Being Muslim
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muslim1
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Yes I'm sure of that. If we are sincere God will of course lead us to the right path all the time.
I heard a christian guy once sayting that we all are the Sons of God ! Ok the picture is more clear to me now on how Christian think of God. But why then they try to force the word literally? I think over history there have been good benifits for some people in the church out of this BIG LIE ! :laugh:
Now the first thing coming to my mind now is the clear Islamic picture of God, where we cant compare God to anything or anyone. He is one who cant be two or three, who cant have son or daughter or wife, who cant eat or drink like humans. It is really very clear in Islam.
Thank you and I wish you the best :thumbs_up
I heard a christian guy once sayting that we all are the Sons of God ! Ok the picture is more clear to me now on how Christian think of God. But why then they try to force the word literally? I think over history there have been good benifits for some people in the church out of this BIG LIE ! :laugh:
Now the first thing coming to my mind now is the clear Islamic picture of God, where we cant compare God to anything or anyone. He is one who cant be two or three, who cant have son or daughter or wife, who cant eat or drink like humans. It is really very clear in Islam.
Thank you and I wish you the best :thumbs_up
muslim1
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Caroline
I think you can can get much help by reading for Ahmed Deedat. He was a very famous scholar from South Africa, for his debates with famous priests, and so many of them turned to Islam because of him. Many thousands of people did the same too.
I found a website has some of his books: www.islamebook.com
Good luck :thumbs_up
I think you can can get much help by reading for Ahmed Deedat. He was a very famous scholar from South Africa, for his debates with famous priests, and so many of them turned to Islam because of him. Many thousands of people did the same too.
I found a website has some of his books: www.islamebook.com
Good luck :thumbs_up
caroline
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I have often felt a need for more reverance in worship. When I'm in church services I usually am feeling that we lack a sense of who God really is. I think about how Moses couldn't even look upon Him and the power and majesty of God... In my heart I'm often thinking, "we should fall on our faces!"
Once when I was praying and singing I said, "I worship you God for who you are." and immediately after that the thought came into my head as though God said, "You don't know who I am." At that moment I realized that I DON'T know... and that none of us knows -- who He truly is. And we probably won't be able to know until we are with Him.
I often wonder how we would actually conduct ourselves if we really knew who God IS.
Once when I was praying and singing I said, "I worship you God for who you are." and immediately after that the thought came into my head as though God said, "You don't know who I am." At that moment I realized that I DON'T know... and that none of us knows -- who He truly is. And we probably won't be able to know until we are with Him.
I often wonder how we would actually conduct ourselves if we really knew who God IS.
muslim1
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I wonder what makes you want to fall on your face if it is not Islam in your heart. Every word you say, makes me sure that you are a Muslim; whether you like it or not!
In Islam we are told by prophet SAWS that when falling on our faces during prayers, we are in the closest position to God. It is felt in our hearts. It is a symbol of our submission to Him and that He is our only Creator. :thumbs_up
the story of Moses is mentioned in Quran too. According to Quran, Moses asked God to see Him. God said you wont be able to see me, but look at the mountain. When God showed to the mountain, the mountain fell immediately and Moses was fainted ! :thumbs_up
In Islam, the Holy Spirit is understood to be the Angel Jibra'il (Gabriel). Quran 16:102 Say, "The Holy Spirit (Gabriel) has brought it down piecemeal intact from your Rabb to strengthen the faith of the believers, and to give guidance and good news to the Muslims."
Although the portions in parenthesis are interpretative, it is well known that the Angel Jibra'il is the one who brought the Quran to Muhammad (saaws) over a period of 23 years.
Quran 2:87 To Musa (Moses) We gave the Book (Torah) and sent after him other Rasools in succession; then We gave Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear Signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit (Gabriel). Why is it that whenever there came to you a Rasool with a message which did not suit your desires, you became so arrogant that some you called impostors and others you killed!
See also 2:253 and 5:110 for ayat (verses) where Allah (swt) supported Jesus (as) with the Holy Spirit.
UmmSqueakster
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Best. Qura'n. Offer. Ever.
All you need to pay is the shipping. This Qur'an is BEAUTIFUL. I have probably a dozen different translations and this is my favorite - not only is it beautifully put together, it has the arabic transliterated into roman characters, so it's easy for those who don't know arabic to recite, it has excellent, extensive footnotes based on a wide sampling of traditional tafsir, and it's easy to read and understand.
All you need to pay is the shipping. This Qur'an is BEAUTIFUL. I have probably a dozen different translations and this is my favorite - not only is it beautifully put together, it has the arabic transliterated into roman characters, so it's easy for those who don't know arabic to recite, it has excellent, extensive footnotes based on a wide sampling of traditional tafsir, and it's easy to read and understand.
Just a note on the free copy:
"The Message of the Quran by Muhammad Asad (Gibraltar, 1980) represents a notable addition to the body of English translations couched in chaste English. This work is nonetheless vitiated by deviation from the viewpoint of the Muslim orthodoxy on many counts. Averse to take some Quranic statements literally, Asad denies the occurrence of such events as the throwing of Abraham into the fire, Jesus speaking in the cradle, etc. He also regards Luqman, Khizr and Zulqarnain as 'mythical figures' and holds unorthodox views on the abrogation of verses. These blemishes apart, this highly readable translation contains useful, though sometimes unreliable background information about the Quranic Suras and even provides exhaustive notes on various Quranic themes."
(from soundvision link above)
"The Message of the Quran by Muhammad Asad (Gibraltar, 1980) represents a notable addition to the body of English translations couched in chaste English. This work is nonetheless vitiated by deviation from the viewpoint of the Muslim orthodoxy on many counts. Averse to take some Quranic statements literally, Asad denies the occurrence of such events as the throwing of Abraham into the fire, Jesus speaking in the cradle, etc. He also regards Luqman, Khizr and Zulqarnain as 'mythical figures' and holds unorthodox views on the abrogation of verses. These blemishes apart, this highly readable translation contains useful, though sometimes unreliable background information about the Quranic Suras and even provides exhaustive notes on various Quranic themes."
(from soundvision link above)
caroline
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sigh.
My husband and I had a very difficult discussion about the Trinity last night. We had discussed it a couple of times last week but not gotten too deeply into it. Then last night while we were having our regular Bible study, he brought the excerpt in Matthew where Jesus is praying before they come to take him away to be crucified. When he read it, I could tell he thought that the scripture we were reading proved that Jesus was God. But it clearly proved that Jesus was NOT God.
When I said that he started talking and talking and talking and I said, "Please, stick to the scripture. Forget everything you've been told and look at these worlds rationally, from a purely intellectual standpoint and read what they actually say. Read the words and not all the suppositions between the lines that you've heard all your life. Just read these words."
We read it again and again and he continued to say it proved that Jesus was God but eventually his voice faltered and I could tell that he was seeing the words for the first time.
In that passage Jesus is praying to God. Why would he pray to God if he WAS God? In that passage Jesus tells God that he is ready to come to Him. He tells him that he has spread His name to the people that God sent him to, just as God instructed him to do and that those people did believe that he was sent by God. Why would he send him if he WAS him? Why would he tell him, "I've done the work you sent me to do" if he WAS God.
Then we went over the part where he says, "I am in you and you are in me" to God. Then Jesus says, "We are one." And I pointed out that my husband and I say those same things about each other. Don't we? I never say that I AM my husband but I speak for him, I sign his name legally, I represent him where ever I go. When people see me they see him and say, "Look, there's L----'s wife." Then Jesus goes on to say that all the apostles and every person in the future that believes he was sent by God will also be as one JUST THE SAME AS HE AND GOD ARE ONE.
So I said, "So by this logic every person who believes Jesus was sent by God is also God."
Then I showed him the scripture in Matthew where a person comes up to Jesus and calls him "Good Master." Jesus says to that person, "Why do you call me good?! There is only ONE GOOD and that is God. If you want to see him -- keep his commandments."
Now that is clear proof that the doctrine of the Trinity is not scriptural according to the Christian Bible.
The point is that my husband fell into despair. He kept frantically searching through the Bible and then he started crying. He said, What am I supposed to do NOW? How can I preach NOW? What can I tell the people NOW -- a LIE? Everything I've ever believed in is based on this.
Then he said, "Well I'm going to find out...." and I said, If you are going to ask people, ask people other than the ones who will tell you what you want to hear. Don't pull out scriptures that can BE CONSTRUED as supporting this theory of the the Triune God. Show me Biblical proof. I don't want to hear anybody's opinion.
It was very difficult and sad. I felt so guilty, like I had torn down the foundation of his life!!! He was so shaken... torn up. And I felt like it was my fault. At that moment that I saw his pain I wanted to take it all back. It scared me because I don't want him to change. I love him so much and what if losing this foundation of his belief causes him to change his morals? He is a very MORAL man. You hardly EVER see a man as moral as he is. He won't even watch TV because of all the vulgarity and uncovered women! He never flirts -- never. He never cusses. He never drinks alcohol or looks at women.
I don't want him to change. I feel like I have hurt him.
(
My husband and I had a very difficult discussion about the Trinity last night. We had discussed it a couple of times last week but not gotten too deeply into it. Then last night while we were having our regular Bible study, he brought the excerpt in Matthew where Jesus is praying before they come to take him away to be crucified. When he read it, I could tell he thought that the scripture we were reading proved that Jesus was God. But it clearly proved that Jesus was NOT God.
When I said that he started talking and talking and talking and I said, "Please, stick to the scripture. Forget everything you've been told and look at these worlds rationally, from a purely intellectual standpoint and read what they actually say. Read the words and not all the suppositions between the lines that you've heard all your life. Just read these words."
We read it again and again and he continued to say it proved that Jesus was God but eventually his voice faltered and I could tell that he was seeing the words for the first time.
In that passage Jesus is praying to God. Why would he pray to God if he WAS God? In that passage Jesus tells God that he is ready to come to Him. He tells him that he has spread His name to the people that God sent him to, just as God instructed him to do and that those people did believe that he was sent by God. Why would he send him if he WAS him? Why would he tell him, "I've done the work you sent me to do" if he WAS God.
Then we went over the part where he says, "I am in you and you are in me" to God. Then Jesus says, "We are one." And I pointed out that my husband and I say those same things about each other. Don't we? I never say that I AM my husband but I speak for him, I sign his name legally, I represent him where ever I go. When people see me they see him and say, "Look, there's L----'s wife." Then Jesus goes on to say that all the apostles and every person in the future that believes he was sent by God will also be as one JUST THE SAME AS HE AND GOD ARE ONE.
So I said, "So by this logic every person who believes Jesus was sent by God is also God."
Then I showed him the scripture in Matthew where a person comes up to Jesus and calls him "Good Master." Jesus says to that person, "Why do you call me good?! There is only ONE GOOD and that is God. If you want to see him -- keep his commandments."
Now that is clear proof that the doctrine of the Trinity is not scriptural according to the Christian Bible.
The point is that my husband fell into despair. He kept frantically searching through the Bible and then he started crying. He said, What am I supposed to do NOW? How can I preach NOW? What can I tell the people NOW -- a LIE? Everything I've ever believed in is based on this.
Then he said, "Well I'm going to find out...." and I said, If you are going to ask people, ask people other than the ones who will tell you what you want to hear. Don't pull out scriptures that can BE CONSTRUED as supporting this theory of the the Triune God. Show me Biblical proof. I don't want to hear anybody's opinion.
It was very difficult and sad. I felt so guilty, like I had torn down the foundation of his life!!! He was so shaken... torn up. And I felt like it was my fault. At that moment that I saw his pain I wanted to take it all back. It scared me because I don't want him to change. I love him so much and what if losing this foundation of his belief causes him to change his morals? He is a very MORAL man. You hardly EVER see a man as moral as he is. He won't even watch TV because of all the vulgarity and uncovered women! He never flirts -- never. He never cusses. He never drinks alcohol or looks at women.
I don't want him to change. I feel like I have hurt him.
(Caroline, your post brought tears to my eyes with the understanding, courage and tact that you have displayed. I sense that your husband is in a state of spiritual shock and that within a few short hours he has come to clearly see the scriptures for the first time while you must have had a much longer time to contemplate and assimilate these life-changing realizations. Your husband is blessed beyond measure to have someone who loves him and has a relationship that is conducive to his really contemplating that the foundation that he has built his life upon may be built on shifting sand. If his foundation is built upon solid rock, then you have done him no harm. If his foundation is built upon sinking sand, isn't it better to know that now rather than when the storm comes (Judgement Day).
caroline
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Oh... thank you both so much. I tried to tell my husband that our belief in Jesus as being sent by God has not moved and never has to. That the things that are falling away are just opinions of men that we've heard all our lives -- not the true word of God and not God Himself.
One other thing for Christians to think about when you begin to question some of the things you've been told -- how did Jesus say for us to pray? Did he say to pray in the name of the father-son-holyspirit? No, he said pray like this: Our father who are in heaven -- hallowed by THY name... THY kingdom come THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven... give us...for THINE is the kingdom and the power and glory forever, amen.
Jesus gives us an example of how to pray and he does NOT say to pray to him. Jesus never says that he IS God and that we should worship him.
I just want my husband to realize that the only things that are being shaken are the constructions of men. But our faith in God is not threatened.
I think what he is going to do is go to all the writings of preachers and sermons and try to support the Trinity. I am not going to debate it with him any more. I just love him too much. God has to help him come to terms with this.
Oh I feel so sad. But it doesn't seem right to feel so sad if your on the right path???
One other thing for Christians to think about when you begin to question some of the things you've been told -- how did Jesus say for us to pray? Did he say to pray in the name of the father-son-holyspirit? No, he said pray like this: Our father who are in heaven -- hallowed by THY name... THY kingdom come THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven... give us...for THINE is the kingdom and the power and glory forever, amen.
Jesus gives us an example of how to pray and he does NOT say to pray to him. Jesus never says that he IS God and that we should worship him.
I just want my husband to realize that the only things that are being shaken are the constructions of men. But our faith in God is not threatened.
I think what he is going to do is go to all the writings of preachers and sermons and try to support the Trinity. I am not going to debate it with him any more. I just love him too much. God has to help him come to terms with this.
Oh I feel so sad. But it doesn't seem right to feel so sad if your on the right path???
caroline
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Interesting. I'm not officially a Muslim. I am seeking the truth. I believe that God is the only God and He alone is worthy of praise and worship. I also believe that Muhammed was a prophet and messenger sent by God. But I don't agree with all the beliefs of Islam. Does that make me Muslim? I don't know.
I just don't know...
caroline
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Sister Janann, thank you for that link. I requested a copy of the Quran. They said they have an overwhelming request for Qurans right now so it will take a month or so.
Interesting that their requests for Qurans in the US is OVERWHELMING.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, especially in the US. Even with all the media smear...
Hmmm...
Interesting that their requests for Qurans in the US is OVERWHELMING.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, especially in the US. Even with all the media smear...
Hmmm...
UmmSqueakster
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It can be increadibly disheartening to lose your faith in something, especially when it was a major part of your life. It's kind of like the foundation of a house being ripped away - what does the house have left to stand on? It's a scary transition, and the house is very unstable while you lay a new foundation.
In Islam, when we feel uncertain about something, or before we make a big decision, we make a prayer called Istikhara. While it wouldn't pray the 2 rakat (units) of salat, it couldn't hurt to make the dua (supplication) that is said after the salat.
In Islam, when we feel uncertain about something, or before we make a big decision, we make a prayer called Istikhara. While it wouldn't pray the 2 rakat (units) of salat, it couldn't hurt to make the dua (supplication) that is said after the salat.
UmmSqueakster
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Yes, if there's one flaw in Muhammad Asad's translation, it's that he errs on the side of logic, and discounts mystery and miracles. I recently finished his Road to Mecca, and that same view is present there as well. Saudi Aramco did a kind of summary of his autobiography, if anyone is interested in learning about him. Fascinating man.
ABWAN
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Interestingly in Islam, every muslim says the below verses at least 17 times a day:
1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
You can find online versions of the Quran in many websites. www.islamicity.com and www.searchtruth.com have different translations. If you need a hardcopy, I can send you one if you want.
Caroline, take heart. I think that it is entirely reasonable for you to feel sad and perhaps confused right now. Your whole life that you were once comfortable with and were confident it was based on the Truth is "up for grabs", so to speak. I am certain that you love your husband deeply and that you hate to see the pain and turmoil that he must be in now. You are on the verge of what I know of as a "paradigm shift" from which a new world will open to you that is full of discovery, challenges and obstacles. I pray for your continued courage and that God continue to guide you and your husband to Islam - submission to the Will of God as revealed through Prophet Muhammad.