Iraq Prepares "Final" Battle with Al-Qaeda in Iraq

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Brother, I told you, I will not argue with you. I believe your views and understanding are totally outside the folds of Islam.

Wasalam,
Hana

You two should not do this. Hana Aku, it isn't for you to judge because you're not a soldier and every religion says it's wrong to kill... but they ALL make exceptions for War. This is a very complex issue concerning what it lawful during a time of war. Palestine was invaded and having lost a few battles with the state that is called Israel, does not remove the grounds for the War. Palestinian innocents were killed. Muslim soldiers call it an eye for an eye and American soldiers call it collateral damage... but they each understand the principle.

Anyway, this is a matter for scholars who are well studied in legal warfare. It isn't for any of us to decide.

The Ninth Scribe
 
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You two should not do this. Hana Aku, it isn't for you to judge because you're not a soldier and every religion says it's wrong to kill... but they ALL make exceptions for War. This is a very complex issue concerning what it lawful during a time of war. Palestine was invaded and having lost a few battles with the state that is called Israel, does not remove the grounds for the War. Palestinian innocents were killed. Muslim soldiers call it an eye for an eye and American soldiers call it collateral damage... but they each understand the principle.

Anyway, this is a matter for scholars who are well studied in legal warfare. It isn't for any of us to decide.

The Ninth Scribe

It takes a scholar to decide what is right or wrong?
 
You two should not do this. Hana Aku, it isn't for you to judge because you're not a soldier and every religion says it's wrong to kill... but they ALL make exceptions for War. This is a very complex issue concerning what it lawful during a time of war. Palestine was invaded and having lost a few battles with the state that is called Israel, does not remove the grounds for the War. Palestinian innocents were killed. Muslim soldiers call it an eye for an eye and American soldiers call it collateral damage... but they each understand the principle.

Anyway, this is a matter for scholars who are well studied in legal warfare. It isn't for any of us to decide.

The Ninth Scribe

Gimme a break.
 
.... Muslim soldiers call it an eye for an eye and American soldiers call it collateral damage... but they each understand the principle.

The Ninth Scribe

Everyone knows what an "eye for an eye" means. It's from Exodus. It's translated from Hebrew. The use in this context is, therefore, somewhat amusing. Your equation of that expression with the phrase "collateral damage" is either ignorant or purposely offensive. I am guessing the latter, but I could be wrong.
 
What, did you think these Muslim armies were run by the soldiers? Who do you think commands them?

The Ninth Scribe

I know that you believe otherwise, but the actions by those fighting in these wars do not appear islamic to me, and I hope you arent saying that Allah is the one commanding them... I know that Allah would never command anyone to commit suicide or kill a single civilian or fellow muslim. It is very simply put in the Quran, to try to decifer it to fit ones own agenda is wrong and against the will of Allah. No sense in arguing though, which is why I agree with Hana_Aku.....we will all know in the end though

Peace
 
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The soldiers don't have a choice. And they don't trust anyone anymore. The ones who signed as National Guard (local service here) were sent to Iraq and one of my daughter's friends was shipped out a month ago. They don't care about the politicians, or who is right or who is wrong. They care about trying to stay alive through it all. Not all of them, but a lot of them... and unfortunately, there's no way the Mujahideen can tell the difference. It's very nasty... but we're stuck with the reality.

So at the time those soldiers were told that they would be send down to Iraq, would they be forced to if refusing? Are they forced to drive the humvee while holding up the M15? You see I cant agree with you here, for its not like they will be prisoned for 10 years or executed if they refuse to follow their orders.

Back in Iraq you would be executed for the smallest things, but in america and the west your not going to be prisoned for 10 years or executed if you refuse to do as your told to do. The way I see it those soldiers have chosen to fight in Iraq.

I myself tried to join the Air Force back in 1985 because they promised to pay for college tuition if I signed up for a two year deal. Knowing I was a woman competing in a man's field, I wanted to make sure I had a buffet of talents that would blow their minds... but they turned me down because I had children. I was so upset, I actually got mad at God, because there was just no way they could have said no to all that talent. But I've since learned that everything happens for a reason and there isn't a day that goes by now that I don't kiss the ground and thank God for messing that up, because I don't have to follow orders.

The Ninth Scribe

Well regardless of the reasons that one would join the army, your still chosing it. As a human I feel sorry for those good soldiers who die such as some one as you probably, but as a soldier I dont feel sorry at all because you attacked my country and your one of the many wheels driving the Bush vehicle.
 
These insurgents, Hamas, al-Qaida and what there may be left are not fighting in the name of god or for the sake of god, they are fighting for the sake of their people, for the sake of muslims, this is political, it has nothing to do with religion other than being 2 worlds with different religions fighting each other.
 
So at the time those soldiers were told that they would be send down to Iraq, would they be forced to if refusing? Are they forced to drive the humvee while holding up the M15? You see I cant agree with you here, for its not like they will be prisoned for 10 years or executed if they refuse to follow their orders.

Back in Iraq you would be executed for the smallest things, but in america and the west your not going to be prisoned for 10 years or executed if you refuse to do as your told to do. The way I see it those soldiers have chosen to fight in Iraq.


Well regardless of the reasons that one would join the army, your still chosing it. As a human I feel sorry for those good soldiers who die such as some one as you probably, but as a soldier I dont feel sorry at all because you attacked my country and your one of the many wheels driving the Bush vehicle.

What is Al-qaeda doing for the middle east? What are these forces doing other than blowing up market places, desecrating places of worship, forcing the people to live in fear, destroying infrastructure and causing the US troops to stay longer? They certainly arent putting any dent in the American military, you are talking about a military with 2 million active duty personell, whats their death count up to now? 5k maybe? I dont even really keep track because the number is so insignificant, what do we have maybe 20k injured? What is the goal of this terrorist group that you seem to support? To drive the US out of Iraq? To drive them from Afghanistan? To "wipe Israel from the map"? What is their purpose and what have they accomplished? It isnt even a real war, our soldier are policing Iraq to try and protect the innocents from idiots with their hands tied to the wheel of an exploding truck, and how do you police that? You cant, so if victory for these terrorist groups in the M.E. is being able to successfully kill themselves and 50 other non combatants, then congratulations, you win, you are the best I have ever seen at it. If victory is getting rid of Israel, then sorry for your luck, because you arent even fighting in the right place! If victory is controlling Iraq, then sorry for you because the Iraqis join in higher number every day to drive these terrorist morons from their land, and they are fighting on the side of US troops! If victory is taking back Afghanistan, then good luck because there are barely any troops there and they have managed to keep the Taliban away from office.

What is the goal here? I dont support the war in Iraq, I wish the US troops were not there, but those people have to have support and help against this senseless violence, because our country created certain conditions. It is a moral obligation. Again, what is the goal? How is it being attained? Who is being oppressed? By whom are they directly oppressed? If these are too many questions please just say, I am just trying to get some insight into your way of thinking because quite frankly it astonishes me
 
Well regardless of the reasons that one would join the army, your still chosing it. As a human I feel sorry for those good soldiers who die such as some one as you probably, but as a soldier I dont feel sorry at all because you attacked my country and your one of the many wheels driving the Bush vehicle.

Yes, they would go to prison if they deserted. Personally, I would have chosen prison before attacking Afghanistan and Iraq. Fortunately for me, I was spared all that. No, I don't blame you for the way you feel. I doubt anyone with half a heart would blame you for the way you feel. It is your duty to defend your country, both in the religion and in the political institution, which I'm not sure is really any different. My prayers are with you.

The Ninth Scribe
 
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What is Al-qaeda doing for the middle east? What are these forces doing other than blowing up market places, desecrating places of worship, forcing the people to live in fear, destroying infrastructure and causing the US troops to stay longer?

al-Qaida have never blown up markets, this is a corrupt thing that the shia government keeps making up when ever a attack takes place in a sunni neighborhood, and ofcourse america agree's on it even though no evidence is found. The shia government blaims al-Qaida for everything in order to save the asses of the shia millits who are fighting and killing sunnis in the middle.

Al-Qaida attacked a shia mosque a few years ago, but nobody ever mentions why they did so. The same shia mosque was home to hundreds of shia millits who weekly broke into sunni mosques in the sunni neighborhoods, kidnap the imam and burn down the mosque, and guess what they do with the sunni imam after having kidnapped him? They have never destroyed any iraqi building in such, they only attack government buildings and military buildings.

People in Iraq are afraid of al-Qaida not because of their name, but because they dont know them. Iraqi's know each other, but they dont know a bunch of foreign fighters, at least the people dont but the millits and insurgents on the other hand know them quite well, especially the sunni millits are in fact supporting al-Qaida, but they have a bit of a conflict today due to the shias in the south.

It is the shia millits who bomb do all this suicide bombing in the middle of the streets, and and as revenge some sunni's do the same, which is ofcourse also wrong. But as I said; Al-Qaida are not the ones to blaim for these civilian suicide killing.

They certainly arent putting any dent in the American military, you are talking about a military with 2 million active duty personell, whats their death count up to now? 5k maybe? I dont even really keep track because the number is so insignificant, what do we have maybe 20k injured? What is the goal of this terrorist group that you seem to support? To drive the US out of Iraq? To drive them from Afghanistan? To "wipe Israel from the map"? What is their purpose and what have they accomplished?

They certainly are killing american soldiers daily and casuing alot of harm to the shia regime and not least america. The american government claims the death count to be just around 5k, but who the hell believes them? Why on earth would they give the real number, if it was lets say 10.000+? Such number being officially recognized will just make the al-Qaida and the insurgents to look stronger and america weaker. Only a fool would give the real number of american deaths.

al-Qaida has offered peace to america and the rest of the west so many times, but each time they have bin ignored.
America are taking over every single anti-israeli nation on this planet, Saddam was against israel what happend to him?

Tell me one arab leader that is strongly against israel today, there arent many left because they have all bin removed and replaces with american and western allies, we call them the betrayers. The leaders that are against israel all happend to be hated by the west and america, and they all rule a country that is awaiting a western or american invasion.

al-Qaida's goal is to kill and harm americans as much as possible til the point of where they have fully left the islamic nations.

I fully support the insurgents in Iraq, but I dont support the 9/11. Not really because of the people who died but because the strike caused much more harm to the muslims than what it did any good for, so I agree with you when you say "what have they acomplished?".

We all have the same dream, but al-Qaida is trying to make that dream reality through a ineffective way that does not seem to be working.

It isnt even a real war, our soldier are policing Iraq to try and protect the innocents from idiots with their hands tied to the wheel of an exploding truck, and how do you police that? You cant, so if victory for these terrorist groups in the M.E. is being able to successfully kill themselves and 50 other non combatants, then congratulations, you win, you are the best I have ever seen at it.

By "our" soldiers do you mean the americans? My friend from my experience and others I know that most soldiers in Iraq are doing absolutely nothing to rebuild the nation and help the people, instead they walk around and cause harm to iraqi civilians while making fun of them.

America has replaced the Saddam regime with a just as barbaric Shia regime who are supporting the civilian suicide bombing in the sunni neighborhoods.
So how can you say that the american soldiers are protecting the iraqi's from civilian suicide bombing, when what they in fact are doing is supporting the people who do so everyday.

You clearly dont know anything about these "terrorist" groups, who you believe to be al-Qaida, believing that they are the ones who keep suicide bombing civilians. You need to know the ideology of these "terrorists", many americans have done so and guess what they are doing now.

If victory is getting rid of Israel, then sorry for your luck, because you arent even fighting in the right place! If victory is controlling Iraq, then sorry for you because the Iraqis join in higher number every day to drive these terrorist morons from their land, and they are fighting on the side of US troops! If victory is taking back Afghanistan, then good luck because there are barely any troops there and they have managed to keep the Taliban away from office.

You arent fighting in the right place but your fighting the right enemy, your fighting the fundamental of israel; America. Remove America and there will be no israel! Not to mention that enough people are already fighting against Israel.

Victory is not to controle Iraq, victory is to stop the american imperialism inside of the islamic nations. Only the shia iraqi's are against al-Qaida, the sunni's arent! But currently as I mentioned above, some sunni millits do currently have a bit of a problem with al-Qaida, because of al-Qaida being the enemies of america, and themselves getting military support from america in order to protect the sunni neighborhoods and prevent shia millits from entering and killing sunni's. (this is a complicated conflict but I can explain if you wish).

The Kurds do not care since they arent iraqi, the shias only support america because america have given Iraq to a shia regime, but the sunni's? The sunni's in Iraq HATE the marines, but thanks to the shia regime the sunni's are in need of american military support in order to protect themselves from the shia millits entering the sunni neighborhoods to kill sunni civilians. This is what makes people believe that sunni's are allied with america, but in fact they arent, they have no other choice as it stands today!


What is the goal here? I dont support the war in Iraq, I wish the US troops were not there, but those people have to have support and help against this senseless violence, because our country created certain conditions. It is a moral obligation. Again, what is the goal? How is it being attained? Who is being oppressed? By whom are they directly oppressed? If these are too many questions please just say, I am just trying to get some insight into your way of thinking because quite frankly it astonishes me


I dont know if I support it or not, what the americans have brought to Iraq is equal to the pain Saddam brought just to give you an idea of how succesful they have bin. I thank america for having removed the Saddam regime but ever since that they have done nothing good to Iraq.

The violence was brought to Iraq, it wasent there before and who do you think brought it to Iraq? No it wasent al-Qaida.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The goal now for the "terrorists" is to harm the troops and put as much pressur as possible on america, in order to change the mind of the americans back home. In order to make the americans realise that america is not spreading democratism but instead dictatorship.

Make them realise that israel is wrong, make them realise that america's support to israel and not least to the arab dictators is wrong! Make them realise that this is what al-Qaida is against, remove all this and there will be no al-Qaida, no future 9/11's and no future war between the west and the middle east.

If al-Qaida and the insurgents do nothing what will the americans believe? They will start believing that what ever america is doing in the world must be the right thing, they will start supporting israel even more and they will start thinking that america is saving the whole world. Without al-Qaida, people would think that muslims actually support the arab leaders, support israel, and support america, but that is far from the truth.

Make them realise that america is wrong!
 
Gimme a break.

Hmm... odd kind of peace. So if someone tries to steal your house, you'd let them because... they're willing to fight you for it... and you're not?

Then only the a******* like Bush would rule the world.

The Ninth Scribe
 
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