America , we feel ur pain , do u feel ours ?

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

When you say "ours" what do you mean? Muslims?

Ummm, I mean thousands & thousands of innocent lives who died because of America.



If a fish is dying in the ocean or any animal is trapped somewhere , so many people get worried , try to save the valuable life of that fish /animal…..ya , that’s good . They have rights to live in this world , too.

But when hundreds peoples death go almost unnoticed in the mainstream media , don’t u feel it’s inhumane ?

Compare the news coverage of the media about 32 death vs thousands death caused by US ……hopefully u will understand what I m trying to say.

When Sunni and Shiia  kill each other  by the hundreds, it's not the fault of Americans!

---read the article of Robert Fisk . Americans were in charge of the Shia mosque ; only when they left , bomb blasted & innocent people died.

It was impossible for any Sunni/Shia or criminals to put the bombs inside the mosque when it was totally under US control.


UK soldiers were caught with bombs & Brit units snatched them away from police station breaking their walls. LOL. I gave these examples more than once …don’t have patience to write in details now.


other replies of the article : imagine if the Virginia Tech Shooting Were Thirty Times Larger



I was DEEPLY offened at Bush's ordering of the U.S. Flag to be flown at half mast for the VT massacre.



If loosing 32 18-22 year olds in Virginia is worthy of the flag being flown at half mast -- how about 3,000 18-42 year olds in Iraq and Afghanistan?



Personally I think we should fly the flag at half mast until this war is over. Maybe it will help remind people of the CONSTANT sacrifice that is being made.


&&



I cant thank you enough for this post. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. Millions displaced or homeless. This is unprovoked, premeditated murder on a grand scale.


If the people of Iraq were cattle Americans would be appalled.



How do you explain this callas indifference to human suffering. Is it just because Iraqis are brown? Are all people around the world as cold and uncaring as Americans?



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/imagine-if-the-virginia-t_b_46134.html

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

hmmmm, imagine 30 times bigger...hmm.. ya know, there come the Twin Towers in USA to my mind. All what I saw on Al Jazeera were people in Bagdad cheering on the streets for the thousands, who have been killed. Is that the way, 'YOU' feel the pain ? oh well...

i have heard that CNN showed some cheerful Muslims after the 9/11 tragedy. I guess , they did that to show solidarity with Palestine Muslims who are suffering under zionists ( with the help of US ) since decades.

May be , they thought now it will be possible for Americans to understand the pain of the opressed Muslims. The cevere pain their thousands of Muslims brothers & sisters went / are going through .

anyway , No Muslim should feel happy at other people's sorrow ......it's un-Islamic .

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

does ANYONE know CHOY THE MURDER's religion? NO! no one does. BECAUSE WHY? BECAUSE HE WASNT MUSLIM....

---ya , a very good point. Media ALWAYS relate crime with religion when even the accused person is a Muslim. Media don't do the same when the proved criminal is a non-Muslim. LOL

 

[tomtomsmom]

I can not speak for every American. I can only speak for myself.

Yes the school shootings here were terrible. I feel sorry for all of the people affected. And I am outraged that it happened.

Just as I am outraged from the killings in Iraq. The starving citizens of Africa and the refugees in Darfur, the homeless, the victims, the hated, the blacks, the whites, the browns, the pink with purple polka-dots. Any person that is being dealt an unjust life.

As far as the media coverage goes, I was having this same conversation with my mother the other day. I get very.......upset with what is going on in the world as a whole. She is completely oblivious. She only watches the news long enough to see the weather and then it is something else. I told her that as a whole Americans have to demand to know what is really going on and then do something about it. She simply shook her head and said that if we knew what was going in then it would shatter the illusion that everything is going to be OK.


I am a mother. My number one job in this world is to protect my child. I do not want him to grow up in this world. I do not want him to see the hate and evil that I have seen. So my answer to the question is, YES sister I feel the pain of the world and it scares me to death. My concern is how can it be stopped so my little boy doesn't have to grow up and feel it too?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

... YES sister I feel the pain of the world and it scares me to death. My concern is how can it be stopped so my little boy doesn't have to grow up and feel it too?

--hope , many more Americans will start thinking like u & also do something to stop evil Bush.
( is it possible for devil to come in to this world as human form ?? )


An American mom Cindy Seehan is calling other moms to join her in a protest rally on ( I forgot now …..13 or 14 May 2007 ). I WISH HER ALL THE BEST.

 

[Keltoi]

This thread seems more like another in a long list of threads dedicated to blaming the U.S. for Iraqis slaughtering themselves, with a few statements about how wrong it is for Americans to mourn 32 dead college kids because there is a war going on. Oh, and somebody was "offended" that the American flag is at half mast. God forbid Americans have a reaction when Americans die.

 

[tomtomsmom]

This thread seems more like another in a long list of threads dedicated to blaming the U.S. for Iraqis slaughtering themselves, with a few statements about how wrong it is for Americans to mourn 32 dead college kids because there is a war going on. Oh, and somebody was "offended" that the American flag is at half mast. God forbid Americans have a reaction when Americans die.

I agree that the flag should be flown at half mast for the VT students. HOWEVER it should also be flown at half mast for every American that dies fighting in any war.

 

[Keltoi]

I agree that the flag should be flown at half mast for the VT students. HOWEVER it should also be flown at half mast for every American that dies fighting in any war.

Well, flying the flag at half mast is largely reserved for national tragedies and the death of leaders. When a soldier dies you fly the flag high. Yes, it is a tragedy for the family and friends of the deceased soldier, but the expected action of the U.S. government and people is not to lower the flag, but to fly it high and support those who are still in harms way. It is a way to honor the dead. Military and American tradition, in other words.

 

[tomtomsmom]

Well, flying the flag at half mast is largely reserved for national tragedies and the death of leaders. When a soldier dies you fly the flag high. Yes, it is a tragedy for the family and friends of the deceased soldier, but the expected action of the U.S. government and people is not to lower the flag, but to fly it high and support those who are still in harms way. It is a way to honor the dead. Military and American tradition, in other words.

No offense but I know all about the military traditions with flags. A week ago today I sat and watched my grandfather's flag get folded and handed to me right before they put him in the ground.

My point is-every soldier that dies in battle should be a national tragedy. Not a 3 second blip on the evening news.

 

[Keltoi]

No offense but I know all about the military traditions with flags. A week ago today I sat and watched my grandfather's flag get folded and handed to me right before they put him in the ground.

My point is-every soldier that dies in battle should be a national tragedy. Not a 3 second blip on the evening news.

I wasn't suggesting it wasn't a national tragedy. My family has a large collection of folded American flags dating back to World War I. I understand what you mean, don't think I don't. The nation should be thankful for your grandfather's service, and thankful for all those who gave their most prized possession in service to their country.

 

[.:Umniyah:.]

This thread seems more like another in a long list of threads dedicated to blaming the U.S. for Iraqis slaughtering themselves, with a few statements about how wrong it is for Americans to mourn 32 dead college kids because there is a war going on. Oh, and somebody was "offended" that the American flag is at half mast. God forbid Americans have a reaction when Americans die.

And this seems to be your very obviously wrong preception. When you seem to think american is scott free of any crimes in Iraq....If in so this is the case then for the 2nd time WHAT ON EARTH ARE THEY DOING OVER THERE!! People refuse, namely americans, to accept that beautiful ol america could possibly be responsible for any such thing. BUT then again in beautiful ol america is where more than HALF the serious criminals and idiots come from.

And get over this dumb concept that anyone on here is saying its wrong to mourn the death of anyone. Someone could have a heartattack and die over over his pet fly and no one should have a thing to say to the one who mourns that persons death. So stop digging up buried bones. Because that statment is way dead and long dismissed because everyone keeps saying over and over that NO ONE has a problem with you or anyone else mourning over whatever they want.

and besides this, has not ANYone on here watched Alex Joness' video on the 9/11 ordeal, the one entittled 'Loose Change'. Well if you HAVENT watched it, then watch and be enlightened.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5651675924179685534&q=Alex+Jones+Loose+Change

And besides this Keltoi, im surprised at your standing so firmly behind a country who pretty much goes agaisnt every LAW in your book. And I say this because your way of life says "christian" How is it possible to stand behind america so firmly, and be christian at the same time? when america doesnt hold one moral law of christianity in their "man made" laws....how could you follow the Laws of God in the "bible" then turn right around and support whole heartedly a country built on everything BUT what Jesus taught.

As for me, I am american, i am half puerto rican too, and i am a human race, but ABOVE ALL of that! i am a MUSLIM, and i dislike anyone, or anything who/that go against what Allah teaches in his Holy Book Al Quran. So no its nothing about hate, and i disliked greatly how someone could be so ignorant as to kill people because "he felt like he had to do what he had to do, when the time came" but at the same time, Me disliking Choy actions makes me no more patriotic than i was 2 weeks ago. The death of 31 students is sad and upsetting to think about, but it doesnt justify anymore americas government actions.

 

[Keltoi]

People refuse, namely americans, to accept that beautiful ol america could possibly be responsible for any such thing. BUT then again in beautiful ol america is where more than HALF the serious criminals and idiots come from.

Very constructive.

and besides this, has not ANYone on here watched Alex Joness' video on the 9/11 ordeal, the one entittled 'Loose Change'. Well if you HAVENT watched it, then watch and be enlightened.

That tells me alot of where you're coming from.

And besides this Keltoi, im surprised at your standing so firmly behind a country who pretty much goes agaisnt every LAW in your book. And I say this because your way of life says "christian" How is it possible to stand behind america so firmly, and be christian at the same time?

I am a Christian living in a secular country. I believe in democracy and secular government, even if I don't agree with many things going on in the country because of my faith.

The death of 31 students is sad and upsetting to think about, but it doesnt justify anymore americas government actions.

I don't remember anyone suggesting 32 dead college students justified anything. This thread was about drawing some sort of moral parallel between Americans mourning dead kids and the Iraq War, when in my mind there is no parallel.

 

[.:Umniyah:.]

Very constructive.



That tells me alot of where you're coming from.


Just say you refuse to watch the truth. It can tell you whatever you want it to, but did you watch it? Judge off facts not off what you think exprience has taught you.
I am a Christian living in a secular country. I believe in democracy and secular government, even if I don't agree with many things going on in the country because of my faith.

And thats okay for you, but to me it sounds really impossible. How can you believe one thing and support another? That doesnt make any sense at all. When someone believes in something truthfully they support it, stand behind it, and if needed will DIE for it. Juses didnt teach democracy so how can you believe in it? He taught his people to believe in GOD!!!!!! LAWS, not the laws that mankind thought to be Good for themselves aka democracy.



I don't remember anyone suggesting 32 dead college students justified anything. This thread was about drawing some sort of moral parallel between Americans mourning dead kids and the Iraq War, when in my mind there is no parallel.

And just because no one suggested it doesnt mean i cant make a statment now does it? I said that because so many people do that, i didnt say you or anyone else suggested it on HERE but its what happens everytime a tragedy happens in america, they stand behind AMERICA....wheres the praise to God for the ones who were merely injuried and didnt die? Wheres Gods name for the ability he gave to the police officers and ambulance who got there in time to save 20 plus lives of the injuired....but rather its a bunch of jubberish about america and bush and flags being flown. Show some Repsect and THAT MUCH PRAISE to the Lord who allowed man to ever created the stupid flag, PLAGE an ALLIGANCE to GOD, not some red white and blue cloth that'll turn into dust jus like the human in the casket they wrap it around. This is my issue here, pay attention to the bigger picture of your life, and you'll see how much you support this country and stand behind its every word...if you paid that much attention to the Lord above you'd be a very righteous pious person. As would be the case with every american who praise the country rather the one who created it. democracy holds NO vaule in a truly religious person heart, nor does it stand in any religion.

 

[Keltoi]

And just because no one suggested it doesnt mean i cant make a statment now does it? I said that because so many people do that, i didnt say you or anyone else suggested it on HERE but its what happens everytime a tragedy happens in america, they stand behind AMERICA....wheres the praise to God for the ones who were merely injuried and didnt die? Wheres Gods name for the ability he gave to the police officers and ambulance who got there in time to save 20 plus lives of the injuired....but rather its a bunch of jubberish about america and bush and flags being flown. Show some Repsect and THAT MUCH PRAISE to the Lord who allowed man to ever created the stupid flag, PLAGE an ALLIGANCE to GOD, not some red white and blue cloth that'll turn into dust jus like the human in the casket they wrap it around. This is my issue here, pay attention to the bigger picture of your life, and you'll see how much you support this country and stand behind its every word...if you paid that much attention to the Lord above you'd be a very righteous pious person. As would be the case with every american who praise the country rather the one who created it. democracy holds NO vaule in a truly religious person heart, nor does it stand in any religion.

Democracy, especially constitutional democracy, has value to me because it is the most tolerant and stable form of government yet invented. Does it equal religious perfection? No. I don't expect it to. I'm free to worship as I see fit, and live my life the best I know how. You don't believe in nationalism, that is fine, but I am patriotic and I love my country. That doesn't interfere with my faith.

 

[.:Umniyah:.]

Democracy, especially constitutional democracy, has value to me because it is the most tolerant and stable form of government yet invented. Does it equal religious perfection? No. I don't expect it to. I'm free to worship as I see fit, and live my life the best I know how. You don't believe in nationalism, that is fine, but I am patriotic and I love my country. That doesn't interfere with my faith.

Which is a prime reason why, when a person wants to learn about something, study the THING not the PEOPLE of it. You keep following how you do. And i'll keep living by Gods Laws.

 

[Keltoi]

Which is a prime reason why, when a person wants to learn about something, study the THING not the PEOPLE of it. You keep following how you do. And i'll keep living by Gods Laws.

What "thing", democracy? You say live by God's Laws. You live in the U.S. If you can follow God's Laws and still live in a secular country, what is the point you're trying to make? I follow God's Laws to the best of my ability too, and I live in a secular country. Are you the only one special enough to follow God's Laws and live in a secular society?

 

[Muezzin]

Wait a second. This discussion has kind of veered away from the first post. Secularism is a valid discussion in a thread of its own.

 

[Keltoi]

Wait a second. This discussion has kind of veered away from the first post. Secularism is a valid discussion in a thread of its own.

It's probably my fault for responding to off-topic posts.

 

[Muezzin]

It's probably my fault for responding to off-topic posts.

Well, I'm not pointing any fingers since it won't really solve the problem.

Everyone, any off-topic posts after this post will be deleted.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Keltoi :

God forbid Americans have a reaction when Americans die.

--nobody is telling u not to mourn over tragic death in USA.


But does it mean that 200 deaths under US occupation will be ignored by the media & US people will act normally day after day when because of their country VC tragedy are taking place daily in other countries ?



How many died in 9/11 tragedy ?3 thousands
( maximum ) & how many innocent people killed by America while taking revenge ? 25 thousands
( it's the minimum no: admitted by US President also ....remember his famous remark about the civilian killing in Iraq )?


IF ur heart bleeds for 31 students ( i m not saying that u must not feel
sad ) ; also try to feel the pain of thousands ( if not millions ) of Iraqi & Afghan mothers who lost their kids because of USA. Is it too much to expect ?


also another question came in to mind about the media . Don't u think , time has come ( actually people should have raised this question long ago against media ) about the news treatment .

This joke may help u to understand the double standard of the media .



A man is taking a walk in Central park in New York. Suddenly he sees a little girl being attacked by a pit bull dog .



He runs over and starts fighting with the dog. He succeeds in killing the dog and saving the girl's life.


A policeman who was watching the scene walks over and says: "You are a hero, tomorrow you can read it in all the newspapers: "Brave New Yorker saves the life of little girl"


The man says: - "But I am not a New Yorker!"


"Oh ,then it will say in newspapers in the morning: 'Brave American saves life of little girl'" – the policeman answers.


"But I am not an American!" – says the man. "Oh, what are you then? "

The man says: - "I am a Saudi !"


The next day the newspapers says: "Islamic extremist kills innocent American dog.

Joke posted by bro Azhar786


Ok, forget about Iraqi & Afghan people. Think about dead Americans . u can read article of a mom & Yes , she is an American.



Who Grieves For Them?


By Mary Pitt

They fly home under cover of night and then are treated as baggage on commercial flights until they are taken to their home town.



Their family, friends, and neighbors turn out for their funeral with none taking notice.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17581.htm



While spending my usual Sunday morning, watching the news shows on television, I founds myself in total empathy with the parents of the slain college students at Virgina Tech.



Having lost a child of my own a year ago, I understand intimately the pain which they now must bear.

….Without taking a thing from the sympathy for the Blacksburg parents, I realized that these young people who are dying in Iraq are contemporaries of the college kids.


Who grieves for them?


While we have lost a hundred children in that conflagration for every student who fell prey to the mad gunner, the nation mourns only those who were presumably safe from harm while those who fell in service to our country are hidden from our sight and rarely mentioned by name unless they qualify as "heroes".