× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Results 1 to 13 of 13 visibility 2382

refering to muslims as non muslims

  1. #1
    msgmuslim's Avatar Limited Member
    brightness_1
    Limited Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    3
    Likes Ratio
    0

    refering to muslims as non muslims

    Report bad ads?

    if one refers to a muslim as a non muslim because he doesn't follow certain pillars or perfoms certain haram acts, isnt that wrong? isn't Allah the only one that can judge weather someone is muslim or not? is there any hadith or verse from the quran regarding this matter?
    chat Quote

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    - Qatada -'s Avatar
    brightness_1
    Spread this Avatar!
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    ...travelling to the hereafter..
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    11,346
    Threads
    798
    Rep Power
    158
    Rep Ratio
    55
    Likes Ratio
    5

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims



    Insha Allaah this is useful;


    Shaykh Ahmad Fareed hafidhahullaah

    The Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "He who says to his brother 'O Disbeliever', then it returns upon one of them." [1] He also said: "And he who accuses a believer of Kufr (disbelief) then it is like killing him." [2]

    Imaam an-Nawawee said, "They differ as regards interpretation of this "returning", so it is said, "Kufr returns upon him if he is making that lawful", and this is far from the context of the narration, and it is said, "it is taken to refer to the Khawaarij", since they declare believers to be Kaafiroon (disbelievers)."[3]

    Imaam al-Haafidh (Ibn Hajr) says, "And what is correct is that the hadith (narration from the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam was said as a warning against a Muslim saying that to his brother. It is said, "What returns upon him is his speaking ill of his brother and the sin of declaring him a kaafir (disbeliever)", and this is reasonable. It is also said, "It is to be feared that this will lead him into kufr", just as it is said, "sins leads towards kufr". Thus it is feared that if he continues in that and persists in it then he will have a bad end. I prefer from these sayings that it refers to the one who says it to someone from whom nothing is known except Islaam and there is no justification or reason for him to claim that he is a kaafir. So in such a case he becomes a kaafir himself because of that, and this will be explained. So the meaning of the hadith is that his judgement of takfeer (making someone a kaafir) returns upon himself, so what is meant is takfeer not kufr. So it is as if he passed judgement of kuft upon himself since he passed this judgement on one who is like him (ie. a muslim)"[4]

    Imaam ash-Shawkaanee said, "Judging that a Muslim has left Islaam and entered into Kufr is something that is not fitting for a Muslim who believes in Allaah and the Last Day except with a proof (Burhaan) which is clearer than the daytime sun, since it is established in the authentic hadith reported by a group of Companions that he who says to his brother "O Kaafir!" Then it returns back to one of them." In another wording, "Whoever addresses a man with Kufr, or says 'Enemy of Allaah' and he is not that, then it returns back upon him"[5]

    So in these ahadith (plural of hadith) and others similar to them, there is the severest reprimand and the greatest warning against hurrying to perform takfeer. Allaah, The Mighty and Majestic says:
    " ... and such as open their breasts to disbelief ... " [Soorah an-Nahl 16:106]

    So what has to be the case is that the heart embraces kufr and is at peace with it, and the soul is satisfied with it. So the appearance of wicked beliefs only is not to be taken into account here, especially if one is ignorant of the fact that they are contrary to Islaam. Likewise account will not be taken of the appearance of an action of kufr for the one who did not intend to leave Islaam by it and enter into kufr, and likewise account will not be taken of a word spoken by a Muslim which is a saying of kufr, when he does not believe what it means."[6]

    So where do they stand those who hasten to perform takfeer of the Muslims in relation to the saying of the Messenger sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam: "Abusing a Muslim is open sin and killing him is kufr" [7] And in relation to his saying: "The Muslim is the Brother of a Muslim, he does not oppress or forsake him." [8] Also in relation to his saying: "All of the Muslim to the Muslim is inviolable; his blood, his wealth and his honour." [9] ?

    Imaam Al-Qurtubee says in his tafseer (exegesis/explanation) of Sooratul Hujuraat: " ... and His (Allaah) saying: "lest your deeds be rendered fruitless while you perceive it not'." [Soorah al-Hujuraat 49:2] does not mean that a person becomes a kaafir without knowing since just as a person does not become a believer except through choosing eemaan (faith) over kufr, then likewise a believer does not become a kaafir without intending kufr and choosing it, and there is consensus (ijma') regarding this."[10]

    Footnotes

    1. Reported by al-Bukhaaree, Muslim, Maalik, at-Tirmidhee and Abu Dawood.

    2. Reported by al-Bukhaaree.

    3. Abbreviated from an-Nawawee's "Sharh" (explanation) of Saheeh Muslim (2/50)

    4. Abbreviated from "Fathul-Baaree" (10/466)

    5. Hadith reported by Muslim (2/49 - Book of Eemaan).

    6. Taken from "as-Sailul-Jarraar" (4/578) and adapted.

    7. Reported by al-Bukhaaree and Muslim.

    8. Reported by Muslim.

    9. Reported by Muslim, Abu Daawood and at-Tirmidhee.

    10. Tafseer of al-Qurtubee (7/6128).



    http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...on-kaafir.html
    chat Quote

  4. #3
    Ummu Sufyaan's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    is in need of dua
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    rock bottom
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,926
    Threads
    817
    Rep Power
    144
    Rep Ratio
    72
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims


    just a quick question, maybe abit off topic though: what is the difference between doing an act of kufr, and being a kaafir, if there is any.

    jazakallahu khair
    chat Quote

  5. #4
    Malaikah's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldskool
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Swimming with thermus aquaticus in Yellowstone National Park
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    6,351
    Threads
    101
    Rep Power
    134
    Rep Ratio
    44
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims



    A person might commit an act of kufr, but that does not mean the person has become a kafir. For example, the person might have been ignorant that the act was an act of kufr, and assuming the person has a good excuse for being ignorant of that knowledge, then inshaallah the person would not be a kafir.

    Hope that helps!
    refering to muslims as non muslims

    wwwislamicboardcom - refering to muslims as non muslims
    chat Quote

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    NoName55's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    69
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    ^^ what is "commit an act of kufr"

    are sins acts of kufr?
    chat Quote

  8. #6
    The_Prince's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Mars, where they located the ice, it was my freezer where i keep the fish
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,279
    Threads
    75
    Rep Power
    108
    Rep Ratio
    58
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    to make it simple, any Muslim who commits major sins and says its not haram becomes a kaffir, like if he says fornication and alcohol isnt haram and he proceeds to commit these sins then he is a kaffir. however so if he says that fornication and alcohol is haram, but still commits these sins knowing hes doing wrong and deserveres a punishment then he is NOT a kaffir but has commited kufr.
    chat Quote

  9. #7
    IslamistheTruth's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    47
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    112
    Rep Ratio
    21
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    is this all similar to how many muslims consider shias to be nonmuslims? I actually hear it all the time from my own friends and especially from people on online forums.
    chat Quote

  10. #8
    IslamistheTruth's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    47
    Threads
    2
    Rep Power
    112
    Rep Ratio
    21
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    Oh and I don't mean to offend anyone when I ask this..I'm just asking since the majority of shias also consider themselves muslims.
    chat Quote

  11. #9
    tryinghard's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    Full Member
    star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    62
    Threads
    6
    Rep Power
    103
    Rep Ratio
    26
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    I've heard that too. Like if someone drinks, they are considered to be non-Muslim, I've been told. I disagree. Yes, the person has done wrong and can be considered a sinner. But, only Allah SWT knows what's in that person's heart. Perhaps he/she has repented and since changed. I know in the Quran, it is written in several places that there are groups of people that will punished alongside the non-believers and that includes people who lie, kill for no reason, etc. But, I don't think we have a right to say who's a Muslim and who's not. That's only Allah SWT's right. Who knows, we may be committing a sin if we wrongly accuse someone of being a non-Muslim.
    chat Quote

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    vpb's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Oldtimer
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    1,943
    Threads
    63
    Rep Power
    116
    Rep Ratio
    24
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    just a quick question, maybe abit off topic though: what is the difference between doing an act of kufr, and being a kaafir, if there is any.
    A person might commit an act of kufr, but that does not mean the person has become a kafir. For example, the person might have been ignorant that the act was an act of kufr, and assuming the person has a good excuse for being ignorant of that knowledge, then inshaallah the person would not be a kafir.
    it depends if it is the big kufr or the small one. the big one (act of big kufr) makes you a kafir, but the small one doesn't but is very dangerous.
    chat Quote

  14. #11
    Ummu Sufyaan's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    is in need of dua
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    rock bottom
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    7,926
    Threads
    817
    Rep Power
    144
    Rep Ratio
    72
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    format_quote Originally Posted by IslamistheTruth View Post
    is this all similar to how many muslims consider shias to be nonmuslims? I actually hear it all the time from my own friends and especially from people on online forums.
    sis.
    i think this should help answer your question
    http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=97448&ln=eng&txt=shia
    chat Quote

  15. #12
    ahsan28's Avatar Full Member
    brightness_1
    IB Senior Member
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    691
    Threads
    94
    Rep Power
    102
    Rep Ratio
    27
    Likes Ratio
    1

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    format_quote Originally Posted by IslamistheTruth View Post
    is this all similar to how many muslims consider shias to be nonmuslims? I actually hear it all the time from my own friends and especially from people on online forums.

    The scholars have different verdicts, depending upon the beliefs held by a particular person or a sub-group. To give you an example, the mainstream sunni sect considers Abubakr(RA) the best person after the family of the prophets(peace on them), still it doesn't contribute towards the essentials of faith, likewise shia minority views Ali (RA) best amongst rightly guided caliphs, still it does not figure out amongst the pillars of faith( unless one consiers it to be). I will not indulge in sectarian discussion here, cz it leads us to nowhere, besides being the wastage of time, however the two sects have major differences, upon which the consensus can't be achieved till the day of judgement, when Allah Almighty will decide the fate of the communities in the presence of their respective prophets( peace on them).

    Apart from the minor irritants, major differences, which decide the parting of ways between the two sects are :-

    1. The concept of Immamate held by Shia (The sunnis don't accept, cz it strikes at the very root of prophethood and takes some individuals equal to the prophets and even higher to them.

    2. Mutah (temp marriage). The sunnis don't accept and hold the opinion that it was banned by the prophet(pbuh) till the judgement by the orders of Allah Almighty.

    3. Compilation of Holy Quran( the two sect differ).

    4. Shia consider that many companions of the prophet(pbuh) turned their faces after prophet's departure, whereas sunnis deny these allegations.

    5. The cursing of sahaba by shia can't be tolerated, even by the moderate sunnis.


    Now if someone declares the other person kaafir, he has to be sure of other's beliefs. The learned scholars state, a person having belief in the concept of immamate and doubting about the compilation of holy quran and its alleged tehreef can't be considered as Muslim cz these beliefs take him out of the fold of Islam. So we should be careful and must avoid generalised statements.
    chat Quote

  16. #13
    NoName55's Avatar
    brightness_1
    Account Disabled
    star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate star_rate
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    2,143
    Threads
    72
    Rep Power
    0
    Rep Ratio
    69
    Likes Ratio
    0

    Re: refering to muslims as non muslims

    3. Compilation of Holy Quran( the two sect differ).
    Ahl alsunna ar not a sect. Sects are those who deviate from Quraan and Sunnah
    chat Quote


  17. Hide
Hey there! refering to muslims as non muslims Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. refering to muslims as non muslims
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-10-2010, 12:30 AM
  2. Islam Treats Muslims and Non Muslims alike. Fact or Myth?
    By justahumane in forum Clarifications about Islam
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 02-17-2009, 01:55 AM
  3. Islam extremists,,are they blessed Muslims or cursed Muslims?
    By D.Y.R#7XTRUST in forum Comparative religion
    Replies: 89
    Last Post: 02-14-2007, 06:11 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create