Debate: Why do some people completely reject hadith?

BoiStop said:

Salaam,

I don't believe in Hadiths. I believe that you are not suppose to kill any apostate. The Quran talks clearly about the Apostate and no where does it say to kill them. THere is no compulsion in Islam at all. And I don't believe that anyone is "betraying" the Muslim community by no longer believing Islam.

How can we ever kill someone because of their own religious beliefs? How can we force them to believe in God? How can we force them believe in what you may believe?

salaam

Click to expand...

IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN HADITH YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM. The Quran sayis you must obey God and the Messenger, therefore as a Muslim you have an obligation to believe in sound authentic hadith. Why dont you go join the International Submitters or whatever the followers of Rashid Khilafah call themselves, either way those who do not believe in hadith are KAFAR!

And yes Muslims are to kill those who first believe in the oneness of God then do not believe in the Oneness of God. This is apart of Islam just like it is in Judaism and Christianity whether you like it or not.

but in islam those who have no compulsion are those outside of Islam, the people of the book and the kafars. those who leave islam have been infected with a disease of the heart and mind injected by secular materialist ideologies and powers.

Re: Islam and Apostasy

BoiStop said:

Salaam,

I don't believe in Hadiths. I believe that you are not suppose to kill any apostate. The Quran talks clearly about the Apostate and no where does it say to kill them. THere is no compulsion in Islam at all. And I don't believe that anyone is "betraying" the Muslim community by no longer believing Islam.

How can we ever kill someone because of their own religious beliefs? How can we force them to believe in God? How can we force them believe in what you may believe?

salaam

Click to expand...

oh yeah by the way if you dont believe in hadith, how do you pray? you cant practice islam without the hadith.

Why do some people completely reject hadith?

i am wondering why? they only go by what the Quran says. and conclude that all what the prophet said along from Bukhari and the rest as fabricated

---

the Prophet (saw) said "follow the Quran and my sunnah" and in hadiths we learn bout his sunnah,

also the hadiths explain the Quran, i.e - in bukhari you have a whole chapter explaining the quran and the virtues of reading it!!

but one reason why people reject it, its because many people follow hadiths & 4get d Quran,

chacha_jalebi said:

---
the Prophet (saw) said "follow the Quran and my sunnah" and in hadiths we learn bout his sunnah,

also the hadiths explain the Quran, i.e - in bukhari you have a whole chapter explaining the quran and the virtues of reading it!!

but one reason why people reject it, its because many people follow hadiths & 4get d Quran,

Click to expand...

Agree with you ,

Re: Islam and Apostasy

Salaam Samobosna96,

samobosna96 said:

IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN HADITH YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM.

Click to expand...

And please give me the Quran verse that states that in order to be a Muslim you must believe in hadiths (the ones recorded by Muslim and Buhkari, etc). Please give me the Quran verse. Please give me the Quran verse that talks about Buhkari and the others that have recorded hadiths. With all due respect, where have these people been mentioned in the QUran? Who has given them authority? Does God speak of them?

But anyways... all that I really would like is the Quran verse that states in order to be a Muslim you must believe in the hadiths recoreded years after the Prophet's death.

The Quran sayis you must obey God and the Messenger, therefore as a Muslim you have an obligation to believe in sound authentic hadith.

Click to expand...

Of course we must obey the Messenger. I totally agree.

But like at what you are saying "authentic". Why would God leave it up to us to decide what is authentic and what is not authentic? See there are "fabricated" hadiths and "authentic" hadiths, who are we to decide what is authentic and what is not? What you going to do if there was a hadith that was acutally "authentic" but yet people labeled it as "fabricated"? What if God questioned you on that? What are you going to say? Why not just accept all of the hadiths??

Why dont you go join the International Submitters or whatever the followers of Rashid Khilafah call themselves, either way those who do not believe in hadith are KAFAR!

Click to expand...

Excuse me but why exactly are you so hostile? Who teaches you to be hostile exactly? You should be more respectful in your tone. I'm not an International Submitter nor do I follow Rashid Khalifah.


And again, please give me the Quran verse that states that those who do not believe in hadiths (the ones recorded by Buhkari, etc) are nonbelievers? The Quran tells me what a believer is, and I don't remember reading that.

And yes Muslims are to kill those who first believe in the oneness of God then do not believe in the Oneness of God. This is apart of Islam just like it is in Judaism and Christianity whether you like it or not.

Click to expand...

But it is definitly not in the Quran, that is for sure. It is your "authentic" hadiths that have been declared authentic by man.

If you'd really like to go into this discussion you should start another thread, I don't wish to hijack the original posters thread.
salaam

Re: Islam and Apostasy

Salaam Samobosna96,

samobosna96 said:

oh yeah by the way if you dont believe in hadith, how do you pray? you cant practice islam without the hadith.

Click to expand...

There are verses in the Quran that talk about salat and how to perform it.

But anyways, do you even know what hadiths say about salat? There isn't a hadith that specifically talks about how to make salat the whole way through. Rathar there is a compilation of hadiths that tell you what to do... But even these hadiths do not tell you how to do it step for step, in what order... it's just puzzled together.

salaam

Salaam Al-Fateh,

I can't speak for all, but I can tell you personally why I have rejected hadiths.
There are a number of reasons of course.

For one thing I do not believe that the Quran tells us to follow hadiths. I also do not believe that God would leave us (human beings) to sort through all of the so called saying of the Messenger and leave it up to us to decide what is fabricated and what is not fabricated. Just don't believe that at all.

Also there are plenty of hadiths that contradict eachother... and many people have their own version of the same hadiths aswell. Also there are many hadiths that even contradict the Quran.

Also this is word of mouth. This is what people have said other people said about the Messenger... who are we to take their word for it?

But anyways, it all goes back to the Quran. I've never read of Buhkari in the Quran. I've never read that there are other books to be followed aswell. Nope, not at all. And you've never read of this in the Quran aswell.

salaam

Please see the following, you will find many Qur'an verses there:

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-divisions/1063-general-article-status-sunnah-islam.html

And please keep this thread respectful Insha'Allaah.

I agree with boistop, well said I dont believe you need to refer to anything except god through koran only.

Salaam,

Those verses only speak of the Messenger and obeying him. I don't disagree with obeying the Messenger. What I disagree with are the hadiths that claim to be the sayings and actions of the Prophets. Prove to me how those hadiths are mandated in the Quran... prove to me how God mandated those things. You can find plenty of verse speaking of the Messenger, but which ones do you get the belief that hadiths are given authority and are meant to be followed.

Do you honestly believe that GOd has left us to sort out which hadiths are fabricated and which are not???

salaam

Salaam,

Also the link that I was referred to went about calling hadiths the sayings and actions of the Messenger. Don't you know that even the Quran refers to itself as a hadith????

salaam

BoiStop said:

Salaam,

Those verses only speak of the Messenger and obeying him. I don't disagree with obeying the Messenger. What I disagree with are the hadiths that claim to be the sayings and actions of the Prophets. Prove to me how those hadiths are mandated in the Quran... prove to me how God mandated those things. You can find plenty of verse speaking of the Messenger, but which ones do you get the belief that hadiths are given authority and are meant to be followed.

Do you honestly believe that GOd has left us to sort out which hadiths are fabricated and which are not???

salaam

Click to expand...

sister, if your heart doesnt believe a certain hadiths, then dont follow it cos d hearts always rite blud!!

some ppl reject hadiths cos dey dnt like wot it says, i.e - some ppl say listenin 2 music isnt mentioned in d quran, but in hadiths it is mentioned, so cos its not mentioned directly in quran its k, but it isn!!! i tink sum ppl reject hadiths bcos dey wana change d religion 2 suit dem

For one thing I do not believe that the Quran tells us to follow hadiths. I also do not believe that God would leave us (human beings) to sort through all of the so called saying of the Messenger and leave it up to us to decide what is fabricated and what is not fabricated. Just don't believe that at all.

Click to expand...

Ya wah??...The Prophet [Pbuh] was chosen by Allah to be the recipient of His final revelation to mankind. Ofcourse, without doubt the Quran is the the centrepiece in a Muslim's life. The message is the Quran, which shows us the basic requirements and laws by thy Lord and the Messenger being the person showing us how to implement/enact these requirements. We are told in the Quran that the blessed Prophet [Pbuh] did not speak of his own desires:

"By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being mislead, nor does he say [anything] of his [own] desire. It is no less than an inspiration sent down to him" [Surah an-Najm 53:1-4]

All of his utterances and his sunnah was divinely inspired. He spoke nothing of his own desire except what Allah [SWT] has asked of him, to spread His message.

Also there are plenty of hadiths that contradict eachother... and many people have their own version of the same hadiths aswell. Also there are many hadiths that even contradict the Quran.

Click to expand...

Isit where? provide evidence for it please...Hadith are classified according to reliability and authinicity..Everyone has their own interpreation hence the several divisions in our society but that can be based on the Quran aswell...

Also this is word of mouth. This is what people have said other people said about the Messenger... who are we to take their word for it?

Click to expand...

No they were the utterences/occurances of the Prophet [Pbuh] recorded by pious devout Muslims..these were some poeple who loved the Prophet dearly...

"The Prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves" [Surah Al-Ahzab [33:6]

SubhanAllah, they clearly had much love for the Prophet [Pbuh] and they would not base his words and record it on fabricated lies...May Allah bless their souls and give all of them high ranks in Jannnah as He has promised and Verily Allah never breaks His promise..

But anyways, it all goes back to the Quran. I've never read of Buhkari in the Quran. I've never read that there are other books to be followed aswell. Nope, not at all. And you've never read of this in the Quran aswell.

Click to expand...

The Quran sends the basic outlines of how to become a good Muslim and the hadeeth and Sunnah shows how to put it into practice..Whether you disregard them; your final judgment is from Allah but i sincerely advise you to think twice before making such a decision...The Prophet [Pbuh] only spoke of what Allah had asked of him...

The Prophet [Pbuh] declared in his farewell address: "Convey to others even if it is a single verse from me"...

Peace x

sister bus stop can i ask ya, do u reject hadiths then?

n heavyyy sis maz i woz jus gona say dat :embarrass

To those that were born into Islam, the Hadeeth is a very natural part of Islam. To those of us who are newbies, initialy the Hadeeth are very confusing.

Keep in mind with many of us newbies, we do not even know or even heard of the Hadeeth until we have been Muslim for a while.

Be patient with those of us who are mere babies in Islam. We are newborns into the true world. Give us time to learn and understand. With a baby you do not expect them to know what an encyclopedia is when they first begin to talk. They have to take first steps.

To those that are more knowledgabel in Islam, please help us newbies by stating the Hadeeth, but do not stop with just quoting a line give us reference as to why and how it came about, why we know it is true.

It is frustrating to be a guiding parent, under the best of conditions. If you are a person blessed with knowledge in Islam, it also gives you responsibility. Your role becomes like that of a guiding parent. But, this is a little more difficult, as now your "children" may be older then you and can be very stubborn. Teach and guide us with love, patience and understanding.

"By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being mislead, nor does he say [anything] of his [own] desire. It is no less than an inspiration sent down to him" [Surah an-Najm 53:1-4]

Hadith is the utterances occurances etc of the Prophet [Pbuh] as we have acknowledged, upon readin this i was shocked...How can one deny that the Prophet spoke of great wisdom, consequently written and compiled into a book??..
That is how the Quran came about did it not?...the Prophet [Pbuh] memorised the verses and it was written by the Sahabah...is someone to deny that aswell? Yeesh

Lol course ya were chacha_ jalebi, twas on the tip of yo toungye/keyboard eh eh eh
Peace x

Salaam x Maz x,

x Maz x said:

Ya wah??...The Prophet [Pbuh] was chosen by Allah to be the recipient of His final revelation to mankind.

Click to expand...

See this another thing about hadiths that really urks me. Alot of times those who are into hadith are very in love with the Messenger a whole lot. They can quote the hadiths like crazy, but can't quote the Quran like crazy aswell. But even more, their love for the MEssenger is quite evident in the way that they speak.

You put a blessing behind the Prophet's name, but you do not put anytype of blessing when you mention God.

Seriously, values seem to be shifted.

The message is the Quran, which shows us the basic requirements and laws by thy Lord and the Messenger being the person showing us how to implement/enact these requirements.

Click to expand...

Surah 18:54
We have explained in detail in this Quran for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

We are told in the Quran that the blessed Prophet [Pbuh] did not speak of his own desires:

"By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being mislead, nor does he say [anything] of his [own] desire. It is no less than an inspiration sent down to him" [Surah an-Najm 53:1-4]

Click to expand...

I don't accuse the Messenger of speaking out of his own desire.

What I believe is that these hadiths are not from the Messenger at all.

Isit where? provide evidence for it please...Hadith are classified according to reliability and authinicity..Everyone has their own interpreation hence the several divisions in our society but that can be based on the Quran aswell...

Click to expand...

I won't quote the hadiths becauase then it would cause a sect argument and we're not suppose to talk about sects here.

No they were the utterences/occurances of the Prophet [Pbuh] recorded by pious devout Muslims..these were some poeple who loved the Prophet dearly...

Click to expand...

And please give me the verse in the Quran that talks about them and how they are suppose to record his sayings down.

And again, you have absoloutly no proof that these sayings are really what they had said. None at all. You rely on man to confirm your faith.

SubhanAllah, they clearly had much love for the Prophet [Pbuh] and they would not base his words and record it on fabricated lies..

Click to expand...

But obviously that must be the case since there are "weak" hadiths and "strong" hadiths. If that wasn't the case then all "hadiths" would be accpeted correct? Yes. So your idea that becuase such and such may have loved him so much and thereofre never lie on him has been proven false. Becuase agian if that was the case, all "hadiths" will be authentic, and there would be no such thing as "fabricated" hadiths in the first place. No need for a "science" on hadith and people going about to check the authentication. Right? Yes. But obviously there is.

The Quran sends the basic outlines of how to become a good Muslim and the hadeeth and Sunnah shows how to put it into practice..

Click to expand...

You keep saying "basic". The Quran clearly says that it explains everything in detail. There's nothing "basic" about it.


salaam

Salaam x Maz x,

x Maz x said:

"By the star when it goes down, your companion is neither astray nor being mislead, nor does he say [anything] of his [own] desire. It is no less than an inspiration sent down to him" [Surah an-Najm 53:1-4]

Click to expand...

Again, this verse does not establish that hadiths are too be followed. Neither does it establish the authenticity of them aswell.

Hadith is the utterances occurances etc of the Prophet [Pbuh] as we have acknowledged,

Click to expand...

And they were written down years after the Messenger's death. Even more, isn't there a hadith that even says that the Messenger demanded that people not record what he is saying??? Yes.

And hadiths are not the utterance orccursance of the Prophet. What they are are sayings of people who claim that the Messenger said and did such and such.

upon readin this i was shocked...How can one deny that the Prophet spoke of great wisdom, consequently written and compiled into a book??..

Click to expand...

Please quote the Quran verse that goes about and demands that people do this?? PLease quote the Quran that talks about folllowing the haidths that Buhkari had written. PLease quote them.

What verse in the Quran tells you to follow these hadiths???

The Quran tells you that it is clear and in detailed. The Quran even says that the Quran is the only thing divinly inpsired to the Messenger.

That is how the Quran came about did it not?...the Prophet [Pbuh] memorised the verses and it was written by the Sahabah...is someone to deny that aswell? Yeesh

Click to expand...

Please not that Bukhari was not apart of the MEssenger's Sahabah.


salaam

sista busstop so do u reject hadiths?