wilberhum
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Nasty memories but there was a major problem from the get-go.
But why do you think "Pakistan will suffer"?
Same reasons I do? Or do you have others?
Iran welcomes US nuclear report
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But why do you think "Pakistan will suffer"?
Same reasons I do? Or do you have others?
Woodrow
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I believe that Iran still has eyes on Pakistan territory. Any build up or support of Iran would greatly increase the incentive for Iran to push into Pakistan. At the moment we seem to have 3 potential invaders of Pakistan, Iran, The Taliban from Afghanistan and India. The one with the support to do so would begin a major offensive into Pakistan. this will open the door for a major 3 way invasion.
Of course in time that will result in a 3 way conflict with Pakistan serving as the battlefield.
Cognescenti
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Guys, I would suggest you dont read too much into this.
1) It is an "estimate". The actual assembly on a nuclear weapon once the components are available (and given a good design) can be done in a very small building (or even a tent) in secrecy.
2) The Iranians alrady seem to have bought a desing from A Q Kahn
3) They are still processing uranium! Even if they stop at a level of U-235 insufficient for a bomb, they are still 98% of the way there and can divert some non-bomb grade HEU to bomb production.
4) The report says they still could have a nuke shoudl they chose by 2010!!!
5) The Israeli make up their own minds
Also, I don't see any alliance with Iran in the near future. Promises have been made to the Gulf Arab states for security guarantees.
1) It is an "estimate". The actual assembly on a nuclear weapon once the components are available (and given a good design) can be done in a very small building (or even a tent) in secrecy.
2) The Iranians alrady seem to have bought a desing from A Q Kahn
3) They are still processing uranium! Even if they stop at a level of U-235 insufficient for a bomb, they are still 98% of the way there and can divert some non-bomb grade HEU to bomb production.
4) The report says they still could have a nuke shoudl they chose by 2010!!!
5) The Israeli make up their own minds
Also, I don't see any alliance with Iran in the near future. Promises have been made to the Gulf Arab states for security guarantees.
The_Prince
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lol notice the ppl who are never satisfied, they say iran COULD still make a nuke IF they WANT to. notice all speculation, every fact and report keeps comming out showing they ARE NOT making a bomb! the counter reply? oh well they probaly want to! wowwwwwwww lets go to war now based on an assumption.
this is a joke, these ppl who want war are willing to go to war just because they think iran wants to make a bomb, not because they have actual proof that Iran is making a bomb, no, but they THINK iran is thinking of making a bomb. how pathetic.
the war is still comming, we are dealing with very arrogant barbaric neo-con crusading terrorists who will not stop at anything to carry out their plans for change in the mid-east to fit their ways and ideas. too bad they will fail though as theyre failing in iraq, and afghanistan, and lebanon, but they are like a pest and wont stop until they self-destruct by the will of Allah, and thats going to be when Isa comes back and kills the dajjal and destroys his system.
this is a joke, these ppl who want war are willing to go to war just because they think iran wants to make a bomb, not because they have actual proof that Iran is making a bomb, no, but they THINK iran is thinking of making a bomb. how pathetic.
the war is still comming, we are dealing with very arrogant barbaric neo-con crusading terrorists who will not stop at anything to carry out their plans for change in the mid-east to fit their ways and ideas. too bad they will fail though as theyre failing in iraq, and afghanistan, and lebanon, but they are like a pest and wont stop until they self-destruct by the will of Allah, and thats going to be when Isa comes back and kills the dajjal and destroys his system.
Keltoi
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Anyway, I do agree with Cognescenti. This is simply a report by the NIE, the same NIE who handed us the Iraq intelligence pre-war. I also noticed the date of 2003 as the time when Iran stopped its nuclear weapons program, which happens to be the same year as the invasion of Iraq. Could be coincedence, but somehow I doubt it.
islamirama
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Woodrow
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Some parts of the scenario may very well change depending on the situation in Pakistan.
Pakistan has been getting to be very Palsy with China and it seems much of their support is now coming from China.
Source: http://pk.china-embassy.org/eng/zbgx/
Add to this the probability that there are at least 3 entities that want Pakistan and given the chance Pakistan will be split among 3 invaders.
I suspect that Bush and company are aware that the quickest way to keep China from gaining strength in the mid east would be to support this 3 way split by strengthening ties with Iran for a take over of Pakistan by Iran, Afghanistan and India.
At the moment Iran does not have to worry about any further attacks from Iraq, so it can reduce it's military force from the Iran/Iraq border and concentrate on pushing into Pakistan. Bush may gain more by having Iran concentrate on Pakistan, than to consider aggression towards Iran. Many mutual problems are resolved. Iran gains by not having to worry about it's long time enemy Iraq, Iran gains at least a portion of Pakistan, the US fear of Chinese presence in the region is lessened. Everybody except Iraq and Pakistan walk away happy.
Cognescenti
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lol notice the ppl who are never satisfied, they say iran COULD still make a nuke IF they WANT to. notice all speculation, every fact and report keeps comming out showing they ARE NOT making a bomb! the counter reply? oh well they probaly want to! wowwwwwwww lets go to war now based on an assumption.
this is a joke, these ppl who want war are willing to go to war just because they think iran wants to make a bomb, not because they have actual proof that Iran is making a bomb, no, but they THINK iran is thinking of making a bomb. how pathetic.
the war is still comming, we are dealing with very arrogant barbaric neo-con crusading terrorists who will not stop at anything to carry out their plans for change in the mid-east to fit their ways and ideas. too bad they will fail though as theyre failing in iraq, and afghanistan, and lebanon, but they are like a pest and wont stop until they self-destruct by the will of Allah, and thats going to be when Isa comes back and kills the dajjal and destroys his system.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :giggling:
Hey Pal, who said anything about attacking? It is a simple question of physics. The most difficult part of making a nuclear bomb is getting your hands on sufficient fissionable material (Uranium 235 or Plutonium usually although it is even possible to use Amerecium). Plutonium is man made in nuclear reactors. Iran has no reactors to do this so if they awant fissionable material they need to acquire U235. Uranium 235 is only present in natural Uranium in small amounts so it has to be concentrated against a big gradient to a high level of purity. This is VERY expensive and technologically difficult. The Iranians are still doing this as we speak. This has to be costing them big money and consuming massive amounts of electrical power to do this. Why would the possibly choose to do this when the Russians have offered to sell them Uranium fuel for nuclear reactors at a cost they could not hope to match? Nobody trusts the Iranians not to divert the stuff when they have it. Why do they not trust them? Because they intentionally hid their program from the IAEA in violation of treaty obligations.
Maybe they have "stopped" actively trying to make a bomb...maybe not. But do you realize the meaning of the word "to stop"??? It means they were trying to do so in the past. Do you think they lost the plans? Try not to be so dense. Let something that doesn't fit your template permaeate your head every once in a while (if Allah wills it of course).
EDIT: Removed challenge. Gambling is haram and to allow anything that may entice gambling, no matter how small is haram. Perhaps the member can rephrase the challange in a manner that is not gambling.
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The_Prince
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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ :giggling:
Hey Pal, who said anything about attacking? It is a simple question of physics. The most difficult part of making a nuclear bomb is getting your hands on sufficient fissionable material (Uranium 235 or Plutonium usually although it is even possible to use Amerecium). Plutonium is man made in nuclear reactors. Iran has no reactors to do this so if they awant fissionable material they need to acquire U235. Uranium 235 is only present in natural Uranium in small amounts so it has to be concentrated against a big gradient to a high level of purity. This is VERY expensive and technologically difficult. The Iranians are still doing this as we speak. This has to be costing them big money and consuming massive amounts of electrical power to do this. Why would the possibly choose to do this when the Russians have offered to sell them Uranium fuel for nuclear reactors at a cost they could not hope to match? Nobody trusts the Iranians not to divert the stuff when they have it. Why do they not trust them? Because they intentionally hid their program from the IAEA in violation of treaty obligations.
Maybe they have "stopped" actively trying to make a bomb...maybe not. But do you realize the meaning of the word "to stop"??? It means they were trying to do so in the past. Do you think they lost the plans? Try not to be so dense. Let something that doesn't fit your template permaeate your head every once in a while (if Allah wills it of course).
BTW..I am prepared to make a bet with anyone on the forum that the US will not attack Iran (unless overtly attacked first) while Bush is in office. I would sugest $50-100. I would bet more because it is a good bet but I wouldn't trust 90% of you to pay me. If you can't bet for religious resaons then the loser will donate to a charity of the winner's choice (not
you prove my point, all you have is SPECULATION, ohhhhhh their doing this, so ohhhhhhh they must want that! in terms of debating thats a fallacy.
iran has stated they are doing this for peaceful means and as a way for the future to have good atomic energy etc etc. now you dont believe them, but who cares what you believe or not, the REPORTS AND FACTS say iran isnt building a bomb, and you say ohhhhhhh their enriching uranium which iran has said is for peaceful means and again you respond by saying ohhhhhhhh its a lie they want a bomb not peace! and i ask where is the actual proof that theyre making a bomb? oh wait a minute, there is none!!!!!!!!!
again, BRING ACTUAL FACTS that theyre making a bomb, not ohhh theyre enriching uranium thefore they want to make a bomb! iran has already denied that.
as for being so secret about it, actually they havent been SO SECRET about it many times theyve given reports even the IAE stated Iran are being open and so on.
and quite frankly why should iran be open with every program it does? oh its a treaty agreement? oh really? perhaps america and israel should start doing the same then and start telling us about all the great millitary and civillian technology that they work on and even make yet keep secret.
its even doubly funny that israel is FULLY SECRET about its own nuclear program then all of you want to turn and point fingers at iran? iran, a nation that NEVER attacked another country first, unlike israel who has time and time again attacked countries first, and were supposed to be worried about iran who have no bomb, arent making a bomb, dont make wars! what a joke.
even IF iran was making a bomb, you know what? why not? id be happy if they made a bomb, usa makes so many nukes, israel has done it, so why not iran? ohhhhhh they said we wanna wipe israel off the map! oh nooooooo theyre so mean now! forget about israel who used to say they will kick all palestinians and arabs out and DID follow on their words on several occasions, but oh nooooooo lets worry about iran because of one comment they made which was even mis-translated. iran has every single right to have a bomb with terrorist israel beside them always making threats and killing and oppressing the Muslims of the region.
its really funny, we see this EVERYDAY AND EVERY YEAR. first with the palestinians, the israelis act like their the victims, yes, israel with f-16's, the best tanks, one of the most advanced millitaries in the world, and the strongest in the mid-east, and even have nukes, and yes, their the victims, while the very very oppressing palestinians with rocks, ak's, and katushya's who have to carry id's and pass through checkpoints which delays by 3 hours to reach a place which only takes 5 mins are the realllllll bad oppressing ppl!
and now same with iran, iran with no nuclear bomb, with no proof of even making a bomb, a country who never attacked another nation, yes they are the very very evil scary ones, while israel the sweet innocent angel who HAS nuclear bombs and every other type of chemical and biological weapon, who have ATTACKED other countries first, who HAVE killed thousands of innocent Muslim arabs, yes they are the good guys and the oppressed ones who's survival is at stake.
its all a JOKE, the biggest JOKE that has ever been portrayed to the public. oh yes lets not forget america, the only nation to have used an atomic bomb! i mean unless you were a human you would honestly not believe this cr@p! it sounds so unbelievable yet its true! if an alien came here and we told this to them theyd laugh at us saying haha nice once, the oppresser is acting like the oppressed! then wed say, its true, no joke, no script!!!!!!!!!
I think rafidah friends in this thread are being selective as much as the neo-cons are.
either they are little kiddies playing at being analyst or they think that rest of us are dumb and daft.
rafidah are after recreating the Persian empire that may have existed before or around Christ times. each and every time we are invaded by India lahnatullas of Iran try to take over Baluchistan.
india sees pakistan as a reminder of mughal rule and when east pakistan was taken from us, Indira gandi said as much.
india tried successfully to label pakistani nuclear program as "Islamic Bomb" and once some thing is labelled Islamist and bush has bought in to the idea, it becomes an obsession to eradicate it lest it becomes vanguard for a rival empire
co-operation between china and pakistan is another thorn in sides of both india and bush.
mullah of red mosque was used in an attempt to cause rifts between china and pakistan but with Allah's help he was sent to hell before he could do much damage
either they are little kiddies playing at being analyst or they think that rest of us are dumb and daft.
rafidah are after recreating the Persian empire that may have existed before or around Christ times. each and every time we are invaded by India lahnatullas of Iran try to take over Baluchistan.
india sees pakistan as a reminder of mughal rule and when east pakistan was taken from us, Indira gandi said as much.
india tried successfully to label pakistani nuclear program as "Islamic Bomb" and once some thing is labelled Islamist and bush has bought in to the idea, it becomes an obsession to eradicate it lest it becomes vanguard for a rival empire
co-operation between china and pakistan is another thorn in sides of both india and bush.
mullah of red mosque was used in an attempt to cause rifts between china and pakistan but with Allah's help he was sent to hell before he could do much damage
The_Prince
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you know if i was american i would be worried that my president has lied to me YET AGAIN, and has YET AGAIN built up a false sense of danger.
remember when bush said iran getting a nuclear bomb can lead to WORLD WAR THREE?!!!!!!!! well guess what, when he said that he was already informed of this report that iran had stopped their nuclear program.
so he was spewing about ww3 when he knew iran wasnt even making a bomb.
if your american i think that should make you more worried than a man all the way in the mid-east, you have your own president talking about ww3 based on a non-existent entity.....
remember when bush said iran getting a nuclear bomb can lead to WORLD WAR THREE?!!!!!!!! well guess what, when he said that he was already informed of this report that iran had stopped their nuclear program.
so he was spewing about ww3 when he knew iran wasnt even making a bomb.
if your american i think that should make you more worried than a man all the way in the mid-east, you have your own president talking about ww3 based on a non-existent entity.....
wilberhum
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Some of us are capable of worring about more that one thing.
snakelegs
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i am much more worried about the madman in the white house than the madman in tehran.
it is unbelievable how we are seeing the exact same scenario as the lead-up to iraq all over again.
The_Prince
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well be MORE worried about bush, he has lied to you guys AGAIN, everyone was on clintons back for lying about a sexual affair, i mean who wouldnt lie about that if you were in his position?! no one would actually get hurt by his lies, and national security wasnt in danger.
BUT bush, he has lied about things that can get ppl killed, and has threatened american national security, yet no one calls for impeachment and they dont give him half the trouble they gave clinton! and now with that ww3 comment WHEN HE KNEW iran wasnt in a nuc weapons program!
this guy should be impeached.
Woodrow
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Perhaps our biggest danger is we view him as a "Lame Duck" President who is on his way out and has no influence or power left. Too many of us may be thinking that his antics are no more dangerous than a 2 year olds temper tantrums.
It is time for us to wake up. If not for helping other people, but to at least protect ourselves.
just think about neighbourhood criminal gangs and their alliances in any inner cities. no mafia don would want another to dominate "his" areas. and alliance and cooperation between China is unacceptable to both India an US.
if you remember not too along a foreign agent (murderous mullah) at red mosque tried to split Pakistan and china by kidnapping Chinese citizens but was thwarted successfully.
wilberhum
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So now I will go back to worring about what I care most about.
The_Prince
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iran isnt making a bomb, so thats that, no ww3 for now for the neo-cons, but they will probaly go make something else up.
i wonder what it will be next............................
wilberhum
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Obviously you didn't read.iran isnt making a bomb, so thats that, no ww3 for now for the neo-cons, but they will probaly go make something else up.
i wonder what it will be next............................
Guess what? I don't live with my head in the sand, nor am I naive.
No WWIII? Now you have to be kidding. Or you are naive.
It will happen. No one knows for sure how it will start, but it will start.