Afghanistan Taliban

[glo]

It is good for you to have this kind of view.
Unfortunately, Christians establishments (conservatives, christians right, evangelists, catholic churches, etc) SUPPORT or at least do NOT oppose western invasions and occupations of Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Iran to follow).

TALK is indeed CHEAP.

I agree, naidamar, that not enough establishments speak out against those wars.
Unfortunately I cannot speak for other Christians - I can only speak for myself.
However it would be wrong to give the impression that there are no Christian groups who are against it (the way you worded your sentence gives that impression)

See for yourself:

Thousands of Christians braved frigid temperatures, icy conditions and on 16 March 2007 to protest in Washington DC against the Iraq war - with some 200 facing arrest.
[...]
Evangelical, Catholic, mainline Protestant, Pentecostal and other Christian groups opposed to the war - including the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America - helped organize the protest. Its organizers called "for an end to the US occupation, real support for our troops, a total rejection of torture and an international commitment to the physical and human reconstruction that is so desperately needed in Iraq."

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/4896

The Iraq war is an unjust war and an evil war. We did not have the right before God to destroy Saddam Hussein and kill his people just because we suspected he might eventually attack the U.S

http://pastorsb.com/Iraqwar.htm

The Bush Administration asserts that there is a compelling moral case for a preemptive war against Iraq. Yet over 100 leading Christian ethicists in America disagree. These ethicists have signed a statement expressing their view that no such compelling case has been made.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.ethicists_statement

A majority of British Christians think the government should set a timetable for the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, a poll has suggested.
[...]
Archbishop Rowan Williams launched his own attack on the government over its involvement in the Iraq war earlier this month.
[...]
Saturday saw the latest protest march in London against the war in Afghanistan. Among those attending was Peter Brierley, the father of a dead soldier.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/foreign-policy/christians-want-afghanistan-withdrawal-timetable--$1336306.htm


I am sure I can find plenty more, if you would like me to.
There are people who speak out - and I believe they are growing in numbers.

May we all learn to speak out against injustice and inhumane treatment of those in need and suffering!

 

[Trumble]

The latest cowardly atrocity..... sorry, heroic battle fought by the noble Taliban to defend their lands, and honour of their wives and daughters. Cough... I'd laugh if it wasn't so desperately sad. Thieves and murderers with BS excuses.

UK medic Karen Woo named as Afghanistan shooting victim

 

[Zafran]

The latest cowardly atrocity..... sorry, heroic battle fought by the noble Taliban to defend their lands, and honour of their wives and daughters. Cough... I'd laugh if it wasn't so desperately sad. Thieves and murderers with BS excuses.

UK medic Karen Woo named as Afghanistan shooting victim

Its a pity that we dont know the names of the Afghans that get killed by drone bombings.

 

[syed_z]

Its a pity that we dont know the names of the Afghans that get killed by drone bombings.

The reason because when the Drone drops bombs on innocent men, women and children, the martyrs are too many in numbers, that it might make the Occupational Regimes, even more unpopular in the eyes of the World.


Btw the Article says...

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid claimed the group were found in possession of bibles translated into Dari and had been killed because they were Christian Missionaries.


Well this sounds so familiar, for this has NOT happened the 1st time!


If we closely examine the Evangelical Christian Groups in the Muslim World, the Christian Fundamentalism, has become more than a "religious" mission, rather it has become a tool for the occupational Forces to establish their Rule over Foreign, specially Muslim lands...

According to Yogindar Sikand, an analyst from India:

As is widely believed, many evangelical groups working in the ‘Third World’ are simply fronts for Western agencies and governments, helping to promote their vested interests and strategic goals. This is most readily apparent from the cozy relationship between Christian fundamentalists and the current Bush administration. Right-wing American Christian groups are known to be sources of immense financial support to Israel. They are also vociferous backers of America’s imperialist designs on the Muslim world, seeing these as a divinely mandated crusade against the forces of ‘evil’. These Christian groups also served to promote American interests abroad. Several of them received generous funding from far-right American government lobbies, CIA front organizations, American big business and right-wing think tanks. Many missionaries were appointed as sources of vital information for the CIA, and were used to bolster American hegemony by indoctrination and spreading American propaganda.


Yoginder Sikand, “The Evangelical Challenge: A New Face of Western Imperialism,” The Evangelical Challenge, March 15, 2005. http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display



It is a fact, that when Americans and their Allies NATO attacked Afghanistan, one of the Reasons was that they could see an Islamic State with Quran as the Constitution being implemented, which would show the Blessings inherent in the Shariah (Islamic Law) teachings, and also it could be that such Blessed Rule, might get exported to the neighboring Muslim region thus bringing down the Puppet Muslim Regimes, being supported by the Crusading West. They could not risk such and had to step in the Region and stop it some how....Drugs and Pipe Lines are other factors... and destabilizing the Muslim COuntries was also one, for Israel to become the New Middle East power etc..


So The West uses the Garb of "Religion" and "peaceful Missionaries" to attracts as many followers as possible, so that their mission of Occupation becomes easy....

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

What? That does not justify the attack. Of Course they would have bibles, they are Christians! Did the Taliban have any other proof (that they were trying to convert people) apart from bibles which they could have read during their spare time? I mean would you agree if a Christians were to kill people from Islamic relief because they had the Quran?

It isn’t hard to believe that Muslims from Islamic relief are there to help rather than convert people (like Haiti) but if it was a Christian, they are apparently there to convert people not help. The Taliban had no real proof apart from “bibles”, there is no real justification for this attack in particular. I am appalled at anyone that tries to justify it.

People can disagree with the war but sure doesn’t mean they have to support the Taliban.

 

[syed_z]

Yvonne Ridley, a Former Christian reverted towards Islam, AFTER she was released from being captured by Taliban...not only because Islam is the Truth but also because Taliban treated her with Much Respect.... and she was impressed by the Way they treat women, exactly OPPOSITE of what Western Media says about them....

Please watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0YiKM-hvk&feature=related


Enjoy

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

That still does not justify the attack and other atrocities that Taliban themselves have admitted to. These people were unarmed, they could or should have kept them hostage. One woman vs how many Afghanis?

Again being against the war in Afghanistan does not mean you have to support the Taliban.

 

[Maryan0]

They come into a warzone in the guise of helping and take advantage of the destitute and desperate to spread their religion while their countrymen occupy and kill innocent people and they expect to be shown mercy? What despicable people. What vultures these missionaries are.
*in reference to those 8? people killed recently.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Any proof that they were missionaries and also the fact that they were working there for years, decades as the man claims means nothing. All of the sudden they are trying to convert people and should be killed. Why now? Any proof apart what the Taliban said?

I find ironic that when Taliban is presented in bad light by the media, its all made up etc (which I kind of accept) but when the Taliban themselves say something it is the truth, nothing but the truth.
I am going to say what I say to the western media where is the proof that these people were there to convert people? Where is the photo of the bibles?


I wonder what people would say if Muslims helpers were to be killed by Christians in Christian country.

 

[syed_z]

What? That does not justify the attack. Of Course they would have bibles, they are Christians! Did the Taliban have any other proof (that they were trying to convert people) apart from bibles which they could have read during their spare time? I mean would you agree if a Christians were to kill people from Islamic relief because they had the Quran?

It isn’t hard to believe that Muslims from Islamic relief are there to help rather than convert people (like Haiti) but if it was a Christian, they are apparently there to convert people not help. The Taliban had no real proof apart from “bibles”, there is no real justification for this attack in particular. I am appalled at anyone that tries to justify it.

People can disagree with the war but sure doesn’t mean they have to support the Taliban.

1st of all i don't know what happened at that shooting spot. Niether were you there, niether was i ... and surely the Western Media known to spread Anti Islamic propaganda is NOT whom i trust. The only reason why i posted the above was, to show... yes there has been links between the Christian Missionaries and Western Occupational Regimes. God knows best whether they fired at them 1st or the Missionaries were trying to run away from them or something else.


We need to understand One thing here, Government In Kabul was Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, it was established by the Taliban. The Americans and Nato came and invaded and established a Puppet Regime, which is NOT supported by people, and it should not be hard to figure that out because President of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai is more like Mayor of Kabul... because he has no Writ outside Kabul , and Afghanistan is in control of Taliban and NOT in control of the Puppet Regime. He does not even step out of Kabul , and cannot enter most Areas of Afghanistan, then how is he even considered a President of Afghan ? Yes only because Western Media propagates such... thats why...


So what are the Rules of Taliban, when it was their government, what is their Law and how do they treat such People ? Has it happened before and if it did , then what did Taliban do ?


The Taliban had many times, caught the Missionaries working in Afghanistan and trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, under the Garb of "Aid"... under the Law of Taliban, the Missionaries were warned several times, not to preach stuff like Jesus is the Son of God and Muhammad (saw) was a False Prophet.... May we Seek refuge in Allah (swt) from saying such words and teachings our Kids that Allah has a 'son'.... and so it was August 2001...

the Taliban government in Afghanistan arrested two members of Antioch Community Church: Dayna Curry and Heather Mercer. Curry and Mercer came to Kabul with Shelter For Life, a Christian missionary and relief organization that works in Afghanistan, Angola, Burundi, Honduras, Iran, Iraq, India, Kosovo, Macedonia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Western Sahara. The Taliban were the only one who accused Curry and Mercer of proselytizing, a crime during its regime in Afghanistan.

The Taliban let them go, and they were welcomed back inside America, and President Bush at that time gave a Speech in their honor at the White House Lawn. Their coming back , after being under arrest by the "Evil" Taliban helped the already busy Western Media doing Campaign against the Taliban ....

"They had a calling to serve the poorest of the poor" President Bush said at a White House ceremony shortly after the Hollywood-style rescue of Curry and Mercer. "Their faith was a source of hope that kept them from being discouraged."

But Curry and Mercer were doing more than relief work. Once home, they admitted to violating Afghan law by showing part of a Jesus Film. On top of that, such Missionaries are used as cover to create more agents of the West who can penetrate in to Muslim world and so it can help the Occupational Regimes in their ability to stop the growth of Islam and Muslims....


The Increase of Drug trade in Afghanistan, which is affecting the entire Region and is increasing Drug Addicts in the Muslim World, plus illegal arms Trade which is fueling the fire of Conflict in the Region and Agenda to extract Minerals from Afghanistan and make Gas pipelines and oil pipelines.... PLUS Missionaries doing their Job to help them achieve all of that should answer Sister Sweet , its more than just "converting"...

 

[syed_z]

That still does not justify the attack and other atrocities that Taliban themselves have admitted to. These people were unarmed, they could or should have kept them hostage. One woman vs how many Afghanis?

Again being against the war in Afghanistan does not mean you have to support the Taliban.

Well im sorry i have to, because the Taliban are the only ones whose actions prove that they are against the War.... also the Taliban were taken out because, they had established Islamic Rule ... and Puppet Regime of Afghanistan has brought back all corruption which Taliban had eliminated...

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Well im sorry i have to, because the Taliban are the only ones whose actions prove that they are against the War.... also the Taliban were taken out because, they had established Islamic Rule ... and Puppet Regime of Afghanistan has brought back all corruption which Taliban had eliminated...

Salam

From what you have posted is it from the same Christain group as those people that were killed today?

I don’t know what Islamic rule you are talking about. The "Islamic" rule before the war shouldn’t be classified Islamic anyways. I don’t support them but I rather want the people to decide then foreign forces. I don’t know whether the people want the Taliban or not.

 

[Maryan0]

Any proof that they were missionaries and also the fact that they were working there for years, decades as the man claims means nothing. All of the sudden they are trying to convert people and should be killed. Why now? Any proof apart what the Taliban said?

Any proof that they werent? and years dont mean anything missionaries are quite patient when it serves their purposes. Is the fact that christian missionaries are taking advantage of the poor something new? they've been doing it the world over for years. I may not agree with everything the taliban does but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Particulary when there was a news story a while back of soldiers going around trying to convert people. I dont put it past these people. They are opportunists looking to convert people to their religion in the most lowdown cunning ways. You'll even see it in the west where christian fanatics prey on immigrants who know very little english.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/05/20095485025169646.html

I wonder what people would say if Muslims helpers were to be killed by Christians in Christian country.

If muslims come into a country as occupiers and than go around using help to lure desperate people into Islam than we can use that as an example. But I dont think it happens. I can sympathize with anybody but I just cant sympathize with missionaries. They are vermin and if they all died I wouldnt care.
Salam

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Any proof that they werent? and years dont mean anything missionaries are quite patient when it serves their purposes. Is the fact that christian missionaries are taking advantage of the poor something new? they've been doing it the world over for years. I may not agree with everything the taliban does but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt in this situation. Particulary when there was a news story a while back of soldiers going around trying to convert people. I dont put it past these people. They are opportunists looking to convert people to their religion in the most lowdown cunning ways. You'll even see it in the west where christian fanatics prey on immigrants who know very little english.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/05/20095485025169646.html





If muslims come into a country as occupiers and than go around using help to lure desperate people into Islam than we can use that as an example. But I dont think it happens. I can sympathize with anybody but I just cant sympathize with missionaries. They are vermin and if they all died I wouldnt care.
Salam

Salam

Good points. Allah (swt) knows if these people were really there to help or not.
Your last point, I did read Saudi Arabia went to particular village and converted the people. They helped a couple with twins. I don’t know whether they were there just to convert or were helping as the article presented them in a good light surprisingly. I shall post here once I find it ishallah. I rarely hear Muslims doing it tho apart from something similar like the article I read.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Here is a positive article I was talking about!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8605403.stm

Cameroon's conjoined twins help spread Islam



By Francis Ngwa Niba
Babanki Tungo, Cameroon


Cameroonian conjoined twins Pheinbom and Shevoboh were seen as a bad omen when born, but their successful separation by Saudi surgeons has changed their lives - and the faith of some in their village.


People used to see me carrying them and run away and I felt so guilty and alone

Twins' mother Emerencia Nyumale
They were joined at the chest, abdomen and pelvis when born and some of the delivery nurses in Babanki Tungo, a village in north-west Cameroon, were so shocked by the "strange birth" that they ran out of the small clinic.

The basic medical services in Babanki Tungo were ill-equipped to care for the girls and, following an internet appeal, the Saudi king agreed to pay for them to be flown to Saudi Arabia for surgery in 2007.

The 16-hour operation succeeded in separating the twins and now they each have their own stomach.



Ngong James Akumbu (r), aka "Abdallah", has fathered 13 children
However, nearly three years on from the surgery, serious physical challenges remain.

After the separation, the girls were left with one leg each, and they are now waiting to return to Saudi Arabia to be fitted with artificial limbs and begin the arduous task of learning how to walk.

At the moment, they can only crawl. Even so, the twins are playful, talkative and mischievous - typical four-year-old girls, in fact.

But when they were born, they were anything but typical.

Islamic conversions

Some people in Babanki Tungo - a farming village known for producing many of Cameroon's vegetables - thought they were "satanic gifts" sent to punish their father, who already had 13 other children by two different wives.


Before the school was opened, I was unemployed, had many girlfriends and drank a lot

Koranic school teacher Kum Edwin
Others believed that Pheinbom and Shevoboh were sent to punish the whole village, after a traditional leader in the region was burnt alive by his angry subjects.

"It was very difficult when the babies were still joined together," the girls' mother Emerencia Nyumale remembers.

"People used to see me carrying them and run away and I felt so guilty and alone," she says.

"Thank God all that has ended now since their separation."

The girls' story has had another importance consequence for the people of Babanki Tungo.



Babanki Tungo has seen several conversions to Islam following the twins' separation

The Saudi government is funding an Islamic centre in the village consisting of a mosque, nursery, primary school and health centre.

This has led some village elders to predict that the largely Christian Babanki Tungo will be slowly Islamised.

The twins' parents have taken the lead.

As a mark of appreciation to their daughters' Saudi benefactors, they have converted to Islam.

The girl's father, Ngong James Akumbu, now calls himself "Abdallah", Emerencia goes by "Aisha", and five or their children attend the Islamic primary school.

Blessing or curse?

Kum Edwin, a teacher at the school, has also converted.

"Before the school was opened, I was unemployed, had many girlfriends and drank a lot," says Mr Edwin, who has changed his name to "Abdallah Wagf".


CONJOINED TWINS
Conjoined twins are extremely rare, occurring in as few as one in every 200,000 live births
They are created just a few days after conception - most likely by the incomplete splitting of the fertilised egg
Most are stillborn, and a proportion of those who are born alive do not survive long afterwards
"When I heard an Islamic school will be opened here, I did a three-month Islamic studies [course]… I no longer drink a lot and I am now searching for a wife because having lots of girlfriends is not good."

Many people in Babanki Tungo now see the birth of Pheinbom and Shevoboh as a blessing rather than a curse.

The sight of the twins crawling around the village no longer attracts mistrustful looks, as once it did.

"I always tell every parent to be patient because God always tempts people by showing them bad things which are good things in the future," muses the girls' father.

Indeed, the twins have seen a remarkable change in their fortunes.

From outcasts at birth, they now have their own, separate lives and have played an important part in changing the lives of the people around them.

After all that, learning to walk may prove to be easy.

 

[Maryan0]

I've heard about the Saudi story where they performed an operation on these twins that were attached in africa? The whole family and later the whole village converted to Islam. They did it in honour of the help they recieved from the muslims where as the rest of the village at the time thought the family was cursed and ostracized them. I dont think there was compulsion there. Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia and there'a not much else I can say about that country but their better than most other muslim countries in that they actually help other muslims money wise even though some question their motives ( like spreading their form of Islam) in doing so.
*edit I see you posted the article
Salam

 

[Trumble]

I can sympathize with anybody but I just cant sympathize with missionaries. They are vermin and if they all died I wouldnt care.

Except they wern't 'missionaries', they were medics, trying to save people's eyesight. . What part of that do you Talifans find so hard to grasp? .. sometimes you folks redefine the word 'gullible'. And even if they were distributing these imaginary Bibles, is Islam really so feeble a religion it is justifiable to slaughter 'missionaries' of other religions just to keep people believing in it?!

 

[Maryan0]

So they say. If they were truly medics than Allahu alam. This has nothing to with them trying to spread their religion but more to do with the conditions and manner they choose to do it in. You come into their country as occupiers and murderers and then have the audacity to try to spread your religion and expect to be welcomed with open arms. Afghanistan is a warzone.
What I find indeed gullible is how you people expect to be treated with respect and decency when you illegally occupy another nation and kill it's inhabitants on a daily basis. What part of leave Afghanistan do you people fail to grasp? no "medics" would die and neither would your soldiers.
Salam

 

[Rabi Mansur]

So they say. If they were truly medics than Allahu alam. This has nothing to with them trying to spread their religion but more to do with the conditions and manner they choose to do it in. You come into their country as occupiers and murderers and then have the audacity to try to spread your religion and expect to be welcomed with open arms. Afghanistan is a warzone.
What I find indeed gullible is how you people expect to be treated with respect and decency when you illegally occupy another nation and kill it's inhabitants on a daily basis. What part of leave Afghanistan do you people fail to grasp? no "medics" would die and neither would your soldiers.
Salam

I believe that the doctor who was executed had lived in Afghanistan for 30 years. That was way before the US occupation. These people were not part of an occupation. The Taliban said that one of the reasons for the execution was because they had tried to convert some people to Christianity. Huh? We Muslims can see the hate in a false Christian group burning a Qur'an in Florida but then look the other way when the Taliban EXECUTE Christian missionaries? I don't get the logic here people.

Very inconsistent.

:wa:

 

[جوري]

Except they wern't 'missionaries', they were medics, trying to save people's eyesight. . What part of that do you Talifans find so hard to grasp? .. sometimes you folks redefine the word 'gullible'. And even if they were distributing these imaginary Bibles, is Islam really so feeble a religion it is justifiable to slaughter 'missionaries' of other religions just to keep people believing in it?!

''optometrist'' aren't medics, are they in your neck of the wood? what is an optometrist doing there? talk about hilarity, people can barely butter their bread from their poverty and decades of wars and they send over an optometrist?
I hope this is a lesson for anyone who wants to go to Afghanistan on a 'humanitarian mission' -- Do you feel equally bad when entire villages are bombed in pursuit of osama or the equally elusive easter bunny? or only when humanitarian optometrists on a divine mission are being killed?

I rejoice in no one's death but I really do hope this serves as a deterrent example to overzealous evangelists on a 'humanitarian mission'