Debate: Athiest's VS Christians VS Muslim

[Grace Seeker]

^ none... im seeking to debate...ok and learn...and about hte copy paste i read all i pasted before i pasted it of course and it seems to be really close to what i already was going to type.. but more info...

also i have some questions for u...and they gonna keep on comin so...

1. Have any of your prayers ever, in actuality, been answered?

2. Is it possible that the devout Catholic, Adolph Hitler, could be in heaven if he had truly repented prior to his death?

3. To what sorts of depravity would you descend if it were proved there was no god?

answer these first?

I'm thinking from the manner of your post that it was directed to me, and not John316, so I'll answer your questions as I am not trying to avoid disagreement. But there is a difference between a genuine debate that requires a mutual exchange of information, and what typically passes for debates in these settings where people just cut and paste other's ideas as if finding them on some website makes them true.

Example your second question:

2. Is it possible that the devout Catholic, Adolph Hitler, could be in heaven if he had truly repented prior to his death?

It assumes facts not previously in evidence nor agreed upon. To my knowledge Hitler was NOT a devout Catholic. Thus, there is no way that I, or anyone else, can answer the question you have posed.

As to your other questions:

1. Have any of your prayers ever, in actuality, been answered?

Yes.

3. To what sorts of depravity would you descend if it were proved there was no god?

I don't know. But if there were no God, then there really wouldn't be any standard by which one could call anything depraved would there? It would just be different than that which was accepted or desired by others.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Christianity goes back to the begining and follows a time line spanding over 2000 years before Jesus, that is why it is used by archaeologist to study ancient history.

Really? I'm a Christian pastor, and in years of seminary classes, pastoring a church, reading my Bible, and doing other forms of study, I have never heard anyone suggest what you have suggested. I think perhaps you are mis-stating something else that you might have met to say instead of what you did. But, I am unclear as to what it might be. Your present statemnt is just patently false. Christianity does not go back to over 2000 years before Jesus. In fact, it doesn't even start during Jesus' lifetime, but shortly aftewards:

Acts 11
25Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

 

[Sheffield]

I'm not muslim but I'll jump in here.

How can you state the bible as truth, when it was compiled years (even decades) after the death of Jesus? there's no way to verify the writings in there to be accurate... and there is enough proof to determine even over the years the bible has been tampered with, and even christians i kno won't refute that claim... so, do you believe God would allow His 'word' to be altered?

Let's say you have kids, and you ask them to write rules on how they should behave in your house.

There intentions are good and they right good rules that are correct in general in their own simplistic way.

Are you going to change those rules?

This is a simplistic debate that could go on endlessly, you either get it or you don't.

 

[truemuslim]

ok grace seeker ... next atheists:

1. Where does all of the incredibly complex information come from that is stored within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself. Someone has to put it there.

2. Isn’t it a bit extreme to assert "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have complete knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe. Maybe God dwells somewhere in the universe you don’t know of or have not been to? Is that possible?

3. Where does all the matter in the universe come from?

im done for now...

 

[Sheffield]

Really? I'm a Christian pastor, and in years of seminary classes, pastoring a church, reading my Bible, and doing other forms of study, I have never heard anyone suggest what you have suggested. I think perhaps you are mis-stating something else that you might have met to say instead of what you did. But, I am unclear as to what it might be. Your present statemnt is just patently false. Christianity does not go back to over 2000 years before Jesus. In fact, it doesn't even start during Jesus' lifetime, but shortly aftewards:

Christianity goes back to the time God created the world and everything in it.

I could go on but I'm not going to, if it's kept short, people will read it.

Your posts are too long, no one reads them. If you have a point to make, summarise it or you will turn people away from the forum out of boredom.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Christianity goes back to the time God created the world and everything in it.

I could go on but I'm not going to, if it's kept short, people will read it.

Your posts are too long, no one reads them. If you have a point to make, summarise it or you will turn people away from the forum out of boredom.

Your opinion.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I for one have always enjoyed Grace Seeker's points of view, even though I rarely agree with them.

Diversity of ideas is what makes boards like this interesting.

 

[ranma1/2]

ok grace seeker ... next atheists:

1. Where does all of the incredibly complex information come from that is stored within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself. Someone has to put it there.

2. Isn’t it a bit extreme to assert "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have complete knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe. Maybe God dwells somewhere in the universe you don’t know of or have not been to? Is that possible?

3. Where does all the matter in the universe come from?

im done for now...

ok true poe.
1 define information.
2 show that unicorns, thor, smurfs, interstellar teapot ect.. dont exists...
of course it should be easier to prove a postitve than a negative.
3 god of the gaps much?

 

[*Hana*]

The scrolls containing the old testament were around before Jesus.

Christianity goes back to the begining and follows a time line spanding over 2000 years before Jesus, that is why it is used by archaeologist to study ancient history.

Prophets before Muhammad are the prophets of Moslems as well, nothing is disputed of Christianity before Muhammad by Muhammad. He the only the last prophet for Muslims, he was preaching about God just as Jesus was.

At least before the Ka'ab anyway.

Errrmmm, Christianity does NOT go back to the beginning of time and not anytime before Jesus. Christians are followers of Christ. They can't follow what never existed. :hmm: Christianity came AFTER Jesus left the earth and in actuality, DURING His time it was considered more a sect of Judaism.

Hana

 

[Gator]

ok grace seeker ... next atheists:

1. Where does all of the incredibly complex information come from that is stored within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself. Someone has to put it there.

From the incredibly complex natural laws. National Enquirer seems to so a good job of creating information. Why does someone have to put it there. Did someone have to physically put a small rock on the bottom of the ocean, or could it have been blown out of a volcano?

2. Isn’t it a bit extreme to assert "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have complete knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe. Maybe God dwells somewhere in the universe you don’t know of or have not been to? Is that possible?

Not in my view. You have to work with the information you have and how your brain processes it and take your best shot. Maybe.

3. Where does all the matter in the universe come from?

Who knows?! Our little brains can barely manage gravity nevermind the mind boggelingly complex physical laws. E=mc^2 and all that. What I think? Possibly the entire amount of energy in the universe actually equals zero (matter, antimatter, gravity, acceleration, etc).

0
0=1-1
0=0.5+0.5-0.5-0.5
0.5=0.5+0.5-0.5
0.25+0.25=2*(0.5)-(0.3+0.2)

Alot of something from nothing (granted the shift in 4).

im done for now...

Hi there. Usual caveat that these are my personal opinions, not any Truth.

Hope this thread gives you a better idea about how I and many of the other atheists think (sometimes the same, sometimes differently).

Thanks.

 

[Grace Seeker]

2 show that unicorns, thor, smurfs, interstellar teapot ect.. dont exists...

Interstellar teapots don't exist?!

Pray tell, what do you call Sagitarious? see The Teapot in Sagittarius.

 

[*Hana*]

Christianity goes back to the time God created the world and everything in it.

I could go on but I'm not going to, if it's kept short, people will read it.

Your posts are too long, no one reads them. If you have a point to make, summarise it or you will turn people away from the forum out of boredom.

You seem to be a new member here, so welcome to LI.

I would strongly recommend you read through some posts to get an idea of how members interact with each other. Grace Seeker has always tried to provide answers to questions with absolute respect and has always participated positively to many threads here.

I also don't agree with Grace Seeker's beliefs, but I don't have to agree with them. Our differences is what allows us to discuss and share our thoughts and ideas. We can also hope Grace Seeker will learn and eventually say the Shahadah! But, if not, at least we have all had the opportunity to learn something and, if nothing else, become more tolerant.

So, we not only have to make sure what we post is accurate to the best of our ability, we have to make sure we always try to discuss in a respectful manner. :sunny:

Hana

 

[Grace Seeker]

Errrmmm, Christianity does NOT go back to the beginning of time and not anytime before Jesus. Christians are followers of Christ. They can't follow what never existed. :hmm: Christianity came AFTER Jesus left the earth and in actuality, DURING His time it was considered more a sect of Judaism.

Hana

During Jesus' time here, it wasn't even a sect. During his time here, it hadn't even formed yet. To the eyes of others, Jesus was just one more itinerate rabbi with a band of followers.

It was after Jesus' ascension that it became first a sect within Judaism, and then later a religion in its own right.

I could evidence that with quotes from the Bible, Josephus, Pliny, and Nero, but I wouldn't want to bore Sheffield. So you'll just have to take my word for it, like he expects us to take his.

 

[جوري]

Interstellar teapots don't exist?!

Pray tell, what do you call Sagitarious? see The Teapot in Sagittarius.

Gene:

that was brill.. :lol:
can't believe you participated in this topic?.. and I can't believe it has actually gone on as long as it did..11-12 pages ..
I am gonna unsubscribe myself in a hurry, but thought your post was great ;D


peace

 

[*Hana*]

During Jesus' time here, it wasn't even a sect. During his time here, it hadn't even formed yet. To the eyes of others, Jesus was just one more itinerate rabbi with a band of followers.

It was after Jesus' ascension that it became first a sect within Judaism, and then later a religion in its own right.

I could evidence that with quotes from the Bible, Josephus, Pliny, and Nero, but I wouldn't want to bore Sheffield. So you'll just have to take my word for it, like he expects us to take his.

I don't disagree with you at all. That's why I said "more of a sect". It was for lack of a better term.

Hana

 

[Sheffield]

Errrmmm, Christianity does NOT go back to the beginning of time and not anytime before Jesus. Christians are followers of Christ. They can't follow what never existed. :hmm: Christianity came AFTER Jesus left the earth and in actuality, DURING His time it was considered more a sect of Judaism.

Hana

Your opinion.

Thanks to Grace Seeker, you are incorrect and have started a pointless debate.

Yes, Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, but Jesus didn't invent a religion, the religion was always there, God was always there, for example Christians believe that Noah went to heaven even though he was around long before Jesus.

The bible goes back thousands of years before Jesus, it's all the same religion of course.

Jesus reminded us of how we should treat one another, if we all followed what Jesus taught, we would live in a very peaceful world.

Jesus showed us not to be afraid to die. He died in a horrific way. And when non Christians mock and show disrespect to him, it is one of the worst things they can do in their life.

 

[Sheffield]

Errrmmm, Christianity does NOT go back to the beginning of time and not anytime before Jesus. Christians are followers of Christ. They can't follow what never existed. :hmm: Christianity came AFTER Jesus left the earth and in actuality, DURING His time it was considered more a sect of Judaism.

Hana

Thanks to Grace Seeker, you are incorrect.

Yes, Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, but Jesus didn't invent a religion, the religion was always there, God was always there, for example Christians believe that Noah went to heaven even though he was around long before Jesus.

The bible goes back thousands of years before Jesus.

Jesus reminded us of how we should treat one another, if we all followed what Jesus taught, we would live in a very peaceful world.

Jesus even showed us not to be afraid to die. He died in a horrific way. And when non Christians mock and show disrespect to him, it is one of the worst things they can do in their life.

 

[*Hana*]

Thanks to Grace Seeker, you are incorrect.

Yes, Christians are followers of Jesus Christ, but Jesus didn't invent a religion, the religion was always there, God was always there, for example Christians believe that Noah went to heaven even though he was around long before Jesus.

The bible goes back thousands of years before Jesus.

Jesus reminded us of how we should treat one another, if we all followed what Jesus taught, we would live in a very peaceful world.

Jesus even showed us not to be afraid to die. He died in a horrific way. And when non Christians mock and show disrespect to him, it is one of the worst things they can do in their life.

Do you have any clue what you're talking about??? Or do you just argue with anyone about everything for the sake of it. READ FIRST DUDE!! Did you see my response to Grace Seeker??

First you say Christianity went back to the beginning of time BEFORE Jesus, now you're babbling about something different. Get an organized thought and come discuss.

Hana

 

[Heera Singh]

Let's say you have kids, and you ask them to write rules on how they should behave in your house.

There intentions are good and they right good rules that are correct in general in their own simplistic way.

Are you going to change those rules?

This is a simplistic debate that could go on endlessly, you either get it or you don't.

This makes absolutely no sense.

You're comparing the 'rules' I (as a regular human being) would give my kids, to that of a Prophet giving to the people (and which is being proclaimed as the word of God). You can't even COMPARE the two, and to do so would be foolish.

Christians believe every man is with Sin. Therefore not all man can be trusted. Therefore, it wouldn't be illogical to say that Man (who is with sin) might have added his OWN words into the bible (since the bible was compiled decades after Jesus' death) to proclaim it that of the Lords (or, that of Jesus for christians, since they think jesus is God). The bible was compiled of stories that were passed down and also many of them not 'written' at the time. And we all kno how stories can have their meanings and words changed over days, let alone deceades. Not to forget, that especially in a time where religious doubt was HUGE, they have added into the Bible that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven, and there is no other way.

Now, again, there is absolutely NO evidence that anything written in the bible was ACTUALLY written by Jesus. In fact, there is evidence AGAINST that fact, as i mentioned earlier, since it's proven that the Bible HAS been altered over time.

 

[john316]

Hana

no offense but your religion is supposed to be a religionof peace. I'm afraid you've lost your peace of mind. I know that there is one thing what you like most about me-my absence.