Debate: Why do some people completely reject hadith?

[BoiStop]

Salaam Woodrow,

To those that were born into Islam, the Hadeeth is a very natural part of Islam. To those of us who are newbies, initialy the Hadeeth are very confusing.

Keep in mind with many of us newbies, we do not even know or even heard of the Hadeeth until we have been Muslim for a while.

There are many born and raised Muslims who reject hadiths, myself being one of them. Yes, accepting hadiths is very natural if you blindly follow and refuse to find the authority of hadiths in the Quran. But once you start reading and start asking questions like:

1.) Who is Bukhari and gave him authority?
2.) If hadiths are divine, why are their fabricated ones?
3.) If hadiths are divine, why not folllow all of them?
4.) Why are there are hadiths that contradict the QuraN/
5.) Why are the hadiths that contradict the Quran, sometimes considered to have aborgated the Quran?
6.) Why would God leave men to sort out the weak and strong haidths?
7.) Where does the Quran establish hadiths?
8.) If the Quran was the only thing inspired to the Messenger, then why are there other books to follow?


Things become complicated and you realize that something is awfully wrong. Especially when people can only say that the Messenger does not speak from his own deisre.

salaam

 

[BoiStop]

My name is not BUSstop. Didn't I just tell you about mocking or was the someone else???

salaam

 

[chacha_jalebi]

There are many born and raised Muslims who reject hadiths, myself being one of them. salaam

so u reject hadiths?

can i ask u do u belive dat d dajjal will come?

sowy sis boi stop sowwy lol

 

[x Maz x]

See this another thing about hadiths that really urks me. Alot of times those who are into hadith are very in love with the Messenger a whole lot. They can quote the hadiths like crazy, but can't quote the Quran like crazy aswell. But even more, their love for the MEssenger is quite evident in the way that they speak.

You put a blessing behind the Prophet's name, but you do not put anytype of blessing when you mention God.

Seriously, values seem to be shifted.

Whats that gotta do wit hadiths? That is the peoples mentality, I havent come accross any hadith sayin 'memorise this and dont learnt the Quran'...there is no competition between the hadith and Quran, they both compliment eachother..

What I believe is that these hadiths are not from the Messenger at all.
LOOOOOOOOOL *DEEEEEEP BREATH*...who are they from? Me?

And again, you have absoloutly no proof that these sayings are really what they had said. None at all. You rely on man to confirm your faith.

Whats gwanin?? Ya gonna deny the existance of the Sahabah nex aswell?? My 'proof' is tha fact that i have faith that the Prophet had companions who recorded his sayings

But obviously that must be the case since there are "weak" hadiths and "strong" hadiths. If that wasn't the case then all "hadiths" would be accpeted correct? Yes. So your idea that becuase such and such may have loved him so much and thereofre never lie on him has been proven false. Becuase agian if that was the case, all "hadiths" will be authentic, and there would be no such thing as "fabricated" hadiths in the first place. No need for a "science" on hadith and people going about to check the authentication. Right? Yes. But obviously there is.

Oh dear, mis-conceptions left right and centre *eyes rolly*...have a look at the definitions of the words Might help your clouded mind
Sahih [Correct]: a hadith narraated by people well known for their integrity of charachter, learning and memory and which also has a continuos chain of reliable insad -In its class, it is the most reliable hadith

Hasan [Accepted]: A hadith similar to sahih hadith but narrated by people who are lsihgtly less reputed for their intergrity of character, learning or memory- It is also a reliable hadith but occupies a position next to that of sahih

Dha'eef [weak]: A hadith narrated by peopl whose characters are not well known or a hadith which has defects in its sanad - In its class, it occupies a position next to that of hasan.

I suggest you reserch the whole topic of ilm al -hadith InshAllah...

I won't quote the hadiths becauase then it would cause a sect argument and we're not suppose to talk about sects here.
So in other words you have no sufficient evidence to back your claim *eyes rolly*

Again, this verse does not establish that hadiths are too be followed. Neither does it establish the authenticity of them aswell.

We are going in circles really arent we...*eyes rolly*

And they were written down years after the Messenger's death. Even more, isn't there a hadith that even says that the Messenger demanded that people not record what he is saying??? Yes.

And hadiths are not the utterance orccursance of the Prophet. What they are are sayings of people who claim that the Messenger said and did such and such

No they were written and compiled in books regardin their autnicity and classified according to how reliable they were AFTER the Prophet [Pbuh] but were written at the time of the event...
Well everyones entitled to their opnion *eyes rolly*
Quotes for that claim please

Let me research more inshAllah and provide you with evidence concerning this matter...Have saabr...as stated in hadith or will you not do that? Peac x




You keep saying "basic". The Quran clearly says that it explains everything in detail. There's nothing "basic" about it.

No, the Prophet guided the people at that time but also showed them how to enact his message and put them into practice

 

[chacha_jalebi]

BRAP BRAP

*salutes 2 sista maz* (i told her wot 2 write) lol


sister boistop come on man, we know that RasoolAllah (saw) actually told Hadhrat Amr Ibn Al Aas (ra) 2 write down wot he was sayin, so he could tell it 2 others wen he went 4 da'wah. also in the Quran it says

"obey God and His messenger" - surah al ahzab

& der r bare verses in d quran which say obey d messenger (saw)

n d people dat narrated these hadiths are mainly sahaba, we hav Hadhrat Aisha (ra) who narrated over 1000 hadiths, also Abu Huraira (ra) narrated many hadiths, do do you tink these sahaba could tell a lie? NO DEY CANT

not all hadiths are authentic... agreed, dats y dey r classified in 2 3 categories of sahih, hasan n dhaeef,

also theres a HADITHS, which is sahih, n on top of that its narrated by Abu Huraira (ra) a sahabi, so i tink dat makes it 100% accurate... look

Narrated Abu Huraira:
I said to Allah's Apostle "I hear many narrations (Hadiths) from you but I forget them." Allah's Apostle said, "Spread your Rida' (garment)." I did accordingly and then he moved his hands as if filling them with something (and emptied them in my Rida') and then said, "Take and wrap this sheet over your body." I did it and after that I never
forgot any thing

its related in Bukhari in book number 1, hadiths 120 i tink, but anyway it proves dat RasoolAllah (saw) didnt stop him from narratin his sayings & he encouraged him 2 do so

 

[Looking4Peace]

There are plenty of Muslims who dont pay much mind to the hadith and as woodrow says mainly new converts. When i first reverted I did not want to follow it, this was because some of the things were very difficult for me as being new in Islam. I have now started to pick it up again. Again just as i stated in other posts it is wrong to say someone is not Muslim. That is not your place or job.

 

[x Maz x]

BRAP BRAP

*salutes 2 sista maz* (i told her wot 2 write) lol


sister boistop come on man, we know that RasoolAllah (saw) actually told Hadhrat Amr Ibn Al Aas (ra) 2 write down wot he was sayin, so he could tell it 2 others wen he went 4 da'wah. also in the Quran it says

"obey God and His messenger" - surah al ahzab

& der r bare verses in d quran which say obey d messenger (saw)

LOL!...Yeh he did ...let him take the credit, needs all de popularity he can get kay:

Yup aggreed...
ffended: U dun beleive in the hadith Peace x

 

[chacha_jalebi]

LOL!...Yeh he did ...let him take the credit, needs all de popularity he can get kay:

sister lol


sis boistop look @ me post i edited it, and added somemore stuff in, i tink u sudnt go round sayin hadiths sud b rejected, because u sed who gav Hadhrat Imam Bukhari (ra) d authority 2 write hadiths, well i ask kay:

who gav u d authority 2 say hadiths r wrong?

RasoolAllah (saw) sed, "if u hear 1 thin from me narrate it forward" dats wot imam Bukhari (ra) was doin sis

i think u sud read more about islam, inshallah

 

[BoiStop]

Salaam x Maz x,

Whats that gotta do wit hadiths? That is the peoples mentality, I havent come accross any hadith sayin 'memorise this and dont learnt the Quran'...there is no competition between the hadith and Quran, they both compliment eachother..

I was talking about a social issue dealing with hadiths.

LOOOOOOOOOL *DEEEEEEP BREATH*...who are they from? Me?

Why do you going about and mocking? That's haraam.

Anyways...

Of course you think that they are from the MEssenger. But I do not believe so. I believe that they are lies.

It's really hard talking to you when you insist on mocking. It's hard to take you seriously because you seem to add nothing to this debate by meaningless questions. Your questions offer no proof that they really are from the Messenger. So "LOL" all that you like... you still have not provided any evidence besides "His sahaba loved him" that they are really sayings of the MEssenger, and that his Sahaba really said those things.

My 'proof' is tha fact that i have faith that the Prophet had companions who recorded his sayings

But where did you get this faith from? Does the Quran tell you this? If so, where? Now you are using somehting besides the Quran to establish your faith!

Where in the Quran does it say that the Sahaba will do this??? Where does it demand them to do this? You have no source to back up your reason for having faith in them. The Quran definitly did not tell you this. You are putting your faith in the hands of man and calling their sayings "divine".

Do you not see how unexcusable your reasoning is?

I'm quite sure that even the scholars you look up to would take a double take on what you are saying. At least they would establish their position by using the Quran... Now you are completly setting up your faith without the need for Quran to tell you this. Wow.

Sahih [Correct]: a hadith narraated by people well known for their integrity of charachter, learning and memory and which also has a continuos chain of reliable insad -In its class, it is the most reliable hadith

Hasan [Accepted]: A hadith similar to sahih hadith but narrated by people who are lsihgtly less reputed for their intergrity of character, learning or memory- It is also a reliable hadith but occupies a position next to that of sahih

Dha'eef [weak]: A hadith narrated by peopl whose characters are not well known or a hadith which has defects in its sanad - In its class, it occupies a position next to that of hasan.

Look at what you just suggest Dha'eef is... WEAK. What do you think that means? Do you htink that it's accepted just as much as Sahih (correct)?

So in other words you have no sufficient evidence to back your claim *eyes rolly*

Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, " The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over
the other while lying down on his back "


Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his
back in the mosque while crossing his legs."

Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."

Sahih Moslem

Ibn Abbas said, "The messenger of God drank from the water of Zamzam while standing up...." Sahih Moslem.

In Bukhary, vol.1

" There will not be on the surface of Earth after one hundred years, one newborn (or created) human being.

No they were written and compiled in books regardin their autnicity and classified according to how reliable they were AFTER the Prophet [Pbuh] but were written at the time of the even...

So you follow weak hadiths aswell??

salaam

 

[BoiStop]

Salaam,

Again, can any of you all establish hadiths through the Quran? can of you?

salaam

 

[BoiStop]

Salaam Alpha Dude,

Salam,
Why then do you believe in the Qur'an, it was passed on by the same people, no?

I don't believe the Quran was word of mouth. I believe that it was always written down whenever a verse was revealed. I also believe that God has protected it. There is nothing to establish hadiths from Quran.

salaam

 

[x Maz x]

I was talking about a social issue dealing with hadiths.

Well you could have clarified this inshAllah, it would have helped but either way hadith are based upon Quranic teachings and either way are benficial to us beings

Why do you going about and mocking? That's haraam.

Anyways...

Of course you think that they are from the MEssenger. But I do not believe so. I believe that they are lies.

It's really hard talking to you when you insist on mocking. It's hard to take you seriously because you seem to add nothing to this debate by meaningless questions. Your questions offer no proof that they really are from the Messenger. So "LOL" all that you like... you still have not provided any evidence besides "His sahaba loved him" that they are really sayings of the MEssenger, and that his Sahaba really said those things.

I am sorry if i appeared somewhat mocking, i did not mean to question your intelligence God forbid, I was simply making a point that to me it seems so vivid and kinda funny
Did you not read the QURANIC verse about the Prophet [Pbuh] being closer to his companions then his ownself??

But where did you get this faith from? Does the Quran tell you this? If so, where? Now you are using somehting besides the Quran to establish your faith!

Where in the Quran does it say that the Sahaba will do this??? Where does it demand them to do this? You have no source to back up your reason for having faith in them. The Quran definitly did not tell you this. You are putting your faith in the hands of man and calling their sayings "divine".

Do you not see how unexcusable your reasoning is?

I'm quite sure that even the scholars you look up to would take a double take on what you are saying. At least they would establish their position by using the Quran... Now you are completly setting up your faith without the need for Quran to tell you this. Wow.

Okey I need you to answer me sumin' den i will respond to those rehtorical questions
1) How doya fink the Quran was compiled?
2) Do you think the Sahabah existed?



So you follow weak hadiths aswell??
No i take opionions from renowned scholars who have studied the hadith in depth and i base my final verdict after having looked at a collection of hadeeth inshAllah

Gaber Ibn Abdullah said, " The messenger of God prohibited a man from crossing one leg over
the other while lying down on his back "


Ebada Ibn Tameem said , his father said that he saw the messenger of God lying down on his
back in the mosque while crossing his legs."

Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said, "Do not drink while standing up, if someone forgot and did it, he should vomit what he drank."


Post the sources and in what book of hadith they are found inshAllah
Peace x

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Rejection of Ahadith


Why do some people reject hadith? The answer is quite simple - ignorance. Hadith-rejectors are not scholars who have studied the sciences of Hadith and the meticulous system of classification behind them. They are laymen who have no education in Islamic sciences, come across some hadith that they don't understand or that seems problematic to them, and conseuqently they conclude "It doesn't make sense to me, therefore it can't be true!"

And please give me the Quran verse that states that in order to be a Muslim you must believe in hadiths

The problem is you do not understand what the hadith and the hadith compilations are. The Qur'an commands us to follow the way of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and accept his teachings. In fact it negates the faith of anyone who fails to do so:

4:65 But no, by your Lord (O Muhammad), they have no Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

Please give me the Quran verse that talks about Buhkari and the others that have recorded hadiths. With all due respect, where have these people been mentioned in the QUran? Who has given them authority? Does God speak of them?

This is another one of your miscocneptions. We don't accept the hadith in Sahih Bukhari because they were compiled by Imaam Bukhari. We accept them because they have gone through the most rigorous process of authentication by the scholars, and the efforts of the Muslim scholars for over a millenia have confirmed their authenticity. You misunderstand the function of the compilers of hadith - they were collecting the hadith that had already been recorded and transmitted and after authenticating them included them in their collection. And the efforts of the hadith scholars were built on the efforts of those who preceded them and confirmed by the efforts of those who came after them. Why hasn't Sahih Ibn Hibban achieved the status of Sahih Bukhari? Was it because Imam Ibn Hibban was any less of a scholar? No, it is because the hadith in Sahih Ibn Hibban went through the authentication process and the scholars found some hadith to be inauthentic, so overall the compilation does not hold the same status as Sahih Bukhari which has unanimously been upheld to be completely authentic by the Muslim scholars.

...the hadiths recoreded years after the Prophet's death.

Myth. The hadith were recorded during the Prophet's lifetime by the companions; see br. kadafi's post here:
ALL MYTHS ABOUT AHADEETH DEBUNKED HERE

Why would God leave it up to us to decide what is authentic and what is not authentic?

He didn't leave it up to you - you don't understand the rigorous process behind the authentication of hadith because you have never studied that science. Yet for some reason you have the audacity to pass judgement on a subject you are ignorant of! Ahadith are not authenticated by some randomized process - the content as well as the chain of narration for each hadith is studied carefully to determine its authenticity, and this isn't done by just one scholar - this is the collective efforts of all the Muslim hadith scholars throughout Islamic history.

Another point - it is always amusing to note hadith rejectors says, "But some of these hadith contradict the Qur'an". They forget that one of the requirements for a hadith's authenticity is that it be in accordance with the Qur'an, so the scholars of hadith already checked that before passing their judgement on it. What a hadith rejector really means when they make such a comment is that the hadith contradicts their ill-informed and mistaken understanding of the Qur'an.

See the following thread where three hadith rejectors' arguments were utterly devastated:
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/15909-hadith-women.html
They made the claim that some authentic hadith contradicted the Qur'an, but they failed to provide even a single example to support their claim.

Prove to me how those hadiths are mandated in the Quran... prove to me how God mandated those things.

You're asking the wrong question. If we agree that God mandated for us to follow the Prophet pbuh, then the question should be whether these hadith are authentic in what they ascribe to the Prophet. By mandating obedience to the Prophet, God has mandated for us to follow all of the sayings and teachings of the Prophet which have been authentically transmitted to us.

Surah 18:54
We have explained in detail in this Quran for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

If you think this verse is saying that there is no need for information beyond the Qur'an, then you haven't read the entire Qur'an:

Qur'an 16:44 And We have also sent down unto you the reminder, that you may tubayyina (EXPLAIN CLEARLY) to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought.

If al that we need was the verses of the Qur'an, then why would Allah swt ordain for the Prophet pbuh to explain what had been revealed? This clearly means that the explanations are themselves divinely ordained by Allah.

For more information, please refer to br. kadafi's post which concisely debunks the prevalent myths amongst hadith rejectors:
http://www.islamicboard.com/212874-post5.html

 

[x Maz x]

Braaap Braaaaaap Braaaaaap Respect blessed Akhi!...Well said MashAllah Peace x

 

[Sohrab]

>rule17

Sister Boistop!

My advice to you would be pray to Allah sincerely to give you Guidance. I'm sure if you ask for it sincerely, inshAllah it will help you a lot.

Well wisher

 

[Looking4Peace]

When i first read the Qur'an i understoond much of it perfectly fine except for a few things here and there, it was when i read the hadith was when confusion set it. Moral of the story, reverts do not always understand it as easily opposed to people who were a Muslim from birth. I do not think its true that a person cannot understand one without the other, that was not my experience anyway.

 

[Looking4Peace]

Salam,
I think that if one were to reject the hadith and make their own interpretations on what the Qur'an says, then no doubt there will end up being large differences in terms of what is being practiced. These differences would, IMHO adversely affect the progress towards unity...

I agree to an extent , but just as you say without the hadith there will be large differences in terms of what is being practiced by muslims?
Doesnt this happen regardless just from simple interpretation differences by people everyday. Also how about cultural differences in how some muslims practice, for example some muslim countries still have barbaric practices that have nothing to do with Islam, but claim it does for their own agendas.
To put simply there will always be differences in how peopple understand something.

 

[samobosna96]

There are plenty of Muslims who dont pay much mind to the hadith and as woodrow says mainly new converts. When i first reverted I did not want to follow it, this was because some of the things were very difficult for me as being new in Islam. I have now started to pick it up again. Again just as i stated in other posts it is wrong to say someone is not Muslim. That is not your place or job.

------ There is only one Islam and that is the Islam that there Prophet and his Companions were on, people who reject hadiths are far from the Islam of Prophet Muhammad. There are 73 sects and only one is saved, the People of the Sunnah.

------

Actually it is my place and job to tell you what you are saying is taking you out of the fold of Islam. As Muslims we check our ideas with other Muslims to make the sure the Shaytan is not perverting our Islam. Muslims have rights over other Muslims to make sure they are on the Islam of the Prophet and if that means I have to be blunt about it I'll do it. Although I will admit that it is better for a scholar to do since he has studied over 16 years to become a schlar but if I see something that is wrong like rejecting hadith I have a duty to make you aware of your innovation in religion.

You see the Prophet Muhammad came to fulfill the Prophet of Deutaronamy where every word and action would be written down. The Prphet is an example in word and deed. You need the hadith to implement Islam in your life and if you reject hadith then you have innovated your faith.

There is a science to the hadith Boistop which has been touched on by others through the character, his actions and past and so on. I cant remember this off by heart but I think it is narrated that Abu Hurayra came to get hadith from a man and by the way he treated his camel he refused to believe him. There are very sound methodolgies to understanding the compiliation of hadith and to reject them is to reject Islam as a whole. You cannot accept one aspect of Islam then refuse another, it is everything or nothing. Islam is a whole package. If a person were to refuse to believe in the Prophet hood of Jesus (AS) then he refuses to believe in the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS), it is the same logic with the hadith.

The other Brothers and sisters have given you good verses where it is proven that you must obey the messenger ------. You must take the Quran and Sunnah to implement Islam thats plain and simple. We as Muslims do not have to read all the hadith to determine which ones are authentic or not the Prophets Companions have done it for us. Next your probably going to tell us that because Abu Bakr compiled the ayah of Quran into one Book the Quran is to be rejected too. The Prophet Muhammad didnt make the recitations into a book, it was Abu Bakr with the help of the head scrib, and later through Umar. So will you reject the Quran now?

------

Islam is a complete way of life, please stop trying to reform or change Islam because you cant and wont, Allah SWT has done it for mankind Himself.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Reminder - Please lay off the sectarian discussion. If it continues, this thread must be closed.

13. No sectarian issues allowed. We are promoting the unity of Islam. Allah (Exalted is He) said in Surah Al-An'âm, verse 159:

Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad -- Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do.

 

[M H Kahn]

Salaam Al-Fateh,

Also there are plenty of hadiths that contradict eachother... and many people have their own version of the same hadiths aswell. Also there are many hadiths that even contradict the Quran.

Also this is word of mouth. This is what people have said other people said about the Messenger... who are we to take their word for it?

salaam

Hadiths are mostly hearsays collected by some individuals of their own around two hundred years after the death of Muhammed (pbuh). With lapse of time many sayings changed into fabulous stories. This is why there are plenty of stories that not only contradict the Quran, but there are many self-contradictory stories too. You may reject these as fabricated or corrupt. But why do you reject the other sayings that do not conflict with the Quran?
The Quran says it is a fully detailed scripture, and the details includes obeying the prophet, too.​