I dont think christians and muslims worship the same God

[PRISONERofJOY12]

and please read all*

Long before Muhammad was born, Arabic Christians already were referring to God as Allah--- and millions continue do so today. The Allah of Islam, however, is definitely not the God of the bible. For while Muslims passionately defend the unity of God they patently deny His triunity. Thus, they recoil at the notion of God as Father, reject the unique deity of Jesus Christ the son, and renounce the divine identity of the Holy Spirit.
First, while the master taught his disciples to pray " Our Father in heaven," devotees of Muhammad find the very notion offensive. To their way of thinking calling God, " Father " and Jesus Christ, " Son" suggests sexual pocreation. Accordiing to the Qur' an, "it is not befitting to ( the majesty of ) Allah that He should beget a son" ( Sura 19:25 ), Allah " begetteth not, nor is begotten" ( Sura 112:3 ). The bible however does not use the term "begotten" with respect to the Father and the Son in the sense of sexual reproduction but rather in the sense of special relationship. Thus, when the apostle John speaks of Jesus as " the only begotten of the Father" ( John 1:14 NKJV, emphasis added), he is underscoring the unique deity of Christ. Likewise, when the Apostle Paul refers to Jesus as "firstborn over all creation" (Colossians 1:15 ) he is emphasizing Christ's of all things ( Colossians 1:16-19 ). Christians are sons of God through adoption; Jesus is God the son from all eternity. Furthermore, Muslims dogmatically denounce the Christian declaration of Christ's unique deity as the unforgivable sin of shirk. as the Qur' an puts it, "God forgiveth no the sin of joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this" ( Sura 4:116). While Muslims readily affirm the sinlessness of Christ, they adamantly dney His sacrifice upon the cross and subsequent resurrection. in doing so, they deny the singular historic fact which demonstrates that Jesus does not stand in a long line of peers from Abraham to Muhammad, but is God in human flesh. The Qur'anic phrase," Allah raised him up" (Sura 4:158 ) is taken to mean that Jesus was supernaturally raptured rather than resurrected from the dead. in Islamic lore, God made someone look like Jesus, and this look-a-like was crucified in his place. In recent years, the myth that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus has been popularized in Muslim circles by a late medieval invention titled The Gospel of Barnabas. Against the weight of history and evidence the Qur' an exudes, "they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them"( Sura 4:157).
Finally, in addition to rejecting the divinity of Jesus, Islam also renounces the divine identity of the Holy Spirit. Far from being the third person of the Triune God who inspired the text of the Bible, Islam teaches that the HOly Spirit is the archangel Gabriel who dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad over a period of twenty-three years. Ironically, while the HOly Spirit who dictated the Qur'an is said to be the archangel Gabriel, Islam identifies the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14 as Muhammad. The Bible, however, roundly rejects such corruptions and misrepresentation. Biblically the Holy Spirit is neither an angel nor a mere mortal; rather he is the very God who redeems us from our sins and will one day resurrect us to life eternal ( Acts 5:3-4; Romans 8:11).

1 John 2:23
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."


Thank you agian for listening to me... Merry Christmas and happy New Years..

[akulion]

salam alaikum
well would it surprise you to know that Allah the word actually means "The God" in Arabic )denoting uniqueness and oneness) So i would not be surprised at all if people were calling God as Allah before Mohameed(sa)

Another thing - Islam began with Adam (as) not with Mohammed (sa)

Infact you will find a clear invitation in the Quran to Christians - That if indeed what you say is true then let us pray the same as Abraham used to pray and indeed Abraham used to pray none except GOD

abraham never once mentioned any sons daughters or anything. So why cant you worship same as Abraham if indeed you are truthful?

And to be honest and no offence to you (honestly) I can NEVER worship something that goes to the toilet and is the size of a germ in this universe

the universe is HUGe and humans are like little microscopic beings in the universe.

So dont think little of God - God is greatest!

Allah hu Akbar!

[azim]

Peace.

I think you're right in some respect, we don't worship the same God since Christians in essence, worship Christ as well as the Holy spirit.

Yet I think, that when you cry out to the Lord, in your darkest moments. You cry out to "the father" as you might call him. Not Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. You call to a God with NO PARTNERS. At those times, if you do have them, it is then that we worship the same God.

PS: I'm sure everyone on the board enjoys listening to people of other religions, especially Christians, whom Allah tells us are the 'closest to us'. So please stay on the forum and please keep the discussions going and God willing, it will stay civil and noble.

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

well yes we pray in the Father and then we end in Jesus name we pray Amen... so we don't worship the same...

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

[2.135] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
[2.136] Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
[2.137] If then they believe as you believe in Him, they are indeed on the right course, and if they turn back, then they are only in great opposition, so Allah will suffice you against them, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.
[2.138] (Receive) the baptism of Allah, and who is better than Allah in baptising? and Him do we serve.
[2.139] Say: Do you dispute with us about Allah, and He is our Lord and your Lord, and we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds, and we are sincere to Him.
[2.140] Nay! do you say that Ibrahim and Ismail and Yaqoub and the tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Are you better knowing or Allah? And who is more unjust than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? And Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was mentioned in the Bible and the Torah:

[7.157] Those who follow the Apostle-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.


The Qur'an is similar to the Bible in many ways, since it mentions stories of the previous prophets and has some similar passages to those of other scriptures, and this shows that it was sent by the same God:

[3.3] He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.

[5.48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

6:105 Thus do We display Our revelations that they may say (unto thee, Muhammad): "Thou hast studied," and that We may make (it) clear for people who have knowledge.

First, while the master taught his disciples to pray " Our Father in heaven," devotees of Muhammad find the very notion offensive. To their way of thinking calling God, " Father " and Jesus Christ, " Son" suggests sexual pocreation. Accordiing to the Qur' an, "it is not befitting to ( the majesty of ) Allah that He should beget a son" ( Sura 19:25 ), Allah " begetteth not, nor is begotten" ( Sura 112:3 ). The bible however does not use the term "begotten" with respect to the Father and the Son in the sense of sexual reproduction but rather in the sense of special relationship.

Please bring your evidence, either from the bible or Christian teachings, where this definition of 'begotten' is affirmed and explained like you have said.

Furthermore, Muslims dogmatically denounce the Christian declaration of Christ's unique deity as the unforgivable sin of shirk. as the Qur' an puts it, "God forgiveth no the sin of joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this" ( Sura 4:116).

Jesus never claimed divinity for himself, as the following link explains:
Comparative Religion

While Muslims readily affirm the sinlessness of Christ, they adamantly dney His sacrifice upon the cross and subsequent resurrection.

Please see the thread entitled: The Paradox Of The Resurrection

in doing so, they deny the singular historic fact which demonstrates that Jesus does not stand in a long line of peers from Abraham to Muhammad, but is God in human flesh.

Islam teaches that Jesus was a Prophet and therefore we believe that he does stand in the line of descendents between Abraham and Muhammad, peace be upon them. Your point doesn't seem to mean much except regurgigating Islamic beliefs, although in a rather strange way.

Ironically, while the HOly Spirit who dictated the Qur'an is said to be the archangel Gabriel, Islam identifies the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14 as Muhammad.

No, I don't think it does. Where is your evidence for this claim?

The Bible, however, roundly rejects such corruptions and misrepresentation. Biblically the Holy Spirit is neither an angel nor a mere mortal; rather he is the very God who redeems us from our sins and will one day resurrect us to life eternal ( Acts 5:3-4; Romans 8:11).

1 John 2:23
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

[2.97] Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel-- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers.
[2.98] Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Jibreel and Meekaeel, so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers.

[3.79] It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves).
[3.80] And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims?

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. Matthew 26:62-64
Caiaphas, the high priest said to Jesus, " Tell us if you are the Christ, the son of God". Jesus replied, " Yes. It is as you say. But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty one and coming on the clouds of heaven.
John 1:1 & 14 tells us,"In the beginning was the God , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have see His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus is God!

[Umm Yoosuf]

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. Matthew 26:62-64
Caiaphas, the high priest said to Jesus, " Tell us if you are the Christ, the son of God". Jesus replied, " Yes. It is as you say. But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty one and coming on the clouds of heaven.
John 1:1 & 14 tells us,"In the beginning was the God , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have see His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jesus is God!

I don't understand...Do you believe Jesus was God? Son of God???? God -man? Man-God?:confused:

Are you saying that Jesus is co-equal with the Father, for Jesus said: “...the Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

Dr. Zakir Naik comments on your claim as follows:

Jesus Christ (pbuh) never claimed Divinity

A study of the Christian scriptures reveals that Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity. In fact there is not a single unequivocal statement in the entire Bible where Jesus (pbuh) himself says, "I am God" or where he says, "worship me". In fact the Bible contains statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in which he preached quite the contrary. The following statements in the Bible are attributed to Jesus Christ (pbuh):


(i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]



Jesus Refuted even the Remotest Suggestion of his Divinity:

Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:

"And behold, one came and said unto him, ‘Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?’
And he said unto him, ‘Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.’ "
[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]


Jesus (pbuh) did not say that to have the eternal life of paradise, man should believe in him as Almighty God or worship him as God, or believe that Jesus (pbuh) would die for his sins. On the contrary he said that the path to salvation was through keeping the commandments. It is indeed striking to note the difference between the words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) and the Christian dogma of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus (pbuh).

God Sent Jesus' (pbuh)

The Bible mentions the prophetic nature of Jesus (pbuh) mission in the following verses:
(i)
"… and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
[The Bible, John 14:24]

(ii)
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent."
[The Bible, John 17:3]

The First Commandment is that God is One

The Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. One of the scribes once asked Jesus (pbuh) as to which was the first commandment of all, to which Jesus (pbuh) merely repeated what Moses (pbuh) had said earlier:

"Shama Israelu Adonai Ila Hayno Adonai Ikhad."
This is a Hebrew quotation, which means:
"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord."
[The Bible, Mark 12:29]

It is striking that the basic teachings of the Church such as Trinity and vicarious atonement find no mention in the Bible. In fact, various verses of the Bible point to Jesus’ (pbuh) actual mission, which was to fulfill the law revealed to Prophet Moses (pbuh). Indeed Jesus (pbuh) rejected any suggestions that attributed divinity to him, and explained his miracles as the power of the One True God.
Jesus (pbuh) thus reiterated the message of monotheism that was given by all earlier prophets of Almighty God.

NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

this is the perpose of Jesus Christ... which was the son of God because His body was made by God.. then the person who was in Him... was God.... now by you saying God couldn't do that your telling people that God can't do it... which you can't tell God what He can or cannot do.. whose words came first Christian words came first.. whose came hundreds of years after everyone else was dead ( or should I say went to Heaven )? the Qur'an...

Hebrews 10:4
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All

4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

this is the perpose of Jesus Christ... which was the son of God because His body was made by God.. then the person who was in Him... was God.... now by you saying God couldn't do that your telling people that God can't do it... which you can't tell God what He can or cannot do

I did not say God cannot do anything, rather I am disproving your claim as to what God allegedly did.

In this post of yours, you said:

and in the new testiment: 22 Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son.

firstborn son. a figure of speech indicating isreal's special relationship with God ( see jer 31:9; Hos 11:1)

If "firstborn son" is a figure of speech here, how do you know that it is not a figure of speech with regards to Jesus?



According to the Bible, God seems to have many sons:

"....Adam, which was the SON OF GOD."

Luke 3:38

"That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair..."
"And when the SONS OF GOD came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them...."

Genesis 6:2&4

"...for I (God) and a FATHER to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

Jeremiah 31:9

"...the Lord hath said unto me, (David) Thou art MY SON: this day have I BEGOTTEN thee."

Psalms 2:7

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the SONS OF GOD."

Romans 8:14

In the language of the Jew, every righteous person who followed the Will and Plan of God, was a son of God. Hence it was a metaphorical descriptive term, commonly used among the Jews.

Furthermore, the Bible also uses the word 'son' to mean descendent: It is mentioned in the Gospel of Mathew, Chapter 1 verse 1
"Jesus Christ, the son of David,....".
[Mathew 1:1]

Gospel of Luke Chapter 3, verse 23

"And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, ....."
[Luke 3:23]
So did Jesus have two fathers?The explanation of the phrase that Jesus (pbuh) was the son of David (pbuh), is that Jesus (pbuh) was a descendant of David (pbuh). ‘Son’, here means a descendant.



Yusuf Estes, a former Christian (whose radio commentary you can tune into via the main islamicboard page), comments on this issue as follows:

Bible Does Not Claim Jesus Claimed to Be Son of God

It is a fact that the words “son of God” are not found on the lips of Jesus anywhere in the first three Gospel accounts, he was always calling himself the Son of Man. And it is a curious form of reasoning that I have seen so often that it is established from Bible that he claimed to be God because - look how the Jews reacted. They will say for example he said such and such and the Jews said he is blaspheming, he claimed to be God and they tried to stone him. So they argue that he must have been claiming to be God because look ! - the Jews tried to kill him. They said that’s what he was claiming. But the interesting thing is that all the evidence is then built on the fact that a person is saying: I believed that Jesus was the son of God because the Jews who killed him said that’s what he used to say ! His enemies used to say that, so he must have said it, this is what it amounts to. In the other hand we have the words of Jesus saying he would keep the law, the law of Moses and we have the statement in the Bible, why did the Jews kill him ? Because he broke the law of Moses. Obviously the Jews misunderstood him, if he promised he would keep the law, but they killed him because he broke the law, they must have misunderstood him, or lied about him.

And lastly, the Qur'an mentions:


[6.100] And they make the jinn associates with Allah, while He created them, and they falsely attribute to Him sons and daughters without knowledge; glory be to Him, and highly exalted is He above what they ascribe (to Him).
[6.101] Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things.

whose words came first Christian words came first.. whose came hundreds of years after everyone else was dead ( or should I say went to Heaven )? the Qur'an...

Indeed, the Bible came before the Qur'an. Yet why don't we ask: whose words have remained unchanged since their revelation? Why is it that you have so many versions and alterations, whereas the Qur'an has none? The Qur'an has been described by Allaah, in verse [5:48] as 'Muhayminan'; the commentary of which (by the scholar Ibn Katheer) follows:

(and Muhayminan over it) means entrusted over it, according to Sufyan Ath-Thawri who narrated it from Abu Ishaq from At-Tamimi from Ibn `Abbas. `Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "Muhaymin is, `the Trustworthy'. Allah says that the Qur'an is trustworthy over every Divine Book that preceded it.'' This was reported from `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Mujahid, Muhammad bin Ka`b, `Atiyyah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, `Ata' Al-Khurasani, As-Suddi and Ibn Zayd. Ibn Jarir said, "The Qur'an is trustworthy over the Books that preceded it. Therefore, whatever in these previous Books conforms to the Qur'an is true, and whatever disagrees with the Qur'an is false.'' Al-Walibi said that Ibn `Abbas said that Muhayminan means, `Witness'. Mujahid, Qatadah and As-Suddi said the same. Al-`Awfi said that Ibn `Abbas said that Muhayminan means, `dominant over the previous Scriptures'. These meanings are similar, as the word Muhaymin includes them all. Consequently, the Qur'an is trustworthy, a witness, and dominant over every Scripture that preceded it. This Glorious Book, which Allah revealed as the Last and Final Book, is the most encompassing, glorious and perfect Book of all times. The Qur'an includes all the good aspects of previous Scriptures and even more, which no previous Scripture ever contained. This is why Allah made it trustworthy, a witness and dominant over all Scriptures. Allah promised that He will protect the Qur'an and swore by His Most Honorable Self,

[إِنَّا نَحْنُ نَزَّلْنَا الذِّكْرَ وَإِنَّا لَهُ لَحَـفِظُونَ ]

(Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).)

You may wish to re-read what was recently posted in this post and the part towards the ending of this one.

Hebrews 10:4
Christ's Sacrifice Once for All
...
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' "[a] 8First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

It is difficult to distinguish your biblical quotes from your own commentary here, thus I would like to point out that none of this is saying anything about Jesus claiming to be the son of God. From the above quotes, Jesus has come to do whose will? God's? The Qur'an clarifies:
[3.49] And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
[3.50] And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
[3.51] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.

12But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

So if somebody is a mass murderer in our current age, is he still "perfect"?

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

human beings are not perfect...God knows that.. salvation is a gift and not to be earned... I think your beliefs is kind of close to ours but not exactly close...

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

human beings are not perfect...God knows that.. salvation is a gift and not to be earned... I think your beliefs is kind of close to ours but not exactly close...

That's interesting, because if human beings are not perfect, why do they gain the "gift" of salvation? If everyone were to be forgiven and saved, why would God intend to create humans as imperfect in the first place?

Indeed our beliefs are quite close, but there are some major differences.

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Greetings,



That's interesting, because if human beings are not perfect, why do they gain the "gift" of salvation? If everyone were to be forgiven and saved, why would God intend to create humans as imperfect in the first place?

Indeed our beliefs are quite close, but there are some major differences.

Peace.

God wouldn't make us robots would he? and because of the blood of Jesus God overlooks our sins...
Psalm 103:12
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

God wouldn't make us robots would he? and because of the blood of Jesus God overlooks our sins...

What difference would it make if God made us perfect (not necessarily robots, but more like angels), if he has already overlooked our future sins?

The whole point of giving us a choice between right and wrong is so that God tests each of us, on an individual level, whether we strive to worship Him and obey His commands (leading to our success), or we neglect His orders (and become losers and sinners - in which case we can seek forgiveness and become good again).
Those who do more good than bad will be granted Paradise, and those who have more bad shall enter Hell.

Once you start saying things like the blood of Jesus has vouched for us all, this whole test system breaks down and doesn't make sense anymore, because it denies the whole purpose.

so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Why is there crime and transgression today then?

Peace.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Greetings,


What difference would it make if God made us perfect (not necessarily robots, but more like angels), if he has already overlooked our future sins?

The whole point of giving us a choice between right and wrong is so that God tests each of us, on an individual level, whether we strive to worship Him and obey His commands (leading to our success), or we neglect His orders (and become losers and sinners - in which case we can seek forgiveness and become good again).
Those who do more good than bad will be granted Paradise, and those who have more bad shall enter Hell.

Once you start saying things like the blood of Jesus has vouched for us all, this whole test system breaks down and doesn't make sense anymore, because it denies the whole purpose.


Why is there crime and transgression today then?

Peace.

I agree with you on most of it.. but I don't agree about doing more good than bad.. so you are saying that if a man who does not believe in a God and still does good can still get into heaven? while a man who does not do good cannot get into heaven?


Why is there crime and transgression today then?

it means after he has come to rescue us from this world everything will end there will be no sinning everyone will live... those who believe the good news..

[Abu Omar]

Sorry haven't read through the thread, but this kind of arguments are silly. First of all, those who say that Allaah (swt) isn't the god of the Christians and Jews have yet to come with the correct word for God in Arabic. Also, the Jews od Medinah, who had a tremendous hatred for the Prophet (saaws) and Islam, never accused Muslims for worshipping another god than their own.

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I agree with you on most of it.. but I don't agree about doing more good than bad.. so you are saying that if a man who does not believe in a God and still does good can still get into heaven? while a man who does not do good cannot get into heaven?

Of course, the good will only be accepted if the person is a believer.

[4.124] And whoever does good deeds whether male or female and he (or she) is a believer-- these shall enter the garden, and they shall not be dealt with a jot unjustly.

[40.40]Whoever does an evil, he shall not be recompensed (with aught) but the like of it, and whoever does good, whether male or female, and he is a believer, these shall enter the garden, in which they shall be given sustenance without measure.

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

it means after he has come to rescue us from this world everything will end there will be no sinning everyone will live... those who believe the good news..

Oh I see, so you meant so far he will remove our transgressions from us. In Islam, we also believe in a time when Jesus will descend from heaven, and this is because he did not die in the first place. We believe that he was not crucified but taken into heaven while some of his disciples watched on, and thus he shall return to die a human death when God decrees it.

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

His stay on earth will be a time of goodness and ease, when everyone will believe in God and money will flourish. We do not believe this is due to Jesus' power, but rather God's Will. Jesus is only a Prophet of God, just like Moses, Adam and Muhammad, peace be upon them all.

Peace.

[SunniMuslimah]

Well, that's right we dont worship Jesus or the Holy Spirit, we worship Allah. If the father in Christianity cant be worshipped except thru the Trinity so we cant say that we worship the same god.

But if we considered the Father in Christianity is Allah in Islam and as a separate god ffrom the trinity, we can say that we worship that same God as the Catholic church in the Vatican anounnced many years ago.

[PRISONERofJOY12]

Greetings,


Of course, the good will only be accepted if the person is a believer.

so how many good deeds do you have to do in order to be saved? I am quite sure no one can tally them up... I like the idea that being a good person will work along... but what freedom is that.. I understand... thier does come an extent of "freedom" like the people on mtv.. they take it so far.. omgosh I don't think I have seen a R rated movie that showed a girls deal since I have became a christian..

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

so how many good deeds do you have to do in order to be saved? I am quite sure no one can tally them up...

You have to do as many as you can; then on the Day of Resurrection, all of man's deeds shall be weighed:

21:47 We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account.

7:8 The balance that day will be true (to nicety): those whose scale (of good) will be heavy, will prosper:
7:9 Those whose scale will be light, will be their souls in perdition, for that they wrongfully treated Our signs.

Peace.