100s killed in Darfur in August

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It seems though that many Muslims especially Arabs think twice about being to harsh on there brothers who are commiting such acts.

I'm enraged as a Black whose parents are from the Sudan.
 
At this rate Africa will be a continent without a people,
they're dying of poverty, numerous conflicts, widespread diseases, you name it. The fat cats in power get richer and richer whereas 315 million people survive on less than 1 dollar a day. No one cares about Africa, it seems the whole world is baying for the blood of Africans, why the issue of Darfur has gone on for this long is sickening, even the so called Muslim states refuse to intervene. Muslims have gone back to the state of Jaahiliya, we are a sad lot.
 
For many hundreds of years various cultures have tried unsuccessfully to intervene in the affairs of Africa. We as outsiders tend to place our values, be they western, mid-eastern or oriental upon the people of Africa. Africa has African values and the people have succeeded in resisting all attempts at outside influences. First there was the Egyptian influence. Yet, that never spread beyond the northern coastal regions. The Arab world tried with the same results. Although the Arabs and Phoenicians did and have managed to influence the Sahara regions. However, the Sahara desert has proven to be an effective barrier to keep it from spreading southward.

European influence did not come about until the 1800s. The most notable being the Union of South Africa. But, now that is once again being restored to the people of Africa.

We can cry over what we see as injustices and hardships in Africa. But, none of us can make any changes without the open request of the African people. In natural resources Africa remains the continent with the greatest number of resources. Many nations would like to tap into those resources, I believe the African people see what we call aid as being an invasion and ploy to steal those resources.

No matter what cultural we belong to, we need to keep in mind that the African cultures existed long before our culture. We can not help Africa by trying to place our values upon the African people. If our values can benefit the African people, they can only utilize them by freely requesting them.

Africans have shown that they will resist any outside influence, be the intent of the influence to spread assisstance or to attempt dominance. Africans want to govern Africans and have historicaly shown they do not want outsiders involved in African affairs.

The African nations are very much aware that if they desire help they have the choice of many nations to accept help from. I believe most Africans would view any influence from any non-African Nation to be similar to the way mid-easterners view the Western world.

My point being I do not see how any non-African nation can be of any benefit to Africans.

Are we totaly unable to help, no we can help. However, keep in mind our help needs to be more on personal non-political levels and consist mostly of food and medical care. As individuals the best we can do is financialy support volunteer groups that are involved in providing for direct need, with no political agenda. Once the land is stable then education becomes possible.
 
ManchesterFolk said:
It seems though that many Muslims especially Arabs think twice about being to harsh on there brothers who are commiting such acts.

I'm enraged as a Black whose parents are from the Sudan.
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there has been not one muslim who i have spoken to who at all thinks dafur is right quite the opposite they see it as an insult to islam..
i have links to africa aswell as my parents went there from india but that is not why i find dafur an insult to islam or why i feel for my brothers there and the innocent are being harmed for politcal and evil reasons i feel this way beacuse i am human and i care for them..let us not judge every muslim on the act of a few...
 
All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.
 
ManchesterFolk said:
All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.
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I can understand and sympathise with your feelings. But, the situation in Darfur is more complex than that. To a large extent it is non-Black killing Black. But it is also Black killing Black and Non-Black killing non_Black and Black killing non-Black.

Sadly it is people that are Africans killing Africans and Muslims killing Muslim. It really is a civil war of Brother killing Brother. All factions are African and Muslim.

If anyone is to blame we would need to look at the government that is trying to control the Sudan and the means they have resorted to accomplish that goal.
 
ManchesterFolk said:
All I know is that my parents were from the Sudan before they came to the UK, and the people who share my ethnic backround are being killed by people who claim to do it in the name of Arabs and Islam.
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Obviously you need to KNOW a bit more than that before pointing fingers bro..you seem to keep mentioning arabs and islam...

if you lack so many facts why are you easy to hate islam??

those who kill indeed may be so called muslims and those who die may well be muslims so what does this have to do with islam expect that both parties follow it!?

if this was islamic based then why harm those who follow it!?

perhaps you should look in to the matter further before making rash judgments on the whole islamic nation...
 
ManchesterFolk said:
Every black in Darfur does not follow Islam. Many do, but all do not.
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ok and?

whats that got to do with anything? if anything that further proves this is not an islamic thing as both non muslims and muslims are suffering together!?

you could say its a black thing!?

if those who are attacking are doing it based on the color of skin and not religon as it does seem to be the case as u just stated then why mention islam!?
 
if those who are attacking are doing it based on the color of skin and not religon as it does seem to be the case as u just stated then why mention islam!?
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I mention Islam because the way they get recruits the so called "Arab militias" are by calling them and doing it the name of Islam. I know that killing blacks is not islamic, but where are the good folk in Sudan who are willing to stand up and say, "NO! Killing blacks is not Islamic!"
 
Rou said:
Im sorry im confused as i stated this is being tallked about by muslims awell as iraq and afgan and palastine and as in dafur indeed muslims still die in iraq and afgan and palastine!?

so what your trying to state makes no sense what your saying is we are all funding iraq and afgan etc but not dafur!? and the way you have worked this out is by saying that people in dafur are still dying!??

uhmmm well they are still dying in iraq and afgan and palastine aswell!?? so that logic makes no sense!?

second you state muslims are saying letthere be more casulties!?? where did you get that from!?? and how does that makes sense where will muslims get aasking for that!? that again is failed logic...

thirdly you state your hindu thats fine bro no issue there i have many hindu brothers but you say you want to know whats going on in the ummah cos you know many muslims who dont care about the dafur!??

brother i know mosques full who do and!??

as stated in all religons there will be those who are evil doers and the true ummah will weed them out inshallah..

muslims will never find any good in the suffering of any innocents logic behind saying we want more casulties as muslims in dafur makes no sense as you stated there muslim to...

i suggest looking deeper into islamic ways if you wish to comment on the ummah and what muslims want cos dafur is an insult to islam and humanity...
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Well yes brother, I firmly feel that there is hypocricy in muslim world when it comes to death of muslims in Darfur vs other parts of the world. U may argue it further and refute my point, but that will do little to convince me. Coz I have many muslims around me where I m living, perhaps maybe more than Urself. And I know that a lion share of them doesnt even know whats going on in Darfur, coz their Imam hasnt ever delievered emotional Friday sermons trying to inflame their sentiments while telling them how their bretherns are being killed in that part of the world. Its delibrate I know very well.

Bottomline is that muslims (Majority of, not all) care less for their bretherns dying in Darfur as compared in other regions. Its a bitter pill U have to swallow brother.
 
Rou said:
hmm i sense sarcasem? theres no need for this brother...

second i suggest perhaps you get to know real muslims...

and there presence there...



Adeel Jafferi, Islamic Relief Press Officer, flew out to join IR staff in Darfur, western Sudan last week, and is writing a diary for Islamic-Relief.com about his experiences.

Saturday 7th August: I arrived in the Al Riyadh camp in El-Geneina, West Darfur's main town, which Islamic Relief have been managing since the crisis began. My first view was from the rise of a hill and the scene was overwhelming. The staff in Khartoum had given me an idea of what to expect, but nothing could have prepared me for what I saw. Stretched out for miles were tiny makeshift shelters.

there are those who would promote hate within islam brother there are those who would burn the fires of hate between brother and brother and spread lies to support such hate..all i can say is they will find there due brother if not in this life in the next...

:w:
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Well sorry brother, I m sorry for my sarcastic remarks. I agree and admit that I get carried away while speaking on such topics. Gonna edit my post.

Thanks for sharing pic of the brother who is doing great service to the darfur victims. May ALLAH bless him. But we need many many more like him to heal the wounds of those ppls.

I still have complains about less muslim presence in Darfur and less muslim awareness regarding whats happening there.

Thanks
 
ManchesterFolk said:
I mention Islam because the way they get recruits the so called "Arab militias" are by calling them and doing it the name of Islam. I know that killing blacks is not islamic, but where are the good folk in Sudan who are willing to stand up and say, "NO! Killing blacks is not Islamic!"
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wait listen...

how can they recruit based on islam to kill muslims!? that to any muslim is instant hell anyway..

and you just stated to kill blacks..exactly this aint about religon or islam then its about race...

and as for the good folks i showed you examples of them and there are many many more...there are evil doers in all races just as there are those of good nature..

and second there are blacks killing blacks so how does that fit in!???
 
justahumane said:
Well yes brother, I firmly feel that there is hypocricy in muslim world when it comes to death of muslims in Darfur vs other parts of the world. U may argue it further and refute my point, but that will do little to convince me. Coz I have many muslims around me where I m living, perhaps maybe more than Urself. And I know that a lion share of them doesnt even know whats going on in Darfur, coz their Imam hasnt ever delievered emotional Friday sermons trying to inflame their sentiments while telling them how their bretherns are being killed in that part of the world. Its delibrate I know very well.

Bottomline is that muslims (Majority of, not all) care less for their bretherns dying in Darfur as compared in other regions. Its a bitter pill U have to swallow brother.
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lol so all the charity that gets collected by my muslim brothers here is not enough to the lack of charity that is given by muslims you know and that is how you judge the muslim race...

This is not the way brother...

you say you will not be convinced im not trying to convince you bro im but telling you what i know as a muslim from my experience...so those muslims dont care in your area that is not a way to judge a race or religon there will always be evil doers and together we must weed them out...
 
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justahumane said:
Well sorry brother, I m sorry for my sarcastic remarks. I agree and admit that I get carried away while speaking on such topics. Gonna edit my post.

Thanks for sharing pic of the brother who is doing great service to the darfur victims. May ALLAH bless him. But we need many many more like him to heal the wounds of those ppls.

I still have complains about less muslim presence in Darfur and less muslim awareness regarding whats happening there.

Thanks
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We all hope more people (not only muslims) help and think for the people in dafur but thats what we must do lead by example muslims do care bro just as many non muslims do i suggest not putting all muslims or non muslims in one basket...
 
The Eastern Front was created last year by the region's largest ethnic group, the Beja, and the Rashidiyya Arabs, and has similar aims to its better-known counterparts in Darfur: greater autonomy and control of resources. Its members have waged a low-level insurgency, and Sudan says the push to defuse the crisis is part of efforts to pacify the whole country by building on peace pacts reached recently with other rebels.

Rashidiyya arab
 
Rou said:
lol so all the charity that gets collected by my muslim brothers here is not enough to the lack of charity that is given by muslims you know and that is how you judge the muslim race...

This is not the way brother...

you say you will not be convinced im not trying to convince you bro im but telling you what i know as a muslim from my experience...so those muslims dont care in your area that is not a way to judge a race or religon there will always be evil doers and together we must weed them out...
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Well brother, its simple maths if u wish to understand.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.


Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.

Thanks.
 
justahumane said:
Well brother, its simple maths if u wish to understand.

1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.


Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.

Thanks.
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1. Number of casualities and sufferings in Darfur is undoubtedly greater than number of casualities and sufferings elsewhere.

I believe if you check out the past 20 years of Iran and Iraq you will find much more casualties. Although the current situation has produced many, going back over the past 20 years you will find there has been continuous internal strive, the death toll has been much larger there.

No, the death toll in Darfur should not be overlooked, but it is not greater than what it has been in other places.

2. Number of post in this forum voicing concern about Darfur is many times less than number of posts concering killings and sufferings of muslims elsewhere.

This thread has recieved sufficient views to keep it on the first page longer then any other recent thread. The number of posts and views are in the higher numbers of the majority of threads, in the "World Affairs" section.

Does this ring the bell?

If yes, than its never too late to wake up brother.

And this is certainly not the critaria, but just a humble attempt to show U the reality of muslim world. U wont see a big difference elsewhere regarding this issue. I bet.



There are probably more international and Muslim organizations involved in the welfare of Darfur than any other current conflict. The problem is not the lack of concern, but the inability for anyone to find a successfull solution. No, Muslims around the world have not just simply thrown their hands up in the air and given up. It is just that external influence is not very effective for ending internal conflict.


Just a few of the groups (Muslim and Non-Muslim, the Non-Muslim ones also have a significant number of Muslims involved) that have been engaged in bringing peace to Darfur and the problems they have run into:


Sudan Aid
Darfur, Sudan - 10,000 Facing Death 2 Million Homeless. Donate.
www.WorldVision.org


Stop Genocide in Darfur
Take Action Today and Demand UN Peacekeepers in Darfur
www.savedarfur.org



Sudanese governrment and rebel groups agree to end war
Adam Sherif, a Darfur refugee living at Gaga camp in east. ... agencies hope the
agreement will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/05/MNGTMILKIS67DTL

NEWS ANALYSIS / Rebel groups' snub threatens new pact for peace in ...
The Darfur peace deal the Sudanese government and a major rebel group signed on
Friday ... will pave the way for relief groups to bring aid to the region, ...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/05/06/MNGUUIMR571.DTL


Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | It was meant to bring peace ...
It was meant to bring peace. Instead, British-brokered deal has rekindled war In
Darfur's refugee camps, survivors tell of attacks by rebel groups that used ...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0,,1884432,00.html


CAFOD : News and events : News : Darfur 2004-09-16
Bringing aid to Darfur: Thanks to the extraordinary generosity of ... are being
equipped and stocked with food for under-fives and other vulnerable groups. ...
http://www.cafod.org.uk/news_and_events/news/darfur_2004_09_16

Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur Petition
Increased violence between rival rebel groups in Sudan has put millions of Darfur
... Note: This Bring Humanitarian Aid to War-Torn Darfur petition was ...
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/891099140


Groups raise tribal leaders' suspicions - Boston.com
International aid groups are increasingly relying on local NGOs to bring long-term
relief to Darfur, a region of western Sudan where more than 2,5 million ...
http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2006/10/05/groups_raise_tribal_leaders_suspicions/

Oxfam America: Frequently Asked Questions
The Darfur Peace Agreement, signed in May, 2006 between the government and one
of the now numerous rebel groups, has yet to bring security to Darfur. ...
http://www.oxfamamerica.org/whatwedo/emergencies/sudan/faqs

Aid workers in Darfur persevere against violence and suspicion ...
International aid groups have withdrawn from large sections of Darfur, ...
El Sallam's refugee leaders on Wednesday before bringing in the Sudanese workers. ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/04/africa/AF_GEN_Sudan_Darfur_Aid.php

allAfrica.com: Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to ...
Sudan: Unicef Takes Out Loans to Bring Aid to Darfur: Less Than 'One Piece of
... People are living in very close quarters in groups anywhere from just a ...
http://allafrica.com/stories/200406240867.html

United Nations - OCHA IRIN | Web Special | Sudan: A future without ...
We have a list of atrocities committed by the rebel groups - killing, raping,
looting, destroying development projects. In South Darfur, they have been ...
http://www.irinnews.org/webspecials/SudanDarfur/Int-GHAC.asp


There are many, many more. This has been an issue that the Muslim Ummah and the rest of the world has been trying to end for the past 20 years. It is not that Darfur is overlooked and ignored, it is the simple fact that nothing has worked yet.





Probably the fastest way to end the conflict would be for an outside force to invade and conquer both sides and set up a dictatorship. However, I doubt if many would want that as a solution.
 
Avicenna said:
Please stay on topic. This is about Dawkin's book, not Darfur.
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HUH??? Please read the thread title and the posts. The Dawkins thread is 3 threads to the left. You have wandered into the Darfur thread.
 

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