Will atheist ever get the proof of God's existence?

[aamirsaab]

To me, God is an emotion:
* some people have felt that emotion and call it God.
* some people have felt the emotion but refuse to call it God.
* some people haven't felt it so won't ever call it God.

 

[جوري]

The hell?

Rocks don't evolve.

How true.. perhaps now we can throw out abiogenesis along with other theories inviting nothing but ridicule?

I see what you are saying here. And yes, it is true. Simply claiming something does not make it true. However, I have not actually made any claims without having evidence and/or reason to back it up.

Hence the you 'plural' I'll have to assume though, that if you jump to the defense of someone that you share his convictions?!

cheers

 

[جوري]

I'm sorry, I just had to draw attention to this comment I saw from Skye.

It doesn't concern you at all you if you don't find it interesting but lest you appear to forget that you and Tornado are having a discussion. Making rather rude statements like that when he states his own beliefs on the matter of God is completely out of place and over the top.

A belief is a belief.. I reserve the right to meet inane observations with like charm!


cheers

 

[Skavau]

How true.. perhaps now we can throw out abiogenesis along with other theories inviting nothing but ridicule?

What does rocks not evolving have to do with abiogenesis?

 

[Skavau]

A belief is a belief.. I reserve the right to meet inane observations with like charm!


cheers

It was not an 'inane observation'. He was expressing his belief. Your attitude concerning it I found immature and rude. Consider from a personal perspective. Let us imagine you and a friend are in a discussion and he has just told you about his beliefs. Would you honestly reply: "Do I care?!"

 

[Tornado]

Civil please. I don't want insults thrown back and forth. Perhaps she has a reason for being rude and insulting or maybe it's just her nature.

 

[Makky]

A question to Atheists what is an evidence?

Salam be upon those who follow the truth.

We have a number of atheists here in this forum, I'd like to focus on one of the main problems in Athiesm by asking Athiests this Question..

How can you define an evidence?

 

[جوري]

What does rocks not evolving have to do with abiogenesis?

?? Perhaps you can express yourself better, or seek a dictionary to aid you.. I don't understand fragments!
cheers

 

[جوري]

It was not an 'inane observation'. He was expressing his belief. Your attitude concerning it I found immature and rude. Consider from a personal perspective. Let us imagine you and a friend are in a discussion and he has just told you about his beliefs. Would you honestly reply: "Do I care?!"

He is not a friend. As for friends that express opinions that I don't care for, I simply tell them so and state my reasons!

cheers

 

[جوري]

Civil please. I don't want insults thrown back and forth. Perhaps she has a reason for being rude and insulting or maybe it's just her nature.

Yeah that is it!

 

[gang4]

Originally Posted by SundriedAtheist View Post
... You are either with us, on the side of reason, logic and rationality...

That my original presumption was...atheist based on reason, logic etc
But,

An absurd post which belies the idea of an elite group which would have SundriedAtheist as a member. Atheism is a belief that no gods exist and is therefore not umbilically connected with rationalism.

Thanks to this piece of information.


I must admit I was wrong or mislead by having presumption reason or logic is the driving force behind atheist. It seems I need to rewrite my understanding.


- Monotheistic believe system is received from God through HIS prophets and HIS Scriptures.
- Polytheistic believe system is received from their fathers of old developped culturally for so many centuries.
- Atheist is a self-proclaimed believe system.

A quick rewrite version of my understanding:

A Believer Praises God.
An atheist praises one-self.... how they are more self-aproclaimed superior morally and intelectually than the believer.

A Believer's attitude is taught and tends to be humble. Though not all, some may behave the opposite (you could say myself for example).
An atheist' attitude tends to be more self-proclaimed superior morally and intelectually than the believer. Though not all some do have the capacity to be objective and humble. So it depends on statistics or your own experience.

A Believer is required to perform do and don't to achieve PIETY.
Atheist to achieve moral and intellectual superiority needs not to go trough 6-year Ph.D program. One can do it maybe in minutes by self-proclaimed as an atheist and memorizing few lines:
"Where is the proof the existency of God"
"Ignorance is not a form of evidence" etc...

And equppied with those memorized lines, one can do the da'wah if one wants to by going to the religous sites and telling the believers how they are mentally deluded and a fool by believing in God..

A Believer believes in miracles performed by their prophets.
Atheist doesn't believe in miracles, but may miraculously believes one can acheive moral and intellectual supremacy not by years of a systematic doing and learning but just an atheistic self-proclaimed would be sufficient enough. In the count of five fingers...voila! Self-congratulations, you are above others!

It seems atheist set of believes are hardly related to being right or being righteous rather it's a matter of superiority.... and yes, these believes IS definitely much superior... given if-and-only-if it's a self-proclaimed believe dettached from reason and evidence.

Though it was never my intention, if you feel this is a personal insult...Notice the intentional chose-word 'one' that functions ambiguously as a pronoun and also as a number. One (number) has shown most of these symptoms (SundriedAtheist).

Or You can request to ban my account...

Since atheist is a personal belief and not a new method of reasoning and everybody has a freedom to choose their own set of a belief... No need to discuss further.

Only after one's own death one will know who has the right set of belief....and of course if God Wills to change one set of belief.

Think I am done here...I have conveyed few verses.
If I am not ban, I'll be around the section of my brothers and sisters to learn more about Islam.

Have a good day...
To my brothers and sisters... Assallamu-Allaikum.

 

[Trumble]

-A quick rewrite version of my understanding:

A Believer Praises God.
An atheist praises one-self.... how they are more self-aproclaimed superior morally and intelectually than the believer.

Try again. You are hopelessly confusing an intellectual position with your own ridiculous generalized caricature of those that hold it. You are doing exactly what you accuse 'atheists' of doing!

 

[Skavau]

- Monotheistic believe system is received from God through HIS prophets and HIS Scriptures.
- Polytheistic believe system is received from their fathers of old developped culturally for so many centuries.
- Atheist is a self-proclaimed believe system.

An Atheist is just someone who does not believe in a God or Gods. It is not a "self-proclaimed belief system".

A Believer Praises God.
An atheist praises one-self.... how they are more self-aproclaimed superior morally and intelectually than the believer.

No they don't. These are prejudiced generalisations. How accurate would you consider it if I accused all Muslims of being inherently totalitarian in nature?

A Believer's attitude is taught and tends to be humble. Though not all, some may behave the opposite (you could say myself for example).
An atheist' attitude tends to be more self-proclaimed superior morally and intelectually than the believer. Though not all some do have the capacity to be objective and humble. So it depends on statistics or your own experience.

Provide evidence for your analysis.

A Believer is required to perform do and don't to achieve PIETY.
Atheist to achieve moral and intellectual superiority needs not to go trough 6-year Ph.D program. One can do it maybe in minutes by self-proclaimed as an atheist and memorizing few lines:

Absolutely nothing regarding an Atheist there is true in the slightest.

Perhaps you need to hear the definition of Atheist again: An Atheist is someone who simply does not believe in the existence of a God/s. It has nothing to with a moral compass whatsoever.

And equppied with those memorized lines, one can do the da'wah if one wants to by going to the religous sites and telling the believers how they are mentally deluded and a fool by believing in God..

Just so this is on record, this thread was started by a Muslim criticising Atheists. In fact, in a rather large irony - it was started in fact, by gang4 himself! There is also another thread on here which criticises Atheists started by a Muslim. Essentially every single Atheist on here defends themselves. No-one from the atheist camp here has claimed that anyone is mentally deluded or a fool for believing in God. (actually, one person did and he was banned).

Your analysis, gang4 - could not be further from reality.

A Believer believes in miracles performed by their prophets.
Atheist doesn't believe in miracles, but may miraculously believes one can acheive moral and intellectual supremacy not by years of a systematic doing and learning but just an atheistic self-proclaimed would be sufficient enough.

Utter drivel.

I as an Atheist, do not believe this. Stop telling me what I do and do not believe.

It seems atheist set of believes are hardly related to being right or being righteous rather it's a matter of superiority.... and yes, these believes IS definitely much superior... given if-and-only-if it's a self-proclaimed believe dettached from reason and evidence.

Well, since there is no and never was any "atheist set of believes" in the first place - actually, it seems like your entire is one massive insulting and misleading strawman.

Though it was never my intention, if you feel this is a personal insult...Notice the intentional chose-word 'one' that functions ambiguously as a pronoun and also as a number. One (number) has shown most of these symptoms (SundriedAtheist).

So what?

One Atheist does not define others. On Gawaher, I got insulted many times over by a specific Muslim user who referred me to a cancer and someone who is wicked. I do not define all other Muslims by that individual Muslim. I understand instead that the individual Muslim I was conversing with then indeed was himself defined by his own ignorance and prejudice - much like yourself.

(Although he was worse).

Or You can request to ban my account...

Your ignorance does not insult me.

Since atheist is a personal belief and not a new method of reasoning and everybody has a freedom to choose their own set of a belief... No need to discuss further.

I will address posts that mislead people about what Atheism is. Including yours.

 

[Skavau]

?? Perhaps you can express yourself better, or seek a dictionary to aid you.. I don't understand fragments!
cheers

I cannot present that any more clearer:

What does the fact that rocks do not evolve have to do with our understanding of abiogenesis?

 

[جوري]

I cannot present that any more clearer:

What does the fact that rocks do not evolve have to do with our understanding of abiogenesis?

What is your understanding of abiogenesis?

 

[energy_22]

To me, God is an emotion:
* some people have felt that emotion and call it God.
* some people have felt the emotion but refuse to call it God.
* some people haven't felt it so won't ever call it God.

I have much the same view.

Which means that Moses heard the voice of emotion coming from the burning bush.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

God is far more then any emotion, he is constantly there maintaining order

otherwise the whole world would be like gotham city and we'd have thousands of psycho's running around writing "why-so-serious" in blood :|

 

[Azy]

You'll forgive me with being particular.. this is how I like to work! systematically
for instance:
5609586958 BC hard consolidated mineral matter which came from God knows where acquired a new base pair from God knows where and incorporated it into itself to make perinephric fat.. 5609586959 BC the same consolidated mineral matter now with perinephric fat decided to take unto itself another few base pairs from God knows where to proliferate into Gerotals (Gerota's) Facia.. Do you catch my drift? I'd like for you to validate that scientifically and establish why it happened in that fashion so that they fall into a properly working system not a glob of green goo.. and to do it for every organ system until it reaches complex form, then for every plant, for every life form, for every ocean for every fruit for every planet.

I think most here would prefer you being honest over systematic. It's doubtful that anyone who considers abiogenesis to be a realistic proposition is of the opinion that rocks spontaneously sprout human kidneys.
You can see from fossils that 3+ billion years ago there were only primitive bacteria on earth, Evolution is your target if you wish to dispute the rise of complexity, not abiogenesis.

Mineral-rich warm seas and simple self-replicating or co-replicating molecules are a good bet for the beginnings of life, not talking rocks. Such systems have been demonstrated, these things are not as fanciful as one might think.

 

[Muhammad]

and Greetings,

May I remind members to please remain on topic and avoid offensive comments, as this does not aid the discussion in any way and will lead to thread closure.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[جوري]

I think most here would prefer you being honest over systematic. It's doubtful that anyone who considers abiogenesis to be a realistic proposition is of the opinion that rocks spontaneously sprout human kidneys.
You can see from fossils that 3+ billion years ago there were only primitive bacteria on earth, Evolution is your target if you wish to dispute the rise of complexity, not abiogenesis.

Mineral-rich warm seas and simple self-replicating or co-replicating molecules are a good bet for the beginnings of life, not talking rocks. Such systems have been demonstrated, these things are not as fanciful as one might think.

Honest, systematic, problematic, abio-matic, evolu-matic 'such demonstrated' isn't evidence!.. it is filler, of the boring variety? I have made my proposition in one of the above posts, if you know enough about molecular bio, go ahead and prove it, bring me the earliest known fossil whose mere exitence denotes correlated event or events have taken place to set the cascade of all else in motion! A theory is as good as its cogency of evidence not the smoothness of the speaker, and I contend even that escapes you!

cheers