, from torquere ‘to twist’.

Oxford Dictionary

water torture

• noun a form of torture in which the victim is exposed to the incessant dripping of water on the head or to the sound of dripping.

Oxford Dictionary Definition

'Waterboarding is torture - I did it myself,' says US advisor - Independent Online Edition

If merely dripping water on someone's head constitutes torture, I fail to see how pouring water over their face such that they are forced to inhale it does not.

Then again, this is not really on topic in the first place. I hope such practices were not inflicted upon the (then) boy.
 
lol..the sound of dripping water is torture? That pretty much sums up the problem right there.
 
Keltoi I have a question for you, If somebody placed you in freezing cold temperatures for over 24 hours without proper attire, forced you to urniate on yourself, threteaned you with sexual violence, made you suffer a bad eye vision on one eye, and made you blind from the other, shot at you three times, you wouldn't call it torture????
if you were going through such an atrocity, and people said it is not "torture" how would you feel?
wot exactly is torture to you?? do you not have any empathy. Lack of emaphty may create a dangerous individual.
 
1. not informed of his rights;
2. forced to provide involuntary statements;
3. short shackled -- wrists and ankles handcuffed together and the cuffs bolted to the floor;
4. forced to sit, during interrogation, on an extremely cold floor;
5. kept in isolation for a month at ‘refrigerator’ temperatures, (referred to in Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld’s memo as ‘manipulation of the environment’10;
6. his body dragged back and forth, while short shackled, through the urine so as to clean the floor with his body;
7. forced to perform painful exercises while short shackled;
8. repeatedly lifted and dropped while short shackled as a punishment for ‘poor performance’;
9. threatened with forced nakedness;
10. threatened with sexual violence;
11. forced to urinate on himself while in stress positions;
12. refused the opportunity to say prayers;
13. detained illegally and illegally held incommunicado, except for the November 2004 visit from a lawyer;
14. held in a cell that is ‘freezing cold’ 24 hours a day that Khadr says is causing shortness of breath and the sensation of not being able to get enough oxygen; and
15. kept in solitary confinement.
16. exposed to continuous electric light in his cell.
17. forced into stress positions for periods of hours, e.g., forced to lie on his stomach with his hands and feet cuffed together behind his back;
18. he has found partially dissolved tablets and/or powder at the bottom of a glass given him by his captors. He says the pills produce various effects -sleepiness, dizziness, alertness11.

Nothing on there is torture from my point of view. Uncomfortable? Of course. I was at least hoping to see some waterboarding. The majority of those can be found in any American prison.

wow
 
Keltoi I have a question for you, If somebody placed you in freezing cold temperatures for over 24 hours without proper attire, forced you to urniate on yourself, threteaned you with sexual violence, made you suffer a bad eye vision on one eye, and made you blind from the other, shot at you three times, you wouldn't call it torture????
if you were going through such an atrocity, and people said it is not "torture" how would you feel?
wot exactly is torture to you?? do you not have any empathy. Lack of emaphty may create a dangerous individual.


good point

i have no doubt that the advocates of this on this forum would be screaming like a bunch of pregnant women had any of this treatment been directed at them :cry:

but its fine if it happens to some random muslim fella who may or may not be innocent
 
good point

i have no doubt that the advocates of this on this forum would be screaming like a bunch of pregnant women had any of this treatment been directed at them :cry:

but its fine if it happens to some random muslim fella who may or may not be innocent

i totally agree with you brother
 
Is that a NO to my assertation that Muslims are only to go to war when deemed necessary by a religious leader?---MTAFFI

YES that is it.Its an obligation upon us.Muslims are suppose to fight jihaad until ALlah's word is the highest , basically it will continue till judgment day specifically, when Ya'j and Ma'juj (gog and magog) come out. Originally jihad was a collective duty ( fard kifayah) but today it has become an individual duty(fard ayn) even for the women without her mahram's permission.
 
Keltoi I have a question for you, If somebody placed you in freezing cold temperatures for over 24 hours without proper attire, forced you to urniate on yourself, threteaned you with sexual violence, made you suffer a bad eye vision on one eye, and made you blind from the other, shot at you three times, you wouldn't call it torture????
if you were going through such an atrocity, and people said it is not "torture" how would you feel?
wot exactly is torture to you?? do you not have any empathy. Lack of emaphty may create a dangerous individual.

So he was cold, somebody made a rude sexual comment at him, didn't take him to the bathroom, and didn't give him "proper" treatment for an eye injury he sustained while he attempted to "martyr" himself...no, I do not consider that torture. I consider that being captured on a battlefield by the people you tried to kill. Perhaps those who captured him should have blown his brains out on the battlefield...which would have happened if the situation was reversed.

This guy is a captured enemy. He is not going to be treated like royalty. He isn't going to enjoy it. He isn't going to wake up to breakfast-in-bed with access to Nintendo. He made his bed and now he is sleeping in it...so to speak. If he wanted to be an enemy of the United States, which he obviously did, his wish has now come true. Cry me a river.

That being said, I do not support torture. However, my definition of torture is obviously something quite different than many people who are posting on this thread.
 
good point

i have no doubt that the advocates of this on this forum would be screaming like a bunch of pregnant women had any of this treatment been directed at them :cry:

but its fine if it happens to some random muslim fella who may or may not be innocent

If I am captured by an enemy I would expect much worse than cold temperatures and lack of bathroom breaks. More to the point, if I was captured by these noble "mujahideen" I would expect to be paraded in front of a cheap video camera with my hands tied behind my back waiting for a slow and sloppy beheading...but we don't want to talk about that do we?
 
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