The Map Of UNITED STATES OF ISLAM!!!

[Fishman]

The operative word there is viking 'LIKE


I have lost interest in this thread otherwise

cheers

Okay then. I'm just completely obsessed with Central Asia...

 

[Keltoi]

Okay then. I'm just completely obsessed with Central Asia...

I feel for you. People obsessed with history, like you and I, tend to get uptight about historical accuracy.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers

Relax!
I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

 

[جوري]

Relax!

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh mazing

I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

well of course they are....

 

[wth1257]

Let's cut through this crap

That would be delightfull if you care to actually participate.

and ask one Q.. do you read anything I post

I have read everything you wrote to me, why you are reluctant to answer questions directly I do not know.

Someone asks you about the conditions of atheists under Islamic rule, you make an obscure refrence rather than specifics. I have asked if you have some text you feel spells out the specifics of shariah law you don't answer, I ask if there is one Islamic state that had ha shariah law you wish to examine you claim non exists, I ask if that include the Prophets rule and you cite some obscure ambiguious prophecy with not context, you vaguely mention some implicity soaicl cast system and now seem to have dropped that.

All the while you have supplimented you ambiguity not with substance but with petty ad hominems and aversions.

or do you have a cluster of pigeonholes that you wish to hurl out without interest in exchange or a quest for learning?

I am not a Muslim and understand I am a guest here, and have been appreciative of the hospitality extended to me, because of my status here and my admitted ignorance I am extremely receptive to correction, I am not, however, particularly receptive to ambiguity.

If you want to have a substantive discussion I'd be delighted to have it.

 

[wth1257]

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers

Would you care to give a specific answer, how will atheists be treated under Islamic law.

simple answer, will they have all the right of Muslims? yes or no

How will someone who is critical of Islam be treated, how would a Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc be treated

 

[جوري]

That would be delightfull if you care to actually participate.



I have read everything you wrote to me, why you are reluctant to answer questions directly I do not know.

You are kidding right? this is coming from the one circumvents every reply to either pose the same question again and again or indites a complete nonsequitur to the discussion!

Someone asks you about the conditions of atheists under Islamic rule, you make an obscure refrence rather than specifics. I have asked if you have some text you feel spells out the specifics of shariah law you don't answer, I ask if there is one Islamic state that had ha shariah law you wish to examine you claim non exists, I ask if that include the Prophets rule and you cite some obscure ambiguious prophecy with not context, you vaguely mention some implicity soaicl cast system and now seem to have dropped that.

1- I'd think the 'obsecure reference which happened to the forth kalif is enough of a specific?
2- you want specific text, here is a million, I am not going to summarize entire law books in a paragraph only to have you be displeased with it



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http://islamicbookstore.com/books-h...-jurisprudence-and-criminal-law-in-islam.html

3- indeed no shari3a states exist.. how would you like to begin the discussion?
did a shari3a state exist, I believe I have listed several, up to mid ottoman empire!

All the while you have supplimented you ambiguity not with substance but with petty ad hominems and aversions.

That seems to be an adequate assessment of someone who speaks on behalf of all opressed Muslim women, yet apparently at the same time feels emasculated by one!

I am not a Muslim and understand I am a guest here, and have been appreciative of the hospitality extended to me, because of my status here and my admitted ignorance I am extremely receptive to correction, I am not, however, particularly receptive to ambiguity.

If you want to have a substantive discussion I'd be delighted to have it.

I don't know where your base line is.. you seem to get it from the same websites as the rest of the atheists and islamophobes?
I can't begin nor have interest in combating pre-conceived notions!
Until your question style evolves a little, or the subject matter isn't along the lines of jingoistic platitudes can we have this discussion

cheers


cheers

 

[جوري]

Would you care to give a specific answer, how will atheists be treated under Islamic law.

simple answer, will they have all the right of Muslims? yes or no

How will someone who is critical of Islam be treated, how would a Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris etc be treated

Did you read anything at all about Maimondes as I had posted?
when he was expelled from Spain, he lived under Islamic rule, wrote a book entitled 'The ills of the sons of Ishmael' meant to mock the Muslims who have taken him under their wings, he was left be, didn't lose his head or position for that matter.. merely a book rebuttal was written to refute him entitled 'the accolades of the sons of Ishmeal'

Now if I didn't give you a specific example you'd riot for an example, if I give you an example, you are unhappy it not bearing a connection with the subject..

surely the above is distilled enough so you don't have to God forbid purchase a book and read and in language even a three year old can understand?... There a nemesis of Islam left to write an anti-Islamic book under Islamic rule... and not denied or restrained...would you like it written on clouds-- or are you just unhappy because it doesn't flow with your idea of crazed men chanting on the streets and oppressed women?

cheers

 

[wth1257]

Did you read anything at all about Maimondes as I had posted?
when he was expelled from Spain, he lived under Islamic rule, wrote a book entitled 'The ills of the sons of Ishmael' meant to mock the Muslims who have taken him under their wings, he was left be, didn't lose his head or position for that matter.. merely a book rebuttal was written to refute him entitled 'the accolades of the sons of Ishmeal'

You have said there has never been a truely Islamic state I beleive, however you have cited this as a case study of how religious minorities would be treated under Islamic rule, does this mean we can use Islamic states as precidents for how their would be treated in the future scinario?

Now if I didn't give you a specific example you'd riot for an example, if I give you an example, you are unhappy it not bearing a connection with the subject..

Not really, I have only asked what Islam mandates for religious minorities. So far you STILL haven't given any specifics, you have cited a long list of books and pointed to one man, if you want to open up the gates to allow past treatment of religious minorities that's fine, if you don't then present the actual teachings.

surely the above is distilled enough so you don't have to God forbid purchase a book and read and in language even a three year old can understand?

:?

... There a nemesis of Islam left to write an anti-Islamic book under Islamic rule... and not denied or restrained

Except according to you there has never been a state that TRUELY followed Islamic law.

...would you like it written on clouds-- or are you just unhappy because it doesn't flow with your idea of crazed men chanting on the streets and oppressed women?

I have no such image of Islam or Muslims, who yur are so obsessed with presenting this incoherant argument while insinuating I'm an anti-Islamic biggot I do not know.

You claim that no state has truely has Shariah law, then point to this scholar as proof of the good treatment of religious minorities under Islamic law, except according to you the state, indeed no state, has been truely Islamic, I'm sorry does anyone else find that silly?

I have had no problem saying that religious minorities under Islamic rule received much better treatment than religious minorities under Christendom, I have absolutly no problem saying that, I have no problem saying that MUhammed is something of a hearo of mine, that Islam is a beautifull religion and the Koran is a beautifull text, I ONLY have a problem with people who wish the impliment Shariah law on the entire globe.

I ask you ONE simple question you have yet to answer,

would non-Muslims, ALL non MUslims, have perfect equality with Muslims under Shariah law.

Perhape I am misunderstanding you, in which case, simply correct me.

cheers

You insinuate I'm an anti-Muslim biggot, then say "cheers", kind of strange

 

[wth1257]

You are kidding right? this is coming from the one circumvents every reply to either pose the same question again and again or indites a complete nonsequitur to the discussion!

rawr

1- I'd think the 'obsecure reference which happened to the forth kalif is enough of a specific?

Simply because Ali said it dosen't meake it uncryptic:?

2- you want specific text, here is a million, I am not going to summarize entire law books in a paragraph only to have you be displeased with it

I haven't asked for entire law books condensed, I have asked what Islamic law dictates for non-Muslims

For Books such as Fiqh us Sunnah, Everyday Fiqh etc., please visit the section: Islamic Studies, Courses for Beginners Study of Islamic Faith and Practice




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http://islamicbookstore.com/books-h...-jurisprudence-and-criminal-law-in-islam.html

right, that's clear and specific.

"Well, I don't have time to condense all the law, here are fifty books you cas read"

how about this, give me one specific book you feel represents it and I will read it. I'm completely honest, I'm a broke college student so nothing to expensive please:-[, but if you feel there is any one, or hell two books that represent Islamic law properly I will read them.

3- indeed no shari3a states exist.. how would you like to begin the discussion?
did a shari3a state exist, I believe I have listed several, up to mid ottoman empire!

No, I was under the impression that you were maintaining that no truely Islamic state has ever existed, if this was wrong I'm sorry, as usual just correct me, which state do you feel have properly implimented Islamic law?

That seems to be an adequate assessment of someone who speaks on behalf of all opressed Muslim women, yet apparently at the same time feels emasculated by one!

:?
:?
:?

I don't know where your base line is.. you seem to get it from the same websites as the rest of the atheists and islamophobes?

I'm neither an atheist or an Islamaphobe, by primary source of knoledge of Islam come from Reza Aslan, Akbar Ahmed, the Koran, and Muslims friends.

I can't begin nor have interest in combating pre-conceived notions!

You friend are the one with the preconceived assumption that I am a biggot.

Until your question style evolves a little, or the subject matter isn't along the lines of jingoistic platitudes can we have this discussion

rawr again>.>

cheers


cheers

I don't drink:blind:

 

[Jeremy]

How is the nation of finland an enemy of islam.
Is the whole world an enemy of Islam?

This is simply one of Dr Trax's islamosupremist, Islamofacist posts, and people are accepting it as that the whole world will peacefully see the light of Islam.

"Dr" Trax is talking about coercian and death. Before you cheer, identify his motives.

I would think twice about what you said. I dont know where you are, but here in the states, we do have a thing called Freedom of Religon. It applies to ALL religons. No matter how big or small they may be.

 

[جوري]

You have said there has never been a truely Islamic state I beleive, however you have cited this as a case study of how religious minorities would be treated under Islamic rule, does this mean we can use Islamic states as precidents for how their would be treated in the future scinario?

No, that isn't what I have said, go back and read.. I am pressed for time and can't go back and quote and re-quote you, however, go back a couple of pages, you'll see, you'd asked for an analysis of an EXISTING Islamic state, saudi Arabia or whatever, and I told you a monarchy isn't an Islamic state, currently no Islamic states implementing shari3a law exist! to which you've either out of lack of intellectual acuity or to intentionally playing dumb, decided to state, wasn't there an Islamic state during Mohammed's time, surely I have mentioned before that there were, Rashidun, Abbasaid, Fatimids, Ommayds and Ottomans, and cited you a Hadith on what has become and what is to become of that... Are we clear at this point?

Not really, I have only asked what Islam mandates for religious minorities. So far you STILL haven't given any specifics, you have cited a long list of books and pointed to one man, if you want to open up the gates to allow past treatment of religious minorities that's fine, if you don't then present the actual teachings.

Islam Mandates equality and good treatment.. if nothing else here is an excerpt from the Quran

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ {177}​

[Pickthal 2:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.


You don't want to read books, you don't want specific examples as to you they are not adequate.. if what is written plain to see in the Quran is also difficult to decipher, then there really is no point of this, is there?

Except according to you there has never been a state that TRUELY followed Islamic law.

No, that isn't according to me at all. It is according to you, for even the Hadith I have posted points to starting out with a khilafah rashida our current state of tyranny and ending again in a khilafah rashida.. you see that is how one can tell you don't read, and frankly wish to waste my time on repetition as a rhetorical device perhaps?

I have no such image of Islam or Muslims, who yur are so obsessed with presenting this incoherant argument while insinuating I'm an anti-Islamic biggot I do not know.

I think the dear readers should be left to decipher what they may from what you've written and from what I have clearely presented!

You claim that no state has truely has Shariah law, then point to this scholar as proof of the good treatment of religious minorities under Islamic law, except according to you the state, indeed no state, has been truely Islamic, I'm sorry does anyone else find that silly?

I find YOU indeed very silly.. perhaps this time the writing will remain in your memory for more than a good two second and instead of clangorous insistency on humbug, you'll read for a change!

I have had no problem saying that religious minorities under Islamic rule received much better treatment than religious minorities under Christendom, I have absolutly no problem saying that, I have no problem saying that MUhammed is something of a hearo of mine, that Islam is a beautifull religion and the Koran is a beautifull text, I ONLY have a problem with people who wish the impliment Shariah law on the entire globe.

Shari3a law being implemented on the entire globe will be the choice of the people as that is the prophecy! You need not worry yourself really with things that haven't yet been fulfilled!

I ask you ONE simple question you have yet to answer,
would non-Muslims, ALL non MUslims, have perfect equality with Muslims under Shariah law.

Under Islam yes.. I can't account for individual prejudices anymore than I can under a democratic system!

Perhape I am misunderstanding you, in which case, simply correct me.

I hope I have this time!

You insinuate I'm an anti-Muslim biggot, then say "cheers", kind of strange

I don't tend to have beef with biggots whether you are or aren't one.. I think it rather self-imposed ignorance..

truly to learn one must pick a book, you'll not be pleased with anyone's view otherwise.. Anyone can be biased it is human.. shouldn't you read and draw your own conclusions?

cheers

 

[جوري]

"Well, I don't have time to condense all the law, here are fifty books you cas read"

how about this, give me one specific book you feel represents it and I will read it. I'm completely honest, I'm a broke college student so nothing to expensive please:-[, but if you feel there is any one, or hell two books that represent Islamic law properly I will read them.

Tell me what in specific aspects of Islam are you curious about and I'll try to find you one on line where you don't have to spend any money at all..
Do you want a book on jurisprudence?
legal philsophy
law
there is a great website called kalamullah, which I believe very much covers every aspect of Islam even Islamic medicine ...
and here it is

http://kalamullah.com/books.html


if this isn't adequate, I'll try to find others.. I need to run


peace

 

[wth1257]

No, that isn't what I have said, go back and read.. I am pressed for time and can't go back and quote and re-quote you, however, go back a couple of pages, you'll see, you'd asked for an analysis of an EXISTING Islamic state, saudi Arabia or whatever, and I told you a monarchy isn't an Islamic state, currently no Islamic states implementing shari3a law exist! to which you've either out of lack of intellectual acuity or to intentionally playing dumb, decided to state, wasn't there an Islamic state during Mohammed's time, surely I have mentioned before that there were, Rashidun, Abbasaid, Fatimids, Ommayds and Ottomans, and cited you a Hadith on what has become and what is to become of that... Are we clear at this point?

You highlighted them as instances where religious minorities under religious law received good treatment, I don't think you ever claimed they demonstrated a proper implimentation of Shariah law, if that's what you intended sorry for the confusion

Islam Mandates equality and good treatment.. if nothing else here is an excerpt from the Quran

لَّيْسَ الْبِرَّ أَن تُوَلُّواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ قِبَلَ الْمَشْرِقِ وَالْمَغْرِبِ وَلَـكِنَّ الْبِرَّ مَنْ آمَنَ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ وَالْكِتَابِ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ وَآتَى الْمَالَ عَلَى حُبِّهِ ذَوِي الْقُرْبَى وَالْيَتَامَى وَالْمَسَاكِينَ وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ وَالسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِي الرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ الصَّلاةَ وَآتَى الزَّكَاةَ وَالْمُوفُونَ بِعَهْدِهِمْ إِذَا عَاهَدُواْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ فِي الْبَأْسَاء والضَّرَّاء وَحِينَ الْبَأْسِ أُولَـئِكَ الَّذِينَ صَدَقُوا وَأُولَـئِكَ هُمُ الْمُتَّقُونَ {177}​

[Pickthal 2:177] It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.


You don't want to read books, you don't want specific examples as to you they are not adequate.. if what is written plain to see in the Quran is also difficult to decipher, then there really is no point of this, is there?

There is nothing ambiguious about "The Cow", I do read books, I'm happy to look at examples

No, that isn't according to me at all. It is according to you, for even the Hadith I have posted points to starting out with a khilafah rashida our current state of tyranny and ending again in a khilafah rashida.. you see that is how one can tell you don't read, and frankly wish to waste my time on repetition as a rhetorical device perhaps?

alrighty

I think the dear readers should be left to decipher what they may from what you've written and from what I have clearely presented!

Please point to one thing I have said, here or elsewhere, that is biggoted.

I find YOU indeed very silly.. perhaps this time the writing will remain in your memory for more than a good two second and instead of clangorous insistency on humbug, you'll read for a change!

:?

Shari3a law being implemented on the entire globe will be the choice of the people as that is the prophecy! You need not worry yourself really with things that haven't yet been fulfilled!

I'm not actually worried as I don't think there is any evidence to suggust there will ever be Shariah law, what I am concerned about is the attitude displayed here of people wishing for there to be global Islamic law.

Under Islam yes.. I can't account for individual prejudices anymore than I can under a democratic system!

Alright, I'll look under you instances to see where abuse occured, if at ll.

I think, however, you should note that this is perceisly what I was pointing to when I said there was no compulsion in religion in 1865 Mississippi yes I doubt any of us would like to live under it. Whenever your have an institutionalized religious minority under a theocracy you are inviting abuse, as we have seen throughout history. If Muslims can avoid this good for them.

I don't tend to have beef with biggots whether you are or aren't one.. I think it rather self-imposed ignorance..

What self imposed ignorance? If I were refusing to accecpt clear evidence I would understand this, however I have continually admitted my ignorance and my willingness to be corrected, and have even offered to read two books of your choosing, let's look in my backpack.

"The Primicy of the Sbjective", Foundations of Arithmatic" "Symbolic Logic", "In Search of the Origional Koran" , "Postmodernism ans Islam", "Contemporary Islamic Conversations, and the Koran, now one of those books is on Philosophy of Mind, the other are logic/foundations of mathematics philosophy, the rest are Islamic texts, that does not seem to be self impossed ignorance.

truly to learn one must pick a book, you'll not be pleased with anyone's view otherwise.. Anyone can be biased it is human.. shouldn't you read and draw your own conclusions?

Sure

 

[wth1257]

Tell me what in specific aspects of Islam are you curious about and I'll try to find you one on line where you don't have to spend any money at all..
Do you want a book on jurisprudence?
legal philsophy
law
there is a great website called kalamullah, which I believe very much covers every aspect of Islam even Islamic medicine ...
and here it is

http://kalamullah.com/books.html


if this isn't adequate, I'll try to find others.. I need to run


peace

I was really just asking about a book you feel properly represent Islamic Law/Political Theory and how it relates to religious minorities.

You don't need to stress yourself, I have a fairly large library at my disposal, and can look into things, I was just opening myself up to receive what you feel to be a proper representation of Islamic Law.

 

[islamirama]

Relax!
I was just asking how the rights of non-abrahamic minorities are protected under the islamic law.

Study Islam and islamic history and you will find out. Minorities were better treated and protected under shar'iah then they were under their oppressive dictators. Why do you think many christian nations were requesting help from Muslims to be invaded be ruled over rather then deal with their "royal crap".

 

[afzalaung]

ooo.....
InshaAllah...
but it seems too idealistic... probably wont happen in my life time...unless Imam Mahdi descend one of these days.inshaAllah

 

[tetsujin]

Study Islam and islamic history and you will find out. Minorities were better treated and protected under shar'iah then they were under their oppressive dictators. Why do you think many christian nations were requesting help from Muslims to be invaded be ruled over rather then deal with their "royal crap".

Which christian nation requested to be invaded by muslims?


I'm just curious, my history is weak.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

which Muslim country asked to be invaded? even now....

 

[tetsujin]

which Muslim country asked to be invaded? even now....

Great, so you understand my point. Though I haven't made the claim that Muslim counties asked to be invaded.


I still wait for an answer.