Religious scholars mull Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Muezzin]

Ha ha, athiests believe in Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

That was a joke. If you did not laugh, I apologise. I also ask you to purchase a sense of humour. For me too, if necessary. But give me a receipt as well, yeah?

 

[wilberhum]

Ha ha, athiests believe in Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

That was a joke. If you did not laugh, I apologise. I also ask you to purchase a sense of humour. For me too, if necessary. But give me a receipt as well, yeah?

Na, I don't think atheists believe. :hmm: But the FSM is funny. :giggling:

It also puts some serious thoughts out there. hew

 

[Talha777]

Flying Speghetti monster was invented by some smarty pants to try and make people think a personal concept of God is ridiculous

Allah is the Creator and Sustainers of the Heavens and the Earth, He revealed Himself to mankind through a series of 124 thousand prophets throughout human history, the last one being Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). He showed many signs and miracles through His Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam).

One is undeniably false (fsm) and the other is undeniably Real (Allah).

Tawheed (Oneness of God) has three aspects:

Tawheed Ruboobiyah - This is the Lordship of God, it is something that is manifest and undeniable. Only the worst kind of disbelievers (atheists) reject Tawheed Ruboobiyah. They see how the universe, the heavens and the Earth, and all creatures were created with a magnificent design that entails the existence of a Designer with certain exclusive qualities (Omnipotent, Omnicient, Eternal, Above and Beyond His creation, One). Incidentally this scientific concept of the Creator rules out many manmade fairy tales, such as the trinity and the olympian pantheon.

Tawheed Uloohiyah - the belief that Allah alone is God and all acts of worship must be directed to Him alone. This is the belief in Oneness of God which separates the believers from the disbelievers even though most disbeliever claims to believe in One God, they are lacking this important aspect of Tawheed.

Asma was Siffat - The Names and Attributes of God. Belief in simply God is not sufficient. As we know many people have radically different concepts of God and the cause of this is they do not recognize His true Names and Attributes which He revealed in the Quran so that we can know more about Him.

 

[Resigned]

Na, I don't think atheists believe. :hmm: But the FSM is funny. :giggling:

It also puts some serious thoughts out there. hew

This is all well and good but it is time to bring up something I've heretofore kept under wraps. That is the existence of the blujkrenatural. Yes, the blujkrenatural is the realm by which the supernatural is analyzed. Without the blujkrenatural, the supernatural would not exist. Do not ask for any characteristics of the blujkrenatural, as it cannot be demonstrated. It cannot be accessed, nor can it be proven. But exists it does. With the blurkrenatural, the existence of the myraid gods that rule the natural realm are made extant. Henceforth, all responses re: the dynamics of the supernatural naturally fall under the higher echelon of the blujkrenatural.

 

[wilberhum]

Flying Speghetti monster was invented by some smarty pants to try and make people think a personal concept of God is ridiculous

Obviously you have know knowledge of why the FSM was documented. :skeleton:

It had nothing to do with "a personal concept of God". :?

 

[Keltoi]

If the fsm is meant to demonstrate that a higher power cannot be proven by today's scientific method...I really doubt that comes as a shocker to anyone.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Na, I don't think atheists believe. :hmm: But the FSM is funny. :giggling:

It also puts some serious thoughts out there. hew

And among them that people, no matter how much they may think of themselves as purely rational creatures have a side of them that is not:

Lucas Johnston, the third Florida student, argues the Flying Spaghetti Monsterism exhibits at least some of the traits of a traditional religion -- including, perhaps, that deep human need to feel like there's something bigger than oneself out there.

He recognized the point when his neighbor, a militant atheist who sports a pro-Darwin bumper sticker on her car, tried recently to start her car on a dying battery.

As she turned the key, she murmured under her breath: "Come on Spaghetti Monster!"

Whether it is an irrational appeal to a Spaghetti Monster, or a faith appeal to a divine being, there is another side to each and every one of us. Some of us have chosen to explore that side and some of us have chosen to ignore that side. Now tell me, given that this other non-rational side (I won't call it irrational) exists in each one of us, which is the more honest inquiry into the world in which we live? The one that tries to examine it, however poorly that examination is done, or the one that tries to dismiss it as not being examinable?

I appreciate FSM, but I think it strikes a chord not just because of the humor behind it, but because at a subconscious level we also recognize there is a degree of truth in it as well. There is something else out there, a mystery beyond ourselves (I would say a divine mystery, I don't expect eveyone to agree that it is divine, some may think it just more scientific mysteries) and mankind has been trying to put a name to it for eons. Flying Spaghetti Monster was invented as a placeholder for all those unknown gods, it is as good of a placeholder as any. But while FSM may be a human creation, that doesn't mean that what it is holding a place for is any less real.

 

[wilberhum]

Grace Seeker
You really understand "The Message". :shade:

I find it interesting that so few "Get it". :-\

 

[Muezzin]

I get it. I agree with Grace Seeker's assessment. It's just funny how many times I've seen it used by people as a way of insulting those who believe in a deity or deities, rather than as a placeholder, or as a spoof of creationism.

I've often seen it used with scorn, actually, as opposed to a light-hearted ribbing, a chuckled, 'come on, mate, you can't really believe that', which I assume is what the original intention of the term was.

 

[crayon]

Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly is the concept of intelligent design taught in science?

From an evolutionary perspective?

 

[wilberhum]

Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly is the concept of intelligent design taught in science?

From an evolutionary perspective?

It isn't.

A Kansas school board wanted to. That is why the FSM was documented.

ID is just creationism with a "False Front".

There is nothing scientific about ID.

 

[crayon]

Oooooh, all right.
I know intelligent design is the same as creationism, so I was wondering how it could be taught from a scientific perspective.
Now I see that they wanted to teach intelligent design as a theory, the same that is done with evolution.
That doesn't sound very clear here, but it is in my head.

Makes sense now, thanks for explaining wilberhum.

 

[Muezzin]

There is nothing scientific about ID.

Tell that to airport security

Oh, I'll stop.

So anyway, how come the Flying Spaghetti Monster term has moved beyond a lighthearted jab at creationism, and (in some quarters) become a scornful critique of the concept of God?

 

[wilberhum]

I get it. I agree with Grace Seeker's assessment. It's just funny how many times I've seen it used by people as a way of insulting those who believe in a deity or deities, rather than as a placeholder, or as a spoof of creationism.

I've often seen it used with scorn, actually, as opposed to a light-hearted ribbing, a chuckled, 'come on, mate, you can't really believe that', which I assume is what the original intention of the term was.

Though not the primary purpose, I find using the FSM for insulting is effective.

I find it an appropriate agreement against those who claim "Proof" when it is obvious that there is only "Faith".

 

[wilberhum]

Tell that to airport security

Oh, I'll stop.

So anyway, how come the Flying Spaghetti Monster term has moved beyond a lighthearted jab at creationism, and (in some quarters) become a scornful critique of the concept of God?

Airport Security - That's funny. :giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:
But,
I don't think Ben Franklin meant for his discovery to be used to execute people either. :?

 

[Qingu]

So anyway, how come the Flying Spaghetti Monster term has moved beyond a lighthearted jab at creationism, and (in some quarters) become a scornful critique of the concept of God?

It is actually a critique of a particular "proof" advanced for the existence of God.

You've probably heard this argument, which is often brought up by Christians: "You can't prove that God DOESN'T exist since you don't know everything. So atheism can't be right, because you can't KNOW he doesn't exist."

The Flying Spaghetti Monster idea basically points out that you can say the same thing about any imaginary or ridiculous creature. Because you also can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. The point being, just because you can't prove something exists doesn't mean there's any reason to believe that it does.

 

[Grace Seeker]

It is actually a critique of a particular "proof" advanced for the existence of God.

You've probably heard this argument, which is often brought up by Christians: "You can't prove that God DOESN'T exist since you don't know everything. So atheism can't be right, because you can't KNOW he doesn't exist."

The Flying Spaghetti Monster idea basically points out that you can say the same thing about any imaginary or ridiculous creature. Because you also can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist. The point being, just because you can't prove something exists doesn't mean there's any reason to believe that it does.

With the corrallary, that this argument also makes being just as true, just because one can't prove that something exists, doesn't mean that it doesn't either.




What I think that FSM really points out, isn't anything about the existence or lack of existence of God, ID, or a host of other concepts, but rather that most people are very poor logicians.

 

[Qingu]

With the corrallary, that this argument also makes being just as true, just because one can't prove that something exists, doesn't mean that it doesn't either.

The point is that this is a meaningless statement. The Flying Spaghetti Monster could exist.

What I think that FSM really points out, isn't anything about the existence or lack of existence of God, ID, or a host of other concepts, but rather that most people are very poor logicians.

I'll toast to that. Incidentally, have you noticed these very poor logicians tend to be religious?

 

[Grace Seeker]

The point is that this is a meaningless statement. The Flying Spaghetti Monster could exist.

Exactly. It could. It could exist, reveal itself to a few, provide hints of its existence to all, and still have the vast majority of supposedly intellectually bright and logical thinkers still denying its existence and thinking how wise they are for doing so and foolish are the rest who don't realize that it is a myth, a total fabrication. Now, its existence would have no meaning for those who had no belief in nor any connection with FSM. And also, for those who had a connection but turned from it, the statement would also have no meaning. But for those who believed such a statement either positive or negative with regard to the FSM would have meaning, and curiously, the meaning would not arise out of the reality of the existence of the FSM, but out of their belief in it.




As to the other part of your statement:

I'll toast to that. Incidentally, have you noticed these very poor logicians tend to be religious?

I think that all poor logicians tend to be religious. It does not therefore follow that all who are religious are necessarily poor logicians, though certainly some are.

Of course, I also think that, ironically, some of those who declare themselves to be atheists or agnostic are actually among that group of both poor logicians and religious adherants. The reason I say this is that because their logic is not actually as well formed as they might think it is, they make statements regarding their views of God that are themselves simply another form of saying, "this is what I believe" and little more than that. They thus aren't religions in the classical sense of a set of systemitized values and doctrines, but they are nonetheless every bit as religious in their behavior, lacking the substance of religion but still practicing its form.

 

[Muezzin]

All this stuff about poor logicians being religious... it's seems like another superiority complex.

Stereotypical theist: Ha ha! You are an unwashed heathen! You will burn! I'm better than you!

Stereotypical atheist: Ha ha! You're thick! So I'm better than you!

Will we never learn?