America , we feel ur pain , do u feel ours ?

[Keltoi]

Muslim Woman:

But does it mean that 200 deaths under US occupation will be ignored by the media & US people will act normally day after day when because of their country VC tragedy are taking place daily in other countries

Ignored by the media? I wake up every morning to stories about 100 Iraqis, 50 Iraqis, 30 Iraqis,etc, killed in suicide market bombings, hospitals, schools, etc. The media isn't ignoring Iraqi civilian deaths. You can argue about why they are so keen to cover the issue, but that is another thread.

IF ur heart bleeds for 31 students ( i m not saying that u must not feel
sad ) ; also try to feel the pain of thousands ( if not millions ) of Iraqi & Afghan mothers who lost their kids because of USA. Is it too much to expect ?

What makes you think Americans don't care about the issue? Of course we care. That is what will get Americans out of Iraq, when people aren't getting killed on a daily basis. You seem to believe it is the fault of Americans and the government that suicide bombers are blowing up civilians right and left. I agree that the U.S. responsible, but in a different way than you do. The U.S. is responsible for a power vaccum, not for making Iraqis slaughter each other. All that being said, I'm sure most Americans are effected by the stories they see of Iraqi civilians being blown up and butchered like cattle. Because of the senselessness and the inhumane brutality. Americans feel helpless, not emotionless.

 

[Khan-Ghalgha]

Americans feel that Iraqi situation doesn't improve their security, that's why they worried, otherwise who gives a heck about Iraqis dying?(generally speaking), it would've been OK for Americans no matter how many are dying as long as it improves their safety(generally speaking again).

The support for the war was and still is(or what's left of it) found on fear and revenge, americans wanned to secure/get back on the middle east, doesn't really matter what country in particular, as long as it's muslim.

That's why when people got to know that the official pretense was just a blatant lie, impeaching Bush wasn't even on the agenda, Bush went as far as joking about it, while Clinton was about to get impeached for being unfaithful to his wife and lying about it.

When official reason wasn't there any longer, support for war remained(more or less), americans are still believing their troops doing the job, they only criticize the methods of achieving it, but not the fact it's an illegal invasion, no WMD"s... bla bla bla, it doesnt really matter, security matters.

People wanned actions after 9/11, they got it, and reelected Bush cos he delivered what people wanned - tough response. Any candidate who is gonna talk about world peace, immediate pull-out and doing stuff diplomatically is gonna loose, try to find a candidate for american president with real chances who says about peacefull solution to world problems(islamic threat as a main one).

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;


Keltoi :

Ignored by the media?   I wake up every morning to stories about 100 Iraqis, 50 Iraqis, 30 Iraqis,etc

---yap , dead Iraqi people are numbers to US media , that’s why u heard about the statistics only and not the human interest stories / featurised news that touches our emotions behind the numbers.

Read the 2nd post of this thread.

..... what will get Americans out of Iraq, when people aren't getting killed on a daily basis.

---OH MY GOD.

First it was WMD , then …..i forgot now ……cruelty of Saddam or 9/11 linking ??? NOW , if no more killing …..fine .

Insha Allah , I will try to find the article of Robert Fisk where he described how the US army is behind this.

Americans feel helpless, not emotionless.

- And they showed their emotions /support through election. Bush is their DEAR PRESIDENT.

 

[Keltoi]

Muslim Woman:

---yap , dead Iraqi people are numbers to US media , that’s why u heard about the statistics only and not the human interest stories / featurised news that touches our emotions behind the numbers.

We might see some human interest stories if journalists weren't in danger of being beheaded for being out in the street.

---OH MY GOD.

First it was WMD , then …..i forgot now ……cruelty of Saddam or 9/11 linking ??? NOW , if no more killing …..fine .

Insha Allah , I will try to find the article of Robert Fisk where he described how the US army is behind this.

This isn't about what got us to where we are, but how to get out of it. Americans would leave tomorrow if there was semblance of stability in Iraq. The irony behind these attacks and bombings meant to cause chaos is that they only harden the U.S. stance.

And they showed their emotions /support through election. Bush is their DEAR PRESIDENT

.

Bush is their "dear" president? I guess he must not be too "dear" with a 32% approval rating.

 

[Sami Zaatari]

Muslim Woman:


We might see some human interest stories if journalists weren't in danger of being beheaded for being out in the street.

---OH MY GOD.


This isn't about what got us to where we are, but how to get out of it. Americans would leave tomorrow if there was semblance of stability in Iraq. The irony behind these attacks and bombings meant to cause chaos is that they only harden the U.S. stance.




Bush is their "dear" president? I guess he must not be too "dear" with a 32% approval rating.

good point, america will leave if there was stability, and the country was very stable when saddam was there, america goes in and destabilizes the whole place. i mean at least if america found WMD's they could have an excuse, yet the WMD's were never found which was the main reason for the war, and the whole region got destabilized all because of cooked up fake evidence. and its late here, good night.

 

[Grace Seeker]

good point, america will leave if there was stability, and the country was very stable when saddam was there, america goes in and destabilizes the whole place. i mean at least if america found WMD's they could have an excuse, yet the WMD's were never found which was the main reason for the war, and the whole region got destabilized all because of cooked up fake evidence. and its late here, good night.

I find myself in general agreement with the basic thoughts of this post.

I can't speak for all Americans, in fact I fear I can't even speak for most Americans, but I think several contrasting things are true and hold them all at the same time:
1) The USA should have never invaded Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein
2) Ousting Saddam Hussein is the one right thing that the USA has done in this war.
3) The USA should get out of Iraq as quickly as possible. By staying we perpetuate the existing conflict.
4) Leaving an unstable Iraq would be the only thing worse than what we have already done. So we can't leave unless we are willing to watch Iraq self-destruct and know that we set those events in motion.


I don't have a solution. I think our present political leadership is unable to come up with a solution and gropes about blindly in the wrong direction, but I don't have a better option.

In answer to this thread's original question, yes, I do feel your pain. I grieve over the children who have witnessed so much horror with their own eyes that they might never be whole persons again. I weep for families who say good-bye to one another for a trip to something as simple as to buy food and realize it could be the last time they ever see one another. I silently scream at the reports of doors being kicked in by people looking for everything from terrorists in hiding to someone to kidnap for ransom. And I am outraged at the senselessness of the whole thing from the American occupation to the obvious internal civil war all in the name of what? Of peace? Of internaltional security? Of a right of self determination? Of taking control of the government? Tell that to the dead and wounded. Tell that to the dispossed? Tell that to the homeless, the helpless, the hopeless. I don't think the world (America, Iraq, or any place else) is a better place for all the conflict. The only ones who have won anything are those who like to promote hate.

 

[Keltoi]

good point, america will leave if there was stability, and the country was very stable when saddam was there, america goes in and destabilizes the whole place. i mean at least if america found WMD's they could have an excuse, yet the WMD's were never found which was the main reason for the war, and the whole region got destabilized all because of cooked up fake evidence. and its late here, good night.

The goal of the war was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. The goal now is stability..post-Saddam.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The goal of the war was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. The goal now is stability..post-Saddam.

That may be the case, but we have planned and executed this war terribly. If that is all that it was about we could have been in and out 3 years ago.

 

[Keltoi]

That may be the case, but we have planned and executed this war terribly. If that is all that it was about we could have been in and out 3 years ago.

Taking out Saddam was the easy part. I agree with you though, we should have left 3 years ago and left the country to sort out its own power vaccum. However, people, meaning the civilian leadership, thought it would be better to play policeman for a few years in the middle of a bloodbath. There are alot of could have, should have, but in the end we are there and must try to reach some kind of acceptable outcome, i.e stability.

 

[guyabano]

Salaam/peace;

---ya , a very good point. Media ALWAYS relate crime with religion when even the accused person is a Muslim. Media don't do the same when the proved criminal is a non-Muslim. LOL

Yes, it is sad to hear, but fact is also, History show us, that most wars have been led in the name of a God or a religion, and sad to say, actually, in the 20/21st Century, Islam is always in the headlines. So people worldwide get fed up with that.
Now, who can we blame for that? The medias or the ones who do these crimes?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Islam is always in the headlines. So people worldwide get fed up with that.
Now, who can we blame for that? The medias or the ones who do these crimes?

--sorry , i did not get ur point.

Take example of Sri Lanka.... i always heard of Tamil Guerillas (!) fighting with Govt---no mention of religion.

Are they Hindus , Buddist , Christians ? IF they were Muslims , surely MEDIA would have related this war /unrest with religion.

I don't have courage to think that if the korean student were a Muslim , how media surely have started propaganda against ISLAM & Muslim.



NOW , i don't know if he was a Christian or Atheist or what ? It's for sure that he was not a Muslim ; Islam just escaped a media trial........thanks God.



But , still , there is a chance /risk . If someone claims that he was a revert MUSLIM , then media won't miss that chance .....i m sure about that.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

The goal of the war was to remove Saddam Hussein from power. The goal now is stability..post-Saddam.

Cheney: Iraq pullout would hurt Israel :

"We must consider, as well, just what a precipitous withdrawal would mean to our other efforts in the war on terror, to our interests in the broader Middle East, and to Israel,"

the U.S. vice president said over the weekend to a Republican Jewish Coalition leadership gathering in Latana, Fla.


http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/100844.html

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

...We might see some human interest stories if journalists weren't in danger of being beheaded for being out in the street.

----huh , Bush wanted to drop bomb on
Al -Jazeera off. Many journalists came under fire by US troops. Forgot the nationality , most probably an Italian journalist was shot dead by US troop.

Bush is their "dear" president? I guess he must not be too "dear" with a 32% approval rating.

--what ratiing has to do with election result ? BUSH was already proven a great liar about WMD , still Americans elected him.

about Shia / Sunni clashes , bomb blasts , some interesting info are given below.

British armed forces broke into Basra jail, and freed two undercover, "British" agents arrested by the Iraqi police while allegedly traveling in an unmarked car, in civilian - some say Arab - dress, and in possession of explosives.



If, as some allege, their purpose was to attack Iraqis, and make it appear to be the work of other Iraqi's, it would lend substance to allegations that the Americans and/or British are responsible for some of these attacks.

At the very least, the 'British' agents may be classified as unlawful combatants, and if incarcerating unlawful combatants indefinitely in Guantanamo is lawful, then the Iraqis should have the right to hold the 'British' agents.


http://www.twf.org/News/Y2005/0928-Basra.html

 

[tomtomsmom]

Salaam/peace;



--sorry , i did not get ur point.

Take example of Sri Lanka.... i always heard of Tamil Guerillas (!) fighting with Govt---no mention of religion.

Are they Hindus , Buddist , Christians ? IF they were Muslims , surely MEDIA would have related this war /unrest with religion.

I don't have courage to think that if the korean student were a Muslim , how media surely have started propaganda against ISLAM & Muslim.



NOW , i don't know if he was a Christian or Atheist or what ? It's for sure that he was not a Muslim ; Islam just escaped a media trial........thanks God.



But , still , there is a chance /risk . If someone claims that he was a revert MUSLIM , then media won't miss that chance .....i m sure about that.

The news isn't just the news anymore.
It is a ratings race. The more juicy a story the more people watch it. And thanks to 9/11 a muslim in this country jaywalking is a big story. Not saying that it is right, but that is the way it is. People in the USA are uneducated about the Islamic faith. They know what they see on the news. And what they see on the news is whatever can be said to boost ratings.


With the thousands on top of thousands of muslims in this country why not make an organized effort to make "your" own news program. Even if it isn't widely shown, perhaps it could start some sort of grassroots effort to inform people of what things should be and not what they are. And before anyone says it I will........................If you go to any mosque you will hear the message of this. But facts are that the majority of Americans that have no knoweldge of Islam don't even know what a mosque is and if they did are more than likely to be to afraid to go. There are cable channels that have nothing but christan programs on 24 hours a day. For an American to see anything Islamic they have to have special programming through a satelite dish. And trust me.......it isn't cheap. Unless they know something about it and want more then no one is going to want to pay $50 a month for programs that they can't even understand cause they are all in arabic anyway.


Just a thought...............I will shut up now.....

 

[MTAFFI]

you know what I find interesting about this thread... The title is "America, we feel your pain, do you feel ours?" To answer your question, yes I think the vast majority of Americans believe that the lose of any life is a waste. I think this is proven in the president approval ratings and by the American peoples own admissions from time to time. As far as you feeling our pain, no one really asked you to, it happened on our soil, by someone who was a citizen of our country, and it has nothing to do with foreign policy or any other country, so therefore it is an internal affair. If you wish to send your condolences they are very much appreciated, but if you wish to "compare" one tragic event to another, what is your point?

 

[Keltoi]

you know what I find interesting about this thread... The title is "America, we feel your pain, do you feel ours?" To answer your question, yes I think the vast majority of Americans believe that the lose of any life is a waste. I think this is proven in the president approval ratings and by the American peoples own admissions from time to time. As far as you feeling our pain, no one really asked you to, it happened on our soil, by someone who was a citizen of our country, and it has nothing to do with foreign policy or any other country, so therefore it is an internal affair. If you wish to send your condolences they are very much appreciated, but if you wish to "compare" one tragic event to another, what is your point?

That is the way I feel about it too. This thread is confusing to me because I fail to see the point behind it. Of course the off-topic posts don't help.

 

[King Solomon]

. IF it were soley the case that Iraqis and killing themselves then american soliders would have no need to be over there. Funny how they werent "killing" themsleves beforehand.

Wow so when did they shoot the footage of all of Saddam's mass graves at the Skywalker Ranch? They do good work cause all those grieving Iraqis looked so real.

 

[King Solomon]

Ummm, I mean thousands & thousands of innocent lives who died because of America.

You mean the ones at the mosques, schools, and marketplaces? Oh wait they died at the hands of suicide bombers.

If a fish is dying in the ocean or any animal is trapped somewhere , so many people get worried , try to save the valuable life of that fish /animal…..ya , that’s good . They have rights to live in this world , too.

Depends on the animal, Tuna and Lake Perch is awful tasty.

But when hundreds peoples death go almost unnoticed in the mainstream media , don’t u feel it’s inhumane ?

They lead with coverage about iraq and people dying. What channels are you watching? Turn to CNN right now and I bet they are talking about Iraq.

Compare the news coverage of the media about 32 death vs thousands death caused by US ……hopefully u will understand what I m trying to say.

And the media got blasted about it didn't they?

When Sunni and Shiia  kill each other  by the hundreds, it's not the fault of Americans!

How is it American faults when right here on this site people claim that Shia aren't true muslims because of idol worship?

---read the article of Robert Fisk . Americans were in charge of the Shia mosque ; only when they left , bomb blasted & innocent people died.

Robert Fisk has been thoroughly proven to be a fraud.

It was impossible for any Sunni/Shia or criminals to put the bombs inside the mosque when it was totally under US control.

Sorry but American troops don't go in mosques unless invited due to winning "hearts and minds"

I cant thank you enough for this post. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. Millions displaced or homeless. This is unprovoked, premeditated murder on a grand scale.

I would say trying to kill an ex-president is provocation. Also Iraqs past actions were enough to worry the US

If the people of Iraq were cattle Americans would be appalled.

Not if it was Grade A Angus, then it would be good eatting

How do you explain this callas indifference to human suffering. Is it just because Iraqis are brown? Are all people around the world as cold and uncaring as Americans?

Are you sure you wanna go this route? Last time I checked Condi Rice, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzalez, and Zalmay Khalilzad are awful brown

 

[King Solomon]

Salaam/peace;




---ya , a very good point. Media ALWAYS relate crime with religion when even the accused person is a Muslim. Media don't do the same when the proved criminal is a non-Muslim. LOL

Well when Cho was killing people I'm sure he wasn't yelling PRAISE JESUS! Like some muslims yell Allah Wahbah

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Well when Cho was killing people I'm sure he wasn't yelling PRAISE JESUS!

--LOL . when anti-abortion Christian groups carry attacks , what do they say ? They do this in the name of religion ; why media don't bash Jesus (p) or Bible for their action then ?

Because of the Crusaders , any media ever condemned Bible or Christians? Forget about national tragedy.....take examples of family problem. I wrote about this in other forum more than once....running out of patinece , so writing briefly.

Media never say that Christian women are beaten /murdered by their Christian husband in the west . But when it reports about the same problem , it's the Muslim women who are oppressed , it's because of Islam , all Muslim men are bad .....media give this kind of impressions.

Is it so hard to understand the double standard of the media ? Did u read the joke i re-posted here ?