Answering Atheism in one paragraph

[جوري]

He claimed to be "answering atheism in one paragraph". He gave more than one paragraph and has not mentioned anything requiring Allah, or any other sort of Gods. Nothing is answered. This OP refutes itself.

That's not how science works - the only way of supporting your hypothesis is to refute the null hypothesis. Rather than trying to prove your idea (the alternate hypothesis) right you must show that the null hypothesis is likely to be wrong – simply to ‘refute’ or ‘nullify’ the atheist claim and whatever is left is what's probable within a certain confidence depending on how tight we've chosen to make it in the first place.

Atheist beliefs aren't so mysterious we've discussed them amply before- they've neither proven that God doesn't exist or isn't necessary nor have they provided a sound reasonable explanation to the world they find themselves in and what's in it keeping in mind that we and other things that exist in it weren't always here.
So that's where sis. Zaria's parody of the atheist manifesto rings hilariously true- all just appeared ex nihilo = your often repeated and always absurd 'God isn't needed or necessary'!
Hope that clarifies it!

Best,

 

[Independent]

the only way of supporting your hypothesis is to refute the null hypothesis

I haven't made a hypothesis.

Rather than trying to prove your idea (the alternate hypothesis)

What idea? What alternative hypothesis? I haven't made one.

they've neither proven that God doesn't exist

I didn't say they had - in fact i specifically said science can't prove it one way or the other.

Hope that clarifies it!

No, your use of English is as erratic and ambiguous as ever and you've also changed the subject.

To summarise: I haven’t made a hypothesis so I don’t need to support it. This thread is about Mohammad’s hypothesis - not mine, not Pygo’s, not anyone else’s.

Mohammad's hypothesis rests on the assumption that our universe is a closed system. He presents this as an established fact. It's not, so his 'proof' is not 'proven'.

If he wants to make a ‘something can’t come from nothing’ hypothesis based on an alternative premise, and construct a different proof, he is welcome. Hopefully he will rejoin this discussion at some point.

 

[Pygoscelis]

That's not how science works - the only way of supporting your hypothesis is to refute the null hypothesis. Rather than trying to prove your idea (the alternate hypothesis) right you must show that the null hypothesis is likely to be wrong – simply to ‘refute’ or ‘nullify’ the atheist claim and whatever is left is what's probable within a certain confidence depending on how tight we've chosen to make it in the first place.

No attempt to do that was made in the OP. No "atheist claim" is referred to, addressed, refuted or nullified. If the universe is a closed system (and it may not be), he has made no argument as to why that would require a God.

Atheist beliefs aren't so mysterious we've discussed that amply before- they've neither proven that God doesn't exist or isn't necessary nor have they provided a sound reasonable explanation to the world they find themselves in and what's in it

They don't have to. Nor could they. You can't disprove the unfalsifiable. If you really want to look at it scientifically, you would have to state a way in which your magic God could be falsified and then go and test it. If the universe wasn't thought to be a closed system, but an open system, or a static system I bet you the religious would claim that as evidence for their God. Oh, look at history, they did just that.

all just appeared ex nihilo = your often repeated and always absurd 'God isn't needed or necessary'!
Hope that clarifies it!

Logic Fail. Those two statements are not equal. You assume the closed system. Moreover, you special plead for your God to be "outside of time and space" so it could start the universe. If your God can be "outside of time and space", then I see no reason why other things or forces or entities couldn't also be.

Even if you were able to establish a first cause, you still wouldn't have shown any reason to think it is sentient, intelligent, a God, much less your particular God who wants X, Y, and Z from you.

 

[جوري]

I haven't made a hypothesis.

Are you Pyg, or simply confused as to what part you play since last night and wanted to piggy back ride on someone who has a more cohesive point of view?

What idea? What alternative hypothesis? I haven't made one.

Indeed.. which begs the Q of what you're doing insinuating yourself here? If you want to jump back in the thread then take care of post #14.

No, your use of English is as erratic and ambiguous as ever and you've also changed the subject.

My English isn't on trial! I suspect however, that you've never taken a science course in your life; one which you can integrate in a proper dialogue to make a useful point and when at a loss mostly sustained to your ego go about attacking my 'English'.
What should be on trial is your mental status but again this isn't the appropriate place for it. We've an advise and support section, along with the funnies section both are probably where you should concentrate your efforts!

best,

 

[جوري]

No attempt to do that was made in the OP. No "atheist claim" is referred to, addressed, refuted or nullified. If the universe is a closed system (and it may not be), he has made no argument as to why that would require a God.

See my previous post. You haven't made an argument at how a system open or closed can be without a God. I have already stated we weren't always in existence along with billions of other species. I'll be waiting for you to showcase how they magically appeared.. perhaps when a platypus mated with a donkey mankind came about... but I expect you to put those two together from scratch with a sprinkle of sun and water and sand & dispose of that first cause!

They don't have to. Nor could they. You can't disprove the unfalsifiable. If you really want to look at it scientifically, you would have to state a way in which your magic God could be falsified and then go and test it. If the universe wasn't thought to be a closed system, but an open system, or a static system I bet you the religious would claim that as evidence for their God. Oh, look at history, they did just that.

ha? what? see my first statement.. you're in fact starting with a double negative. You've neither given a concise scientific explanation to the world you find yourself in, nor conceded to the obvious default conclusion which by the way I find nothing at all magical about. The rest we're going to attribute to your inner child.

Logic Fail. Those two statements are not equal. You assume the closed system. Moreover, you special plead for your God to be "outside of time and space" so it could start the universe. If your God can be "outside of time and space", then I see no reason why other things or forces or entities couldn't also be.

I assumed neither-- I am merely commenting on what the atheists come up with from the original premise!
I don't use physics to believe in God or Bioengineering - we can all arrive to the same conclusions using different branches!

Even if you were able to establish a first cause, you still wouldn't have shown any reason to think it is sentient, intelligent, a God, much less your particular God who wants X, Y, and Z from you.

Again, no point discussing finite details if you don't agree with the premise itself. Then we'd be both wasting each others time!


best,

 

[Independent]

Are you Pyg, or simply confused as to what part you play since last night and wanted to piggy back ride on someone who has a more cohesive point of view?

For the last time, NO ONE has put a hypothesis forward except MohammadR, who seems to have disappeared. How many times do you have to be told this?

one which you can integrate in a proper dialogue to make a useful point and when at a loss mostly sustained to your ego go about attacking my 'English'

Utter gibberish. The only thing I can be sure of, is that there's bound to be some more gratuitous abuse hidden in there somewhere.

 

[جوري]

For the last time, NO ONE has put a hypothesis forward except MohammadR, who seems to have disappeared. How many times do you have to be told this?

This suggests otherwise:

There are hundreds of reasons that could be.

I am simply waiting for them.. and again neither of my posts were addressing you. Your portion of the events ended with post #14

Utter gibberish. The only thing I can be sure of, is that there's bound to be some more gratuitous abuse hidden in there somewhere.

and what do you call your statement above? If you dislike the reactions you receive, it is best you have a look at what part you played to merit it!

best,

 

[~Zaria~]

Greetings,

Who are you quoting here?

The author is unknown. Ive retained the quotation marks to indicate that I do not lay claim to this gem - as simplistic as it may be, it surely does place things into perspective.

Why do religious folks always try to tell atheists that they believe the universe came from nothing? It could be cyclical. It could be split off from a multiverse. We don't have to pretend to know. We can admit we don't know. There is no need to invent magical God creatures and pretend they created the universe just so we can claim to have the answer.

The universe either came from 'something'.
Or from 'nothing'.

If it came from 'something'......then where did that 'something' come from? Something else? And where did that 'something else' come from? 'Something else'?.....And where did that 'Something else' come from?.....
We can continue ad lib on this course of thought, but at some point we have to end at a Source - the Creator.

If the universe came from 'nothing' - then......you keep trying to convince yourself of that!
Good luck!




Isn't it a great pity, that when the Creator of ALL that exists has openly DECLARED so, via means of His messengers (peace be upon them) and revelations over time - there are those who turn their faces away, in mock and denial?

Yet, this very group could not even create the wing of a fly - even if they put all of their efforts together!

The created ones.....who themselves can create nothing......but have the arrogance to deny the One who gave them life and continues to sustain them.
They have no adequate answers to their existence.
By their own admissions - they admit that they 'dont know'.

Yet, when messengers come to inform them of their existence - they claim magic!

SubhanAllah! (Glory is to Allah!)


Is this magic?
Such precision in all of creation.....has occurred by pure co-incidence/ chance? It can be seen over and over again, in all aspects of life......

You go on telling yourself this.

We'll go on preparing for our greater purpose in life - the meeting of our Lord, our Creator. All praises are due to Him alone.

 

[TJ-alcapone]

The universe either came from 'something'.
Or from 'nothing'.

If it came from 'something'......then where did that 'something' come from? Something else? And where did that 'something else' come from? 'Something else'?.....And where did that 'Something else' come from?.....
We can continue ad lib on this course of thought, but at some point we have to end at a Source - the Creator.

If the universe came from 'nothing' - then......you keep trying to convince yourself of that!
Good luck!

Firstly the notion of nothingness is ludicrous and something that philosophers have failed to define for centuries. But for the sake of argument, let's presume nothingness as a negation of something.

No one knows anything beyond the big bang. The big bang is a broad theory that has been accepted time and again through various branches of scientific study. All we can trace back to is a singularity that was immensely dense and hot. What caused the expansion (the bang) or what was before that (this question might even be invalid as the realm of time and space didn't come to be) there are no answers yet.

And when physicists like Lawrence Krauss use the term nothing, it is vastly different from what you are intending it to work as. So don't misconstrue words because of your religious dogma.

They have no adequate answers to their existence.
By their own admissions - they admit that they 'dont know'.

Yet, when messengers come to inform them of their existence - they claim magic!

The fact that there are no adequate scientific answers yet for certain questions doesn't mean that you should interject intermittently with ridiculous religious notions. Humans have done that for centuries and mistakenly so. Same was said of the diversity of live on earth, and then came Darwin who blew religious dogma away with strong evidence. Same will hopefully come of other intellectual pursuits such as cosmology and the inception of life. But for answers to come, mankind has to first acknowledge ignorance on some matters and secondly pursue the scientific method. Clasping hands in prayer and resorting to a ancient books written by desert people is not going to suffice.

 

[Independent]

Greetings Zaria. i had a quick look at your video - it covers a wide range of subjects.

Just to point out immediately however, the claims for the geographical significance of the location of Mecca are based on the use of the kilometre (a measurement introduced by Napoleon) and the Greenwich meridian (an imaginary line created by the British).

Neither of whom are generally credited with much divine insight.

Take these away and the 1618 number disappears.

Also, according to what i have looked at quickly, the figures are not accurate and the location he describes is actually 172 miles distant from Mecca.

 

[~Zaria~]

No one knows anything beyond the big bang. The big bang is a broad theory that has been accepted time and again through various branches of scientific study.

Yes indeed - as you say: ''THE BIG BANG IS A BROAD THEORY".

But as expected, the phrase that follows, has absolutely no substance: "that has been accepted time and again through various branches of scientific study."
Care to reveal to us the 'scientific study' that has proven the Big Bang? Go on, humour us!
A theory that can not be recreated......but has been 'accepted'?

Truly, one who falls for this, is one who will fall for anything.

What caused the expansion (the bang) or what was before that (this question might even be invalid as the realm of time and space didn't come to be) there are no answers yet.

Yes, yes - we understand.....theres lots of 'IFs', 'Buts', 'Maybe's', 'We dont know', 'there are no answers yet'.
Please, avoid wasting our times, and perhaps come back to us with something more definitive.

We wont be holding our breathes......its already been a couple hundred centuries.

And when physicists like Lawrence Krauss use the term nothing, it is vastly different from what you are intending it to work as. So don't misconstrue words because of your religious dogma.

Wow, do you mean there is ANOTHER meaning for the term 'NOTHING'?
Lol!
You guys certainly are a funny bunch.

The fact that there are no adequate scientific answers yet for certain questions doesn't mean that you should interject intermittently with ridiculous religious notions.

The only ridiculousness thus far are your own answers......or we should rather say, LACK thereof.

and then came Darwin who blew religious dogma away with strong evidence.

And then you end with this one-liner!
LOL!

For a bunch who have completely no evidences, just random hypotheses - that are held so fastly by, as though they were fact - your'll surely have alot to say.

Thanks for the comedy.

Regards

 

[Pygoscelis]

You've neither given a concise scientific explanation to the world you find yourself in, nor conceded to the obvious default conclusion which by the way I find nothing at all magical about. The rest we're going to attribute to your inner child.

I don't need to. I have admitted here and numerous times before that I don't pretend to know what I do not know. That should be the default conclusion for things we don't know.

God of the Gaps is NOT a valid default conclusion. We have erroneously invoked it over and over throughout history at the limits of human understanding. At one point thunder was said to be angry Gods, disease was said to be evil spirits or punishment from God for wrongdoing, etc.

Once we learned how these things really work empirical explanation replaced this erroneous "default conclusion", pushing the Gods of the Gaps further and further back, and believers have had to reform their claims and understandings of how exactly God is behind it all. Eventually we may wind up with no solid claims left for how God interferes in human affairs beyond something like "God is love" or "God is empathy", etc, something that atheists don't actually deny exists but have been calling by other names.

The rest of your post we will attribute to your inner child.

 

[~Zaria~]

Just to point out immediately however, the claims for the geographical significance of the location of Mecca are based on the use of the kilometre (a measurement introduced by Napoleon) and the Greenwich meridian (an imaginary line created by the British).

Neither of whom are generally credited with much divine insight.

Lets retrace our steps:

If we believe man was created by God......and man 'invented' a means of measurement......then, is that 'invention' not actually belonging to God himself?
The One who created man.
Is the One who created everything he (man) 'creates'.

It is not possible for man to 'create' anything.

Even the fire that he kindles.....comes from the wood that he cut.....that comes from the trees - that his own hands cannot, and will not be able to ever create.

So, perhaps re-thing the 'divine insight' behind the above.

Also, according to what i have looked at quickly, the figures are not accurate and the location he describes is actually 172 miles distant from Mecca.

Thanks for the insight.
I think I will go with the figures that are quoted in the video - that no doubt, the authors spent more than a 'quick' look to deduce.

 

[جوري]

I don't need to. I have admitted here and numerous times before that I don't pretend to know what I do not know. That should be the default conclusion for things we don't know.

God of the Gaps is NOT a valid default conclusion. We have erroneously invoked it over and over throughout history at the limits of human understanding. At one point thunder was said to be angry Gods, disease was said to be evil spirits or punishment from God for wrongdoing, etc.

You can't state that you don't need to present evidence and at the same time in the next statement speak of 'God of the Gaps' and then further meander the post with irrelevant comments about thunder gods and harvest gods. As I stated before, there's no point discussing finite details if you don't accept the premise, if you're going to find a flaw in the premise, then you must counter it with something more substantial than I don't have to, or catch all terms like 'God of the Gaps' otherwise what is the point of having what should be a fruitful discussion on the subject?

best,

 

[TJ-alcapone]

Yes indeed - as you say: ''THE BIG BANG IS A BROAD THEORY".

But as expected, the phrase that follows, has absolutely no substance: "that has been accepted time and again through various branches of scientific study."
Care to reveal to us the 'scientific study' that has proven the Big Bang? Go on, humour us!
A theory that can not be recreated......but has been 'accepted'?

Truly, one who falls for this, is one who will fall for anything.

Mathematics, Quantum Physics, Relativity and amongst other branches of science, all corroborate on the basic frame works of the big bang. And I hope you don't rehash the much repeated misconceived meaning of what a scientific theory is. A scientific theory is not speculation, not conjecture, but the highest title given to broad study of a phenomenon of the natural world that has been repeatedly confirmed through experiments, observation and predictions. I don't know what your level of education is, but you are showing an exceedingly lacking standard in understanding some elementary concepts of the natural world. Your teachers would be disappointed.

Wow, do you mean there is ANOTHER meaning for the term 'NOTHING'?
Lol!
You guys certainly are a funny bunch.

Yes, depending on your perspective, nothing would mean one of many things that are entirely different to one another. To a physicist like Lawrence Krauss Nothing to Dr. Krauss would be empty space or the quantum vacuum. To many including Einstein, quantum vacuum was not 'nothing'. The space time fabric to him was indeed 'something'. In mathematics nothing could refer to a null set. These are entirely different concepts. Your lack of philosophical rigor is pitiable.

 

[TJ-alcapone]

I wasn't entirely sure about the Islamic Creation story. But I knew that it was very similar to the one in Judaism and Christianity. I posted below an English translation I found. I am assuming it to be correct for all purposes.

In the time before time, God was. And when God wants to create something, all he needs to say is "Be", and it becomes. So it was that God created the world and the heavens. He made all the creatures, which walk, swim. Crawl and fly on the face of the earth. He made the angels, and the sun, moon and the stars to dwell in the universe. And consider, as the Qur'an says, how God poured down the rain in torrents, and broke up the soil to bring forth the corm, the grapes and other vegetation; the olive and the palm, the fruit trees and the grass. Then it was that God ordered the angels to go to the earth, and to bring seven handfuls of soil, all of different colours, from which he could model man. God took the seven kinds of earth and moulded them into a model of a man. He breathed life and power into it, and it immediately sprang to life. And this first man was called Adam. God took Adam to live in Paradise. In Paradise, God created Eve, the first woman, from out of Adam's side. God taught Adam the names of all the creatures, and then commanded the angel to bow down before Adam. But Iblis, one amongst the angels, refused to do this, and thus began to disobey God's will. God place the couple in a beautiful garden in Paradise, telling them that they could eat whatever they wanted except the fruit of on forbidden tree, But the evil one tempted them to disobey God, and eat the fruit. When God knew that Adam and Eve had disobeyed him, he cast them out of Paradise and sent them to earth. But God is merciful. The earth was created to give food, drink and shelter to the human race. The sun, moon and stars give light. It is a good world, where everything has been created to serve people. And people, the Qur'an teaches, should serve God and obey his will. For those who submit to the will of God will be saved, and taken to live for ever in Paradise.

And Islamic people hold this to be plausible, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence for the big bang? Laughable to say the very least. Even contemporary fiction writers could have come up with a more poetic story.

 

[Pygoscelis]

The universe either came from 'something'.
Or from 'nothing'.

Add "Or it has always been" and I think you've got it covered, yes.

If it came from 'something'......then where did that 'something' come from? Something else? And where did that 'something else' come from? 'Something else'?.....And where did that 'Something else' come from?.....
We can continue ad lib on this course of thought, but at some point we have to end at a Source - the Creator.

Why so? Perhaps it goes back infinitely. Perhaps not. I don't pretend to know.

If there is a first cause, then you have a creator, yes, or a creation force. I see no reason to assume it is a being, a sentient being, an intelligent being, a God being, or your particular God being.

Isn't it a great pity, that when the Creator of ALL that exists has openly DECLARED so, via means of His messengers (peace be upon them) and revelations over time - there are those who turn their faces away, in mock and denial?

You mean people claiming to be his messengers. Keep in mind that false prophets have claimed to be messengers of false Gods. False Gods have also had holy books written for them. That your God and those speaking for him operate in the same or a similar way, makes me skeptical. I see no reason to see yours as genuine. I also have to wonder why a real all powerful God would restrict the transmission of his message to books, prophets, and other such human limitations. It seems to me he could transmit the message in a unique way that only an all powerful being could, or that he could just make it simply appear in our heads as fact.

 

[جوري]

And Islamic people hold this to be plausible, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence for the big bang?

in what way does the story of creation contradict the big bang, perhaps you can enlighten us?

[h=1]The Quran on the Expanding Universe and the Big Bang Theory[/h] [TABLE="class: contentpaneopen"]
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Description: This article delineates the correlation between the most accepted scientific explanation of the origin and expansion of the Universe, and the description of its origin and expansion in the Quran.
By Sherif Alkassimi (© 2008 IslamReligion.com)
Published on 16 Jun 2008 - Last modified on 01 Jul 2008
Viewed: 61348 (daily average: 37) - Rating: 4.4 out of 5 - Rated by: 86
Printed: 1321 - Emailed: 81 - Commented on: 1
Category: Articles > Evidence Islam is Truth > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran
Category: Articles > The Holy Quran > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran

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[TD] [h=2]Hubble’s Law[/h] For thousands of years, astronomers wrestled with basic questions concerning the universe. Until the early 1920’s, it was believed that the universe had always been in existence; also, that the size of the universe was fixed and not changing. However, in 1912, the American astronomer, Vesto Slipher, made a discovery that would soon change astronomers’ beliefs about the universe. Slipher, noticed that the galaxies were moving away from earth at huge velocities. These observations provided the first evidence supporting the expanding-universe theory.[1]

Before the invention of the telescope in 1608, man could do little more than wonder about the origin of the universe. (Courtesy: NASA)

In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting. Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble.
By observing redshifts[2] in the light wavelengths emitted by galaxies, Hubble found that galaxies were not fixed in their position; instead, they were actually moving away from us with speeds proportional to their distance from earth (Hubble's Law). The only explanation for this observation was that the universe had to be expanding. Hubble’s discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy. In 1929, he published the velocity-time relation which is the basis of modern cosmology. In the years to come, with further observations, the expanding-universe theory was accepted by scientists and astronomers alike.

With the Hooker Telescope, Hubble discovered that the galaxies were moving away us. Above are photos of known galaxies. (Courtesy: NASA)

Yet, astonishingly well before telescopes were even invented and well before Hubble published his Law, Prophet Muhammad used to recite a verse of the Quran to his companions that ultimately stated that the universe is expanding.
“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Quran 51:47)
At the time of the revelation of the Quran, the word “space” was not known, and people used the word “heaven” to refer to what lies above the Earth. In the above verse, the word “heaven” is referring to space and the known universe. The verse points out that space, and thus the universe, happens to be expanding, just as Hubble’s Law states.
That the Quran mentioned such a fact centuries before the invention of the first telescope, at a time when there was primitive knowledge in science, is considered remarkable. This is more so considering that, like many people in his time, Prophet Muhammad happened to be illiterate and simply could not have been aware of such facts by himself. Could it be that he had truly received divine revelation from the Creator and Originator of the universe?
[h=2]The Big Bang Theory[/h] Soon after Hubble published his theory, he went on to discover that not only were galaxies moving away from the Earth, but were also moving away from one another. This meant that the universe happened to be expanding in every direction, in the same way a balloon expands when filled with air. Hubble’s new findings placed the foundations for the Big Bang theory.
The Big Bang theory states that around 12-15 billion years ago the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point, and that something triggered the explosion of this point that brought about the beginning of the universe. The universe, since then, has been expanding from this single point.
Later, in 1965, radio astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson made a Noble Prize winning discovery that confirmed the Bing Bang theory. Prior to their discovery, the theory implied that if the single point from which the universe came into existence was initially extremely hot, then remnants of this heat should be found. This remnant heat is exactly what Penzias and Wilson found. In 1965, Penzias and Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) that spreads through the universe. Thus, it was understood that the radiation found was a remnant of the initial stages of the Big Bang. Presently, the Big Bang theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists and astronomers.

A microwave map of the leftover from the Big Bang that gave birth to the universe. (Courtesy: NASA)

It is mentioned in the Quran:
“He (God) is the Originator of the heavens and the earth…” (Quran 6:101)
“Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them? Yes; and He is the Knowing Creator. His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” (Quran 36:81-82)
The above verses prove that the universe had a beginning, that God was behind its creation, and all that God needs to do inorder to create is to say “Be,” and it is. Could this be an explanation as to what triggered off the explosion that brought about the beginning of the universe?
The Quran also mentions:
“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)
Muslim scholars who have explained the previous verse mention that the heavens and earth were once one, and then God caused them to separate and form into the seven heavens and Earth. Yet, due to the limitations of science and technology at the time of the revelation of the Quran (and for centuries to follow), no scholar was able to give much detail about how exactly the heavens and earth were created. What the scholars could explain was the precise meaning of each word in Arabic in the verse, as well as the overall meaning of the verse.
In the previous verse, the Arabic words ratq and fataq are used. The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”. The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence. The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”. These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq.
With the introduction of the Big Bang theory, it soon became clear to Muslim scholars that the details mentioned with regards to the theory go identically hand in hand with the description of the creation of the universe in verse 30 of chapter 21 of the Quran. The theory states that all the matter in the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point; that exploded and brought about the beginning of the universe, matches what is mentioned in the verse that the heaven and Earth (thus the universe) where once joined together, and then split apart. Once again, the only possible explanation is that Prophet Muhammad had truly received divine revelation from God, The Creator and Originator of the universe.

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Footnotes: [1] The First Three Minutes, a Modern View of the Origin of the Universe, Weinberg.

[2] When the light an object emits is displaced toward the red end of the spectrum. (http://bjp.org.cn/apod/glossary.htm)


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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Earth’s Atmosphere [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Origin of the Universe [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Cerebrum [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Seas and Rivers [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Clouds [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Miracle of Iron [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] Some of the Scientific Miracles in Brief [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 1 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 2 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 3 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 4 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 5 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 6 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Earth’s Atmosphere [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Mountains [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Origin of the Universe [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Cerebrum [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Seas and Rivers [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Clouds [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Miracle of Iron [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] Some of the Scientific Miracles in Brief [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 1 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 2 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 3 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 4 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 5 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 6 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 7 of 10) [/TD]
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http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1560/

btw do you feel that peppering your posts with a disdainful undertone to give your comments here more credence?

best,

 

[جوري]

And Islamic people hold this to be plausible, especially in the face of overwhelming evidence for the big bang?

in what way does the story of creation contradict the big bang, perhaps you can enlighten us?

The Quran on the Expanding Universe and the Big Bang Theory

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Description: This article delineates the correlation between the most accepted scientific explanation of the origin and expansion of the Universe, and the description of its origin and expansion in the Quran.
By Sherif Alkassimi (© 2008 IslamReligion.com)
Published on 16 Jun 2008 - Last modified on 01 Jul 2008
Viewed: 61348 (daily average: 37) - Rating: 4.4 out of 5 - Rated by: 86
Printed: 1321 - Emailed: 81 - Commented on: 1
Category: Articles > Evidence Islam is Truth > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran
Category: Articles > The Holy Quran > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran

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[TD] Hubble’s Law

For thousands of years, astronomers wrestled with basic questions concerning the universe. Until the early 1920’s, it was believed that the universe had always been in existence; also, that the size of the universe was fixed and not changing. However, in 1912, the American astronomer, Vesto Slipher, made a discovery that would soon change astronomers’ beliefs about the universe. Slipher, noticed that the galaxies were moving away from earth at huge velocities. These observations provided the first evidence supporting the expanding-universe theory.[1]

Before the invention of the telescope in 1608, man could do little more than wonder about the origin of the universe. (Courtesy: NASA)

In 1916, Albert Einstein formulated his General Theory of Relativity that indicated that the universe must be either expanding or contracting. Confirmation of the expanding-universe theory finally came in 1929 in the hands of the well known American astronomer Edwin Hubble.
By observing redshifts[2] in the light wavelengths emitted by galaxies, Hubble found that galaxies were not fixed in their position; instead, they were actually moving away from us with speeds proportional to their distance from earth (Hubble's Law). The only explanation for this observation was that the universe had to be expanding. Hubble’s discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy. In 1929, he published the velocity-time relation which is the basis of modern cosmology. In the years to come, with further observations, the expanding-universe theory was accepted by scientists and astronomers alike.

With the Hooker Telescope, Hubble discovered that the galaxies were moving away us. Above are photos of known galaxies. (Courtesy: NASA)

Yet, astonishingly well before telescopes were even invented and well before Hubble published his Law, Prophet Muhammad used to recite a verse of the Quran to his companions that ultimately stated that the universe is expanding.
“And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.” (Quran 51:47)
At the time of the revelation of the Quran, the word “space” was not known, and people used the word “heaven” to refer to what lies above the Earth. In the above verse, the word “heaven” is referring to space and the known universe. The verse points out that space, and thus the universe, happens to be expanding, just as Hubble’s Law states.
That the Quran mentioned such a fact centuries before the invention of the first telescope, at a time when there was primitive knowledge in science, is considered remarkable. This is more so considering that, like many people in his time, Prophet Muhammad happened to be illiterate and simply could not have been aware of such facts by himself. Could it be that he had truly received divine revelation from the Creator and Originator of the universe?
The Big Bang Theory

Soon after Hubble published his theory, he went on to discover that not only were galaxies moving away from the Earth, but were also moving away from one another. This meant that the universe happened to be expanding in every direction, in the same way a balloon expands when filled with air. Hubble’s new findings placed the foundations for the Big Bang theory.
The Big Bang theory states that around 12-15 billion years ago the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point, and that something triggered the explosion of this point that brought about the beginning of the universe. The universe, since then, has been expanding from this single point.
Later, in 1965, radio astronomers Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson made a Noble Prize winning discovery that confirmed the Bing Bang theory. Prior to their discovery, the theory implied that if the single point from which the universe came into existence was initially extremely hot, then remnants of this heat should be found. This remnant heat is exactly what Penzias and Wilson found. In 1965, Penzias and Wilson discovered a 2.725 degree Kelvin Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMB) that spreads through the universe. Thus, it was understood that the radiation found was a remnant of the initial stages of the Big Bang. Presently, the Big Bang theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists and astronomers.

A microwave map of the leftover from the Big Bang that gave birth to the universe. (Courtesy: NASA)

It is mentioned in the Quran:
“He (God) is the Originator of the heavens and the earth…” (Quran 6:101)
“Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them? Yes; and He is the Knowing Creator. His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.” (Quran 36:81-82)
The above verses prove that the universe had a beginning, that God was behind its creation, and all that God needs to do inorder to create is to say “Be,” and it is. Could this be an explanation as to what triggered off the explosion that brought about the beginning of the universe?
The Quran also mentions:
“Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30)
Muslim scholars who have explained the previous verse mention that the heavens and earth were once one, and then God caused them to separate and form into the seven heavens and Earth. Yet, due to the limitations of science and technology at the time of the revelation of the Quran (and for centuries to follow), no scholar was able to give much detail about how exactly the heavens and earth were created. What the scholars could explain was the precise meaning of each word in Arabic in the verse, as well as the overall meaning of the verse.
In the previous verse, the Arabic words ratq and fataq are used. The word ratq can be translated into “entity” “sewn to” “joined together” or “closed up”. The meaning of these translations all circulate around something that is mixed and that has a separate and distinct existence. The verb fataq is translated into “We unstitched” “We clove them asunder” “We separated” or “We have opened them”. These meanings imply that something comes into being by an action of splitting or tearing apart. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is a good example of a similar illustration of the meaning of the verb fataq.
With the introduction of the Big Bang theory, it soon became clear to Muslim scholars that the details mentioned with regards to the theory go identically hand in hand with the description of the creation of the universe in verse 30 of chapter 21 of the Quran. The theory states that all the matter in the universe came into existence from one single extremely hot and dense point; that exploded and brought about the beginning of the universe, matches what is mentioned in the verse that the heaven and Earth (thus the universe) where once joined together, and then split apart. Once again, the only possible explanation is that Prophet Muhammad had truly received divine revelation from God, The Creator and Originator of the universe.

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Footnotes: [1] The First Three Minutes, a Modern View of the Origin of the Universe, Weinberg.

[2] When the light an object emits is displaced toward the red end of the spectrum. (http://bjp.org.cn/apod/glossary.htm)


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[TD] Category: Articles > Evidence Islam is Truth > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Earth’s Atmosphere [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Human Embryonic Development [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Mountains [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Origin of the Universe [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Cerebrum [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Seas and Rivers [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Clouds [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Miracle of Iron [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] Some of the Scientific Miracles in Brief [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 1 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 2 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 3 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 4 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 5 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 6 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 7 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD] Category: Articles > The Holy Quran > The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Earth’s Atmosphere [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Human Embryonic Development [/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Mountains [/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Origin of the Universe [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on the Cerebrum [/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Seas and Rivers [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Quran on Clouds [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] Scientists’ Comments on the Scientific Miracles in the Holy Quran [/TD]
[/TR]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Miracle of Iron [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Victory of the Romans and the Lowest Point on Earth [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] Some of the Scientific Miracles in Brief [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 1 of 10) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 2 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 3 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 4 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 5 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 6 of 10) [/TD]
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[TD="class: otherarticle"] The Amazing Quran (part 7 of 10) [/TD]
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[/TABLE]

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1560/

btw do you feel that peppering your posts with a disdainful undertone to give your comments here more credence?

best,

 

[~Zaria~]

A scientific theory is not speculation, not conjecture, but the highest title given to broad study of a phenomenon of the natural world that has been repeatedly confirmed through experiments, observation and predictions.

Forgive me, but your posts are amusing.

The 'Big Bang' has NOT been confirmed through EXPERIMENTS, NOR OBSERVATION (lol).

It is instead a speculation, laced with fancy scientific probabilities and very little facts.

I don't know what your level of education is, but you are showing an exceedingly lacking standard in understanding some elementary concepts of the natural world. Your teachers would be disappointed.

Lol.

Yes, depending on your perspective, nothing would mean one of many things that are entirely different to one another. To a physicist like Lawrence Krauss Nothing to Dr. Krauss would be empty space or the quantum vacuum. To many including Einstein, quantum vacuum was not 'nothing'. The space time fabric to him was indeed 'something'. In mathematics nothing could refer to a null set. These are entirely different concepts. Your lack of philosophical rigor is pitiable.

The fact that there are some who have chosen to provide alternatives to the definition of 'NOTHING', bears absolutely no weight with me.
If YOU have chosen to follow blindly in these meaningless definitions, then that is your choice.

As I said, the one who can fall for such baseless theories, is one who will fall for anything.

For the rest of mankind - 'NOTHING' means the 'absence of something'.

And so, if you wish to believe that creation arose from 'NOTHING' - then, you may continue to follow this illogical train of thought at your own peril.
In fact, the description of atheism provided in my first post can become your mantra.

Atheism

"The belief that there was nothing
and nothing happened to nothing
and then nothing magically
exploded for no reason, creating
everything and then a bunch of
everything magically rearranged
itself for no reason what so ever
into self replicating bits which
then turned into dinosaurs.

Makes sense, huh?


As you chose.


Regards.