Abortion

[Whatsthepoint]

First, let me greet ya - Salaam!:happy:

The ruling of the Catholic church is clear; Life starts with the conception and we have no right to terminate it, no matter the circumstances.
Even if the mother's life is in danger, even if the fetus is deformed...even if both, mother and baby, are in danger, even if the baby has no chances and abortion could at least save the mother - humans have no right to kill - only God can do that. I'm quite pro-life in general, but I find it incredibly pointless to let both of them die just because we aren't supposed to interfere with God's plan...mg:

 

[wilberhum]

i am asking for the ruling of the catholic church in this matter. if you don't know, that's ok. i'm pretty sure that the church takes a different position on this issue than either islam or judaism. i was just looking for confirmation.

In the Catholic Church, you can not take an inocent life for any reason.
You can not take the mothers live to save the baby or visa versa.

Whatsthepoint, did it better and he is correct.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Whatsthepoint, did it better and they are correct.

Who?

 

[wilberhum]

Who?

You! :thumbs_up

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Umm...lol.:smile:

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I support the women's right to chose although I would personally never abort a baby...well, how could I, I'm a bro, but I'm sure you get the point.
In some cases, when the mother's health is at stake, when the baby is damaged and in certain social situatuions, I understand and support women who have to make this tough decision.

I consider abortion to be murder, however an acceptable murder, lesser evil if you will.

 

[wilberhum]

I support the women's right to chose although I would personally never abort a baby...well, how could I, I'm a bro, but I'm sure you get the point.
In some cases, when the mother's health is at stake, when the baby is damaged and in certain social situatuions, I understand and support women who have to make this tough decision.

I consider abortion to be murder, however an acceptable murder, lesser evil if you will.

I'm Pro-Choice. Make your choice before intercourse.
I believe like begins at conception. So for me Abortion = Murder.

But then I have never felt the need to force my beliefs on anyone.

 

[Amadeus85]

I support the women's right to chose although I would personally never abort a baby...well, how could I, I'm a bro, but I'm sure you get the point.
In some cases, when the mother's health is at stake, when the baby is damaged and in certain social situatuions, I understand and support women who have to make this tough decision.

I consider abortion to be murder, however an acceptable murder, lesser evil if you will.

Women sometimes say that it is their womb, their tummy, their case.In world we have many women' defenders.They defend their right to "get rid" the baby.So i think that its good that there are also some people who want to defend the right of the baby to live.Because the baby cant defend by itself.

 

[Malaikah]

The abortion issue would mostly disappear if every one would agree on one thing.
When is it a human?
Is it the moment of conception?
Is it 4 weeks, 4 months, or 4 years?
If you become human at 21 years,
Then it is ok to kill an 18 year old.
So, until you agree on when it becomes human,
You will never be able to agree about abortion.

That is a good question- in Islam abort is allowed only before the soul has been blown in (unless there is a serious risk that the mother may die) but even then it is not allowed to be taken lightly and done for what ever reason!

I support the women's right to chose although I would personally never abort a baby...well, how could I, I'm a bro, but I'm sure you get the point.

Do you mean just because she feels like, or in the case where her life is threatened.

I have to disagree with saving the baby and letting the mother die... especially if she already has children. It just doesn't make sense. How could you save an unborn child and kill a mother, a person whos life has already been so well established and whos death will be much more tragic than that of an unborn child?

 

[Malaikah]

I'm Pro-Choice. Make your choice before intercourse.
I believe like begins at conception. So for me Abortion = Murder.

:thumbs_up :thumbs_up

Women sometimes say that it is their womb, their tummy, their case.In world we have many women' defenders.They defend their right to "get rid" the baby.So i think that its good that there are also some people who want to defend the right of the baby to live.Because the baby cant defend by itself.

Yes, exactly! If the women won't defend their own children, the rest of the world will.

It is absolutely disgusting that people can take abortion so lightly!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I'm Pro-Choice. Make your choice before intercourse.
I believe like begins at conception. So for me Abortion = Murder.

But then I have never felt the need to force my beliefs on anyone.

I agree.
However...When the Germans decided Jews were no longer humans and started killing them, was it inapropriate and wrong for the others to oppose them and "impose their beliefs" on them?:?

 

[wilberhum]

I agree.
However...When the Germans decided Jews were no longer humans and started killing them, was it inapropriate and wrong for the others to oppose them and "impose their beliefs" on them?:?

There are multiple reasons I said:

I have never felt the need to force my beliefs on anyone.

IMHO, no one has the right to harm another based on there beliefs.
Depending how far you want to go "Off Topic" we could start corrolations to WWII. :?

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Do you mean just because she feels like, or in the case where her life is threatened.

When her life is threatened in any way, either medically or socially...if a girl knows her family would kill her for being pregnant, I definitely support abortion.

I have to disagree with saving the baby and letting the mother die... especially if she already has children. It just doesn't make sense. How could you save an unborn child and kill a mother, a person whos life has already been so well established and whos death will be much more tragic than that of an unborn child?

I agree with you.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

IMHO, no one has the right to harm another based on there beliefs.

My thoughts exactly.:salambox:

Depending how far you want to go "Off Topic" we could start corrolations to WWII. :?

It was just a comparison...

 

[snakelegs]

First, let me greet ya - Salaam!:happy:

The ruling of the Catholic church is clear; Life starts with the conception and we have no right to terminate it, no matter the circumstances.
Even if the mother's life is in danger, even if the fetus is deformed...even if both, mother and baby, are in danger, even if the baby has no chances and abortion could at least save the mother - humans have no right to kill - only God can do that. I'm quite pro-life in general, but I find it incredibly pointless to let both of them die just because we aren't supposed to interfere with God's plan...mg:

this all sounds ok in the abstract. but when it comes to letting the mother die when an abortion could save her life, it is killing by omission.
i think the position of islam and judaism makes more sense on this.
btw, welcome to the forum!

 

[wilberhum]

this all sounds ok in the abstract. but when it comes to letting the mother die when an abortion could save her life, it is killing by omission.
i think the position of islam and judaism makes more sense on this.
btw, welcome to the forum!

Life if full of moral dilemmas.
Five people in a four person life boat, do you throw someone over board?
And 9,986 more, at least.

 

[m123]

Roman catholic Church says that human life should be protected since born to natural death, so abortion is wrong always, no matter what week.

the catholic church has become more flexible nowerdays, thats why theres segregation within them.

 

[wilberhum]

the catholic church has become more flexible nowerdays,.

The Catholic Church is about as flexible as a brick wall. :hmm:

thats why theres segregation within them.

Segregation? Would you please explain?
An example would be real nice.

 

[جوري]

according to Islam the soul is breathed into the body before @ around months.. after that, you may take it out and perform proper prayers in case of in utero fetal demise...
in Medicine it is also considered a human being at 4 month and any intentional harm done to the baby then is considered child endangerment punishable by law...

there are intricacies in medicine that are too numerous to discuss here.. but a Doctor has a right to get a court order against a mother and the immediate right to hold her for 72 hours until a judge sees and decides her case..

Abortion before 4 months is legal but laws vary state to state.... some states are very idiotic there is nothing we can do about that.. some states like Oregon have legalized euthanasia but that is a topic for another day.. a Doctor has a right to refuse but not abandon a patient...

In case of harm to the mother.. well the whole medical community will agree it is sometimes a necessary procedure and as per Quran and Allah knows best... ( see only highlighted portion)

ye know not.

وَالْوَالِدَاتُ يُرْضِعْنَ أَوْلاَدَهُنَّ حَوْلَيْنِ كَامِلَيْنِ لِمَنْ أَرَادَ أَن يُتِمَّ الرَّضَاعَةَ وَعلَى الْمَوْلُودِ لَهُ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ لاَ تُكَلَّفُ نَفْسٌ إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا لاَ تُضَآرَّ وَالِدَةٌ بِوَلَدِهَا وَلاَ مَوْلُودٌ لَّهُ بِوَلَدِهِ وَعَلَى الْوَارِثِ مِثْلُ ذَلِكَ فَإِنْ أَرَادَا فِصَالاً عَن تَرَاضٍ مِّنْهُمَا وَتَشَاوُرٍ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِمَا وَإِنْ أَرَدتُّمْ أَن تَسْتَرْضِعُواْ أَوْلاَدَكُمْ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذَا سَلَّمْتُم مَّا آتَيْتُم بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّ اللّهَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ {233}​

[Pickthal 2:233] Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of the child. No-one should be charged beyond his capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child. And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father). If they desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, it is no sin for them; and if ye wish to give your children out to nurse, it is no sin for you, provide that ye pay what is due from you in kindness. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is Seer of what ye do.

However a medical emergency and there are many... from Abruptio placentae, to Molar Pregnancy to Eclampsia convulsions kidney and heart failure etc etc etc can and do happen, BUT IT ISN'T the same as women who use abortion for birth control... You are not up to the responsibility of children, then you are not up to the responsibility of engaging sexually with someone! It is really that simple...
It is really unfortunate that some people will resort to murder of something so innocent for whatever other reason they rationalize in their mind.. I can't understand how it can't be viewed as murder?

peace!

 

[m123]

The Catholic Church is about as flexible as a brick wall. :hmm:

Segregation? Would you please explain?
An example would be real nice.

peace,

Because people like to tailor their beliefs to suit their own desires and convenience. No two people will ever agree exctly on religion, that's the main reason there is so much conflict in the world,someone rebels against their church's doctrine and makes a new one, that gets popular and so forth, an example the church of england, set up by a man,henry the 8th.