New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith (OP)
The Holy Quran and the traditional sayings of prophet Mohummed are the two legs of the Religion of Islam , The Holy Quran contains scientific miracles that have been already confiremeds scientifically . These Holy Scientific verses were revealed more than 1400 years ago , at the time of prophet Mohummed there were many other different miracles to make people believe . Because Quran will be the last reveald Book till life ends , Gods has made it overflowing Book with miracles that suit every age and its kind of civilization . As we live now in the age of science , we find that there are a lot of scientific miracles in Quran in addition to the Hadiths (prophet's traditional sayings ) Here is a wonderful miracle :
Medically it is well known now that a fly carries some pathagens on some parts of its body as mentioned by the Prophet (before 1400 years. approx. when the humans knew very little of modern medicine.) Similarly Allah created organisms and other mechanisms which kill these pathagens e.g. penicillin Fungus kills pathogenic organisms like Staphalococci and others etc. Recently experiments have been done under supervision which indicate that a fly carries the disease (pathagens) plus the antidote for those organ-isms. Ordinarily when a fly touches a liquid food it infects the liquid with its pathogens, so it must be dipped in order to release also the antidote for those pathogens to act as a counter balance to the pathogens.
The creation of the head of the fly reflesct God's greatness
Prophet Mohummed says "If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote. "
The Prophet Muhammad - upon him and his House blessings and peace - alluded to both facts 1,400 years ago when he said, as narrated from Abu Hurayra and Abu Sa`id al-Khudri by al-Bukhari and in the Sunan.
The greatness of God's creation in the eyes of the fly
Only in modern times was it discovered that the common fly carried parasitic pathogens for many diseases including malaria, typhoid fever, cholera, and others. It was also discovered that the fly carried parasitic bacteriophagic fungi capable of fighting the germs of all these diseases.
The Prophet Muhammad - upon him and his House blessings and peace - alluded to both facts 1,400 years ago when he said, as narrated from Abu Hurayra and Abu Sa`id al-Khudri by al-Bukhari and in the Sunan:
If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote.
It is established that house flies are carriers of dangerous pathogens of animals and humans. Even the muscaphobic critics of this hadith are forced to admit that no one at the time of the Prophet, upon him peace, knew that flies carry such harmful organisms. Whence the observation that "under one of its wings there is venom"?
Second, from the perspective of logic, if the fly did not carry some sort of protection in the form of an antidote or immunity, it would perish from its own poisonous burden and there would be no fly left in the world.
Further, the transmission of what the fly carries in or on its body is not an automatic fact. For example, the microbe responsible for ulcers and other stomach ailments can live on houseflies, although it remains to be seen whether flies transmit the pathogen.
There has long been evidence of bacterial pathogen-suppressing micro-organisms living in houseflies. An article in Vol. 43 of the Rockefeller Foundation's Journal of Experimental Medicine (1927) p. 1037 stated:
The flies were given some of the cultured microbes for certain diseases. After some time the germs died and no trace was left of them while a germ-devouring substance formed in the flies - bacteriophages. If a saline solution were to be obtained from these flies it would contain bacteriophages able to suppress four kinds of disease-inducing germs and to benefit immunity against four other kinds.
Cited in `Abd Allah al-Qusami, Mushkilat al-Ahadith al-Nabawiyya wa-Bayanuha (p. 42).
More recently, a Colorado State University website on entomology states, "Gnotobiotic [=germ-free] insects (Greenberg et al, 1970) were used to provide evidence of the bacterial pathogen-suppressing ability of the microbiota of Musca domestica [houseflies] .... most relationships between insects and their microbiota remain undefined. Studies with gnotobiotic locusts suggest that the microbiota confers previously unexpected benefits for the insect host."
So then, flies are not only pathogenic carriers but also carry microbiota that can be beneficent. The fly microbiota were described as "longitudinal yeast cells living as parasites inside their bellies. These yeast cells, in order to perpetuate their life cycle, protrude through certain respiratory tubules of the fly. If the fly is dipped in a liquid, the cells burst into the fluid and the content of those cells is an antidote for the pathogens which the fly carries." Cf. Footnote in the Translation of the Meanings of Sahih al-Bukhari by Muhammad Muhsin Khan (7:372, Book 76 Medicine, Chapter 58, Hadith 5782).
These fly microbiota are bacteriophagic or "germ-eating". Bacteriophages are viruses of viruses. They attack viruses and bacteria. They can be selected and bred to kill specific organisms. The viruses infect a bacterium, replicate and fill the bacterial cell with new copies of the virus, and then break through the bacterium's cell wall, causing it to burst. The existence of similar bacteria-killing mechanisms in two bacteriophages suggests that antibiotics for human infections might be designed on the basis of these cell wall-destroying proteins. Science 292 (June 2001) p. 2326-2329.
Bacteriophagic medicine was available in the West before the forties but was discontinued when penicillin and other "miracle antibiotics" came out. Bacteriophages continued to flourish in Eastern Europe as an over-the-counter medicine. The "O1-phage" has been used for diagnosis of all Salmonella types while the prophylaxis of Shigella dysentery was conducted with the help of phages. Annales Immunologiae Hungaricae No. 9 (1966) in German.
"Phage therapy" is now making a comeback in the West:
First named in 1917 by researcher Felix d'Herelle at France 's Pasteur Institute, bacteriophages (or just phages for short) are viruses that prey upon bacteria. They have a simple structure - a DNA-filled head attached by a shaft to spidery "legs" that are used to grip onto the surface of a bacterium. Once a phage latches onto a bacterium, it injects its payload of genetic material into the bacterium's innards. The bacterium then begins to rapidly produce "daughter" copies of the phage -- until the bacterium becomes too full and ruptures, sending hundreds of new phage particles into the open world.
Doctors used phages as medical treatment for illnesses ranging from cholera to typhoid fevers. In some cases, a liquid containing the phage was poured into an open wound. In others, they were given orally, via aerosol, or injected. In some cases, the treatments worked well - in others, they did not. When antibiotics came into the mainstream, phage therapy largely faded in the west.
However, researchers in eastern Europe, including the former Soviet Union , continued their studies of the potential healing properties of phages. And now that strains of bacteria resistant to standard antibiotics are on the rise, the idea of phage therapy has been getting more attention in the worldwide medical community. Several biotechnology companies have been formed in the U.S. to develop bacteriophage-based treatments - many of them drawing on the expertise of researchers from eastern Europe."
Research on the medical application of bacteriophages is now considered to be in its most promising stage. A University of Pittsburgh researcher said in June 2001, "Given the sheer number and variety of bacteriophages lurking on the planet, the viruses may represent a sizable untapped reservoir of new therapeutics." Science 292 (June 2001) p. 2326-2329.
Possibilities for use of bacteriophages in disease control is discussed in the article "Smaller Fleas... Ad infinitum: Therapeutic Bacteriophage Redux" in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America [PNAS] Vol. 93 No. 8 (April 16, 1996), 3167-8.
The fact that the fly carried pathophagic or germ-eating agents was known to the ancients, who noticed that wasp and scorpion stings are remedied by rubbing the sore spot with a decapitated fly as mentioned in al-Antaki's Tadhkira (1:140), al-`Ayni's citation of Abu Muhammad Ibn al-Baytar al-Maliqi's (d. 646) al-Jami` li-Mufradat al-Adwiya wal-Aghdhiya in `Umdat al-Qari (7:304), and al-Sha`rani's Mukhtasar al-Suwaydi fil-Tibb (p. 98).
Avicenna preferred the use of a live chicken slit in two and applied to the wound cf. Ibn al-Azraq, Tas-hîl al- Manafi` (1306 ed. p. 171=1315 ed. p. 147). A similar use is current even today for camel urine according to a University of Calgary website.
In the two world wars the wounds of soldiers exposed to flies were observed to heal and scar faster than the wounds of unexposed soldiers. Even today, fly larvae, or maggots, are used medicinally to clean up festering wounds. They only eat dead tissue and leave healthy tissue alone.
Is the fly ritually filthy (najis)? No. The Jurists concur that the fly is pure (al-dhubab tahir) and does not defile a liquid even if its quantity is small and even if it dies in it except, according to al-Shafi`i, if one of the aspects of the liquid is affected (smell, color, taste) cf. al-Baghawi, Sharh al-Sunna (11:260-261) and al-Qastallani, Irshad al-Sari (5:304-305).
The Prophetic Sunna is an endless manual of healthy living and practical husbandry for people of all walks of life, especially the poor. The Prophet, upon him peace, at all times directed his Umma to avert waste and penury even in unsanitary conditions. Just as the hadith on camel milk and urine reveals knowledge of dietetics and natural medicine, so does the hadith of the fly reveal knowledge of preventive medicine and immunology. In this respect the command in these hadiths, as in many others, denotes an advisory Sunna of permissibility, not a literal obligation. "The command [of immersing the fly] denotes counsel (al-amru lil-irshad) so as to counter disease with cure." Al-Qastallani, Irshad al-Sari (5:304).
Despite the abundance of supporting evidence for the authenticity of these medicinal narrations (camel and fly) on the one hand and for their scientific viability on the other, certain voices continue to reject them on both counts. Principle skepticism of authentically transmitted narrations that pertain to facts demonstrated by ancient and modern science, or whose scientific worth is just now coming into view, is the wont of stagnant minds and diseased hearts for which there is no cure save the mercy of our Lord.
Now researchers are developing a new antibiotic made of the antidode living on the fly's surface
The latest research calls for a new antibody from the fly antidote
here is a new research titled "The new buzz on antibiotics" that was done only a weak ago ...read this study:
The surface of flies is the last place you would expect to find antibiotics, yet that is exactly where a team of Australian researchers is concentrating their efforts Working on the theory that flies must have remarkable antimicrobial defences to survive rotting dung, meat and fruit, the team at the Department of Biological Sciences, Macquarie University, set out to identify those antibacterial properties manifesting at different stages of a fly’s development.
"Our research is a small part of a global research effort for new antibiotics, but we are looking where we believe no-one has looked before,” said Ms Joanne Clarke, who presented the group’s findings at the Australian Society for Microbiology Conference in Melbourne this week. The project is part of her PhD thesis.
The scientists tested four different species of fly: a house fly, a sheep blowfly, a vinegar fruit fly and the control, a Queensland fruit fly which lays its eggs in fresh fruit. These larvae do not need as much antibacterial compound because they do not come into contact with as much bacteria.
Flies go through the life stages of larvae and pupae before becoming adults. In the pupae stage, the fly is encased in a protective casing and does not feed. "We predicted they would not produce many antibiotics," said Ms Clarke.
They did not. However the larvae all showed antibacterial properties (except that of the Queensland fruit fly control).
As did all the adult fly species, including the Queensland fruit fly (which at this point requires antibacterial protection because it has contact with other flies and is mobile).
Such properties were present on the fly surface in all four species, although antibacterial properties occur in the gut as well. "You find activity in both places," said Ms Clarke.
"The reason we concentrated on the surface is because it is a simpler extraction.”
The antibiotic material is extracted by drowning the flies in ethanol, then running the mixture through a filter to obtain the crude extract.
When this was placed in a solution with various bacteria including E.coli, Golden Staph, Candida (a yeast) and a common hospital pathogen, antibiotic action was observed every time.
"We are now trying to identify the specific antibacterial compounds," said Ms Clarke. Ultimately these will be chemically synthesised.
Because the compounds are not from bacteria, any genes conferring resistance to them may not be as easily transferred into pathogens. It is hoped this new form of antibiotics will have a longer effective therapeutic life.
Danny Kingsley - ABC Science Online
besides there was many false theories in the time of the prophet for example "some of the greeks used to say a false theory about the formation of groundwater but this false theory is not mentioned in the quran , so why did the prophet left this theory and how did he know that it is wrong,except through revelation ???"
but the quran does not mention any one of these false theroies
also people used to say that the sun is not moving but the quran didn't say the same thing ,so why didn't the quran mention the same wrong theories that existed in those era ? because it's the words of the creator of every thing which is ALLAH.
036.038
And the sun runs on to a term appointed for it; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.
so i ask you to get me an old book (1400 years old) that mentioned many aspects of science and not a single info in it has been proven that it contradicts with the right scientific facts
even the greek and romans books you will find it contains some right things and a lot of wrong things ,you know why ? because this is the nature of the humans ,it is their nature to be sometimes wrong
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
Hi Hemoo,
I have to say it seems like you are picking and choosing what you deem to be false theories.
Would you say the prediction "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted-Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs," (Qur'an 86:5-7).
Is it a true or false theory?
regardless of that as i have said before there is no reason to believe that there are any predictions what so ever. Any thing that might actually be said was either known at the time or is taking the words out of context and trying to make them fit a modern theory.
If they were true predictions then you should expect to see many a muslim scientific advancement inspired by the quran. I know of none.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by mariam.
Hi ranma1/2:
...
finally Please Note that Arabic is the Language of Quran so It's Better to Learn it to understand clearly All the miracles in Quran ..
peace.
Hi again, I appreciate the civil tone it is very refreshing after speaking to some members on this board.
I have a question that ill ask here and we can talk at another thread to keep this oneon topic.
Why did god only want the quran in arabic. It is clear that much misunderstanding is created when you cant translate something from one language to another with out slightly changing the meaning. It seems to me god could have easily sent to multiple prohits the perfect translation for at elast the major languages. It also seems to me that even if you speak the language natively there are always going to be slight problems when you learn the language, you may understand a word slightly differently than others. If you want to reply just create another thread and we will discuss there. Thanks
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
Hi Hemoo,
I have to say it seems like you are picking and choosing what you deem to be false theories.
Would you say the prediction "Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted-Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs," (Qur'an 86:5-7).
Is it a true or false theory?
.
فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ {5}
[Pickthal 86:5] So let man consider from what he is created.
خُلِقَ مِن مَّاء دَافِقٍ {6}
[Pickthal 86:6] He is created from a gushing fluid
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ {7}
[Pickthal 86:7] That issued from between the loins and ribs.
إِنَّهُ عَلَى رَجْعِهِ لَقَادِرٌ {8}
[Pickthal 86:8] Lo! He verily is Able to return him (unto life)
Main Entry: loin
Pronunciation: 'loin
Function: noun
2 plural a : the upper and lower abdominal regions and the region about the hips b (1) : the pubic region
Also take a look at where the seminal vesicle is and then pose the question again
"As you may already know, the purpose of semen is to take the sperm for a ride through the body and to nourish it along the way. A very small part of a man's seminal fluid is actually sperm made in the testicles; the rest is semen produced by the prostate gland and the nearby seminal vesicles."
Do the verses seem false?
Last edited by جوري; 04-13-2007 at 02:39 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
How on earth do you know that they "weren't known"? It seems a perfectly reasonable supposition that what might be a "fabled lost city" now was nothing of the sort 1400 years ago? Particularly if the culture that knew about it was as illiterate as everyone keeps saying it is.
How on earth do you know that they were? the city was buried under, if you'd actually read the article... a city from 2800 BC and wasn't mentioned any other text or seen until recently and only by satellite
http://home.hetnet.nl/~lilian_jan_sc.../oman/Ubar.htm
and still not satisfactory for you?
Why do you have an explanation for everything, other than what is blatantly obvious? Did prophet Mohammed have the time to test high Attitude hypoxia, and the sex of the worker bee and scavenge for lost cities in Petra and 3amman, checking out the sea waves, speaking of Christians who died hundreds of years prior in a cave in turkey that weren't even mentioned in other biblical books ... in beautiful unparalleled text, all while setting laws for a complete political, social, economic and religious system?-- What is the point in doing all that? Did he enjoy the mockery of querish, being ousted by his tribe and sleeping on an empty stomach? or just for amusements sake?
Last edited by جوري; 04-13-2007 at 02:33 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
hello you guys,
now I, being a christian, am not fascinated by science in the qu'ran one bit.
the Bible says many times that false prophets will come along, who will be able to perform miracles, who might prophesy the future, and who might even speak greatly of the Lord. but nevertheless, that doesn't make them a prophet. it even says that even the elect will be deceived.
but hey, that shows the true colors of a religion.. whenever i read these "science in qu'ran" or "islamic science", i don't get fascinated by islam.. i realize that people only base their faith on so called science. i realize that the believers weren't true believers to begin with if they require science to believe.
if you're going to show the so called science in the qu'ran, why don't you show the verses that say the sun revolves around the earth? lol.
now about the city of iram.. in A Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, A translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, pp. 197-198, it quotes Jews saying "We shall follow him and kill you by his aid as 'Ad and Iram perished" ... so um, appearently, according to this, the Jews knew about iram if they quoted it.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
Funny thing.. go check on comparative religion.. you'll find the Jews say the exact same thing of Jesus (a false messiah) since their books tells them to be wary of false prophets-- citing your identical words......
you don't know the first thing about how we practice or what we base our faith on so don't make ridiculous generalizations. You speak of the miracles Jesus' brought forth, yet the bible is the only testament to them. The Quran is its own testament of beauty and transcendence...When the Quran speaks of the heaven's splitting asunder so that it appears like a rose "When the sky splits apart, and turns rose-like..." (Qur'an 55:37)
.. I am sure meant nothing to the people at the time, but it means something to me when I see images captured by NASA... it is a book for every generation and every generation will find something in it exclusively for them... That is in essence its greatest miracle... What we can always read and see.. not read and accept on blind faith
if memory serves me well... some of your personal practices that you have professed here on the forum aren't acceptable even by Christian standards, so I don't see how your view of Islam is consequential?
Perhaps you can show us the verses of the sun revolving around the earth?
And good thing you are following the right prophet "Paul"-- he is really setting you on the right path...
Lastly I don't see how ibn Ishaq speaks for the Jews-- is this in the Tanakh?? in any of their actual books? for the longest time this was deemed the "fabled" city -- and the Quran passed off as false because of it-- no Jew came forth to identify it then, why is it all of a sudden supposedly mentioned by them vis a vis ibn ishaq of whom survives word in mainly two sources both of them edited copies the latter an edited copy, or recension, prepared by his student Salama ibn-Fadl al-Ansari.
BTW, I have looked up the pages and no such account of those Jews is mentioned. So not mentioned in Jewish scriptures and not mentioned in edited copies whose authenticity has not been proven--makes me wonder how far you need to circumnavigate the world to prove something in the Quran incorrect or borrowed?
No one is expecting you to follow the Quran or be a Muslim-- I personally think it a blessing-- but why are you here on an islamic forum?
peace!
Last edited by جوري; 04-13-2007 at 05:43 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
i'm on an islamic forum to learn. is that illegal?
if, since i'm a christian, i shouldn't be welcomed here, simply because i profess a different faith.. do you think that you should be welcome in america, since you profess a different faith then most? you see... that argument already shatters.
and about your post of "prophet paul." - if Christian texts are so corrupt, then why on earth does the qu'ran say to refer to "the People of the Book" numerous times!!
that would be like someone saying the earth was flat, and it had been already adressed that the earth wasn't flat, and the person was wrong, yet the textbooks still said the earth was flat!! makes no sense!
and about me, and my personally life.. yes, i am gay. but my Church accepts me. i have talked to my priest about ti several times, and he told me that everyone is welcomed in Gods house, reguardless of who we love.
so some christians might not like me, but nevertheless will usually still agree that i am welcome in a Church.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
You mock what is in the Quran, you pass false accusations as to its contents and generally don't seem to enjoy your stay here from some of your noted comments, it would seem to make sense that you would be in a place where you are with your peers and are comfortable? If I went to a Christian forum, I'd not be going there to tell them Jesus is the false Messiah and I am not amused by their phony biblical text... seems sort of insolent don't you think?
Also practically the majority of Americans are mutts-- unless you are one of the indigenous people... check the demographics to see how many religions are practiced here before we have this discussion on who does or doesn't belong!
But I digress--There is not a verse in the Quran and I defy you to find one that mentions the Earth as flat,Also what you contended earlier was the sun revolving around the earth? Why does your story change? Don't confuse your Christian middle ages for what is in the Quran if you knew Arabic.. I believe you have an Arabic boyfriend? ask him what (daha'ha) "دَحَاهَا "means as was described of the earth... if it were lost to you in the translation that isn't the Quran's problem but yours for deliberately twisting to suit your whims
وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا {30}
[Shakir 79:30] And the earth, He expanded it after that.
the word itself "dah'ha"دَحَاهَا means to give it a round/elliptical shape... this isn't subject to interpretations of your whims or needs.
From a historical perspective, perhaps you can explain why the globe that was given by AL-IDRISI ( A Muslim Sholar) (1099-1166 C.E.) to Roger II, King of Sicily who crushed it (the globe that is), Roger contending the medieval common belief accepted by the chruch, stating that the earth is flat?
I don't care what your church allows or disallows G-D's laws aren't subject to liberal interpretation..
-- the "book" that G-D sent.. isn't remotly close to what you have got. I am not going to get into it any more than this, it has already been discussed some where on this forum ad nauseum ...
peace!
Last edited by جوري; 04-13-2007 at 05:58 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia
فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ {5}
......Also take a look at where the seminal vesicle is and then pose the question again
.......
"As you may already know, the purpose of semen is to take the sperm for a ride through the body and to nourish it along the way. A very small part of a man's seminal fluid is actually sperm made in the testicles; the rest is semen produced by the prostate gland and the nearby seminal vesicles."
Do the verses seem false?
Yes, absolutely YES! You do know the prostate gland and seminal vessels are not located between the back bone and ribs right?
I would post a diagram but im sure that would break some sort of forum rule.
"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted-Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs," (Qur'an 86:5-7).
For that matter we are not formed in the man at all but we are formed from DNA contributed by both the man and the woman. And since it is suggesting that we are formed from a drop emiited between the backbone a and rib it sounds as if it is suggesting the sperm is created there.
Of course we could digress into how this knowledge was copied from what was known at the time and incorrect, it was believe for centuries that sperm came form the kidney "which is between the spine and the ribs unlike the prostate"
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by ranma1/2
Yes, absolutely YES! You do know the prostate gland and seminal vessels are not located between the back bone and ribs right?
I would post a diagram but im sure that would break some sort of forum rule.
"Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted-Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs," (Qur'an 86:5-7).
For that matter we are not formed in the man at all but we are formed from DNA contributed by both the man and the woman. And since it is suggesting that we are formed from a drop emiited between the backbone a and rib it sounds as if it is suggesting the sperm is created there.
Of course we could digress into how this knowledge was copied from what was known at the time and incorrect, it was believe for centuries that sperm came form the kidney "which is between the spine and the ribs unlike the prostate"
We have already provided you with the appropriate translation, if you insist your understanding of Arabic from your Islamophobic sites is better --then whatever tickles your fancy.. You provide us with mild amusements on occasion...
فَلْيَنظُرِ الْإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ {5}
[Pickthal 86:5] So let man consider from what he is created.
خُلِقَ مِن مَّاء دَافِقٍ {6}
[Pickthal 86:6] He is created from a gushing fluid
يَخْرُجُ مِن بَيْنِ الصُّلْبِ وَالتَّرَائِبِ {7}
[Pickthal 86:7] That issued from between the loins and ribs.
Main Entry: loin
Pronunciation: 'loin
Function: noun
2 plural a : the upper and lower abdominal regions and the region about the hips b (1) : the pubic region
or do you wish to turn this into a (cut/paste and run) before I have to account for my blather sort of debate like you have done on your evolution thread? If you have strong evidence as to how the Quran was copied from other sources, then please prove it... here is a cyber copy http://www.--------------/quran/with three different translations
And we have a wonderful refutation section right here on the forum for you to spew hate to your heart's content!
If by your inflammatory writing style you wish to elicit some kind of a reaction in truth you highlight your mindlessness and repeatedly ...
The creation of man is discussed all throughout the Quran...
Your diminutive insight of its contents with your usual cutting edge is hardly the standard by which we measure our scriptures ...
BTW.. for what it is worth I can make your head spin with embryology and anatomy as we have done with molecular biology and genetics on the other thread... but I have lost interest.. I don't find you a challenging contender.. just unstable without honorable debate ethics!
I'll leave this to my brothers and sisters on the forum who appreciate a good psychological challenge... I lose interest when we replace honest exchange for condescension
peace!
Last edited by جوري; 04-13-2007 at 07:12 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by thirdwatch512
if you're going to show the so called science in the qu'ran, why don't you show the verses that say the sun revolves around the earth? lol.
Or how about the advanced west today who uses the terms 'sunset' and 'sunrise' i never knew we believed that scientifically, so why do people use it? It's because its a figure of speech, thats exactly the same in the arabic language.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
"He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night, and He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not a straw."
"And the Sun runs unto a resting place: that is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing."
If you mean this verses .. I want to ask you have you ever hear about solar apex?
These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometers an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometers a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia;712457[Pickthal 86:7
That issued from between the loins and ribs.
loin
.....the upper and lower abdominal regions and the region about the hips b (1) : the pubic region
Wow that could not at all have been known at the time.. oh woe is me....
Hmm. well at least with this translation it doesnt sound as horribly wrong.. Im curiouys do you only use pickthal or do you use other translations as they suit?
Still even then it is wrong in that its getting super broad.... It would be much more accurate to say its produced in within the pelvis. but nooo. it has to be between the loin and the rib... Come on this doesnt help your case one bit. Noe what do you say to the person that posted their translation? Are they just ignorant for not using your version?
or do you wish to turn this into a (cut/paste and run) before I have to account for my blather sort of debate like you have done on your evolution thread?
more accusations... sigh.. i explained myself in those threads and you never answered my questions. You just insult as you have hear too..
If you have strong evidence as to how the Quran was copied from other sources, then please prove it... here is a cyber copy http://www.--------------/quran/with three different translations
And we have a wonderful refutation section right here on the forum for you to spew hate to your heart's content!
Hate? Your the one being rude and spewing insults.
....
The creation of man is discussed all throughout the Quran...
Yes and its wrong many many times...
Your diminutive insight of its contents with your usual cutting edge is hardly the standard by which we measure our scriptures ...
See more childish insults.. is it no wonder why i just started to ignore you in the evo thread? If you cant attack the facts you attack the person. You make fun of their grammar and spelling oh my... he spelt a word wrong...
BTW.. for what it is worth I can make your head spin with embryology and anatomy as we have done with molecular biology and genetics on the other thread...
and make false claims.. You seem to think if you use what you think are fancy words to try to out vocab someone you will win. You have yet to make your point clear instead you try to confuse and deceive.
but I have lost interest..
yay...
I don't find you a challenging contender.. just unstable without honorable debate ethics!
Sigh... well we know what your debate ethics are.. Insult, ignore facts, lie, insult and repeat...
I'll leave this to my brothers and sisters on the forum who appreciate a good psychological challenge... I lose interest when we replace honest exchange for condescension
Thank goodness. I know that they can be civil and polite.
peace!
So now that this individual is gone with his/her insults we can hopefully continue with civility and no more childish insults.
Re: New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith
I think anyone who has some entry level education and ethics can tell the difference between a quality post and well --yours. The Questions on evolution are actually still open and unanswered by your person.
I read the Quran in Arabic, and have actually provided you three transliteration to pick and choose what you desire, it will not derange the original Arabic text which is spoken during prayer by 1.8 billion Muslims, from Arabia to china to Australia. should you wish to bring forth questions as to its contents, then please do so.
Any translation isn't remotely close to the original semetic Arabic text, but the translators have given it their best. Makes your desired interpretation seem very insignificant in the scheme of things!
If you mistake research I have done for "fancy words" and "childish insults" that is your problem not mine--I suggest you re-evaluate why you are posting here. And be more read before you respond instead of referencing people to pages whose contents you cannot extract or distill down to answer simple questions.
If again you are finding something wrong in the Quran --"many many" times isn't the appropriate assertion, would probably give you an (F) if you were to answer so on an exam question. Bring out what is questionable to you and start an honest debate.
I know you don't know the first thing about the Quran, just like you don't know the first thing about Mutation from your evolution thread. As you presented us with the usual cut and paste we are accustomed to seeing.
Search the forum and you'll see a repeated account of what you have posted here. Which have all been refuted. Seems every Islamophobe frequents the same sites for the same quotes out of context. I don't find that a measure of free thought. But a measure as of hate and closed mindedness.
-- I hope you train vigorously under someone before you start teaching, if that is indeed what you plan to do, I have my doubts just from the level of which you present yourself! but if you are I hope he/she would take your ethics, knowledge, people skill and tolerance to the very least an acceptable level.
There is nothing further that I wish to impart to your person.
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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New studies reveal scientific miracles in the fly Hadith (OP)
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