I dont think christians and muslims worship the same God

[azim]

I think maybe here, we're both at different ends of the same scale.

Muslims dont believe good deeds get a person into heaven. The mercy of Allah gets a person into heaven. How do we get this mercy? By doing good deeds, by deserving Allahs mercy.

Christians, correct me if I'm wrong, belief heaven can only be obtained through God's mercy. And to obtain God's mercy, one must belief Jesus died as a sacrifice for mankinds wrong doings.

The only variable between Muslims and Christians here is the doing of Good deeds.

Christiannity
Belief in Jesus = Gods mercy.
Gods mercy = Heaven

Islam
Belief in Allah + Good Deeds = Allahs Mercy
Allahs mercy = Heaven

Believe it or not, I think you (Prisoner of Joy) actually are working from the Islamic equation.

Why are you on this board? I think it's because you love God (and Jesus), and you want others to know about the wonderful God you know.

It is because you love God, that you try and do these good deeds of spreading the message of Christiannity.

Muslims do the same thing. We call it 'dawah' (means invitation, inviting to Allah). I believe Christians call it 'witness' isnt it?

If you abided by the first formula, why would you care about telling us about Christiannity?

PS: If you feel my formulas wrong, please feel free to correct it. If you think I'm being too mathamatical, ignore it.

 

[PRISONERofJOY12]

I think maybe here, we're both at different ends of the same scale.

Muslims dont believe good deeds get a person into heaven. The mercy of Allah gets a person into heaven. How do we get this mercy? By doing good deeds, by deserving Allahs mercy.

Christians, correct me if I'm wrong, belief heaven can only be obtained through God's mercy. And to obtain God's mercy, one must belief Jesus died as a sacrifice for mankinds wrong doings.

The only variable between Muslims and Christians here is the doing of Good deeds.

Christiannity
Belief in Jesus = Gods mercy.
Gods mercy = Heaven

Islam
Belief in Allah + Good Deeds = Allahs Mercy
Allahs mercy = Heaven

Believe it or not, I think you (Prisoner of Joy) actually are working from the Islamic equation.

Why are you on this board? I think it's because you love God (and Jesus), and you want others to know about the wonderful God you know.

It is because you love God, that you try and do these good deeds of spreading the message of Christiannity.

Muslims do the same thing. We call it 'dawah' (means invitation, inviting to Allah). I believe Christians call it 'witness' isnt it?

If you abided by the first formula, why would you care about telling us about Christiannity?

PS: If you feel my formulas wrong, please feel free to correct it. If you think I'm being too mathamatical, ignore it.

Have I believed in Jesus Christ as the substitute for my sins and received him as my personal Savior?

Are you trusting feelings, rather than God's Word, for assurance of salvation?

Are you basing your salvation on what you do for God, instead of what God has done for you?


We know that we have eternal life because God says we do.
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." (1 John 5:13).


We know that we have eternal life because changes have taken place in our lives since we became a Christian.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17).


We know that we have eternal life because we want to share Christ with others.

"I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile." (Romans 1:16).



We know that we have eternal life because we want to live godly lives.

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say no to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in the present age..." (Titus 2:11-12).

 

[Sabi]

With regards to the opening statement of this thread, as someon who sits on the bridge, I can see that Christians do not know that The Name that they are supposed to Hallow is Allah, and instead of Allah they only worship the Ruhullah as our Spiritual Father in Heaven. As for Muslims, a lot of them have generally forgotten a lot about the Ruhullah and it is no longer important to their lives.

 

[catmando]

From the Atheist's point of view, Christianity Islam and Judaism worship the same male skygod. They may have different attributes and different actions, but they are the same.

Otherwise there are THREE "creators" of the Universe. That cannot be.

 

[Sabi]

But that's the point Catmando, the "Male Skygod" that you refer to is not what Muslims worship. That which could be described as the "Male Skygod" is the Ruhullah that the Christians worship (I do not know enough about Judaism to make a comment), while in islamic thought Ruhullah only radiates from Allah (SWT), and it is not God, but more like a creation. Muslims believe that Nothing is like the Lah (SWT) and that there is no god but the Lah (SWT), which is neither sired nor sire. Al-Lah (SWT) is an IT, not a he. But you are right, if you mean that Allah (SWT) permeates and encompasses all creations' skies.

 

[catmando]

Whatever you say, Sabi. I'm certainly not going to argue Theology with you. I have neither the knowledge nor the urge to study a subject I believe has no relevance to Man's existence on this earth.

I WILL say, though, that Islam, Christianity and Judaism need to find ways to live together without killing each other. Christianity and Judaism have submitted their doctrines to the rule of Secular Law, and because they have, common laws have been devised to satisfy all the people. Islam so far has not done those things. Until the Mullahs submit to secular government there will be no peace on this planet.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace Catmando, and I have to agree with your sentiments despite our differences

When I walk down town I see a part of God’s creation, I see people who could be Christian, atheist, Muslims, Hindu and they have the freedom to any number of beliefs from the same God.

As such we are all related through the same God; and this should give each one of us a duty of care towards each other.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith friendship

Eric

 

[Sabi]

Salaam Eric, your sentiments are beautiful, and the sign of a true believer.

Christianity and Judaism have submitted their doctrines to the rule of Secular Law, and because they have, common laws have been devised to satisfy all the people. Islam so far has not done those things.

Alhamdulilah for that! And may that day never come inshaAllah.

Until the Mullahs submit to secular government there will be no peace on this planet.

Well lets hope and pray that the adherants to the secularist religion currently dominating the world can change their stance on this totalitarian ultimatum otherwise there will be a lot more innocent blood of the believers to be shed by them on their crusade still.

AllahuAkbar!

Don't be afraid, catmando, it is just the language of a different cultural paradigm from your own. Dialogue will improve when we learn how each paradigm uses the same language in different ways.

 

[Isa Abdullah]

and please read all*

Long before Muhammad was born, Arabic Christians already were referring to God as Allah--- and millions continue do so today. The Allah of Islam, however, is definitely not the God of the bible. For while Muslims passionately defend the unity of God they patently deny His triunity. Thus, they recoil at the notion of God as Father, reject the unique deity of Jesus Christ the son, and renounce the divine identity of the Holy Spirit.
First, while the master taught his disciples to pray " Our Father in heaven," devotees of Muhammad find the very notion offensive. To their way of thinking calling God, " Father " and Jesus Christ, " Son" suggests sexual pocreation. Accordiing to the Qur' an, "it is not befitting to ( the majesty of ) Allah that He should beget a son" ( Sura 19:25 ), Allah " begetteth not, nor is begotten" ( Sura 112:3 ). The bible however does not use the term "begotten" with respect to the Father and the Son in the sense of sexual reproduction but rather in the sense of special relationship. Thus, when the apostle John speaks of Jesus as " the only begotten of the Father" ( John 1:14 NKJV, emphasis added), he is underscoring the unique deity of Christ. Likewise, when the Apostle Paul refers to Jesus as "firstborn over all creation" (Colossians 1:15 ) he is emphasizing Christ's of all things ( Colossians 1:16-19 ). Christians are sons of God through adoption; Jesus is God the son from all eternity. Furthermore, Muslims dogmatically denounce the Christian declaration of Christ's unique deity as the unforgivable sin of shirk. as the Qur' an puts it, "God forgiveth no the sin of joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this" ( Sura 4:116). While Muslims readily affirm the sinlessness of Christ, they adamantly dney His sacrifice upon the cross and subsequent resurrection. in doing so, they deny the singular historic fact which demonstrates that Jesus does not stand in a long line of peers from Abraham to Muhammad, but is God in human flesh. The Qur'anic phrase," Allah raised him up" (Sura 4:158 ) is taken to mean that Jesus was supernaturally raptured rather than resurrected from the dead. in Islamic lore, God made someone look like Jesus, and this look-a-like was crucified in his place. In recent years, the myth that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus has been popularized in Muslim circles by a late medieval invention titled The Gospel of Barnabas. Against the weight of history and evidence the Qur' an exudes, "they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them"( Sura 4:157).
Finally, in addition to rejecting the divinity of Jesus, Islam also renounces the divine identity of the Holy Spirit. Far from being the third person of the Triune God who inspired the text of the Bible, Islam teaches that the HOly Spirit is the archangel Gabriel who dictated the Qur'an to Muhammad over a period of twenty-three years. Ironically, while the HOly Spirit who dictated the Qur'an is said to be the archangel Gabriel, Islam identifies the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14 as Muhammad. The Bible, however, roundly rejects such corruptions and misrepresentation. Biblically the Holy Spirit is neither an angel nor a mere mortal; rather he is the very God who redeems us from our sins and will one day resurrect us to life eternal ( Acts 5:3-4; Romans 8:11).

1 John 2:23
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."


Thank you agian for listening to me... Merry Christmas and happy New Years..

Greetings,

Firstly, there is only one God. Whether or not you want to divide him into three different pieces and try to logically prove that everyone else has it wrong is sef-delusion. The God of the Worlds is indivisible and sublime. Above all that He created. The Archangel Gabriel indeed is the Holy Spirit, the one entrusted with delivering the message to the Prophets.

If you are promoting the fact that The Holy Spirit is, just that a spirit. Your Bible speaks of it prior to Jesus' (as) birth.

As for the word begotten, it is used in the KJV and the NKJV; however, in the RSV it is "only son". Why the change? Christians have been differentiating Jesus (as) by menetioning he was the begotten son. Why lose the word? Why because it is not in the original manuscripts.

Regarding the Qur'an, and the Gospel of Barnabas, Muslims follow the Qur'an not the Gospel of Barnabas. The Qur'an only says it was made apparent to them. That is the stance and anything added to it is not from Allaah ta ala. It is not of any importance who was crucified, the point is it wasn't Jesus (as). Which is the foundation of Christendom. Much of the World believes he was, but it was a fallacy.

The Prophets of God are sinless. They do not fornicate, murder, and refrain from any other diabolical acts. They are models for humanity. Allaah ta ala chose them because of their sincere and upright character.

Lastly, Muslims do not follow Paul, we follow Muhammad, Jesus and all the prophets who preceded them. I am not interested in what Paul had to say about Him. I am seeking guidance from the messenger whom God sent.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace to you Isa Abdullah;

Regardless of who we say we follow, whether it be Hindu, Jew, Islam, Christianity or any other faith, all our prayers are heard by the same God.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding

Eric

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

I wass under the impression there was only one God, so what is this talk of Christians not believing in that God?

 

[Umar001]

La Ilaha Ill Allah, now lets focus on the Ilaha.

Anything can be taken as G-d, so although there is only one true G-d there are things that are taken AS G-d

Such as desire as G-d tells us:

SHAKIR: Have you seen him who takes his low desires for his god? Will you then be a protector over him?

25:43.

 

[Isa Abdullah]

Greetings and peace to you Isa Abdullah;

Regardless of who we say we follow, whether it be Hindu, Jew, Islam, Christianity or any other faith, all our prayers are heard by the same God.

In the spirit of seeking a greater interfaith understanding

Eric

Peace Eric,

Nice post. It is Christians like you that the Qur'an speaks about.

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

 

[primitivefuture]

Well, it depends on whether you have "extra gods." Islam and Judaism are purely monotheistic. Some Buddhist sects dont even have a god. Hindus are polytheists, while Christians worship Christ as well.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace primitivefuture:

Well, it depends on whether you have "extra gods." Islam and Judaism are purely monotheistic. Some Buddhist sects dont even have a god. Hindus are polytheists, while Christians worship Christ as well.

I think it is extremely difficult to focus on the meaning of one God, and in a way you have highlighted the problem from man’s perception.

This analogy sounds a bit flippant but I can’t think of any other way of trying to explain my perception of one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

When we pray do our prayers end up in some kind of giant prayer sorting office in the sky? The Hindu angels sort out the Hindu prayers, the Jewish angels sort out the Jewish prayers, and other angels compartmentalise the prayers of all other faiths?

Dose the boss angel look through and say all these prayers are addressed to the wrong guy, we will send them to the recycle bin.

Or do all prayers end up in one place, they reach God who knows the thoughts and intentions of all people of all faiths, because all our prayers are directed to the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth

Eric

 

[Umar001]

Greetings and peace primitivefuture:


I think it is extremely difficult to focus on the meaning of one God, and in a way you have highlighted the problem from man’s perception.

This analogy sounds a bit flippant but I can’t think of any other way of trying to explain my perception of one God the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

When we pray do our prayers end up in some kind of giant prayer sorting office in the sky? The Hindu angels sort out the Hindu prayers, the Jewish angels sort out the Jewish prayers, and other angels compartmentalise the prayers of all other faiths?

Dose the boss angel look through and say all these prayers are addressed to the wrong guy, we will send them to the recycle bin.

Or do all prayers end up in one place, they reach God who knows the thoughts and intentions of all people of all faiths, because all our prayers are directed to the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth

Eric

Man, I am glad I have to honour of adressing ya Eric, I remember a while back when I used to pop in here and you were one of the people I remembered, I actually have to admit that I do occasionaly use your like 'In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth' or something similar :giggling:

Anyhow sir, I hope you dont mind me coming in here.

But I noticed and I think most people will agree about what you said about Prayer, or Supplication Du'a to muslims. It does go To the creator yes.

But when we talk of worship thats slightly different, worship can be eccesive love to a cretion hence someone is being worshipped instead of G-d.

I hope I am making sense.
And I hope I have not misunderstood yall

peaceeee 'In the spirit of searching for a greatest truth'

:thankyou:

 

[Sabi]

hence someone is being worshipped instead of G-d.

Why do you write God in the same way as an Hassidic Jew?:? I did not know that Muslims Hallow the Name more than Sabi`een do.

The reason this thread exists I think is because to Christians, Theos is clearly begetter and begotten, while in Tawheed, TonTheon is neither begetter nor begotten.

However, The Ruhulah is Begetter and Begotten, but it is not Allah. So clearly Christians pray to Ruhullah (Theos) and do not know Allah (TonTheon).

Allah is the name of al-Dhat al-Qudsiyya (Ruhullah), so we can say that in the beginning there was al-Dhat al-Qudsiyya and its name (Allah). In Hebrew they say that in the beginning was HaQodesh and its name (HaShem). In Christianity they say that in the beginning there was Theos and its name (TonTheon).

So we all believe in the same things, but different emphasis is placed upon name vs essence in the different branches of Noah's religion.

But we must not confound the two. The Name does not have a son, while The Essence is certainly in each of us Inshallah.



(at the very least, this is the sabi perspective)

 

[glo]

salam alaikum
well would it surprise you to know that Allah the word actually means "The God" in Arabic )denoting uniqueness and oneness) So i would not be surprised at all if people were calling God as Allah before Mohameed(sa)


So dont think little of God - God is greatest!

The name of Allah was around before the Arab tribes abandoned polytheism and became monotheistic. I am surprised that it means 'one God', when at that time he was not considered to be the 'one (and only) God'.
As I understand it, prior to the arrival of Islam the Arab tribes had many gods - the main one of which was called al-Lah.
Those Arabs who converted to Christianity held onto that name.


peace.

 

[Sabi]

But Glo, Altars to "The Unknown God" were around in Pagan Greece even though they worshipped many other Gods, so if St. Paul identified that god as the one true God, then can't Allah be The Name in Arabic? GOD of gods.

 

[glo]

But Glo, Altars to "The Unknown God" were around in Pagan Greece even though they worshipped many other Gods, so if St. Paul identified that god as the one true God

I'm not sure what you mean.
St. Paul identified 'the unknown' Greek pagan god as the 'one true God'?
Can I ask you why you think that?

then can't Allah be The Name in Arabic? GOD of gods.[/

I'm not denying that Allah is Arabic for 'The God'.
But when I read the post 'The God' seemed to read as 'the (one and only) God' ... which cannot be the case, if as that time al-Lah was not the one and only god, but one of many.

Whoever 'the unknown god', you are referring to, is, I read that title just as 'an unknown god', rather than 'the one and only' ...

Goodness, I am starting to confuse myself!
Feel free to ignore my ramblings ... ;D

Peace.