There are many ahadeeths that say that Prophet Mohammad (saw) had split the moon (Sahih Bukhari #830, #832, #208, #209, #210, #211, #387 etc..)
Many non-Muslims say that if the moon was split by Prophet Mohammad (saw) then the whole world would've witnessed this great event but there is no evidence to suggest this. What should I say? The Qur'aan also confirms this miracle:
اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ
The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
"The Jews call 'Uzair (Ezra) a son of The God, and the Christians call Al masih (the Messiah) the son of The God. That is a saying from their mouth; In this they but imitate what the believers of old used to say. The God's Curse be on them: How they are deluded away from the Truth."
If the Book of the God says it happened, It happened. It has not lied to me in over forty years, so I do not expect for it to do so now.
Ezra the Priest, when you look him up in the Bible, was a man dedicated to fulfilling the Law, and he did (which also refutes those who say:"No one can accomplish the Law...add him to Zakariah father(?) of Yayah ("John"- as is if he were an Englishman-the Baptist, and his mother "Elizabeth". See: the beggining of "Luke".), so I take nothing away from him except what people have added.
Would they call someone:"SOG" (Astogfirullah) and worship him? If Isa Ibn Maryam Al Masih (Isa son of Maryam the Messiah- Called "Jesus" by the Gentiles/ Romans) is an example, they most certainly would.
But now you have the verse itself to "work with" as a concrete Item.
Not quite eagleye; it would be petitio principii if we were using the Qur'an as the source to validate the Qur'an, but in this case we are citing independent historical narrations documented by Al-Qurtubi, At-Tabari, Al-Baydawi, etc. Note also that the posts of mine quoted by brother Fi_Sabilillah were responding to a specific allegation against the Qur'an on this point. As such, I pointed out that it is entirely plausible (and due to the historical narrations quite likely) that the Jews of Madinah made such a statement.
But of course this is the topic of the other thread, and anyone who wishes tyo continue the discussion here must do so in the other thread. The topic of the present thread is the moon splitting which has been addressed in the second post.
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
well, how long was the moon split, was it just few min or sec? if so then the chances of people looking up at the moon in that period of time is probably low.
Not quite eagleye; it would be petitio principii if we were using the Qur'an as the source to validate the Qur'an, but in this case we are citing independent historical narrations documented by Al-Qurtubi, At-Tabari, Al-Baydawi, etc. Note also that the posts of mine quoted by brother Fi_Sabilillah were responding to a specific allegation against the Qur'an on this point. As such, I pointed out that it is entirely plausible (and due to the historical narrations quite likely) that the Jews of Madinah made such a statement.
the only source I'm familiar with is of Quran that proclaim this.
the article suggest other sources but does not offer the references to these narrations. still such narrations are of Islamic believe just as Quran is. and one depends in the other i.e the ahadith dependent on Quran to be validated to be authentic. thus Quran says so therefore ahadith correct.
as demonstrated by previous post I've replied.
it is no differ from Torah validates the Talmud or vice versa.
just cause the speak same tone does not validates historically as both speaks of events that yet proven be true. it is enigma.
the only source I'm familiar with is of Quran that proclaim this.
the article suggest other sources but does not offer the references to these narrations.
Yes it does. See the notes in the quotation from Mohar Ali (ra).
thus Quran says so therefore ahadith correct.
I'm afraid that's not correct. The Ahâdîth have an independent system of classification based on the dual isnâd-matn system. Read up on Mustalah al-Hadith and its associated fields of study like Jarh wa Ta'dîl, 'Ilal, Tadlîs, etc.
As for splitting of the moon, see the second post for the description.
Regards
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "Surely I was sent to perfect the qualities of righteous character" [Musnad Ahmad, Muwatta Mâlik]
Yes it does. See the notes in the quotation from Mohar Ali (ra).
I'm afraid that's not correct. The Ahâdîth have an independent system of classification based on the dual isnâd-matn system. Read up on Mustalah al-Hadith and its associated fields of study like Jarh wa Ta'dîl, 'Ilal, Tadlîs, etc.
As for splitting of the moon, see the second post for the description.
Regards
thank you for your commnets.
I was referring to narrations from ahadith put aside the narrators.
i have an article which i'll share inshallah tonight. It talks about that king that witnessed it and travel to mecca to find out about it. It also shows one of the descendeds of the king talking about it recently in india.
show us any scientific proven evidence that denies the spliting of the moon.
even the cosmology scientists didn't do a full geographic scan to the moon to be able to know for sure if it was split or not.
so enough talking about this subject untill you have an evidence that contradicts with what is mentioned in Quran and Hadith.
Shalom,
I do not wish to intrude, however, I must ask, since the Quran makes the claim, why must he provide evidence?
...the quote that I gave from Muhammad Asad, a former Jew himself, who pointed out that, as mentioned in At-Tabari's tafsir, some Jews came to the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and said, "How can we follow you when you do not believe Uzayr is the son of God?". Noice that the Qur'an doesn't say that the Jews believe Uzayr is the son of God, but the Qur'an is very precise in saying that the Jews say Uzayr is the son of God. Thus, it cannot be a contradiction in any way since the Qur'an is only responding to the verbal proclamation of a group of Jews!
Shalom,
It would be wonderful if you could provide any sort of proof of this claim, such as one sefer, or piece of writing from this group that claimed Ezra was a "god".
[The interviewer is a Delhi-based senior journalist. He can be contacted at [email protected]]
The 87-year-old Raja Valiyathampuram of Kodungallur in Central Kerala is a descendant of King Cheraman Perumal [also known as King Chakrawati Farmas ], the first Indian to embrace Islam in the early 7th century. Talking to him is like talking with history. In the following interview taken by A U Asif (right in the picture) in Ernakulam, he dwells in detail upon his great early ancestor and the oldest mosque (above) of the sub-continent. He also asks North Indians to come to Kerala and see how people of different religions are living there for centuries in an atmosphere of harmony, fraternity and peace.
How do you take your great great grandfather Cheraman Perumal?
Cheraman Perumal was not only a king and my ancestor, but the first Indian to come into the fold of Islam. He was actually the person who gifted Islam and the first ever mosque to the Indian sub-continent. This happened much before the advents of Muhammad bin Qasim and Mahmood Ghaznavi. This shows that Islam didn't come to India with the sword.
Is it a fact?
As is well known in Kerala, on a moon-lit night the king while walking on the rooftop of his palace along with the queen saw the moon suddenly splitting into two halves. Later he came to know through the Arab traders that that a prophet called Muhammad had wrought a miracle on that fateful night and sundered the moon before a crowd of dazed spectators. Impressed by this new messenger of God in Arabia, the king set out for the holy land after dividing his kingdom and assigning various territories to local chieftains to ensure smooth governance. In Arabia he met the Prophet and embraced Islam in the presence of Abu Bakr Siddique, who later became the first caliph. Cheraman, who took a Muslim name, Tajuddin, died on his way back to India and was buried on the shore of the Arabian Sea at Salala in the Sultanate of Oman. It is said that he had earlier written letters to the local rulers of Malabar and sent it through his ministers along with Malik bin Dinar, a companion of the Prophet. In the letters he had asked them to "receive the bearers of the letters and treat them well and help them to construct mosques at Kodungallur and elsewhere". The rulers of Kerala honored the letters and permitted Malik Bin Dinar and his fellow Arab traders to build mosques in Kerala. The mosque built in the early 7th century at Kodungallur, known as Cheraman Malik Masjid, still exists with its original structure and is said to be the oldest mosque in the sub-continent. It is named after both Cheraman Perumal and Malik bin Dinar.
Is the mosque intact with its original structure?
Yes, the original structure, including the sanctum sanctorum, remains intact. However, there have been a few extensions in the past. Its front portion is new while the back portion with its sanctum sanctorum, mehrab, mimbar (pulpit), wooden work on the roof of mimbar and traditional lamp as well as the ancient ceremonial pond, is still untouched.
Anything more about Malik Bin Dinar?
After the construction of the mosque at Kodungallur, Malik bin Dinar moved towards Mangalore and died at Kasaragod, now in Karnataka, where rests in peace. Interestingly, Cheraman Perumal and Malik bin Dinar are buried on two sides of the Arabian Sea, one at Salala in the Sultanate of Oman and the other at Kasaragod in India. In other words, their graves are interlinked by the waters of the sea. There exist 14 mosques of the same pattern and design from Kodungallur to Mangalore.
How do you see all this?
We see all this with pride. There is no question of any ill-feeling about Cheraman Perumal. We have high regard for him. He was our patriarch. He embraced Islam but could not come back from Arabia as he fell ill and died on way. I hail from his lineage and have faith in Hinduism.
How do the general people, particularly Hindus consider Cheraman and his gift in form of the first ever mosque in the Indian sub-continent?
People belonging to different religions, including Hindus, hold him in high esteem and the mosque built as per his wish as a historical monument. The historic mosque has been visited by numerous dignitaries over the centuries and decades.
President Dr A P J Abdul Kalam was recently here. He was given a warm reception in the mosque. I was also among those present on the occasion.
Unlike North India, there is no communal strife over places of worship in South India?
No, not at all. In this part of land exist India's oldest places of worship. The first synagogue, the first church, the first mosque and the ancient Bhagwathi and Mahadeva temples are located in this region. We have maintained a record of exemplary communal harmony here. I often wonder about the sudden eruption of controversy over places of worship. Unlike north, people of all faiths have high regard for all places of worship. My suggestion is: People in the north should come to Kerala and see and learn how we belonging to different religions live here for centuries without any communal hatred, animosity and strife.
History: The history of Perumathura dates back from the period of the Legendary King Cheraman Perumal who ruled South India during the 8th century A.D. The name Perumathura (meaning residence of Perumal) was derived from the Late Kings name. It is believed that Cheraman Peruamal converted to Islam during his stay at Perumathura. The mainland Perumathura and it's surrounding islands - Kottaramthuruthu, Cheramanthuruthu and Madanvila are all related in one way or another to Cheraman Perumal.
The Present Scenario: The present population of Peruamthura is around 8000, 95% of them belonging to the Islamic community, this is due to the effect of Cherman Perumal's conversion to Islam. 4% are follower's of the Christian faith and the balance worship the Hindu gods. The economy of Perumathura mostly depends on the income generated by the people working in the Arabian Gulf States. Other sources of income include from the traditional cottage industry of coir manufacturing, fishing, trading, coconut farming etc. Coir is manufactured from coconut husk which after a cumbersome process is transformed into variety of coir products. The coir products are sold mainly to the coir mills of Alappuzha & Cochin from where it is exported to many countries. Perumathura boasts of 100% literacy. A good percent of them are well educated and are well placed in the government and private sector. Perumathura has many firsts to its credit including the first Muslim doctor from Kerala.
the Quran and sunna had already proven their honesty and accuracy in many other subjects, thats why it is easy to believe that any thing that is mentioned in them is true.
on the other way, it is not a good thing for you to speak in a matter that you don't have a knowledge about.
that's why if you can refute this fact then do it, otherwise if you don't have any thing that contradicts it then you can't just deny it.
because the absence of proof is not a proof of absence.
format_quote Originally Posted by rav
I do not wish to intrude, however, I must ask, since the Quran makes the claim, why must he provide evidence?
in the same way that you may use to prove to him (eagleye) that God talked to moses (peace be upon him), we muslims prove that the moon did split in the time of the prophet (peace be upon him).
and as you don't have a recorded Audio tape of what you claim, i don't have neither a picture nor a recorded video of the moon splitting event.
but after all you rav will never be able to logically prove what is mentioned in your holy books which claims that God regrets and tears come out from God's eyes and he needs to rest after doing hard jobs (sabbath) and that God only realize things after he create them, etc.
because we know that Allah is far above any kind of imperfection and too exalted for commiting those actions.
here is the verses that is 100% compatible with the rightious human logic.
in the Quranic meaning translation:
003.165surely Allah has power over all things.
Also
050.038And certainly We created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods and there touched Us not any fatigue.
Many people have asked what evidence apart from an Indian seeing the moon split is there? I know that it couldnt have been seen by everyone due to time zones but is there some more evidence of this?
One of the greatest and most renowned mujizas(miracles) of Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was the splitting of the moon into two. This mujiza never fell to the lot of any other Prophet. When Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) was fifty-two years old, the leaders of the disbelievers from the Quraish came up to him and said, "If you are a prophet, split the moon into two parts." Muhammad (sallallahu alyhi wasallam) dearly wanted everybody, especially his relatives and his friends, to covert to Islam. He prayed raising up his hands. Allahu ta'ala accepted his prayers and split the moon into two parts. Each half of the moon was seen above different mountains. The disbelievers said, "Muhammad performed magic for us." So they did not become Muslims.Here is the sign today, check image: http://www.answering-christianity.co...n_12202006.jpg
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