Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

[Muslim Woman]

... one of my sts asked ma'm 'is it sin if we tear and jump on a bible'
and I asked ' would you like to see anyone tear and jump on Qur'an?' ' you don't have to believe in other people's holy things but you have to respect them if you want them to respect your holly things.'
he blushed and said he'll never do a such an action again.

regards

lovely....thanks for sharing this :statisfie

 

[A-Way-Of-Life]

Didn’t one of the companions of the prophet (PBUH) have a piece of the torah, and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) told him to destroy it? I think this proves the Muslims should not read any of the previous altered scriptures.

 

[Walter]

Hi A Way of Life:

Can you please provide evidence from the Koran of this incident?

Regards,
Grenville

 

[Walter]

Hi Everyone:

Let me conclude this thread for completeness.

1. From our discussions it appears that Mohammed wanted Muslims to read the Books that came before.

2. These Books were available at the time of Mohammed and are therefore available to us today in the Bible.

3. Mohammed obviously knew that the original Books were unavailable, but he had sufficient confidence in the copies to recommend their use.

The question that begs an answer is: Why would Mohammed ask his followers to read the Books which came before? The obvious answer is: in order to understand the Koran in its entirety.

As explained in a previous thread, Christians can never hope to understand certain concepts stated in the Gospels without reading the Old Testament Books sent to the Israelites where such concepts are fully explained. Similarly, Muslims can only speculate about certain concepts that are introduced in the Koran until they read the Books sent before which explains them.

It would appear that Muslim teachers have deliberately kept Muslims away from the Books that were sent before; perhaps for fear that they may convert to Judaism or Christianity? It should be noted that Christians do not read the Old Testament in order to convert to Judaism, and I am aware of no Christian that has ever converted to Judaism through reading the Israelite or Jewish scriptures.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[nocturne]

Hi Everyone:

Let me conclude this thread for completeness.

1. From our discussions it appears that Mohammed wanted Muslims to read the Books that came before.

2. These Books were available at the time of Mohammed and are therefore available to us today in the Bible.

3. Mohammed obviously knew that the original Books were unavailable, but he had sufficient confidence in the copies to recommend their use.

Regards,
Grenville

When was the bible compiled?

Before the Bible was compiled, there were many other gospels which were rejected by the church.The bible that is here today, might not be the one that existed during their time.


Have a look at this documentary => Banned from the Bible (please use Bittorrent to download the file)

 

[Curaezipirid]

Hi Everyone:

Let me conclude this thread for completeness.

1. From our discussions it appears that Mohammed wanted Muslims to read the Books that came before.

2. These Books were available at the time of Mohammed and are therefore available to us today in the Bible.

3. Mohammed obviously knew that the original Books were unavailable, but he had sufficient confidence in the copies to recommend their use.

The question that begs an answer is: Why would Mohammed ask his followers to read the Books which came before? The obvious answer is: in order to understand the Koran in its entirety.

As explained in a previous thread, Christians can never hope to understand certain concepts stated in the Gospels without reading the Old Testament Books sent to the Israelites where such concepts are fully explained. Similarly, Muslims can only speculate about certain concepts that are introduced in the Koran until they read the Books sent before which explains them.

It would appear that Muslim teachers have deliberately kept Muslims away from the Books that were sent before; perhaps for fear that they may convert to Judaism or Christianity? It should be noted that Christians do not read the Old Testament in order to convert to Judaism, and I am aware of no Christian that has ever converted to Judaism through reading the Israelite or Jewish scriptures.

Regards,
Grenville

If Mohammed was not himself educated by reading Torah and Gospel, then Arch Angel Gabriel would have admonished him only to WRITE! rather than to READ!!!

And surely if Islam can have kept accurately copies of Qur'an, then we at least also have Torah and Gospel from the time of Mohammed.

Then there is also the Roman slave born a Jew who is named Josephus, and who gives historical evidence of Isa's life, within the life times of those a witness to Isa.

And also those who call themselves Christian but are not believers, like to try to admonish Muslims by reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls. But within the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as being an old indeed copy of Torah, there is the empirical evidence of Shaytan among Jews who did act to corrupt what Jesus accomplished. The Dead Sea Scrolls give evidence that a Jew had attempted to use the Arc of Covenant to try to prove that Jesus could not possibly have intended that we must follow his example in death so in life. Islam has always heralded that the error was caused by a shaytan, and that it is able to be amended. It is quite miraculous that the dead sea scrolls survive and provided evidence of the fact of what had happened even during Jesus own life time as the shaytan effort to prevent him. I was shown the evidence from dead sea scrolls which shaytan try to use to discredit Jesus, by an active Rosicrucian and one of their lectures, (but that has been a very expensive process, to obtain such evidence of what had been preventing Isa before Islam corrected the sihr used against him). The Synagogue of Satan is not called that without reason, but the true believing Jews will surely all now become Muslim, because their way has been to wait until all of Shari'ah is truly within Arc of Covenant. Judaism is so strong a Religion and a real Jews belief in God so basic, that they simple can not shake what is in Arc of Covenant in any moment, and so can not be Muslim until Shari'ah is in Arc.

There are shaytan also who have been knowingly trying to prevent that such take place, by preventing that a witness is able to bear witness to the necessary burnt offerings, as Law for is written about in Torah. But conveniently, the AHadith alongside Qur'an are enough to be witness, so any Mujahideen might openly burn any copy of any part of Shari'ah, and watch to see how hot the fire becomes, so as to know if the full Law is in Arc of Covenant yet. It is enabled by a specific Law, which has part about mothers and children.

Can anybody find the full textual references for this thread?

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

If Mohammed was not himself educated by reading Torah and Gospel, then Arch Angel Gabriel would have admonished him only to WRITE! rather than to READ!!!

And surely if Islam can have kept accurately copies of Qur'an, then we at least also have Torah and Gospel from the time of Mohammed.

Then there is also the Roman slave born a Jew who is named Josephus, and who gives historical evidence of Isa's life, within the life times of those a witness to Isa.

And also those who call themselves Christian but are not believers, like to try to admonish Muslims by reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls. But within the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as being an old indeed copy of Torah, there is the empirical evidence of Shaytan among Jews who did act to corrupt what Jesus accomplished. The Dead Sea Scrolls give evidence that a Jew had attempted to use the Arc of Covenant to try to prove that Jesus could not possibly have intended that we must follow his example in death so in life. Islam has always heralded that the error was caused by a shaytan, and that it is able to be amended. It is quite miraculous that the dead sea scrolls survive and provided evidence of the fact of what had happened even during Jesus own life time as the shaytan effort to prevent him. I was shown the evidence from dead sea scrolls which shaytan try to use to discredit Jesus, by an active Rosicrucian and one of their lectures, (but that has been a very expensive process, to obtain such evidence of what had been preventing Isa before Islam corrected the sihr used against him). The Synagogue of Satan is not called that without reason, but the true believing Jews will surely all now become Muslim, because their way has been to wait until all of Shari'ah is truly within Arc of Covenant. Judaism is so strong a Religion and a real Jews belief in God so basic, that they simple can not shake what is in Arc of Covenant in any moment, and so can not be Muslim until Shari'ah is in Arc.

There are shaytan also who have been knowingly trying to prevent that such take place, by preventing that a witness is able to bear witness to the necessary burnt offerings, as Law for is written about in Torah. But conveniently, the AHadith alongside Qur'an are enough to be witness, so any Mujahideen might openly burn any copy of any part of Shari'ah, and watch to see how hot the fire becomes, so as to know if the full Law is in Arc of Covenant yet. It is enabled by a specific Law, which has part about mothers and children.

Can anybody find the full textual references for this thread?

wasalam

Now thinking more clearly it is that I am totally certain that where Islamic text refers to the fact that Muslims might not trust the earlier texts, it is a direct reference to the fact of the corruption placed into the Dead Sea Scrolls. As far as I can ascertain the Dead Sea Scrolls might well be relatively accurate in Torah, but not in Gospel.

 

[Balthasar21]

Now thinking more clearly it is that I am totally certain that where Islamic text refers to the fact that Muslims might not trust the earlier texts, it is a direct reference to the fact of the corruption placed into the Dead Sea Scrolls. As far as I can ascertain the Dead Sea Scrolls might well be relatively accurate in Torah, but not in Gospel.

The Bible / Torah Is A Copy Of The Dead Sea Scroll .

 

[Curaezipirid]

The Bible / Torah Is A Copy Of The Dead Sea Scroll .

Torah as in the first five chapters of the old testament as we have it in modern translations, is a copy of the same documents that a small portion of the dead sea scrolls are also a copy of.

But Gospel is not accurately transcribed in the dead sea scrolls.

In the dead sea scrolls it says that Jesus could not possibly have wanted us to follow him in death so as to follow him in life, but that is exactly what he requested of his disciples as the method of attaining everlasting life.

 

[Walter]

Hi Nocturne:

Since Mohammed appeared to have interacted with Jewish religious leaders and monks, we can reasonably assume that the entire Old testament was available to him as well as the new testament from either the Codex Vaticanus (300 AD), the Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), or the Codex Alexandrinus (450 AD).

The information within them can be confirmed with earlier manuscripts like the Nash Papyrus that contains the 10 commandments and was dated 2nd century BC, the Dead Sea Scrolls which contain around 25 books of the Old Testament and were dated 2nd century BC to 1st century AD, and the Papyrus Bodmer (p66) II which contains most of the Gospel of John and dated 125 AD.

The Bibles therefore contain sufficient reliable information to explain concepts that are simply introduced but not explained in the Qu’ran.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[Philosopher]

Since Mohammed appeared to have interacted with Jewish religious leaders and monks, we can reasonably assume that the entire Old testament was available to him as well as the new testament from either the Codex Vaticanus (300 AD), the Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), or the Codex Alexandrinus (450 AD).

The same can be said about Paul and Jesus. It's remarkable how Jesus is similar to Dionysis, Mithras, and Krishna.

The Bibles therefore contain sufficient reliable information to explain concepts that are simply introduced but not explained in the Qu’ran.

They would disagree with you

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

 

[doorster]

Recite!!!! as I would do when I was taught. Qari recited a verse, I followed thereafter.

Jibra'il recited, thereafter RasulAllah would follow.

No Read! but Recite

 

[Woodrow]

Do not be too hard on the Sister. Jibreel did admonish him to Read. It is true that Muhammad(PBUH) could not read but for some reason Jibreel was demanding that Muhammad(PBUH) READ






Shahi Bukhari.
Book 1. Revelation.


Volumn 001, Book 001, Hadith Number 003.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Aisha : (The mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read."

The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones."

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet "While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran):

'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly."

 

[Woodrow]

If Mohammed was not himself educated by reading Torah and Gospel, then Arch Angel Gabriel would have admonished him only to WRITE! rather than to READ!!!




Please read the Hadith I posted above. Although the Angel did admonish Muhammad(PBUH) to read, he could not read and told the Angel that he could not. So, Muhammad(PBUH) did not educate himself by reading the Torah and/or the Bible.

 

[doorster]

I am sorry but I can not soften my post above due to limitations of my account type so it is up to you to adjust it as you see fit.

I would, however, like to add that I do not have much (nearly zero) knowledge of hadiths in English. I really do believe that اقرأ means recite and قراءة means read

and I am also confused about instruction/order to read in absence of any written text being present at that moment like like tablets of Hazrat Musa Alaislam. and I am also confused about Hazrat Jibra'il Alaislam not knowing the fact that Hazrat Muhammad PBUH could not read.

I will consult with my father when I go to visit this weekend and get back to you on monday.

 

[Woodrow]

I am sorry but I can not soften my post above due to limitations of my account type so it is up to you to adjust it as you see fit.

I would, however, like to add that I do not have much (nearly zero) knowledge of hadiths in English. I really do believe that اقرأ means recite and قراءة means read

and I am also confused about instruction/order to read in absence of any written text being present at that moment like like tablets of Hazrat Musa Alaislam. and I am also confused about Hazrat Jibra'il Alaislam not knowing the fact that Hazrat Muhammad PBUH could not read.

I will consult with my father when I go to visit this weekend and get back to you on monday.

My Arabic is a little rusty but I believe قراءة means reading. and اقرأ means both read or Recite.

I do speak the Moroccan dialect to some extent and sometimes I do find some differences from other dialects.

What makes me believe that read is meant is because Muhammad(PBUH) answered "I do not know how to read." which would not make sense if the angel had told him to recite. And it would make even less sence if the reply was translated as ""I do not know how to recite." read is the only word that seems to makes sense in both places.

 

[doorster]

What is most shocking for me is, me being ignorant and not even knowing it, as I am only a Qari and did not learn Hadith knowlege at all, as I follow and practice whatever I am told by by my parent and never had cause to question them until today. I just go to work come home and spend any spare time on reciting. And that is my life.

 

[doorster]

forgot to say that Arabic is not my first language but 4th, know Just enough to get by and understand what is written but not enogh to talk to an Arab

 

[Woodrow]

forgot to say that Arabic is not my first language but 4th, know Just enough to get by and understand what is written but not enogh to talk to an Arab

N'cal B'el Arbeea wellakeen ma N'araf shee.

(I speak Arabic, but I don't understand it)

Many people do not read the Ahadith. I find that while The Qur'an tells me what Islam is, the Ahadith and Sunnah tells me how Muhammad(PBUH) followed it. although the Ahadith are not the word of Allah(swt) They are eyewitness reports of what Muhammad(PBUH) did and said. to obey the Ahadith is to live as Muhammad(PBUH) did.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Since Mohammed appeared to have interacted with Jewish religious leaders and monks, we can reasonably assume that the entire Old testament was available to him as well as the new testament from either the Codex Vaticanus (300 AD), the Codex Sinaiticus (350 AD), or the Codex Alexandrinus (450 AD).

i think that's why Allah last appointed messenger is illiterate, to prevent allegation, assumption.

I would, however, like to add that I do not have much (nearly zero) knowledge of hadiths in English. I really do believe that اقرأ means recite and قراءة means read

Qara'a means read, Iqra' means read to but it's fiil amr.
my english is rusty, isn't read and recite is just the same?