Debate: Athiest's VS Christians VS Muslim

[Skavau]

okey since no muslim seem to be here debating...ME IS HERE!!!!

Hello.

FIRST: to athiests..and agnostics: You don't need to see something to believe it...you cant see air and you believe it you cant see the core of the earth or the sun yet you believe it...

There are other means of percieving things rather than just 'vision'. You hugely underestimate humanity. We are able to measure the air through other means than trying to see it. In fact, we do it all the time through weather reports.

And yes we do see the sun. Did you perchance look out of your window at any point during the day once in your life?

why cant you believe something has created all of the things we see and use today?

Because I am unconvinced that something created all of the things that we see and use today. It is quite simple. Why can't you believe in Thor? Because you are unconvinced of Thor's existence.

Where do you think u came frum? ur mum..then what about her? where she came frum? her mum and soooo and soo on...BUT what about the first person on earth? who is that?? where did they come from?

The first person (as in human) came through evolution.

how did this all begin? these are all the question alot of people never anser or ask! WHY??
answer please?

You realise also that a lot of scientists are in fact asking about the origin of life on Earth and are trying to actively find out the origin of life here on Earth. Your presumption that no-one asks that is completely false.

Abiogenesis is a large topic.

and please NO goofy answers!!!!

Define 'goofy'.

 

[truemuslim]

Allah the Greatest created everything, it was all good everyone was going to go to heavan...but then iblis betrayed allah cuz jealousy of adam...and allah want to see which of his creations are going to be the ones who will not be tempted by the shaitan..allah loves all his creations even those who dont love him...but the devil will TRY to show all of allahs creations the WRONG way teach us bad things tempt us to do it...that probably doesnt answer ur questions...but i got more

A painter, if we are to draw a similitude on a lower level, who tells you that he is a painter, if you ask him where are his paintings and he replies I don’t have any. What kind of painter is this? The concept of a painter who doesn’t paint, there is some thing not quite gelling together here, of course Allah is beyond this. But if we are to understand on the simplest level, the two go together. The perfection of a painter lies in his paintings. His quality and his ability to paint, is manifest in his paintings. And Allah, beyond all that, as creator, this quality of creation is manifest in the creation itself. Allah didn’t create out of a need. No, the fact that he is the creator, is manifest in the creation.
Allah has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.

But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. Allah did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.

Yes, Allah is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.

Allah does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.



Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, Allah. Every act done according to Allah's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and Allah is in no need. The Qur’an says what means:

*{O mankind! It is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich [Free of all wants and needs], Worthy of all praise.}* (Fatir 35:15)​

We need Allah to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power. A prophetic tradition reads:

“O Allah, I seek refuge in You for Your pleasure and against Your wrath and in Your forgiveness and against Your punishment and in You from You. I cannot praise You as You can praise Yourself.” (Reported by Muslim, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah.)

 

[truemuslim]

And yes we do see the sun. Did you perchance look out of your window at any point during the day once in your life?

I SAID THE EARTH CORE OR THE SUN (AS IN THE SUNS CORE)

The first person (as in human) came through evolution.

why couldnt we all come frum evolution?

Because I am unconvinced that something created all of the things that we see and use today. It is quite simple. Why can't you believe in Thor? Because you are unconvinced of Thor's existence.

okey i dunt even wanna know who thor is..kk

Define 'goofy'.

ridiculous; silly; wacky; nutty: a goofy little hat.

hehe im kiddin... i mean like those other posts i usually get...(not urs)

 

[Whatsthepoint]

A painter, if we are to draw a similitude on a lower level, who tells you that he is a painter, if you ask him where are his paintings and he replies I don’t have any. What kind of painter is this? The concept of a painter who doesn’t paint, there is some thing not quite gelling together here, of course Allah is beyond this. But if we are to understand on the simplest level, the two go together. The perfection of a painter lies in his paintings. His quality and his ability to paint, is manifest in his paintings. And Allah, beyond all that, as creator, this quality of creation is manifest in the creation itself. Allah didn’t create out of a need. No, the fact that he is the creator, is manifest in the creation.

So God does things because he can?
Why do his abilities need to be manifest?

 

[truemuslim]

Allah Almighty is infinite.....and since we, as humans are limited in understanding, we can only just begin to grasp His All-encompassing, All-pervading, All-powerful nature.

 

[Heera Singh]

Your example is flawed in two areas. We detect things not just through seeing things. Moreover, even if bitterness and sweetness were fundamentally undetectable - it does not validate the position of God's existence.

That example itself was to be used as analogy that, just because you don't see or feel something, it does not mean that its not there.

See, you already presume God in your own world view. This is utterly meaningless to me. 'Lord' (or more broadly God) is just what is alleged to exist according to Theists. It is not my claim, it is the claim of theists. Under my world view it is nothing more than a concept, and an incoherent one.

This is religious rhetoric. It is in blunt terms, completely and utterly meaningless to me.

Thats fine, to each his/her own.

You have yet to demonstrate this 'Glorious Creator'. You also misunderstood what I mean by incoherency and meaningless in the definitions of God.

I don't need to demonstrate anything. Look in the mirror, you are also a creation, of the Creator. I'm not really trying to 'convince' you that there is a God, as you seem to be very set in your belief, so it would be useless. I'm simply stating how one can believe that there IS a God. Perhaps my example was not very good. Ah well, sorry for wasting your time then.

Blesss!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Allah Almighty is infinite.....and since we, as humans are limited in understanding, we can only just begin to grasp His All-encompassing, All-pervading, All-powerful nature.

Lol...
Why do you believe the trinity is false just because we, mere humans, cannot fully grasp it?

 

[truemuslim]

Lol...
Why do you believe the trinity is false just because we, mere humans, cannot fully grasp it?

there are things in life (beyond life actually) that no one can see its too much for the human or anything to be able to experience..so yeah...

(ah ur talking as a ghost aint u)

 

[Skavau]

That example itself was to be used as analogy that, just because you don't see or feel something, it does not mean that its not there.

Okay. Agreed.

So?

I don't need to demonstrate anything. Look in the mirror, you are also a creation, of the Creator.

This is supposed to be a debate topic in a Comparative Religion subforum. When you make claims, do not be surprised or expect not to be asked to demonstrate your claims.

Moreover, please kindly demonstrate how I am a 'creation' and demonstrate the existence of this creator please.

 

[Skavau]

I SAID THE EARTH CORE OR THE SUN (AS IN THE SUNS CORE)

You didn't specify the sun 'core', you just said 'sun'. Why are you typing in capital letters?

why couldnt we all come frum evolution?

We did. We are all the result of the effects of evolution.

okey i dunt even wanna know who thor is..kk

You obviously do not understand the example or the point I was trying to make. I am unconvinced of the existence of Allah as you are unconvinced of the existence of Thor.

When you understand why you do not believe in Thor, you will understand why I do not believe in Allah.

 

[Heera Singh]

Skavau, u said

Moreover, please kindly demonstrate how I am a 'creation' and demonstrate the existence of this creator please.

but then in the next post you said

We did. We are all the result of the effects of evolution.

I think those are contradicting statements.

 

[Skavau]

Skavau, u said



but then in the next post you said



I think those are contradicting statements.

Where is the contradiction?

 

[Heera Singh]

evolution is creation

 

[truemuslim]

You didn't specify the sun 'core', you just said 'sun'. Why are you typing in capital letters?

you cant see the core of the earth or the sun yet you believe it...

I SAIIIDD (getting really ticked off now..) ^^^
its a simple mistake i added 'the' because i am typing and not caring bout grammar...kk..oh and i kept caps on so u can read it right

We did. We are all the result of the effects of evolution.

right....now that is a RESULT ..BUT why cant we all be from DIRECT evolution not just a result???? we got parents now dont we? meaning they arent from evolution..they got parents and so on... now why do we got parents when we from and evolution??? (DO NOT SAY TO PAY FOR US!)

When you understand why you do not believe in Thor, you will understand why I do not believe in Allah.

okey i cant understand because i dunt KNOW who the hek thor is ... and there are many things like miracles and all supporting the proof of allah existing..

how else do u think we all "appeared" here??





p.s. I THINK I SHUD CHANGE THE TITLE NOW.... I WILL

 

[ummsara1108]

THE TRINITY. God is revealed to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence, or being.

There is much talk about the Trinity, but yet it only refers to the Trinity in the bible, it doesn't acually state the word Trinity, why is that if it's so important?


Hi truemuslim i'm back.....lol....debater here

 

[truemuslim]

^ Yay Im So Happy Now Im Not Alone!!!woohoo Thanks Sis!!!!

 

[Skavau]

evolution is creation

No it isn't.

I SAIIIDD (getting really ticked off now..) ^^^
its a simple mistake i added 'the' because i am typing and not caring bout grammar...kk..oh and i kept caps on so u can read it right

I can read without full caps needed.

right....now that is a RESULT ..BUT why cant we all be from DIRECT evolution not just a result????

Eh?

we got parents now dont we? meaning they arent from evolution..they got parents and so on... now why do we got parents when we from and evolution???

Do you actually understand how evolution works? At all? The above demonstrates in all honesty, you have not the slightest clue. Evolution is the change of inherited traits of a population to a next. Inherited are expressions of genes which are passed on to the offspring through reproduction. In our case, our parents pass on their genes to us.

(DO NOT SAY TO PAY FOR US!)

I wouldn't. I have no idea what such an answer would mean.

okey i cant understand because i dunt KNOW who the hek thor is ... and there are many things like miracles and all supporting the proof of allah existing..

What 'miracles', precisely? How are they any different than miracles claimed by Christianity?

how else do u think we all "appeared" here??

I don't think we just 'appeared' here. That is your projection, not my contention.

 

[ummsara1108]

You didn't specify the sun 'core', you just said 'sun'. Why are you typing in capital letters?


We did. We are all the result of the effects of evolution.


You obviously do not understand the example or the point I was trying to make. I am unconvinced of the existence of Allah as you are unconvinced of the existence of Thor.

When you understand why you do not believe in Thor, you will understand why I do not believe in Allah.

In the number of years the earth has exsisted, I/99% of the people never heard of Thor, who is it and what does it do?

 

[Skavau]

In the number of years the earth has exsisted, I/99% of the people never heard of Thor, who is it and what does it do?

So you've never even heard of Norse Paganism? Or general Viking Mythology?

 

[truemuslim]

I can read without full caps needed.

yeh but then u make the tiniest grammar crap such a big deal

Eh?

*sigh*

Do you actually understand how evolution works? At all? The above demonstrates in all honesty, you have not the slightest clue. Evolution is the change of inherited traits of a population to a next. Inherited are expressions of genes which are passed on to the offspring through reproduction. In our case, our parents pass on their genes to us.

i do and u just dont understand...uh..nothing?

I wouldn't. I have no idea what such an answer would mean.

good

What 'miracles', precisely? How are they any different than miracles claimed by Christianity?

what r the miracles in christianity and i will answer ur question

don't think we just 'appeared' here. That is your projection, not my contention.

nope... ok heres what i got frum u... we came from evolution... BUT where did the trees and earth and planets and air and rain and clouds and food all come from???



*sigh* ...im gonna leave for a sec...(zuhr prayer)