MysticRiver
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yes, in Ghazza street.
15 years old girl raped, killed and thrown from the 16th floor of a hotel in Mekkah!
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So i guess i was wrong to think such crimes didnt occur in mekkah? hmm....
These guys are muslim i assume?
MysticRiver
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well, I wish they were not. Truly, I don't know if they're or aren't muslims.
Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuhu,
This is what I was fearing that yet again the people who cannot control their emotional spew for the sake of the deen we know as Islaam simply cannot understand my point. Please I advise you all to fear Allaah as he aught to be feared and go back to my post, read it 10 times so that you may understand my point.
Every time a westerner in particular hears of rape it is as though they are unable to grasp the principles sharee'ah came with. As I mentioned time and time again I wish that the due punishment be afflicted upon the rapist which is that they should be killed. The murderer should be killed and I have always advocated this and will continue to advocate this till my dying days.
All I did and may Allaah correct you all by way of the Qur'an and Sunnah, is that everyone has a responsibility. All people have a duty to fulfill and a role in Islaam, they all have the responsibility to live their lives by way of what Allaah has decreed for them. In this manner we look at all aspects of any incident in order to ascertain the lessons we need to learn from it.
Likewise in this situation, although sensitive, highlights a reminder to us all about the principles Islaam has been revealed with. We are not 10% Muslim, in that we only follow parts of Islaam and leave parts, this is the trait of the Munaafiq and the Faasiq, not of a Muslim or a Mu'min. This incident has highlighted the following which is what I advised:
1. A woman must always be accompanied by a mahram: that is a brother, uncle, nephew or any man whom it is haram to marry because of their closeness to us in the family. This is to maintain the protection of the woman at all times especially overseas or in places where she may be vulnerable. This incident is living proof that Allaah is the Most Wise in giving us this ruling as the girl would not have been subject to this if accompanied by a mahram, Allaah willing it would have been a greater preventative measure for her.
2. A woman must also disengage from any talk or personal rapport with any non-Mahram [a person she is allowed to marry if she does a marriage contract with him]: This is to prevent oppression and the likelihood of fornication. So the eye must be protecting its gaze, the ear its hearing and all of the limbs must protect themselves from unnecessary and personal contact with non-Mahram members of society. This also applies equally to the man.
I swear by Allaah, I didnt say it was the woman's fault that she had been raped. It is the mans fault for the sins he committed, ie the rape and the murder, may Allaah give him what he deserves ameen. So please sweet106 let your "blood boil" for other reasons than me mentioning what the sharee'ah says about women who dont travel with a mahram and who freemix, if you have a problem with what I have said then I am sorry to say you have a problem with sharee'ah as this is what is confirmed in the Qur'an and sunnah. If you are so offended by what I have said regarding this then please take up your complaints with Allaah and his messenger [saws] on the Day of Judgement.
My point has always been that people always fail in their responsibilities and fail to realise that sharee'ah has come to protect them from all forms of harm. If a person strives to implement the Islamic code of conduct in their lives then the chances of them being subjected to such treatment would be minimised as much as possible as the sharee'ah is a means of protection, safety, harmony in society and living in ease.
An example of this incident is: Abdullaah beats up Mu'aadh for stealing. Abdullaah beats Mu'aadh to death. Abdullaah is sinning for the murder he has caused but does this mean that Mu'aadh is exempt from stealing? This is the point I am making. Each person is liable for his own sin and his own lackings and we should never say that a person is exempt from something if it is clear they did something haraam too. This haraam must be pointed out and we must continue to FORBID ALL MATTERS OF SIN.
I request that the so called Muslims on this forum just pause and reflect before they speak in haste, either due to their lack of control of emotion, or due to lack of knowledge about a particular issue. May Allaah allow us to be fair and balanced, have good thoughts and assumption of our fellow Muslims and not jump to conclusions regarding their statements if we may not understand them. May Allaah allow us all to save our women from injustice of the perversions from the men of this world and may Allaah allow them to protect themselves as much as possible by his sharee'ah so as to be as safe as possible from their evil. Ameen.
This is what I was fearing that yet again the people who cannot control their emotional spew for the sake of the deen we know as Islaam simply cannot understand my point. Please I advise you all to fear Allaah as he aught to be feared and go back to my post, read it 10 times so that you may understand my point.
Every time a westerner in particular hears of rape it is as though they are unable to grasp the principles sharee'ah came with. As I mentioned time and time again I wish that the due punishment be afflicted upon the rapist which is that they should be killed. The murderer should be killed and I have always advocated this and will continue to advocate this till my dying days.
All I did and may Allaah correct you all by way of the Qur'an and Sunnah, is that everyone has a responsibility. All people have a duty to fulfill and a role in Islaam, they all have the responsibility to live their lives by way of what Allaah has decreed for them. In this manner we look at all aspects of any incident in order to ascertain the lessons we need to learn from it.
Likewise in this situation, although sensitive, highlights a reminder to us all about the principles Islaam has been revealed with. We are not 10% Muslim, in that we only follow parts of Islaam and leave parts, this is the trait of the Munaafiq and the Faasiq, not of a Muslim or a Mu'min. This incident has highlighted the following which is what I advised:
1. A woman must always be accompanied by a mahram: that is a brother, uncle, nephew or any man whom it is haram to marry because of their closeness to us in the family. This is to maintain the protection of the woman at all times especially overseas or in places where she may be vulnerable. This incident is living proof that Allaah is the Most Wise in giving us this ruling as the girl would not have been subject to this if accompanied by a mahram, Allaah willing it would have been a greater preventative measure for her.
2. A woman must also disengage from any talk or personal rapport with any non-Mahram [a person she is allowed to marry if she does a marriage contract with him]: This is to prevent oppression and the likelihood of fornication. So the eye must be protecting its gaze, the ear its hearing and all of the limbs must protect themselves from unnecessary and personal contact with non-Mahram members of society. This also applies equally to the man.
I swear by Allaah, I didnt say it was the woman's fault that she had been raped. It is the mans fault for the sins he committed, ie the rape and the murder, may Allaah give him what he deserves ameen. So please sweet106 let your "blood boil" for other reasons than me mentioning what the sharee'ah says about women who dont travel with a mahram and who freemix, if you have a problem with what I have said then I am sorry to say you have a problem with sharee'ah as this is what is confirmed in the Qur'an and sunnah. If you are so offended by what I have said regarding this then please take up your complaints with Allaah and his messenger [saws] on the Day of Judgement.
My point has always been that people always fail in their responsibilities and fail to realise that sharee'ah has come to protect them from all forms of harm. If a person strives to implement the Islamic code of conduct in their lives then the chances of them being subjected to such treatment would be minimised as much as possible as the sharee'ah is a means of protection, safety, harmony in society and living in ease.
An example of this incident is: Abdullaah beats up Mu'aadh for stealing. Abdullaah beats Mu'aadh to death. Abdullaah is sinning for the murder he has caused but does this mean that Mu'aadh is exempt from stealing? This is the point I am making. Each person is liable for his own sin and his own lackings and we should never say that a person is exempt from something if it is clear they did something haraam too. This haraam must be pointed out and we must continue to FORBID ALL MATTERS OF SIN.
I request that the so called Muslims on this forum just pause and reflect before they speak in haste, either due to their lack of control of emotion, or due to lack of knowledge about a particular issue. May Allaah allow us to be fair and balanced, have good thoughts and assumption of our fellow Muslims and not jump to conclusions regarding their statements if we may not understand them. May Allaah allow us all to save our women from injustice of the perversions from the men of this world and may Allaah allow them to protect themselves as much as possible by his sharee'ah so as to be as safe as possible from their evil. Ameen.
P.S: All this is based on going on the apparent statements of the Saudi Gazette or whoever else has reported the incident. I dont know the facts of the case or what was done this is only known to Allaah best. But my responses are based on the hypothetical incident as it has been informed to us. Allaah knows best whether it was migrant workers and not the Royal Family itself! This is why I said in my original post that this is what is being CLAIMED and is APPARENT not certain knowledge.
SubhanAllah
SubhanAllah
Salahudeen
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I agree with akhi bilal and I understand his point, the shari'a is there to protect us and if we follow the rulings then the chances of harm coming to us is much less, for example my mother likes to go out at night to the shop, she all ways moans that I don't need to come with her, how she's a big girl and doesn't need protecting, one night a guy hassled her.
When she came back I told her if you had allowed me to go with you as the shari'a states then you would not have been hasssled probably.
now it's not her fault the guy hassled her but it could've been prevented if she followed the rulings of shari'a. This is all bilal is saying I believe.
When she came back I told her if you had allowed me to go with you as the shari'a states then you would not have been hasssled probably.
now it's not her fault the guy hassled her but it could've been prevented if she followed the rulings of shari'a. This is all bilal is saying I believe.
manaal
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I am always hesitant posting news like this on Islamic forum (I hardly do) because there are always people like Billal- A (people like that make my blood boil).
Amen to duas.
I personally would have posted this in the Muslim-only section.
Salahudeen
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Sister Sweet, it would be beneficial if you applied the meaning of your name in the way you dialogued with people and talked in a nice way to your brothers. Not as if he's the scum of the Earth who's just comitted the most heinous of crimes. Good manners when discussing with people goes a long way as opposed to emotional outbursts.
I really don't understand what your issue is with Bilal's post. If you read his last post he said it's not the girl's fault. What he was saying is that such incidents are less likely to happen if the shari'a is followed. Now that doesn't mean he was saying the girl wasn't following the shari'a he said "If it's true she had a zina relationship" the keyword being "if" which means he didn't accept the testimoney of the murderer as true hence he said "If it's true"
Your point is? when did bilal make 70 excuses for the murderer? Read what he said below if you're confused.
You're right none of us were there and none of us know the facts of the case, she may have been in a zina relationship with the individual she may not have been allah hu alam we don't really know cos we wern't there were we. We can not determine this unless we know the facts of the case so it's pointless discussing whether she was in zina relationship because we just don't know. How do you know there wasn't a zina relationship? Do you have access to witness reports or CCTV camera's?
What if there's witnesses claiming to have seen the couple together on prior occassions? what if there's cctv footage of the two of them walking around together? Do you have access to such things to see if the rapists claim is true or not? we can't merely say it's not true because of what he done, nor can we say it is true. We don't have the means to reach a conclusion about whether or not his statement about the zina relationship was true or not.
Regardless even if she was in a zina relationship this in no way justifies what was done to her, no body is justifying what happened to this girl or blaming her, this is your misconeption. I understood Bilal to mean that, the following of the shari'a reduces the chances of such an incident occurring. And if there was any negligence on the girls side this in no way justifies what happened to her however had she not been negligent the incident could have been prevented.
The key word being "and if" I'm not condemming her and saying it was all her fault because she should not have been in a zina relationship we're simply saying IF she was in a zina relationship she coulld've prevented this from occurring to herself by not getting involved in such a relationship. That's "if" she was,
^that doesn't immply what happened to her is justified it simply means it could have been prevented IF infact she was in a zina relationship, but the fact of the matter is neither of us can prove she wasn't and neither of us can prove she was because we don't have access to resources such as witness reports, cctv footage, all we know is she was thrown off a building. How this occurred we don't know. We can only say if she was in such a relationship then she could have prevented this harm from coming to her. But this in NO WAY JUSTIFIES what happened to her.
And we don't know of anything to say she was in a zina relationship, that's why we say "IF" meaning she is free from the charge, no 1 is saying she's guilty of a zina relationship however IF she was in such a relationship this could have been prevented by following the shari'a..
And no she wasn't with her stepfather you have seemd to misread again, she came with a guardian, we do not know if he accompanied her at all times or whether she was wondering around the city alone.
That meaning? people who advocate the following of the shari'a? or are you suggessting that Bilal is saying it's the victims fault? in which case see below.
I really don't see your issue, I think you have a stereo typed image in your head of Bilal being a person who all ways blames the woman and considers the man to never be at fault. If this is indeed true then what is your reason for thinking such a thing? Because I don't recall seeing in any of his posts blame being placed upon the girl. Rather all I see is you misunderstanding his statements and jumping the gun.
Let me give you an example,
"I heard sister sweet that you're into cocaine, if this is true then you're doing a bad thing here and it will lead to your destruction".
^Is this statement bad? does it mean you're guilty of what I said? of course not because I said "if it's true" and then I pointed out the consequences of doing such a thing.
I really don't understand what your issue is with Bilal's post. If you read his last post he said it's not the girl's fault. What he was saying is that such incidents are less likely to happen if the shari'a is followed. Now that doesn't mean he was saying the girl wasn't following the shari'a he said "If it's true she had a zina relationship" the keyword being "if" which means he didn't accept the testimoney of the murderer as true hence he said "If it's true"
Your point is? when did bilal make 70 excuses for the murderer? Read what he said below if you're confused.
You're right none of us were there and none of us know the facts of the case, she may have been in a zina relationship with the individual she may not have been allah hu alam we don't really know cos we wern't there were we. We can not determine this unless we know the facts of the case so it's pointless discussing whether she was in zina relationship because we just don't know. How do you know there wasn't a zina relationship? Do you have access to witness reports or CCTV camera's?
What if there's witnesses claiming to have seen the couple together on prior occassions? what if there's cctv footage of the two of them walking around together? Do you have access to such things to see if the rapists claim is true or not? we can't merely say it's not true because of what he done, nor can we say it is true. We don't have the means to reach a conclusion about whether or not his statement about the zina relationship was true or not.
Regardless even if she was in a zina relationship this in no way justifies what was done to her, no body is justifying what happened to this girl or blaming her, this is your misconeption. I understood Bilal to mean that, the following of the shari'a reduces the chances of such an incident occurring. And if there was any negligence on the girls side this in no way justifies what happened to her however had she not been negligent the incident could have been prevented.
The key word being "and if" I'm not condemming her and saying it was all her fault because she should not have been in a zina relationship we're simply saying IF she was in a zina relationship she coulld've prevented this from occurring to herself by not getting involved in such a relationship. That's "if" she was,
^that doesn't immply what happened to her is justified it simply means it could have been prevented IF infact she was in a zina relationship, but the fact of the matter is neither of us can prove she wasn't and neither of us can prove she was because we don't have access to resources such as witness reports, cctv footage, all we know is she was thrown off a building. How this occurred we don't know. We can only say if she was in such a relationship then she could have prevented this harm from coming to her. But this in NO WAY JUSTIFIES what happened to her.
And we don't know of anything to say she was in a zina relationship, that's why we say "IF" meaning she is free from the charge, no 1 is saying she's guilty of a zina relationship however IF she was in such a relationship this could have been prevented by following the shari'a..
And no she wasn't with her stepfather you have seemd to misread again, she came with a guardian, we do not know if he accompanied her at all times or whether she was wondering around the city alone.
That meaning? people who advocate the following of the shari'a? or are you suggessting that Bilal is saying it's the victims fault? in which case see below.
I really don't see your issue, I think you have a stereo typed image in your head of Bilal being a person who all ways blames the woman and considers the man to never be at fault. If this is indeed true then what is your reason for thinking such a thing? Because I don't recall seeing in any of his posts blame being placed upon the girl. Rather all I see is you misunderstanding his statements and jumping the gun.
Let me give you an example,
"I heard sister sweet that you're into cocaine, if this is true then you're doing a bad thing here and it will lead to your destruction".
^Is this statement bad? does it mean you're guilty of what I said? of course not because I said "if it's true" and then I pointed out the consequences of doing such a thing.
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Tu kaun hai paiiii?
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Assalaamu Alaykum...audhubillah! Ameen to all the du'as...
SubhaanAllah...totally agree.
Back up off the bro please, thanks! It's not cool.
SubhaanAllah...totally agree.
Back up off the bro please, thanks! It's not cool.
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I am equally horrified.
Rather contradictory. Also, I find it highly amusing how you can, with such confidence, say, "there is no negligence on the girl’s part".
Cabdullahi
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if you were doing halal i.e walking from the masjid or the shop and you got raped = no blame
if you went to another country and dined with a stranger on top of a hotel = blame for carelessness ( one cannot make bad choices and expect to be safe all the time )
The sister is dead so i think we should stop speculating we dont know what happened.
if you went to another country and dined with a stranger on top of a hotel = blame for carelessness ( one cannot make bad choices and expect to be safe all the time )
The sister is dead so i think we should stop speculating we dont know what happened.
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If she walked up to a man, in a bikini, then yes, I would blame her for whatever followed.
No one is justifying the crime. What you have read in the above posts were mere speculations.
Salahudeen
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The whole point she is DEAD. We never know her part of the story. There are no ifs or buts. The whole point of him using “ifs” is put the blame of the victim. I am not the only one that concluded this. Bilal is obviously blaming the victim. He is trying to sugar coat the situation especially when he was questioned after his first post.
Bilal is obviously blaming the victim according to you and a few other people, bilal is obviously NOT blaming the victim according to me and a few other people so what does this proove? ;D
This is an extract from his first post,
I high lighted the bit above where he cleared the girl of such charges by saying "Now if this is true" so what is your problem? he is not saying she is guilty, he is simply pointing out the dangers of zinna and all that you quoted came after he said "now if this is true" he didn't bang her to rights and say it's all her fault and she's guilty of zina, he said IF what the reports suggest are true and he has every right to do this. So what is the problem?
Let me explain it to you in a different way, Bilal said if she wasn't with a guardian then it's unfortuante because if she had a guardian with her this might have been prevented.
How do you know she never had a relation with him? are you her blood sister that she confided every intimate detail of her life to? have you seen any witness reports? have you seen any cctv footage? equally you can not say she never had any relation with the man can you?
You are asking what the point is? well let me explain to you, he is saying if she did have a relation let this be a warning to everyone not to go near zina.
hmm lets examine the quote you posted fairly shall we, it seems you are selective in your reading. Below is the post you quoted saying
Now it seems you forgot to mention that at the start akhi bilal said Now if this is true this shows the evil and danger of zina and any kind of it, So what is your problem? he is saying if it is true then she could have prevented it by not getting involved in the relationship.
Is this not in fact a valid statement? And please don't judge him on one post, look at what else he said don't be selective be fair.
The whole point of his posts are from what I can grasp is that you shouldn't, go near zina as it can lead to things like this. Not in any way that the girl is guilty of zina relationship because we don't know if she is or isn't.
You're right the rapist is at fault and what he done can not be justified in any way, but IF she was in a haraam relationship with him then she could of avoided what happened to her by not getting into that relationship. And this is what Bilal is saying I believe what part do you disagree with?
Cabdullahi
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men get raped too 
but nobody cares we dont have no help lines or anything....when men get raped by other aggressive men they just get up and walk it off
but nobody cares we dont have no help lines or anything....when men get raped by other aggressive men they just get up and walk it off
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Salahudeen
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men get raped too
Well if the man was in a haraam relationship with a girl then he could've prevented her from raping him by avoiding this relationship.
Cabdullahi
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Well if the man was in a haraam relationship with a girl then he could've prevented her from raping him by avoiding this relationship.
no you silly lol
i was not talking about that kind of rape......i was talking about men raped by rapist men theres no help line brother 
i get ur point though and i agree
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